Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Xyzz]

I did the same dumb thing on Falco for quite a while. After I had my opponent at high percents I would just look for some finishing move (bair / some tilt mostly). Why would I do something "risky" like a nair approach when I could just space stuff and wait for him to run into it? (I figured, that I'm not a fsmash spamming Marth. I was being relatively safe)
It just doesn't work, I think. If you don't keep your opponent honest with some approaches, it's far too easy for him to figure what type of movement and attacks he needs to outspace and he never needs to feel threatened if he doesn't go to you.

So yeah, no need for ballsy stuff, but some carefully planned approaches are pretty much always a good thing to mix in your neutral game.

 

[darkatma]

^ lord did that to me last week LOL

lord also did the sickest charged double dair -> charged usmash combo I've ever seen

come back to san jose binyan

edit: In all serious, I'm not convinced Sheik's chain is a bad move. I just don't know how you're supposed to use it LOL

Lol I also did a really cool tree combo involving dair, weak uairx2 into tippered upsmash on the top of the tree... shame it wasn't recorded.

 

[omgwtfToph]

omg sheik's weak nair is the shiznit

some PAL technology

 

[Metros]

bro youre taking way too much offense from this lmao

I'm a girl.

That post didn't sound offensive at all.. and GL usually stands for good luck...

Here GL usually is associated with 'Good Lord.' I'm sorry, and that was a mistake on my behalf. Because usually when I have somebody say GL or JC to me, it stands for 'Good Lord' or 'Jesus Christ.' So that's why I thought that it was backlash. I just misinterpreted it.

I apologize to joejoe22802 for that. Sorry for causing a stir, and hope you can forgive me.

 

[dkuo]

you can be a girl and a bro at the same time ~_~

 

[Jartravious]

Sup Sheik boards, recently decided to give sheik a serious shot as a main and I'm wondering how much/which of the stickied threads are still relevant in today's play? What are some general assumptions or misunderstandings that people have about sheik, both new sheik players and people playing against sheik?

 

[Kaffei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upYnFqciT90&t=5m46s
new sheik metagame?

holy **** that was sexy

 

[SillyGoose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upYnFqciT90&t=5m46s
new sheik metagame?

I'm stealing all your needle edgeguard stuff, its so good

 

[KirbyKaze]

You should have cited the combo that followed that combo. I feel it was way more impressive.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Every single character's player base within a 90-98% or so could benefit if they actually bothered to combo properly. The vast, vast majority of Foxes are freaking garbage at comboing Marth, other space animals, Jiggs, ICs, and so forth. Don't get me started on Falcos.

Can I get you started on Falcos?

 

[Kaffei]

@ Toph - Every single character's player base within a 90-98% or so could benefit if they actually bothered to combo properly. The vast, vast majority of Foxes are freaking garbage at comboing Marth, other space animals, Jiggs, ICs, and so forth. Don't get me started on Falcos.

What exactly do you mean "combo properly"; rather, could you go into detail about this? Does it mean (on a vague note) using optimal strings to gimp or something idk asdfadgsuiehrs

 

[Jolteon]

Improving combo flowcharts and/or applying them better (whether it be your decision making or reacting to DI/jumps/techs etc). Most people could make better decisions while comboing.

 

[Jay P.]

Hey guys,
Is there any posts on when/ how to properly apply jabs and percentages for jab resets on various characters?
I'm trying to better apply them in my games, but as of now they are seldom used by me...
Thanks

 

[nicaboy]

Poop
*10chars*

 

[KirbyKaze]

You jab them when it's a good time.

Good times include when it will legit combo into something useful (legit is a loose term here), know they aren't crouching, know they won't react to being hit by jab properly and nair / DJ / etc before you can follow, know exactly how they are going to nair / DJ / etc and have the appropriate counter planned (and it works), and so forth.

 

[omgwtfToph]

One ubiquitous example is using it as a frametrap after AC fair. Preferably spaced.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah that thing is okay vs low range characters that lack a quality crouch counterattack that matches or out-ranges it (which eliminates the Marios entirely).

I think in the current metagame I think that might mean it might work decently vs Axe and Kage with some reason as to why it works aside from, "The opponent screwed up and / or were caught off guard by it because they weren't expecting it." In fact, I wouldn't bother with it vs Marth or an opposing Sheik (unless the situation screamed out for it) for the same reason I'd avoid doing it vs Marios, Samus, and even Peach. Shield grab (while holding down) > crouch counterattack vs the jab shuts down so much of the old Sheik pressure style. Because of how much it used jab. Her jab is one of the better ones but I'd still generally shy away if you can do something more reliable. Which will generally be the case if you're good - it's Sheik FFS.

Jab is honestly jankier than f-smash. Or, rather, it would be if it didn't combo to stuff on airborne opponents or if you can trick them into not holding down vs Sheik (do this by grabbing a lot).

 

[omgwtfToph]

Most notably I think it's strong vs. Falcon.

 

[KirbyKaze]

A Falcon that's stuck in shield is in a lot of trouble for more than just jab and honestly being jabbed is manageable for him because weight and other conveniences. In neutral it's just another ground move except it doesn't hit high so his aerials are empowered against it.

I'm not a huge fan, but I'm not saying it doesn't work either.

 

[Salevits]

When using AC fair against grounded opponents: Would you recommend to ideally always try to use the timing that hits standing Kirby, if possible?

What benefits does it have to hit as low as possible (VS the top characters)

Cause the thing is, I'm used to a timing that's a bit faster, I usually start the fair like ~2 frames before I can fast fall, and then fast fall at the first possible frame or something.. Which is really fast but doesn't really hit standing kirby..

 

[Tero.]

If anybody cares: some knockdown % for Falcon (PAL and NTSC)

Dash Attack: 25%
Ftilt: 29%
Dtilt: 48%
Dsmash: 25%

They should be correct, tested them multiple times. Keep in mind that this is only if your move is not stale.
Also keep in mind that there might be a weaker hitbox in which case you have to add some extra %

Edit:

Fox (this only applies to PAL since Fox is lighter in PAL than NTSC)

Dash Attack: 19%
(NTSC is 20% iirc, there is a post from Strong Bad floating around somewhere in the MU discussion thread)

 

[Strong Badam]

none of those change in NTSC

 

[Tero.]

Thank you Strong Bad.

Btw can anybody make screenshots of the tech animations for fox, falco and falcon?
Like the pauses in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5mse_GZFYM

I can't do it myself but I think it would be really helpful for techchasing on reaction

 

[Bones0]

Really insightful interview from some old-school Sheik main named Dragon_Hawk @ Pound 3. I wonder whatever happened to him...

Spoiler

 

[Xyzz]

He cut his hair

 

[Metal Reeper]

Jab jab dsmash *****. Jab jab retreating nair is good pressure and is safe as hell. Iv been going for fair asap to force off stage and I think its the best option. Unless you arent confident in your edgeguarding. Iv been loving sheik lately.
What does falcon have on sheik?

 

[Jolteon]

auto combos, easy edgeguard, uair is good against her in the air.

 

[joejoe22802]

So what is everyones favorite bait that actually uses an attack? ie( not run up wave dash back and the like)

 

[virtuososteve]

jab, or sh forward/sh waveland back

 

[KirbyKaze]

Anything with bair, nair, fair, or needles.

 

[Tero.]

If anybody cares: some knockdown % for Falcon (PAL and NTSC)

Dash Attack: 25%
Ftilt: 29%
Dtilt: 48%
Dsmash: 25%

They should be correct, tested them multiple times. Keep in mind that this is only if your move is not stale.
Also keep in mind that there might be a weaker hitbox in which case you have to add some extra %

Edit:

Fox (this only applies to PAL since Fox is lighter in PAL than NTSC)

Dash Attack: 19%
(NTSC is 20% iirc, there is a post from Strong Bad floating around somewhere in the MU discussion thread)

Falcon (NTSC/PAL)
Dash Attack: 25%
Ftilt: 29%
Dtilt: 48%
Dsmash: 25%

Fox (PAL only)
Dash Attack: 19%
Ftilt: 23%
Dsmash: 19%

Falco (PAL only)
Dash Attack: 20%
Ftilt: 25%
Dsmash: 20%

 

[omgwtfToph]

Fox needs to GOMAD and lift some heavy ass weight so he doesn't get knocked down at such low percents.

 

[Salevits]

I got totally ignored.

Do you think it's worth my time to learn different AC fair timings? Or is the low hitting one pretty much the only one I need to practice? Any personal experience?

 

[Tero.]

Well tbh I think you should learn all different hights of Fairs and should not focus on only learning or doing just one hight.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't know why you'd limit yourself to only know how to do one kind of fair.

 

[Salevits]

Well my original question was kind of meant to be like.. Do you choose the low fair if you have a choice..

For example: You're fighting Fox on FD, Fox is DD'ing around, and you feel he might come with nair, so you AC fair pre-emptively. So wouldn't it be kinda smart to aim it low "in case he runs in and crouches" or something.. You know covering a lot of options.. I dunno this whole question might have been just dumb. >_>

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's not a dumb question. I'll answer it later though. Tired.

 

[Salevits]

What's the % that it's a good option to Dash Attack when tech chasing: Fox, Falco, Falcon

 

[TRK]

Against falcon, what are the lowest percents at which these become true combos?

1. Down throw --> dash attack the DI away.
2. Down throw --> regrab the DI behind.

 

[omgwtfToph]

1. Very high
2. Rather low