D
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Just so you know, you can refer to my rule list like many tournaments are already doing and avoid this crap altogether.
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Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
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Le_THieN
Smash Lord
It depends on who I'm having to face off against. I faced Mr. 3000's Sonic in the second round of brackets at OH SNAP! v4.0 this past weekend, and we ended up playing on Final Destination twice during the three-match set. I had only heard of 3K's legendary Sonic and, up until that point, I had absolutely zero experience in that particular match-up. To my surprise, 3K ended up not banning Final Destination during the stage striking process, and he took me to Final Destination after I took away the first match on...I want to say Smashville. *scratches head* Anyway, he walked away with the second match in a perilously tense fight.
I had led him the entire second match up until our last stock, and he just ran around doing weird, Spin Dash-canceling things that I had never seen before until he finally got me over 110% and nailed me with a solid B-air to the head. I meditated on a counter-pick stage for a few brief moments before I decided to take him back to Final Destination and finally close the set in my favor.
This occurred again during my first set with Melee1's Ice Climbers in Winner's Quarterfinals. I hadn't played him since July (my first encounter with what who was and is supposed to be the nation's top Ice Climbers main), so I had my *** handed to me for two straight stocks before I got acclimated to the Ice Climbers' surprising amount of priority. I closed in on Melee1 during our last stocks, and then he caught me by punishing my ditch-effort spike attempt to take the match.
Afterward, I also took him back to Final Destination, readjusted my approach, and two-stocked him. I lost to his Meta Knight on Rainbow Cruise in the third match.
The main reason I took both Mr. 3000 and Melee1 back to Final Destination immediately after I had lost on the stage in both instances was because I had made several observations throughout those respective matches and noted what worked and what did not work for me in two particular match-ups that I have little to no experience in. I was pretty confident in all of my halftime adjustments (so to speak) in both cases, and since Final Destination wasn't banned, it was generally just a safe decision to move the action back to that stage with my new knowledge of the match-ups.
As far as other match-ups go, I actually do prefer to take most people to Battlefield as opposed to Final Destination. I've studied the Meta Knight match-up in and out for the last several months; ironically enough, the fruit of my labor wasn't reaped on Final Destination, but instead Battlefield. At HOBO 11 several weeks ago, I not only finally extracted revenge against Infinity (one of Texas' best Meta Knight players) by beating him in tournament, but I two-stocked him in one of our pools matches on Battlefield. During the last tournament I played at in Texas a month ago, I actually struck Final Destination from the neutral list on three different occasions (against Bwett's Falco & Yoshi, some random guy's Marth, and d4bA's Meta Knight & Snake). I won every single time I took them to Battlefield. During OH SNAP! v4.0, I faced d4bA in tournament again, took him to Battlefield and beat him.
For the sake of supplying some mild form of evidence for all the haters out there, you can find that particular match here.
If you're really interested in why I love Battlefield so much and why I think the popular "Diddy + banana peels + spam + Final Destination = Meta Knight counter" is complete bull****, feel free to post a query about it in the Diddy Forums.
Long Live Battlefield.
I heavily considered revising the stage list with your recommendations for this past weekend, but opted not to piss off a bunch of people. =) OH SNAP! v5.0 is a few months away, so we'll see how the SBR Recommended Rule Set fluctuates until then.
NinjaLink
Smash Master
actually Le_Thein contributed alot to the diddy forums. Cant discredit him. Whats with ppl discrediting others for their newfound ability or placings. It doesnt make sense.
just like him. i so rarely ever see FD regardless of me pickin diddy or not.
just like him. i so rarely ever see FD regardless of me pickin diddy or not.
slikvik
Smash Master
he's easily one of the best snakes in the countryThere's a difference between "nado spam" and effectively using a really good move. Nado spam will get you *****, whereas using tornado at the right times when it isn't really punishable is very good. I used it too much at times and got ***** for it.
zaf
Smash Lord
zaf
Smash Lord
u.s.a has come to us.
He has 3 stocked NOJ ( needle of juntah)
he has beaten sliq,
he has beaten judegemeow
he has beaten yes!
his brother holynightmare has beaten lain.
besides that, he has destroyed the top players in canada
if this isnt enough, then your a ******
zaf
Smash Lord
no problem
You never see any other snake doing the things ally does.
Which is why no one can beat him right now.
He's impossible to read.
I know m2k is good, but i don't see anything special when i watch him play mk.
He spaces well and capitalizes on mistakes.
Exactly what he has done in melee.
Let's see another snake use the box taunt to kill people like ally has started.
Radiation
Smash Apprentice
uhhhh, no, what? I don't doubt how awesome Ally is, but for him to prove that he's taken Snake to the level that M2K has with Meta, then he has to beat M2K or someone of equal power level (or at least a greater variety of awesome players). Sliq is a great player but the Snake vs. Bowser matchup is not the Snake vs. Meta matchup and hence the fight can't really prove anything.
"top players in canada" is kind of meaningless if you don't explain who or what
"top players in canada" is kind of meaningless if you don't explain who or what
zaf
Smash Lord
top players in canada
holynightmare
ambrose
JL
Percon
Kingace
the last 4 competed at critical hit 4, and kingace placed 5th taking out chu dat.
when they all play ally, they all lose.
ambrose told me himself that he is too hard to read
and ambrose placed 2nd in this past weekend's tourney.
3rd was lain.
Master Raven
Smash Master
zaf
Smash Lord
I'm not meat riding anyone.
I once too doubted Ally.
But once he came to a Montreal Tournament and destroyed everyone, I then saw that I
misjudged him.
When I play the Ontario people, ( which is very rare) I do really good. I always bring it to the last stock when I lose against them. But when I play ally, which is very often since he lives near me, i still get destroyed despite how much i play him. Yes i have beaten him, but I highly doubt I would beat him in a set.
I'm just tired of people trash talking him, when they undoubtedly would get destroyed by him. His last two tournaments he did play top level USA players and beat them all.
slikvik
Smash Master
Ulevo
Smash Master
I do not believe it is Canada's best interest to potentially over exaggerate Ally. However, that being said, I honestly do not believe there is a single player in the USA aside from M2K that could contend with or beat Ally consistently. He is simply that good. KingAce beat Forte, and placed very well at CH4. He can't even touch Ally. We've all seen him play here, we all know how good he is-- we just all do not know how good he is in comparison. I once had serious doubts about him myself, after learning the source of his hype was nothing more than online play, a few videos and beating Percon or KingAce on an occasion or two. That completely changed when I met, witnessed, and fought him myself.
I do not believe he is better than M2K personally, but I'm not riding on much to go by other than my experiences with Ally and what I see and hear of M2K. But I have no doubts that he could easily contend with the best players in the states, and most likely win.
It is all speculation. You know how we solve this? We get those two to meet.
I do not believe he is better than M2K personally, but I'm not riding on much to go by other than my experiences with Ally and what I see and hear of M2K. But I have no doubts that he could easily contend with the best players in the states, and most likely win.
It is all speculation. You know how we solve this? We get those two to meet.
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
This thread is stupid because there is a vote. It's TOO EARLY!!
NinjaLink
Smash Master
By u sayin no other player than m2k ur basically ****ting on the entire community in the USA. I suggest U reword that otherwise, ur gonna have problems.I do not believe it is Canada's best interest to potentially over exaggerate Ally. However, that being said, I honestly do not believe there is a single player in the USA aside from M2K that could contend with or beat Ally consistently. He is simply that good. KingAce beat Forte, and placed very well at CH4. He can't even touch Ally. We've all seen him play here, we all know how good he is-- we just all do not know how good he is in comparison. I once had serious doubts about him myself, after learning the source of his hype was nothing more than online play, a few videos and beating Percon or KingAce on an occasion or two. That completely changed when I met, witnessed, and fought him myself.
I do not believe he is better than M2K personally, but I'm not riding on much to go by other than my experiences with Ally and what I see and hear of M2K. But I have no doubts that he could easily contend with the best players in the states, and most likely win.
It is all speculation. You know how we solve this? We get those two to meet.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Ahah, you guys are funny. You make many mistakes : You reduce top US players to M2K; you think that the best American players are instantly the best in the world, without even considering Japan and Europe 
You make many mistakes : You reduce top US players to M2K; you think that the best American players are instantly the best in the world, without even considering Japan and Europe 
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Psst. Dominican Republic's where its at! Lolzies. I don't even know if anyone there knows how to shorthop =/, except for me when I visit XD.
Also, I don't think Ulevo meant that arrogantly or anything at all. He even said Canada shouldn't exagerate the power of Ally. Its more of an assessment as a player rather than by his nationality. But perhaps some rewording is in order.
So yea, we need Ally Vs. M2K. We should have like, a brawl olympics ^_^
Also, I don't think Ulevo meant that arrogantly or anything at all. He even said Canada shouldn't exagerate the power of Ally. Its more of an assessment as a player rather than by his nationality. But perhaps some rewording is in order.
So yea, we need Ally Vs. M2K. We should have like, a brawl olympics ^_^
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I explained previously how certain negatives can require positives, you need to distill the question down to it's core elements, and by core elements I mean something that can be proven or disproven by actual observence of facts.
While the positive side overall always has the burden of proof, on the level of certain individual facts the overall negative side might have the burden of proof.
In the case that you are pointing out, the actual facts in dispute are the match-ups themselves because they can be "proven" using character attributes, and the burden of proof lies with proving "not neutral".
The overall burden of proof is on the pro-ban side. However, for the individual match-up the burden of proof is on anything other then "not neutral".
So really it depends on how far people wish to take it.
Regardless, if "in paper" and "in reality" don't match up, get better paper.
Yay for over-simplifacation... it was considerably more then 1 pixel and 1 frame. In terms of frames, it was enough to have a 7 frame+ advantage. That's more then enough for reaction. Range differentials were also FAR more then a pixel.
QFT, Azen definately needs a mention at the very least.Ahah, you guys are funny.
Internationally, granted he specified US, but that said, there's the unspoken "US is best assumption".
The only way to solve this... INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS!
Daimonster
Smash Journeyman
After OhSnap (and the collection of tournaments attended), I wish to change my vote from yes to no. Been on the edge of pro-ban (because of the CP system) and anti-ban (due to the many 6-4 matchups he has). In conclusion, he has the overall expected win...but the edge is very close and so miniscule. If the edge of using MK was heavy and game determining...then I would be pro-ban. However, it is not and sadly enough...the game is young.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Wait, KINGACE is a top player somewhere?
Oh I know he gets **** done, but that's because he's simply a good player, in my opinion. It pains me that he fails to take advantage of snake's stage control tools, at least from what I've seen. He's definitely not pushing the character at its full potential.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
It ***** Bum, too. Watch the vids.
I'm going to beat you with Snake. Let's go, nub.Mew2King said:
I'm pretty confident I'd contend with Ally and could win. I'm also very sure that any top American player that knows how to fight Snake will do just fine.Ulevo said:
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
meatknight should be banned.
Metaknight should not be banned.
Metaknight should not be banned.
He was the top Eastern Canada player before Ally showed up.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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Personally, I like Ally's playstyle. It's a style quite similar to how I play Link in a way of mindgaming/manipulating projectiles and moves to integrate together and cause more combo potential, while still using them for stage control to scare the opponents to do an aggressive approach.
However, that relies pretty heavily on mindgaming and a large understanding of the moveset. I wouldn't be so sure if this would go well against people who knew about his playstyle.
However, that relies pretty heavily on mindgaming and a large understanding of the moveset. I wouldn't be so sure if this would go well against people who knew about his playstyle.
Thirtyfour
Smash Journeyman
If MK was banned who would Falcon challenge every so often?
If MK is banned you'd have to ban MK kirby too.
And in all seriousness.
Ban rainbow Cruise.
Im tired of wasting my Ban on that stage when its not VS a MK.
If MK is banned you'd have to ban MK kirby too.
And in all seriousness.
Ban rainbow Cruise.
Im tired of wasting my Ban on that stage when its not VS a MK.
Not enough logic.
He has variety though lol.
It's like, if you get past one of his traps, he'll go and distract you with another trick, and you're trapped again :[
almost like fighting Sonic in Snake/Falcon form
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
even if diddy 'counters' mk, that means mk shouldn't be banned? just a thought bras
Ulevo
Smash Master
I already stated my opinion is speculation, and merely that. I am not disrespecting anyone, I am acknowledging Ally for how good he is at this game. I apologize if my post came off offensively, that really isn't my intention.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
MK should not be banned. A banned character is a character that is broken beyond belief and its near hopeless for all other characters to even come close to standing a chance. MK has some matchups which are pretty even and he is better than most characters but he is definately beatable. Hes good and definately the best in the game right now but this could change over time.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
Exactly bra, it's a bit too early all day.
Oh, but why must it fall under those to be ban-worthy?
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
...I'm going to go laugh really ****ing hard now, excuse me.
gantrain05
Smash Master
no kidding, as long as the game becomes more competitive thats enough reason for me to want him banned.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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There's a difference between making the game more competitive and making this game worthless to play as. If Metaknight is not bannable after all, you'll just end up making the people who main him pissed off, which is rather worthless.
You have to be careful when banning stuff. Right now I'll just throw out the usual anti-john and just say get better.
You have to be careful when banning stuff. Right now I'll just throw out the usual anti-john and just say get better.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i don't think that "pissing off MK mains" is a reason to not ban him.
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