Sounds like someone took a whopping from a random MK. Someone who notably can't DI.If Brawl was the Special Olympics, Meta Knight would be Usain Bolt popping out of no where and running the race at full pace like “yeah, I’m the sh**z” and not realizing that he doesn’t belong there.
There's this implication that all Brawl characters are evenly balanced in terms of strengths and weaknesses and Meta Knight's very existence in the game is debunks that completely. Rather than go into a pointless rant where I tear him apart like the toilet after Taco night, I'll just point out the rudimentary things. Basic as they may seem, they're enough to place him in the category of demi-god.
1) His dash grab is ridiculous. I can't even explain it fully. There's very little lag after a miss. "But he wasn't even near me!" Well, that's too bad. He grabbed you.
MK has good dash grab range and a fast dash. Quite a few other characters have good dash grabs as well. It's normal.
2) In some cases, in order to just escape his furious sword spinning attack, the only way to break out is DIing. You can trap someone in that little chasm of pain if they have no clue how to move away from it. And the saddest part is that it racks up ridiculous amounts of damage fast and all the Meta Knight user needs to do is press and hold A.
Any multi-hit move should be DI'ed out of. MK's Jab can be easily DI'ed out of. It's also punishable. It doesn't even deal much damage.
3) Regarding number 2, his hitframes are insanium in the cranium. What makes me say that? A Jigglypuff user has a little to no possibility of even scraping Meta Knight. You might think that doesn't say much but a skilled Jigglypuff can take down several characters. Or at least TOUCH THEM. But no. Meta Knight has a basically impenetrable wall that Jigglypuff can't even touch. Nonetheless, this applies to almost any character without a projectile. Meta Knight will **** them.
Granted he has a invincible disjointed hitbox. It's natural that characters like Jiggs would suffer against him, just like she does with say, Marth.
MK doesn't **** everyone without a projectile. It has nothing to do with with/without projectiles. Mario has his Fireballs but you don't see him doing too well against MK, whereas DK is only at a slight disadvantage. Quite often, it's about range. Yes, MK does have good range. That's not to say all his move have the absolute best range. One example would be Marth's F-Air outranging MK's.
Of course, Marth is still at a disadvantage.
4) Again, about the stupid attacks. They rack up way too much damage way too fast. Sure, each hit does only minor damage but remember that he attacks so fast you can't even see it on the screen. Literally. Just pause the game. In that one pause frame, he's using three attacks all together.
That's ridiculous.
5) He can spike. This wouldn't be such a problem to me if they didn't make Marth's spike so hard to use in Brawl but I still have to comment on Meta Knight's spikes and pseudo spikes. Not only that but you have to realize that just by using Up B, you can send opponent(s) flying. MUCH more deadly than Marth's Up B.
MK can't spike. His Up-B sends inexperienced people at bad angles but you'll rarely get gimped by it with proper DI. It's good but it's by far one of his most overrated moves.
Marth's Up-B is good. It's really good.
6) He has a disappearing move. DO I NEED TO REALLY ELABORATE ON THIS ONE?
It's banned when used for stalling. The regular Down-B isn't anything special either.
7) All his B (Special) moves ares recovery moves. Add that to the fact that he can jump five times. I can go on forever on these major issues with the character but I won't. I do it for the sake of civility.
This is Brawl. Everyone except Link recovers.
As I said, I wouldn't go on an excessively angry rant but here goes one complaint I can't sugarcoat:
8) The stupid tornado. I hate this moves. No. I abhor it. It's a **** mess. I can't believe they would give an already broken character such an incredibly lousy move. I'm not say 'lousy' as in weak. I mean 'lousy' as in 'it will frustrate anyone who has to deal with it'. I find that Meta Knight's hit frames minimize as much as they can when he's using this. It covers incredibly amounts of range. It can completely devastate a character by trapping him/her in the buttraping cyclone. Since there is maneuverability involved with the attack and little to no knockback until the final hit (which is like a nanosecond fast), it is virtually un-DIable. But my biggest gripe? The attack can kill you easily using it excessively.
It's very DI-able. Correct DI allows a lot of characters to escape it taking very little % and landing say, a D-Air on top of MK in the process. Unless you're playing Dedede and the like, you actually have good tools to get out of the move. Add in the fact that each character has at least one move that beats out the Tornado and you'll find that it's not particularly that devastating in high levels of play.
So my verdict?
We shouldn't ban Meta Knight. No, I think it's fine to use him. Sure he’s literally a smack in the face to everyone else trying to play a fair game but go ahead. Just don't lose.
Never lose under any circumstance.
And don't say "Oh, that bob-bomb came out of no where and blew me up".
No. You don't get an excuse.
None.
It’s like me giving you an Uzi in a knife fight. You just can't lose. If you lose, you we lose all respect for you.
What about Snake?
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Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Sounds like someone took a whopping from a random MK. Someone who notably can't DI.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You're using infinity in the wrong way. Fix it before I crack your head open with a grammar hammer.
guess what, the D3 infinite works on ONLY 6 characters. Not ban worthy.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Oh yes I forgot about that, I would like if people could figure out the pummel thing rather than "mash the buttons!"
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Well, Magus has a particularly effective method. Each knot on the control stick (for a total of 8) counts as an input, while each button also counts as an input.
So he spins the control stick while rolling his finger over A,B,X,and Y, while also pressing the Z and L buttons with his thumbs (Z instead of R because it's faster). I'd imagine that if you clawed it would be even more effective, since the c-stick counts too (I think you have to let the c-stick reset to neutral though, but it's still a couple extra button presses).
Ideally, you'd spin the control stick, tap the c-stick back and forth, press L repeatedly, roll your index finger over A, B, X, and Y, Press Z repeatedly with your middle finger, and press R repeatedly with your ring finger.
Sure it might take some setting up, but we're talking about breaking an infinite here.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
If it's humanly possible, people will learn how to do it.Well, Magus has a particularly effective method. Each knot on the control stick (for a total of 8) counts as an input, while each button also counts as an input.
So he spins the control stick while rolling his finger over A,B,X,and Y, while also pressing the Z and L buttons with his thumbs (Z instead of R because it's faster). I'd imagine that if you clawed it would be even more effective, since the c-stick counts too (I think you have to let the c-stick reset to neutral though, but it's still a couple extra button presses).
Ideally, you'd spin the control stick, tap the c-stick back and forth, press L repeatedly, roll your index finger over A, B, X, and Y, Press Z repeatedly with your middle finger, and press R repeatedly with your ring finger.
Sure it might take some setting up, but we're talking about breaking an infinite here.
All the mains of all the affected characters, DO IT!
For those that DDD has to pummel, it destroys the infinite until percents that it doesn't matter.
For DK and Bowser, it punishes mistakes very badly, it has to be done perfectly now, otherwise it fails.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Yet another strong anti ban case. You are no longer saving 5 characters, but now only 2, since the other 3 have a means to escape it (and if they don't do it then they are lazy).
Yeah, go metagame advancement. I dub this the AGBM (advanced grab-break mashing)!
How cool would it be if that name stuck?!
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Only 2 and the affected two, it has to be done perfectly otherwise it can be escaped.Yet another strong anti ban case. You are no longer saving 5 characters, but now only 2, since the other 3 have a means to escape it (and if they don't do it then they are lazy).
Yeah, go metagame advancement. I dub this the AGBM (advanced grab-break mashing)!
How cool would it be if that name stuck?!
Very cool btw.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Yeah, even assuming that you only do the cycle once (people would obviously be able to do more than that) it's still 17 inputs per second if you manage to do everything.
Now...we need a video to show it. But I can't record anything.
Now...we need a video to show it. But I can't record anything.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Same issue here Dark.
=(
Someone buy a capture card!
=(
Someone buy a capture card!
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
Bento I absolutely LOVE your sig, Jet Set Radio is the best ever!
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
I noticed this quite a long time ago. I'm not going to name anyone, but some people just argue here for the sake of arguing, not even bothering with making much sense in the process either. If it weren't for the fact that without topics like this, we'd have hordes more "Meta Should be Banned!" topics cluttering up the forums, then we could just close this topic and move on. Instead, we have to leave it open, which in turns leaves it as practically a dumping ground for Post increasing like the Character forum Chat Topics.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Grrrrrrrrrr................. 1 day M2K.......... U will understand and respect the character known as Sonic the Hedgehog
Delvro
Smash Ace
Especially since the mashing thing has been discussed like... what... 50 pages back or something? When Magus showed the Wario video~
Davy Jones
Smash Ace
I vote NO!
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Except everyone ignored it and said "well, it could've been the slopes on Yoshi's Island that made him break out," not actually looking into it at all.
I'm perfectly aware that he discussed it first. In fact I'm quoting him!
I'm bringing it up again because I don't believe the last "refutation" was sufficient and I'm bringing a video where Reflex did it yet again (he actually does this a lot) on a stage where there's basically nothing to refute. It's flat, it's completely stationary, he's not hanging over the edge of anything, the stage is not changing, and you can actually hear him mashing the buttons (it was not recorded on a capture card).
In the very unlikely event that my silly name sticks, I'd like to get credit to Magus for explaining the ideal button mashing setup. If someone else did this first, I'm sorry but I didn't know so I can't give you credit.
Magus420
Smash Master
I wouldn't really call it the ideal button mashing setup, but it's just what I happen to do and I'm known for being able to escape grabs very quickly.
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
DON'T Ban MK, if this guy named hrnut input helps any, afro m2k, and most of Florida feel that way, many other top players Azen, DSF, etc.
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
What do you do, I hate losing to D3 because of his grab.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
wow alot of ppl seem to be in favor of banning him
Dynomite
Smash Champion
i smell a money match :DGrrrrrrrrrr................. 1 day M2K.......... U will understand and respect the character known as Sonic the Hedgehog
PB&J
Smash Hero
there are some good sonics up here in ny like malcom and wes..to me sonic is coming up as a character...with that being said banning metaknight is a horrible idea..the game is still new and recently it looks like more and more people are figuring how to fight this character...banning mk is stupid..people just need to figure out character match ups in this game they need to go to more tournies in state and out of state..it helps alot, one other thing is that the reason y most of us melee players don't like the brawl community are threads like these and banning good stages and characters..how about banning some chaingrabs from ddd and icy's and zss armor when she starts(have her throw them off the stage) trust me its broken..but the brawl community is to quick to bann this and do this learn the game...when the game first came out, everybody thought that toon link was the best character , then snake, now mk,learn the game more(character match ups) and u will see that mk isn't as hard as u think..and i just started playing brawl again because i see the game has progressed up here in the tri state area..peaceGrrrrrrrrrr................. 1 day M2K.......... U will understand and respect the character known as Sonic the Hedgehog
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
M2k lets MM my snake vs your MK?? then my Olimar vs your D3 only on Final?? 5 dollars each?? Then my sonic vs your MK?
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
Probably one of the best lines in this whole thread
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Spin the control stick (8 inputs) Roll your thumb over B, A, X, and Y (4 inputs), press L and Z (2 inputs) for a total of 14 inputs without requiring you to change your hand setup at all.
Basically, just do that as many times as you can.
PB&J
Smash Hero
at least someone agrees
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
WHAT, that many button inputs, thats some crazy button mashing
B_AWAL
Smash Master
I couldn't have said this better!!!
LMAO!!!!
I got dibbs on the MM My Sonic vs M2K's MK!!! (20 dollars)
But me and U shud have a C. Fal MM???(5 bucks? ^_^) U'd own in a Marth MM(so we can have a friendly)
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
What? It doesn't seem that hard. If you've played piano...at all you'd be able to do this without even practicing at all.
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
Lets do it Capt Falcon Ditto, YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!I couldn't have said this better!!!
LMAO!!!!
I got dibbs on the MM My Sonic vs M2K's MK!!! (20 dollars)
But me and U shud have a C. Fal MM???(5 bucks? ^_^) U'd own in a Marth MM(so we can have a friendly)
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
I kinda have played piano, not professionally but i don't rotate anything while playing piano, i wish i could do that and we should find a glitch that would instantely K.O. D3What? It doesn't seem that hard. If you've played piano...at all you'd be able to do this without even practicing at all.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
So whats the significance of this in all seriousness? Cuz If I do this and it does nothing important for me I'm gonna feel like a complete idiot and I'm gonna blame this on U Dark Sonic!Except everyone ignored it and said "well, it could've been the slopes on Yoshi's Island that made him break out," not actually looking into it at all.
I'm perfectly aware that he discussed it first. In fact I'm quoting him!
I'm bringing it up again because I don't believe the last "refutation" was sufficient and I'm bringing a video where Reflex did it yet again (he actually does this a lot) on a stage where there's basically nothing to refute. It's flat, it's completely stationary, he's not hanging over the edge of anything, the stage is not changing, and you can actually hear him mashing the buttons (it was not recorded on a capture card).
In the very unlikely event that my silly name sticks, I'd like to get credit to Magus for explaining the ideal button mashing setup. If someone else did this first, I'm sorry but I didn't know so I can't give you credit.
And I will haunt every post U make like a dead Siamese twin attached to U for Ur own survival....
Wizard Of Seraphym
Smash Cadet
besides his immunity to gimping, i see no real reason to ban MK...
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
It is a much much faster button mashing method, and will allow you to break out of any grab if your opponent even tries to pummel you once. And since the infinites on Mario, Luigi, and Samus require DDD to pummel in between throw to get around the stale move effect, it essentially nullifies the infinite.So whats the significance of this in all seriousness? Cuz If I do this and it does nothing important for me I'm gonna feel like a complete idiot and I'm gonna blame this on U Dark Sonic!
And I will haunt every post U make like a dead Siamese twin attached to U for Ur own survival....
Breaking out of grabs is based on the number of inputs that you put in. Every button on the controller, as well as every notch on the controller and c-stick, count as inputs (the c-stick must be reset to neutral in between inputs though). People often mash A, B, X, and Y when trying to get out of grabs, but they are completely forgetting that they do have other fingers at their disposal, and that the default controller position allows you to get another 10 inputs more than tripling your button mashing speed.
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
He's not immune to gimping at all lol, i've ***** mk's with snake's Fair, ask Afro about that MM lol he goes for a shuttle loop i Fair, Fair Wins MK gimped lol
B_AWAL
Smash Master
MK is not as scary as people make him seem... It's not like ANY1 can randomly pick up MK and win a tourney.
And thanx for the info Dark :-)
And thanx for the info Dark :-)
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
- Status