omgwtfToph
Smash Master
thats filthy
-
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Comboing into tipped u-smash is satisfying, yes.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
That's an understatement. Probably one of the best feelings you can get while playing smash.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
wtf your sig has a buff falco groping peach
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
It's hard to explain in short I asked my friend to make me a sig and then when he asked what I wanted it to be I said I didn't know and then sarcastically suggested this and then he made this... I thought it was funny and since he put time into it I really don't want to be rude.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
No dude it's amazing. Please keep the sig.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Ok I like it just not really sure what others thought.
Anyway I just picked up Sheik and was curious what I could practice on my own.
Anyway I just picked up Sheik and was curious what I could practice on my own.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Edit: Incidentally, I feel like "It's kind of useless but I can do it" is the story of my Fox's life.Kirbykaze said:
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Hey, friend of mine can do waveshine oos, and doesn't even play Fox. Talk about useless ... 
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
@omgwtfToph, Thanks that is really helpful I plan on using Sheik in an upcoming tourney in my area so I need to fit in a lot of practice with my friends and by myself.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
If you're practicing with friends, make sure you're as solid as possible on your techchases and edgeguards.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Cool one of them plays Sheik and he is a real bother to play how do you handle the ditto?
Phonz
Smash Cadet
Friend who made inappropriate sig reporting for duty
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Yea... That's him.
How do you work with Needles I can't seem to get a good grip on using them.
How do you work with Needles I can't seem to get a good grip on using them.
I really need critique with Peach MU:
Salevits (Sheik) vs Paju (Peach) 1
Salevits (Sheik) vs Paju (Peach) 2
You may notice that I do a lot of tech errors / totally mindless stuff, I get nervous/pressured when I play Paju, because I've lost to him before.
Salevits (Sheik) vs Paju (Peach) 1
Salevits (Sheik) vs Paju (Peach) 2
You may notice that I do a lot of tech errors / totally mindless stuff, I get nervous/pressured when I play Paju, because I've lost to him before.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
As a Peach Main these are the things I noticed during your match.
-Don't try to dash attack a grounded Peach. Mainly because of her down smash if you just run in then it is going to hit you.
-When Peach approaches from the air Ftilt is your best option against most of her aerial.
-Needles can wreck Peach she is helpless against them so use them when camping
-Once Peach is off stage keep her off stage Sheiks edge guarding is so good. I noticed during her first stock you had her but he managed to get back.
-Watch out for Bairs in this MU they work against Sheik and will trade with most of your moves it is really annoying.
Hope this helps I'm not the very good, but I know this MU pretty well.
-Don't try to dash attack a grounded Peach. Mainly because of her down smash if you just run in then it is going to hit you.
-When Peach approaches from the air Ftilt is your best option against most of her aerial.
-Needles can wreck Peach she is helpless against them so use them when camping
-Once Peach is off stage keep her off stage Sheiks edge guarding is so good. I noticed during her first stock you had her but he managed to get back.
-Watch out for Bairs in this MU they work against Sheik and will trade with most of your moves it is really annoying.
Hope this helps I'm not the very good, but I know this MU pretty well.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Grab isn't that hot in PAL... I'm pretty sure Sheik doesn't have ANYTHING guaranteed of it against good DI so it's most certainly not "practically a stock".
I didn't really watch much (gotta work on a university paper and some friends just told me there'd be smash tonight as well, so I feel kinda motivated to get my university stuff done NOW :D), but if you already say that you do dumb things / tech skill mistakes because of nerves, you have your best way of improving right there. Peach is really good at punishing mistakes, if you don't feed them to her, she'll have to work real hard to get stuff done.
Also: Having not seen so much I can't tell if that gets better later in the matches, but at least in the beginning he gets away with downsmashes where you should've been able to punish them.
I didn't really watch much (gotta work on a university paper and some friends just told me there'd be smash tonight as well, so I feel kinda motivated to get my university stuff done NOW :D), but if you already say that you do dumb things / tech skill mistakes because of nerves, you have your best way of improving right there. Peach is really good at punishing mistakes, if you don't feed them to her, she'll have to work real hard to get stuff done.
Also: Having not seen so much I can't tell if that gets better later in the matches, but at least in the beginning he gets away with downsmashes where you should've been able to punish them.
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
Sorry forgot it was PAL Sheik.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Hit Peach out of float with big aerials safely. If she's grounded, grab her. Nothing else really works on grounded Peach reliably.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Anybody remember last page I asked for advice vs a camping fox?
Anyway I tried to outcamp him with needles like you guys said.
This was the result (vs the same player): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxbapTODx0
It worked and my opponent was really, really desperate. I still lost because I suck and I **** up all the easy stuff (edgeguards and the like) when I'm playing tournaments.
Here are two more sets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zk2y5s7AKA vs CF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjeVEcA-d_0 vs Fox
I had problems with my mindset in both of them. Versus Falcon I ****ed up so many things and I felt like I was so much better but I still lost, it crushed my mindset. I was still able to turn it around in the end with two solid wins in the last 2 matches.
Versus Fox I thought I won the first match, because I didn't realize he shine stalled! After we discussed it and I found out I lost my mindset was totally destroyed. I knew I wouldn't win another match of that set and that's what happened. I got ***** even though I bet the same person on a tournament two days before that tournament with a solid 2-0.
Tipps apreciated
Edit: I also didn't get a SINGLE tech chase that whole tournament
Anyway I tried to outcamp him with needles like you guys said.
This was the result (vs the same player): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxbapTODx0
It worked and my opponent was really, really desperate. I still lost because I suck and I **** up all the easy stuff (edgeguards and the like) when I'm playing tournaments.
Here are two more sets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zk2y5s7AKA vs CF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjeVEcA-d_0 vs Fox
I had problems with my mindset in both of them. Versus Falcon I ****ed up so many things and I felt like I was so much better but I still lost, it crushed my mindset. I was still able to turn it around in the end with two solid wins in the last 2 matches.
Versus Fox I thought I won the first match, because I didn't realize he shine stalled! After we discussed it and I found out I lost my mindset was totally destroyed. I knew I wouldn't win another match of that set and that's what happened. I got ***** even though I bet the same person on a tournament two days before that tournament with a solid 2-0.
Tipps apreciated
Edit: I also didn't get a SINGLE tech chase that whole tournament
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
@ Tero
You play such a simple, passive, incrementally oriented movement game with your WD back. Especially vs the Falcon. You have to be more fluid and confident about traversing positional distances. You are constantly and very deliberately fighting for a really long distance between you and him but this doesn't work for you because of his dash dance and dynamic range of jump distances (hard to play with unit chunks vs someone who moves so far). For this reason, you're actually trying to play in a way that encroaches Falcon's space but without leaving yourself vulnerable (otherwise you get dash danced out of the game).
So with everything I have just said, my feeling is that you probably don't understand that you're out-timing a lot of his attacks rather than out-hitboxing him directly; this is reflected in you're endeavors to avoid having to use your attacks to interact with his attacks (judging how you're trying to keep a dash dance grab type spacing) but attack vs. attack is one of the major avenues Sheik uses to beat Falcon in neutral. You have bigger hitboxes and faster startup and a SH that works like a mini Peach float. In attack vs. attack, you have a big leg up. By walking into crouch, shield, or SH appropriately you can threaten him really well. Encroaching his space is seriously key and hold your ground until he's pinned - your whole evade > punish game that works vs smaller distances like space animal SH aerial lengths is totally futile against Falcon until he stops moving (and even then he has the option pool and range to circumvent it anyway). Best to hold your ground IMO, even on defense - blocking a dash SH nair so he flies by or crouching in response to a dash SH stomp to duck it are preferable to responding to the dash jump by sliding back with a WD only to ultimately just remain in the attack's flight path.
You need Falcon to sit still so you can then use your better moves. Be a rock.
FWIW I love jumping around with fair and bair in this match. I feel her f-tilt is too grab-food at this point whereas the window to swing in her SH opens up a lot of timing and drifting strategies that make her capable of stuffing Falcon attacks while retaining some degree of protection from dash dance grab. That said, I understand this isn't popular so if ground makes more sense to you then do it lol
You play such a simple, passive, incrementally oriented movement game with your WD back. Especially vs the Falcon. You have to be more fluid and confident about traversing positional distances. You are constantly and very deliberately fighting for a really long distance between you and him but this doesn't work for you because of his dash dance and dynamic range of jump distances (hard to play with unit chunks vs someone who moves so far). For this reason, you're actually trying to play in a way that encroaches Falcon's space but without leaving yourself vulnerable (otherwise you get dash danced out of the game).
So with everything I have just said, my feeling is that you probably don't understand that you're out-timing a lot of his attacks rather than out-hitboxing him directly; this is reflected in you're endeavors to avoid having to use your attacks to interact with his attacks (judging how you're trying to keep a dash dance grab type spacing) but attack vs. attack is one of the major avenues Sheik uses to beat Falcon in neutral. You have bigger hitboxes and faster startup and a SH that works like a mini Peach float. In attack vs. attack, you have a big leg up. By walking into crouch, shield, or SH appropriately you can threaten him really well. Encroaching his space is seriously key and hold your ground until he's pinned - your whole evade > punish game that works vs smaller distances like space animal SH aerial lengths is totally futile against Falcon until he stops moving (and even then he has the option pool and range to circumvent it anyway). Best to hold your ground IMO, even on defense - blocking a dash SH nair so he flies by or crouching in response to a dash SH stomp to duck it are preferable to responding to the dash jump by sliding back with a WD only to ultimately just remain in the attack's flight path.
You need Falcon to sit still so you can then use your better moves. Be a rock.
FWIW I love jumping around with fair and bair in this match. I feel her f-tilt is too grab-food at this point whereas the window to swing in her SH opens up a lot of timing and drifting strategies that make her capable of stuffing Falcon attacks while retaining some degree of protection from dash dance grab. That said, I understand this isn't popular so if ground makes more sense to you then do it lol
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Salevits, your edgegame is really weak.
More to come later.
...more and later.
Basically you seem to have no confidence or real understanding of how you're supposed to manage your advantages vs Peach. Yeah, I get that it's PAL but you still have a leg up on her in a lot of respects. I mean that quite literally. Your legs rock her world.
In this matchup you basically spend a lot of your time swatting her out of her float stance and the air in general. Your aerials are not actually the best attacks to be hitting on her when she's grounded; however, because of sidestep and her WD back (and Sheik's relatively weak ground attacks and so-so approach options) we wind up using the jump and gigantic aerials to police a certain zone and scout for her options.
Now, I want to expand on that last bit. Scout for her options - you seem to have really ingrained FF habits with your jumps and they do you no favours. Not fast falling your SH allows you to go around dash attacks for much longer when combined with back jump. It also lets you delay your fair swing for much longer. The fast fall is nice for staying mobile but vs Peach the fade away and more accurate placement on fair is often more valuable.
I think you need to grab this guy more and work on your d-throw game. Sheik likes it when Peach is offstage or on the ledge. Though d-throw doesn't combo as well as it does in NTSC, it now pushes her a huge distance with a low trajectory. Needling her as she goes offstage with it can be a good way to set up easy bair edge guards or even gimps if you're good at reverse fair. Grab is still very valuable against her.
For edge guards, you need to understand that your bair is amazing but Sheik lingers in the air if she goes too high. She also has limited air mobility so Peach will try to get you to overextend and miss, then go below or around your foot. Edge guarding her (and holding her above you too, actually) is a lot of playing chicken to control and eliminate options from her option pool until she's basically forced to take a hit. I recommend stalking under her with SHs so she is always in bair range and then just see how she reacts. Don't over extend and stuff her fairs with your leg.
Invincible bair (and other attacks) just crashes through her umbrella and attacks. You create situations where you can invincibly attack her through her action or cover an air dodge or such and you just don't.
It is okay to hit Peach across the stage if she is over 110-130% provided you will be able to harass her before she hits the ground with something substantial (at least dash attack / d-tilt).
You have a bit of a one track mind with how you manage the edge. You SH back and threaten to hog or bair. He has a position he falls into to counter this; you need to be more flexible. Sometimes running off into DJ (FF optional) can set up fairs or nairs that cover different heights and such by the Peach. Similarly, don't underestimate run off fair or WD FF edge hog - they're useful and often come up.
Oh and uair into DJ fair more during combos at mid percents. Might as well use one of PAL Sheik's few advantages over NTSC Sheik. Heck, try to uair chain on platforms. Looks like it could work and do like 40% if you set it up correctly. I actually think SH uair to cover air-dodges and hit under nairs and such could be a strong play in PAL at high percents (as opposed to the NTSC standard with bair) simply because if the uair strong hits you could probably FF and chase her with bair ASAP and if she air-dodges you can probably track her with a fade and weak hit, allowing you to combo into bair or fair.
Oh and if she DIs away from weak bair, her trajectory allows you to shoot her with needles. If she remains onstage then the needles can still be effective to push her into grabbing the edge if she's near it. Otherwise dash cancel jab / d-tilt can sometimes reach her. Nice thing about jab is that it can sometimes beat her nair off positioning or stuff it entirely. It tends to work better at high percents than f-tilt because of the lower knockback.
More to come later.
...more and later.
Basically you seem to have no confidence or real understanding of how you're supposed to manage your advantages vs Peach. Yeah, I get that it's PAL but you still have a leg up on her in a lot of respects. I mean that quite literally. Your legs rock her world.
In this matchup you basically spend a lot of your time swatting her out of her float stance and the air in general. Your aerials are not actually the best attacks to be hitting on her when she's grounded; however, because of sidestep and her WD back (and Sheik's relatively weak ground attacks and so-so approach options) we wind up using the jump and gigantic aerials to police a certain zone and scout for her options.
Now, I want to expand on that last bit. Scout for her options - you seem to have really ingrained FF habits with your jumps and they do you no favours. Not fast falling your SH allows you to go around dash attacks for much longer when combined with back jump. It also lets you delay your fair swing for much longer. The fast fall is nice for staying mobile but vs Peach the fade away and more accurate placement on fair is often more valuable.
I think you need to grab this guy more and work on your d-throw game. Sheik likes it when Peach is offstage or on the ledge. Though d-throw doesn't combo as well as it does in NTSC, it now pushes her a huge distance with a low trajectory. Needling her as she goes offstage with it can be a good way to set up easy bair edge guards or even gimps if you're good at reverse fair. Grab is still very valuable against her.
For edge guards, you need to understand that your bair is amazing but Sheik lingers in the air if she goes too high. She also has limited air mobility so Peach will try to get you to overextend and miss, then go below or around your foot. Edge guarding her (and holding her above you too, actually) is a lot of playing chicken to control and eliminate options from her option pool until she's basically forced to take a hit. I recommend stalking under her with SHs so she is always in bair range and then just see how she reacts. Don't over extend and stuff her fairs with your leg.
Invincible bair (and other attacks) just crashes through her umbrella and attacks. You create situations where you can invincibly attack her through her action or cover an air dodge or such and you just don't.
It is okay to hit Peach across the stage if she is over 110-130% provided you will be able to harass her before she hits the ground with something substantial (at least dash attack / d-tilt).
You have a bit of a one track mind with how you manage the edge. You SH back and threaten to hog or bair. He has a position he falls into to counter this; you need to be more flexible. Sometimes running off into DJ (FF optional) can set up fairs or nairs that cover different heights and such by the Peach. Similarly, don't underestimate run off fair or WD FF edge hog - they're useful and often come up.
Oh and uair into DJ fair more during combos at mid percents. Might as well use one of PAL Sheik's few advantages over NTSC Sheik. Heck, try to uair chain on platforms. Looks like it could work and do like 40% if you set it up correctly. I actually think SH uair to cover air-dodges and hit under nairs and such could be a strong play in PAL at high percents (as opposed to the NTSC standard with bair) simply because if the uair strong hits you could probably FF and chase her with bair ASAP and if she air-dodges you can probably track her with a fade and weak hit, allowing you to combo into bair or fair.
Oh and if she DIs away from weak bair, her trajectory allows you to shoot her with needles. If she remains onstage then the needles can still be effective to push her into grabbing the edge if she's near it. Otherwise dash cancel jab / d-tilt can sometimes reach her. Nice thing about jab is that it can sometimes beat her nair off positioning or stuff it entirely. It tends to work better at high percents than f-tilt because of the lower knockback.
darkatma
Smash Hero
I love KK advice. He tells you why you're bad and then gives you ways to change that 
OliClutch117
Smash Apprentice
How do you handle the Marth MU?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Basically you just wait for him to jump or toss out a panic defence and then you **** him for it.
Depending on the Marth I either try to press them to the edge and control the middle or I play heavily with needles and try to coax Marth into chasing Sheik with his aerials.
In general, taking real estate from Marth is a decent plan. This is because Marth basically needs dash away available as a strong and versatile option (d-tilt is his offense so he has to have enough room to set up dash cancels) or else his only avenue to excel in the first hit game (dash dance abuse) is basically null. From there obey the basics of combat, understanding his shield grab is enormous so tilts and d-smash aren't good vs his shield approach - stick to grabs and aerials with ground moves (namely f-tilt after like 30%) done to prevent him from WDing under your SHs in the same way ICs will WD under you after you sink an aerial into their shield if they predict another SH.
Marth's jumps are sometimes confusing so I'll try to answer some of the common questions and misconceptions. First, it is true that Sheik can play similar to a space animal, Falcon, and so forth by using her linear hits and more convenient hit angles to stuff his attacks with her faster ones. That said, the number of positions where this actually works with some of the stereotypical Turkey filler moves and its nuances are more complex than most people will admit. F-tilt takes a while to swing upwards and it requires you remain stationary; this means that it basically doesn't work to stuff things unless you're already pretty close to Marth. Similarly, bair doesn't have a really good lead in if Marth is airborne before you are (if Marth is already at peak height for his SH you can't really go in with bair to stuff him if you're on the ground and within his fair's hit space) but if you're both aligned with one another (or he's way too high up and grossly out of position) then you can do it. There's a lot of nuances like that to this matchup.
In general I'm not really a fan of trying to stuff his aerials if you're further than his tipped fair and he's moving away from you. Focus on maneuvering around and exerting a threat by holding the stage you've taken while continuing to press him further back. Remember that he doesn't really have much of an approach without his d-tilt because otherwise he can basically jump, grab, block, or dash attack (and other punishable ground moves). This means he's weakened by proximity to you and the edge and it actually empowers sidestep as a pressure tool vs panic shield grabs or desperation grabs (make sure he's not dash dancing and this is actually decent). If you still find he won't commit, either take a gamble by reading where he's going in the limited space or continue to play conservatively and take more stage while applying pressure without really committing. SHing against a Marth that's already airborne is typically bad, and there's no reason to do it if he's not in range to be hit by the aerial.
Be aware of counter as a combo break option and don't overextend when juggling him; let him fall into the traps.
Depending on the Marth I either try to press them to the edge and control the middle or I play heavily with needles and try to coax Marth into chasing Sheik with his aerials.
In general, taking real estate from Marth is a decent plan. This is because Marth basically needs dash away available as a strong and versatile option (d-tilt is his offense so he has to have enough room to set up dash cancels) or else his only avenue to excel in the first hit game (dash dance abuse) is basically null. From there obey the basics of combat, understanding his shield grab is enormous so tilts and d-smash aren't good vs his shield approach - stick to grabs and aerials with ground moves (namely f-tilt after like 30%) done to prevent him from WDing under your SHs in the same way ICs will WD under you after you sink an aerial into their shield if they predict another SH.
Marth's jumps are sometimes confusing so I'll try to answer some of the common questions and misconceptions. First, it is true that Sheik can play similar to a space animal, Falcon, and so forth by using her linear hits and more convenient hit angles to stuff his attacks with her faster ones. That said, the number of positions where this actually works with some of the stereotypical Turkey filler moves and its nuances are more complex than most people will admit. F-tilt takes a while to swing upwards and it requires you remain stationary; this means that it basically doesn't work to stuff things unless you're already pretty close to Marth. Similarly, bair doesn't have a really good lead in if Marth is airborne before you are (if Marth is already at peak height for his SH you can't really go in with bair to stuff him if you're on the ground and within his fair's hit space) but if you're both aligned with one another (or he's way too high up and grossly out of position) then you can do it. There's a lot of nuances like that to this matchup.
In general I'm not really a fan of trying to stuff his aerials if you're further than his tipped fair and he's moving away from you. Focus on maneuvering around and exerting a threat by holding the stage you've taken while continuing to press him further back. Remember that he doesn't really have much of an approach without his d-tilt because otherwise he can basically jump, grab, block, or dash attack (and other punishable ground moves). This means he's weakened by proximity to you and the edge and it actually empowers sidestep as a pressure tool vs panic shield grabs or desperation grabs (make sure he's not dash dancing and this is actually decent). If you still find he won't commit, either take a gamble by reading where he's going in the limited space or continue to play conservatively and take more stage while applying pressure without really committing. SHing against a Marth that's already airborne is typically bad, and there's no reason to do it if he's not in range to be hit by the aerial.
Be aware of counter as a combo break option and don't overextend when juggling him; let him fall into the traps.
NewJerusalem
Smash Apprentice
The Moon and I vs DaShizWiz and StricNyne, any critique would be appreciated.
Match Starts around 1:40
http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/411281167
Match Starts around 1:40
http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/411281167
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Run off poofhog
Swedish Delight
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
- Messages
- 30
Can someone help me with fox? My match is at an hour and 10 http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/411735286
I messed up some tech chasing and other timings in terms of offense, but I find that I struggle most with defense especially on platforms.
I messed up some tech chasing and other timings in terms of offense, but I find that I struggle most with defense especially on platforms.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
^ For a second I thought that you were SilentSwag and I was like "wait doesn't he love the Fox matchup?"
I'll let someone else help you, because your Sheik is better than mine anyway.
I'll let someone else help you, because your Sheik is better than mine anyway.
Swedish Delight
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
- Messages
- 30
I thought I liked it before because when I was on platforms foxes didn't really pressure me, and I could charge needles and move around easily. Then I had to start playing better foxes. That's when problems started.
The easiest thing to do would be to not be on the platforms when they are below you and use good ground movement instead (or just work on denying them space in the first place). If they're horizontally far enough from you then you can run off -> bair or turnaround -> needles, if they're too close then I would just try to land without sticking out a hitbox since they can just dd -> grab or cc -> punish.
You can also bait them to commit to an early aerial and then get a free landing, I'd suggest learning how to shield drop consistently for this purpose.
You can also bait them to commit to an early aerial and then get a free landing, I'd suggest learning how to shield drop consistently for this purpose.
darkatma
Smash Hero
I'm no Kirbykaze, but I do enjoy watching your sheik and may have some input (And I did chat with him about sheik stuffs beforehand). First, lets talk about your full hop style. You attack and defend primarily through full hops, which seems to let you space fairly well on the way down for most matchups. With fox however, you're leaving your weakest spot open every time you full hop: your underside. A well versed fox will either aim directly below you and crouch cancel your attacks and respond, or just shield underneath, which is the safest spot, and punish accordingly. The problem exacerbates when you're on the platforms, because when you force yourself onto them as a form of defense, you're actually leaving your underside even more vulnerable unless you explore your platform options more thoroughly.
So what improving vs fox may mean for you is improving your platform game. You have a very strong understanding of ground play and tech chasing with grab on the main stage, so now you can focus on the other platforms. I'd suggest practicing quicker wavelands on and off the platforms, wavedashing out of shield after getting hit on them, shielddrops if you have a bit more time to expend. Even something simple like short hop out of shield -> fast fall through platform with an aerial would be useful.
Another thing to note: go back and watch for yourself coming down with bairs when fox is under 30%, and note how many times Zoso is able to crouch cancel and punish. If you see him directly under you and ready to CC, you might have to switch up into a late nair, or just get out of the way. Another way to avoid this of course is to start mixing in more short hop aerials into your game. Explore more of the timings of sheik's fast fall aerials with both your SH and your FH.
I guess an overarching theme to your gameplay is that you're very good at the things you do, but you also do few different types of things. There's often more than one correct option, and by settling for only one or two options you make yourself plain to the opponent, and it becomes very easy to punish you for your mistakes. Zoso was able to punish you hard for ftilting his shield by drill shine->upsmashing you, but if you mixed in SH fair and bair zoning and pressure, sneaking in an ftilt that gets shielded occasionally is actually much safer.
darkatma
Smash Hero
I watched some of your other matches and it doesn't seem like the full hop thing holds true for those, so now I have no idea. Teach me your system for techchasing please! It's the weakest part of my game, especially vs falcon.
Swedish Delight
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
- Messages
- 30
Thanks for the advice! I never realized I full hopped so much since it just worked against most of the people I played. It definitely gets to a point where the people I face are too good for that though. and I can no longer just try to go around them.
For techchasing against falcon and fox, I walk towards them before they hit the ground and try to run/stand for another grab. If they miss the tech, I double jab and try to grab again unless they smash di it. In that case I try for f-tilt and hope it hits. I only do this because I'm not confident with my dash attacks, although I believe you're supposed to start doing that around 30ish percent. That's what I remember from m2k. And if I'm even less confident, I react to their tech and just down smash because it's easy to c-stick down. Falco is a harder version of fox since his tech roll is longer and faster. It feels good to dash attack falcos though so I go for those more.
For techchasing against falcon and fox, I walk towards them before they hit the ground and try to run/stand for another grab. If they miss the tech, I double jab and try to grab again unless they smash di it. In that case I try for f-tilt and hope it hits. I only do this because I'm not confident with my dash attacks, although I believe you're supposed to start doing that around 30ish percent. That's what I remember from m2k. And if I'm even less confident, I react to their tech and just down smash because it's easy to c-stick down. Falco is a harder version of fox since his tech roll is longer and faster. It feels good to dash attack falcos though so I go for those more.
Good **** SD! MM at Evo?
Swedish Delight
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
- Messages
- 30
Oh wait do you mean in general? I automatically assumed after downthrow. In general I do just try and do the same thing though. If theyre on a platform I just try and hit with an aerial because I'm not technical enough to do anything else
darkatma
Smash Hero
I just meant after dthrow. You're consistent with the regrab to a level that makes me envious. You must have an amazing reaction time, because I can never get the DI slight forward, tech away ones unless I guess.
Swedish Delight
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
- Messages
- 30
It basically comes down to reaction time and knowing when the invincibility ends and the lag they have after. And for the di slight forward, I feel like sheik needs to walk up to them a bit before starting to dash/attack to their tech. Most important thing to me though is to stay calm and not feel bad about tech chase grabbing for so long because sheik can get wrecked pretty easily
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Swedish, I think you're at the level where you'd benefit a lot more from discussing your matches with me in an actual conversation rather than me giving you a critique. Add me on AIM or FB or something and we can go from there. I like your Sheik and have much to discuss with you