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Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread
- Thread starter -Cross-
- Start date
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
^That's true, learned all the dumb stuff kirby can do to sheik playing t1mmy, then tried to avoid it as much as possible basically. I won't say that the MU is truly not bad, but from my experiences, I do okay w/ it. I feel one thing Marth totally trounces Kirby in the MU is juggling, for example. True, what landing traps kirby can do to sheik are more painful (especially strutterstep fsmash, yikes), but I feel Marth is more capable of juggling sheik damagewise and is more consistent (think you've got his FF uair -> utilt covered? Looks like he's gonna throw in a nair or sideB to get you offstage again). But it also could very well be me not knowing the Marth MU enough, it might be much better playing it more consistently.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Ibe said it before, am saying it now and will proceed to say it in the future
Marth is broken, overpowered and overall a really stupid character
Marth is broken, overpowered and overall a really stupid character
marth really isn't... or at least he shouldn't be.
whats troubling you with the match up?
whats troubling you with the match up?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
The fact that he's broken, overpowered, and in all ways completely BS.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
MK is more BS. Falcos jab is more BS just sayin.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I won't disagree with you there lol.
Marth just gets more hate because people let him get away with it.
Marth just gets more hate because people let him get away with it.
22
what exactly is he doing that is troubling you? Ed and I know the match up we may be able to help you out.
what exactly is he doing that is troubling you? Ed and I know the match up we may be able to help you out.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
It's been over a year since I've played a good Marth, and he double 2 stocked me. Idk why i hate the MU anymore... I just know that I do.
Don't worry next time I lose I'll be sure to rage and repost everything broken about Marth.
Don't worry next time I lose I'll be sure to rage and repost everything broken about Marth.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I mentioned vids before, but they're now up on my channel. I'll put the links in when I get home from work.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Blah blah double post.
These are uploaded by sets.
vs Keister 1 (DDD)
vs Keister 2 (DDD)
vs Katon (Luigi/Pit)
vs Thulius 1 (Lucario)
vs Thulius 2 (Lucario)
These are uploaded by sets.
vs Keister 1 (DDD)
vs Keister 2 (DDD)
vs Katon (Luigi/Pit)
vs Thulius 1 (Lucario)
vs Thulius 2 (Lucario)
clowsui
Smash Legend
watched a little of you vs kiest, i don't understand your decision making sometimes (i.e. why run away vs ddd up close when your frame data destroys his and he's not really looking to block?) + i think you still lack adequate control over sheik =/
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Funnily enough Chi, I agree(d) with you. Those were from about a month ago (and I guess further John's would be me playing really twitchy and not calm, but that's bs) and since then, I've spent time out of every couple of days or so just messing around in training before Weds where I play vs Thulius, Q, Keist, Frenchman and co to apply what I've practiced.
There are stretches during matches and sets where I go: "Let me push this I'm gonna ****" and then blow it. Most notably the last match if my last tourney where I played Suyon on PS1.
TL;dr: You're right. (and doing what you've more or less saying for a month has worked better).
There are stretches during matches and sets where I go: "Let me push this I'm gonna ****" and then blow it. Most notably the last match if my last tourney where I played Suyon on PS1.
TL;dr: You're right. (and doing what you've more or less saying for a month has worked better).
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Um I tried to watch them but there roughly 40 minutes of friendlies, if you could pick like 2-3 games (and post the times that they start) from each of those sets it would benefit me greatly.
Just a quick vid for tonight. I got a little dsmash happy, which killed me lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXwG1DYbamY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXwG1DYbamY
stealth3654
Smash Lord
When you're juggling olimar, the safest way to do it is to punish his landing with a grab. Just run up, shield, then grab him. Also, you can mix things up by running up, shield, then aerial OOS. Just watch out for that whistle or nair to up smash. Be careful on your use of fsmash, although I think the last one you did was an accident. Also, you could do a little bit better of a job at gimping olimar. It should be pretty easy to tell if he's going for the ghost platforms. Just wait for him to use his up B, then immediately jump off and hit him away. One thing I like to do against olimars that are grab happy is to run towards him. If I see him about to grab or pivot grab, i'll SH over his grab and hit him with whatever I want.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Done and ****.
I'm not really that happy in general from the Katon set, but I kinda did cool stuff vs his Luigi game one. Note: Nearly every fsmash in these sets is unintentional.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
ah tyvm that should help me considerably.
Sometime today I shall watch these.
Sometime today I shall watch these.
what were you trying to do instead of the fsmashes?
Probably trying to fsmash.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Vs that DDD, trying to run off the ledge and fair. some of the others were ftilts that were tapped too hard and etc.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I am too, tbqh. I played very jumpy a month ago when these were recorded.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
5:30-6:05: I felt like you were playing too passively, you weren't really throwing, or charging needles, just kind of standing around doing nothing... until you chose to jump onto the top platform;(were you trying to get the super read on a waddle dee toss? idk that move is really slow, plenty of time to shield it.) that was a horrible decision, Sheik doesn't really have strong landing options, ESP vs D3 who has that 10KM grab range and of all places you decided to put yourself above him, all he had to do was walk underneath the platform and shield... he got 60% off of you from that. (I'm including the damage you took trying to get up off the ledge because had you not jumped on that platform you wouldn't have ended up on the ledge in the first place). one thing you can do in that situation when they aren't super close to the ledge is do the jumping get up in order for them to chase you into the ledge, then DI back into recovery chain range, chain to the ledge and roll up.
6:05-6:20: When D3 bairs your shield, either try to grab his foot, aerial OoS, or maybe try and f-tilt, Shield drop jab isn't going to cut it in that situation lol. Also when getting D-thrown by D3, if you aren't a chaingrabbable character teching in place is a horrible option, it literally lets him CG you. if you tech away he cant punish it without reading it prior, so that's generally the safest option. You can also try waiting a bit then rolling behind him if he starts to move towards you. But yeah teching in place is bad.
6:20-6:38: You actually played this portion pretty well, until you got your f-tilt off, running upsmash is not a safe followup to f-tilt, granted you did hit with the second part, but only because he dropped his shield prematurely to try and grab or something. if you have to dash then Shield dash grab his landing, although you probably could have walked a little forward and caught him out of his air dodge with f or u-tilt. also you messed up your punish on that D-tilt you shielded, I personally would not have expected a second one either, but i also don't think i would have gotten hit by it, from the distance you were at + it not being a power shield I would have either shield dashed or rolled away. unfortunately he just didn't fall into your immediate punish zone from that position. Sheik has a hard time getting up off the ledge, but that was a definite read by Keist. Getting read happens, had you waited a little longer to see if he would take immediate action may have saved your life, but like i said getting off of the ledge sucks. You most likely were going to die there lol.
6:40-7:00: after you got the bair wall bounce (technically it was a stage spike but since he didn't really go down I'll just call it a bounce) you should have double jumped back onto the stage instead of throwing out a fair that couldn't hit, even after you miss the fair had you used chain to recover there instead of vanish you would have made then it back on the ledge in time to punish his recovery, as a result of getting stuck on the ledge with vanish (intentional or not) you got hit by a star then forced off of the stage. Nice job getting back on... but that's dangerous territory to be in.
700-7-30: You kept trying to punish his recovery and get ups with dash attack. I'll break that down a bit more, you were trying to landing trap a character with 5 mid air jumps with a move that if missed leaves you vulnerable for like 10 years. And you also used that same move to try and punish his get ups... get ups have invincibility frames, meaning there is a definite chance of missing the punish, so why take that gamble with a move that if you miss gives the opponent enough time to put the controller down, take a few laps around the room, sit back down, wipe off the sweat, pick the controller back up, and then think about how to punish, and then punish you. your tilts are much better at landing, and landing a tilt leads into a lot more than landing a dash attack, and missing a tilt has a much smaller window that you can be punished in. All in all there is pretty much never a reason to use dash attack unless you have no other means of reaching them... and even then a half way charged needles is probably safer and more worthwhile. Any way those dash attack cost you like 50ish damage... fresh u-tilt kills around 85 on this stage. you probably should have died but it looks like kiest messed up an input and landed with dair instead of bair, and seeing as you didn't shield at all its obvious the bair would have hit you at a horrible angle and he would have had an easy edgeguard against you. Oh well he did miss, then some stuff happened and you got a kill. Good job.
7:30-8:10: I saw you start up a vanish while he was sill invincible... lmao. Then you tried to f-tilt lock him starting at 0%, learn f-tilt percents F-tilt doesnt safely combo into itself until around 20-30% for a general rule of thumb, (You could have however, u-tilted, grabbed, or d-smashed, if you had wanted to be fancy you could have done f-tilt jab 1 jab2, then f-tilt/grab... but f-tilt x4 wasn't going to work... and it didn't work) That right there lead to you off the stage getting destroyed as you tried to get back on. then after you got back on you failed a punish on a missed Dedede dash attack( a bette rpunish would have been instead of just walking back and forth and then dash attacking to just run and grab him, teched his dthrow in place again, got out, and jumped back onto a platform. and Died. that entire series of events I've already explained in different sections of this critique about why they are bad, so if you aren't sure go re-read the post.
8:12-9:10: First you did absolutely nothing with your invincibility frames, you walked around underneath a platform and waited until your invincibility ended before you started charging needles. then you land needles and follow up with dash attack, a throw would have been a better option, he teched back into you and i guess because you were jabbing the waddle dee you ended up triple jabbing... that's not really the strongest of punishes but that's fine at least it didn't get you hurt or anything. Then you dash attack his shield, tech out spot dodge a grab whiff 2 grabs in a row then get grabbed with your back on the ledge. Then you got D3 dash attack on the ledge, luckily you were only at 30, but Dash attack should never land on characters that aren't chaingrabable. Then you got knocked off stage and managed to only take a get up attack while getting back on. Nice f-tilt to running upsmash, although its a shame D3 is so fat and you were moving since the double hit probably saved him.. he might not have died anyway since D3 is fat. next you mess up a gimp attack, and once again find yourself on the ledge. you get faired during your get up and eat waddle dees as you desperately try to get back on. Kiest messed up another bair and u made it back on intime for the stage flip.
9;10-end You mess up another punish... and it looks like you've completely lost it, you're just throwing out bairs, until he punishes it with forward roll into grab, then he trips during a sure fire punish, and you try to double jab into vanish... That doesn't work, if you have any delusions of that working, discard them immediately. I'm somewhat mad I even saw you try that tbh. Then you get edgehogged as you try to get back.
That's all I have time for right now, I may or may not critique the rest of your vids when i return
6:05-6:20: When D3 bairs your shield, either try to grab his foot, aerial OoS, or maybe try and f-tilt, Shield drop jab isn't going to cut it in that situation lol. Also when getting D-thrown by D3, if you aren't a chaingrabbable character teching in place is a horrible option, it literally lets him CG you. if you tech away he cant punish it without reading it prior, so that's generally the safest option. You can also try waiting a bit then rolling behind him if he starts to move towards you. But yeah teching in place is bad.
6:20-6:38: You actually played this portion pretty well, until you got your f-tilt off, running upsmash is not a safe followup to f-tilt, granted you did hit with the second part, but only because he dropped his shield prematurely to try and grab or something. if you have to dash then Shield dash grab his landing, although you probably could have walked a little forward and caught him out of his air dodge with f or u-tilt. also you messed up your punish on that D-tilt you shielded, I personally would not have expected a second one either, but i also don't think i would have gotten hit by it, from the distance you were at + it not being a power shield I would have either shield dashed or rolled away. unfortunately he just didn't fall into your immediate punish zone from that position. Sheik has a hard time getting up off the ledge, but that was a definite read by Keist. Getting read happens, had you waited a little longer to see if he would take immediate action may have saved your life, but like i said getting off of the ledge sucks. You most likely were going to die there lol.
6:40-7:00: after you got the bair wall bounce (technically it was a stage spike but since he didn't really go down I'll just call it a bounce) you should have double jumped back onto the stage instead of throwing out a fair that couldn't hit, even after you miss the fair had you used chain to recover there instead of vanish you would have made then it back on the ledge in time to punish his recovery, as a result of getting stuck on the ledge with vanish (intentional or not) you got hit by a star then forced off of the stage. Nice job getting back on... but that's dangerous territory to be in.
700-7-30: You kept trying to punish his recovery and get ups with dash attack. I'll break that down a bit more, you were trying to landing trap a character with 5 mid air jumps with a move that if missed leaves you vulnerable for like 10 years. And you also used that same move to try and punish his get ups... get ups have invincibility frames, meaning there is a definite chance of missing the punish, so why take that gamble with a move that if you miss gives the opponent enough time to put the controller down, take a few laps around the room, sit back down, wipe off the sweat, pick the controller back up, and then think about how to punish, and then punish you. your tilts are much better at landing, and landing a tilt leads into a lot more than landing a dash attack, and missing a tilt has a much smaller window that you can be punished in. All in all there is pretty much never a reason to use dash attack unless you have no other means of reaching them... and even then a half way charged needles is probably safer and more worthwhile. Any way those dash attack cost you like 50ish damage... fresh u-tilt kills around 85 on this stage. you probably should have died but it looks like kiest messed up an input and landed with dair instead of bair, and seeing as you didn't shield at all its obvious the bair would have hit you at a horrible angle and he would have had an easy edgeguard against you. Oh well he did miss, then some stuff happened and you got a kill. Good job.
7:30-8:10: I saw you start up a vanish while he was sill invincible... lmao. Then you tried to f-tilt lock him starting at 0%, learn f-tilt percents F-tilt doesnt safely combo into itself until around 20-30% for a general rule of thumb, (You could have however, u-tilted, grabbed, or d-smashed, if you had wanted to be fancy you could have done f-tilt jab 1 jab2, then f-tilt/grab... but f-tilt x4 wasn't going to work... and it didn't work) That right there lead to you off the stage getting destroyed as you tried to get back on. then after you got back on you failed a punish on a missed Dedede dash attack( a bette rpunish would have been instead of just walking back and forth and then dash attacking to just run and grab him, teched his dthrow in place again, got out, and jumped back onto a platform. and Died. that entire series of events I've already explained in different sections of this critique about why they are bad, so if you aren't sure go re-read the post.
8:12-9:10: First you did absolutely nothing with your invincibility frames, you walked around underneath a platform and waited until your invincibility ended before you started charging needles. then you land needles and follow up with dash attack, a throw would have been a better option, he teched back into you and i guess because you were jabbing the waddle dee you ended up triple jabbing... that's not really the strongest of punishes but that's fine at least it didn't get you hurt or anything. Then you dash attack his shield, tech out spot dodge a grab whiff 2 grabs in a row then get grabbed with your back on the ledge. Then you got D3 dash attack on the ledge, luckily you were only at 30, but Dash attack should never land on characters that aren't chaingrabable. Then you got knocked off stage and managed to only take a get up attack while getting back on. Nice f-tilt to running upsmash, although its a shame D3 is so fat and you were moving since the double hit probably saved him.. he might not have died anyway since D3 is fat. next you mess up a gimp attack, and once again find yourself on the ledge. you get faired during your get up and eat waddle dees as you desperately try to get back on. Kiest messed up another bair and u made it back on intime for the stage flip.
9;10-end You mess up another punish... and it looks like you've completely lost it, you're just throwing out bairs, until he punishes it with forward roll into grab, then he trips during a sure fire punish, and you try to double jab into vanish... That doesn't work, if you have any delusions of that working, discard them immediately. I'm somewhat mad I even saw you try that tbh. Then you get edgehogged as you try to get back.
That's all I have time for right now, I may or may not critique the rest of your vids when i return
okay botched ftilts dash attacks and fairs? Mmm... reasonable. I do the opposite I jab instead of tilt sometimes.
getting the correct input is very very important. you can practice that without other people though.
getting the correct input is very very important. you can practice that without other people though.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
@-Backwards-RVR Aisight
one thing that can help when edge hogging olimar is running offstage and grabbing the ledge with chain and just dangling, if olimar chooses to recover high you break off the chain then double jump back on stage and bair olimar back off the stage, the timing is kind of tricky but its easier on YI since the dip on the ledges gives you more time to reach him before he can land and PS.
one thing that can help when edge hogging olimar is running offstage and grabbing the ledge with chain and just dangling, if olimar chooses to recover high you break off the chain then double jump back on stage and bair olimar back off the stage, the timing is kind of tricky but its easier on YI since the dip on the ledges gives you more time to reach him before he can land and PS.
love sight... am i right?
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
I have been doing this for a while except I don't break the chain. Just curious why would you? You zip up almost instantly and you can let go of the ledge immediately with invincibility.
Admittedly if the invulnerability doesn't matter, then dropping from the chain takes fewer inputs for the same result.
1 less input.
I'd just say use jab more in place of those safety dsmashes ai.
I'd just say use jab more in place of those safety dsmashes ai.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
hmmm
I just assumed that it would take longer to zip up to the ledge then drop off than to just drop off. Myabe its not a noticeable amount?
I just assumed that it would take longer to zip up to the ledge then drop off than to just drop off. Myabe its not a noticeable amount?
Hi, Lessthan3!
If you're jabbing instead of F-tilting, it's due to buffer mechanics. The game will prioritize the A-button input before the control stick input when reading buffers if you're still holding the control stick when it reads the buffer.
To put it simply:
If you want to buffer a F-tilt with Sheik, input the F-tilt + A-button and then return the control stick to Neutral.
If you prefer holding the control stick for your Tilt, then you'll have to wait until after the buffer timing is finished. To do this, just wait until you make your movement before pushing the A-button (a half-step forward if F-tilting in front of you, or after you turn around if F-tilting backward).If you want to buffer a F-tilt with Sheik, input the F-tilt + A-button and then return the control stick to Neutral.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
you might be right. But I don't think it would make very much difference. Not to mention you would get more height on the DJ since you'll be at the ledge.
oh thats good to know.
sometime I think its just that I don't move the control-stick enough. when i play my hands barely move... unless I'm superwave dashing....
I am really dependant on a hood controller. But since I am so gentle I haven't needed a new one since my melee days.. I need a new one now though since my controllers just been sitting in my back pack for about a year.
@ledge hog.
even if it did add lag you can account for that by doing it earlier. like how you sheild when charging needles though less extreme.
sometime I think its just that I don't move the control-stick enough. when i play my hands barely move... unless I'm superwave dashing....
I am really dependant on a hood controller. But since I am so gentle I haven't needed a new one since my melee days.. I need a new one now though since my controllers just been sitting in my back pack for about a year.
@ledge hog.
even if it did add lag you can account for that by doing it earlier. like how you sheild when charging needles though less extreme.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
If you do it too soon they can knock you off the ledge then up-b.
Whatever works though.
Whatever works though.
you are invincible once you get to the ledge 22 even if you let go immediately. You also have the option of immediately re-tethering as well.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Olimar isn't really a fast faller, and his uair stays out for 10 years. So if you go to early you'll get get knocked off.
But like I said if its working its working, better or worse doesn't really matter if the desired result is achieved.
But like I said if its working its working, better or worse doesn't really matter if the desired result is achieved.
you can tether let go tether and refresh your invul while invul from the first,
Comedy video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tMtBtpVQg4
vs Lucario (not his main): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETD03HpTt-Y
vs Yoshi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaylhjLR_RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcve7z6QOZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgbNeY0ZN7A
vs Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYsAYlUnwKY
vs Jigglypuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZn0RoF3_E
vs Mario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6rtDHIUzlY
vs Lucario (not his main): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETD03HpTt-Y
vs Yoshi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaylhjLR_RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcve7z6QOZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgbNeY0ZN7A
vs Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYsAYlUnwKY
vs Jigglypuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZn0RoF3_E
vs Mario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6rtDHIUzlY
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Al my vids from my last tourney that were uploaded. Shame I didn't get too much done with Zelda..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQWTP1sb6A&NR=1
(Vs. Mampam)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiyeO6_2Ado&feature=related
(Vs. Kyon 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfGbzmTHv2s&feature=related
(Vs. Kyon 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLzFrjYyF_A&feature=related
(Vs. Ryo Friendlies)
Ummm, critiques are welcome. I'm quite bad against Ryo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQWTP1sb6A&NR=1
(Vs. Mampam)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiyeO6_2Ado&feature=related
(Vs. Kyon 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfGbzmTHv2s&feature=related
(Vs. Kyon 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLzFrjYyF_A&feature=related
(Vs. Ryo Friendlies)
Ummm, critiques are welcome. I'm quite bad against Ryo