Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[soap]

Ya her CC is stupid. Alotta the time it's more rewarding than shield.

 

[Sweet™]

So uh.
I'm slowly getting there.

What I need help with the most against Falco (and obviously Fox) is that I don't know where to be, and when, how I SHOULD react in certain situations, and more effective moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GebFIabnqPM&feature=plcp

If anyone would be so kind to help me out a little, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Bing]

Bye David D: At least I have you on facebook. Sad that it had to come to this, people lose their **** way too easily, and now its cost us one of if not the most knowledgeable players around. I can't say Im surprised though...

 

[KirbyKaze]

KK really needs to explain what he means by "I don't like the way the community is headed".

because to me, it seems like he is saying " I don't like how I'm supposed to try in WFs at a national tournament or how people got mad at my friend for playing friendlies in GFs"

if he wants a community where that is totally accepted by everyone including stream monsters, I'm glad he's leaving

Why is it such a big deal when I **** around in finals but it's totally fine for so many other people to do the same thing? Moreover, why is it okay for the stream monsters to force me to replay or continue a set after the opponent has already lost it or forfeited it?

There are too many external influences getting a huge say in how tournaments should go. And not even people attending the tournament, players, etc. Just random viewers.

Heck, it feels like the external masses are getting more say in what should be kosher in a set than I am.

I don't agree with this. This is wrong.

I had no qualms with going to GFs after I "beat" Unknown (it was a fraudulent win but nobody forced SFAT and Unknown to keep playing when this happened at TBH2) and waiting for M2K. If any of you would be nice enough to recall the beginning of the set, I was willing to humour the stream and play Sheik-Fox with him. We even struck and did everything all official-like to make it pretty. But then I went up 4-2 really fast and he forfeited. However, then outside people stepped in and forced the set to be played. Neither of us wanted to play at this point.

It was only after they made us keep playing when I had no desire to do so, had already won the set, and after a very similar thing happened earlier in the tournament (between M2K and Unknown) that I decided that this tournament wasn't even worth trying to win. All I wanted to do was play M2K and go home. So I picked a goofy MU, lost, and then played M2K. Tried to win, but didn't. It happens. I dunno why so many people are complaining about a crappy LFs since I even Sheik dittoed him and tried but oh well. I guess my trying isn't good enough for you guys!

Did I handle being forced to replay I set I'd already won badly? Sure. But I also don't really see how it's within the stream's power to revive dead sets and so forth either. FWIW I think every party involved in this tournament (including myself, VGBC, Alukard, Unknown, and M2K) made some serious errors.

 

[soap]

Down 4-2 in the first game of a bO5 hardly merits a forfeit.

I dont appreciate when other players **** around in the finals either.

For the record I dont, and have never cared what other fighting game communities think about us. But I do care about our community.

I know u and unknown have played each other a bajillion times, but is it so hard to play out the set seriously out of at least respect to alucard and the people who set up rom?

The situation is different if you guys are at a Toronto regional, but you should rep your scene harder when not at home

You were trying against M2k but it felt like your mindstate for this tourney was already gone at that point.

Alucard messed up, M2k seemed annoying as hell, but you guys messed up too. I dont think we will get anywhere by crucifying our own players. We all just want a simple 'my bad' and move on and fix our mistakes as TO's, players, etc.

 

[omgwtfToph]

KK (idk if you'll see this):

Just about the only part of your post I disagree with is the sentence "FWIW I think every party involved in this tournament (including myself, VGBC, Alukard, Unknown, and M2K) made some serious errors." I think everybody made some pretty minor errors, in the grand scheme of things, that came together in a perfect storm because of mob mentality and overreaction.

Most people were well-intentioned, too. Alukard's weird TO decisions weren't him trying to be an *******; he first tried to make things fair for you and Unknown by not having the two of you meet in semis, and later he tried to give Unknown a chance at what he saw as a "legitimate" tourney set by having him not have to lose to M2K twice on FD.

Bad decisions? Sure, but I don't think that made him a ****. If anything, him blowing up at M2K on Facebook after the event was the nastiest thing he did.

I honestly think the only thing wrong that you/Ryan/M2K did was to get depressed over all of it. Which is hardly a "serious error." Just laugh this sort of thing off next time (well, if there is a next time; hopefully there isn't), everyone makes mistakes. @_@

That's my 2 cents anyway. Maybe I'm just an optimist lol. But I'd like to think optimism is healthy sometimes.

 

[Ripple]

I had no problem with you LFs set KK. FWIW

and I also care when people **** around in finals. I would have been mad a Lovage and S2J in Finals had they not tried, but they did. they gave a good show. that's all people want.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Do you complain and freak out every single time M2K goes Falco in GFs after splitting with Zhu or whoever? No? Then don't bother me about it either.

 

[Ripple]

I have blown up on m2K about it many times before. ( when I see it, that is)

 

[Wenbobular]

For a second I thought KK was quitting Melee entirely based on the reactions from the last two pages and I got mad scared

 

[Deleted member]

KK really needs to explain what he means by "I don't like the way the community is headed".

because to me, it seems like he is saying " I don't like how I'm supposed to try in WFs at a national tournament or how people got mad at my friend for playing friendlies in GFs"

if he wants a community where that is totally accepted by everyone including stream monsters, I'm glad he's leaving

So wait,

1. you were not at the tournament.
2. you had nothing to do with the tournament.
3. while being completely irrelevant to the event in every way, you feel that you have some right to what someone unrelated to you in any way does with their body/autonomy 500+ miles away.
4. the threat to your intense level of entitlement makes you so mad that you want to punish this person.
5. and the way you want to punish this person is to restore the sense of autonomy that he should have had to begin with.

 

[ShroudedOne]

When you put it that way, it sounds completely ********, Umbreon.

Oh...wait...

 

[Deleted member]

When you put it that way, it sounds completely ********, Umbreon.

Oh...wait...

once upon a time in melee, you could enter a tournament with items on low, and only some items like beamswords or shells, and you could play on more stages like jungle japes or corneria, but some of the stages were banned.

the MBR spent a good amount of its energy deciding which items were unfit for competitive play. eventually, the items were removed a few at a time, until we got rid of them completely. then, the stages were narrowed down too, from 15, to 13 ("7 golden neutrals" and 6 counterpicks), to 9, to the 6 we have now.

we decided that these things were too obstructive to competitive play. they had the potential to influence the purity of tournament results.

now, our community has decided that the stream carries more weight than our players do. our players are not allowed to forfeit or play fun characters because it's not as exciting to stream viewers. in other words, our players are not 100% responsible for their own tournament results.

i would argue that this type of interference is more disruptive to tournament results because at least the items and stages are announced in the rule set prior to the tournament. the influence of the community is never addressed in our tournament rule sets prior to the tournament. splitting, forfeiting, and playing non-primary characters are never addressed by our rule sets, so our players have no reason to think that there are any outside influences on their tournament results.

this is the problem we are facing after rom 5. i agree with david that I do not like where the community is heading, because it is easier to resolve a victory through a pokeball on the stage than it is someone like ripple on a stream from a different part of the continent.

i understand why he opposes this type of stupidity, and i agree with him fully. this is disregarding the double standard imposed on his public image when compared to his peers. both in tandem are pretty detestable. i agree with all of his viewpoints.

 

[bubbaking]

You brought KK back, guys. Good job!

Edit: After finally reading all of this, I'm glad I'm not a top player, because it seems too tedious. I always just play for fun. That's the bottom line in my competitive career. If I get to the GF's of some big tourney playing solo Sheik, but then I decide to switch to Samus in some god-awful 7:3 MU that I could do just fine as Sheik because I want to have fun now that I'm guaranteed money, I don't want some person to get on my case 'cause they think I'm sandbagging. I didn't come to your tournament to appease the masses. I came to your tournament to play a game I enjoy the way I like it and maybe win some money while I'm at it. That being said, I think KK might be overreacting a little bit. I didn't watch the end of RoM 5, but it sounds like some serious **** went down.

Edit 2: However, I really have a thing against blaming TOs for the way they do things, unless they do something extremely unfair to a specific person that was uncalled for without some kind of reason. If someone doesn't like the way someone else does things, then he should hold his own tournament and get people to come to it.

 

[Xyzz]

Just wanted to say this is one of the rare occasions I would just cosign Umbreons entire statement (I usually at least disagree with some minor points). Feeling entitled to getting ANYTHING from grand finals or whatever is just dumb. The players worked their way there, defeating any obstacle in a more or less fair way... entirely up to them what they feel like doing now.
Especially when they're up against somebody they play all the time already. There's some super good friends of mine who play smash as well, and I see them at least 10 hours or sth per week... I'm pretty sure I couldn't deliver my 100% serious A game against them, even if I felt like trying.

Also, I'd cosign Tophs statement. Especially the last bit, being optimistic about most everything is really helpful :D

 

[SacaSuMoto]

has anybody tried jabbing cpt falcon between the first and 2nd hit of his nair?

cpt falcon's nair
"Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29"

8 frames between

Sheiks jab

Total: 17
Hit: 2-3

 

[Purpletuce]

If the Falcon hits on the earliest frame, you gain a window of 13 frames. Sheik, at any %(first hit is weight dependent, set knockback) and crouch canceling will have a 13 frames of hitstun. Since it is set knockback, stale moves won't affect the hitstun. So it will not work, ever.

(Used P:M's tool, MasterHand by StrongBad, and formulas by Magus420.)

 

[SacaSuMoto]

oh i imagined the first hit of the nair being whiffed

 

[soap]

I do not understand what u just crunched but yes you can ftilt between nair hits when the first one misses

 

[Wenbobular]

You know what's sweet
Shield drop Bair on Falcon's Nair
I have no idea how fast Sheik's Bair comes out but it works with spacies haha

 

[Purpletuce]

I thought you were asking if you could get between the hits. If the question is if you can hit him after he whiffs, obviously you can. You can do it with any move with the proper timing. Although to see him whiffing the first hit, you won't have the reaction time to punish it, so you need to read it.

If you play spacies and shield drop B-air, you should platform cancel it. Shield Drop -> platform cancel is sweet. . .

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wow this sounds so complicated

I had no idea beating Falcon's moves was so intense

 

[john!]

it's not

Spoiler

if you have skanky ***** ninja legs

 

[omgwtfToph]

I knew KK would be back to make snarky comments about how ****ty Falcon is! :D

Cuz Falcon is prettttty ****ty.

 

[joejoe22802]

Anyone watch Extreme homes? that **** is bomb almost as bomb as autocanelling needles.

 

[bubbaking]

has anybody tried jabbing cpt falcon between the first and 2nd hit of his nair?

cpt falcon's nair
"Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29"

8 frames between

Sheiks jab

Total: 17
Hit: 2-3

If the Falcon hits on the earliest frame, you gain a window of 13 frames. Sheik, at any %(first hit is weight dependent, set knockback) and crouch canceling will have a 13 frames of hitstun. Since it is set knockback, stale moves won't affect the hitstun. So it will not work, ever.

Well, Sheik should be able to do it if she PS's the first hit, right? Just sayin'.....

I thought you were asking if you could get between the hits. If the question is if you can hit him after he whiffs, obviously you can. You can do it with any move with the proper timing. Although to see him whiffing the first hit, you won't have the reaction time to punish it, so you need to read it.

Well, you could always just force the spacing yourself so that you know slightly ahead of time that the nair will whiff. You know, like, run at him to bait a reaction and then WD back to establish defensive spacing. Then you could jab if you saw him nair where you were.

 

[Xyzz]

What's wrong with making him whiff and then dash attacking / grabbing his landing lag? :x
Simplicity > all :D

 

[bubbaking]

I was just stating ways in which it was possible to jab in between the hits of the nair. I believe we all were.....

 

[Xyzz]

I believe super theory bros is stupid

 

[soap]

Well I often find myself in the situation where the first hit of nair misses but falcon is still hurtling towards me with the second hit.

You can shield and concede the pressure to him, or interupt him with a tilt

 

[silentSWAG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGrWGUrf5o&feature=BFa&list=FLWHCXPl_FEgq4_cRw_jQ98A
critique?

at least the first two matches
this is a lil old but i want to see what you guys have to say

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGrWGUrf5o&feature=BFa&list=FLWHCXPl_FEgq4_cRw_jQ98A
critique?

at least the first two matches
this is a lil old but i want to see what you guys have to say

your style looks fun.

z catch the turnips, its much easier.

you miss a lot of easy openings on peach, but that kind of stuff comes over time.

just don't ever let her dash attack you.

 

[Voltz]

I believe shiek vs peach is 55-45 shiek

do you agree?

 

[silentSWAG]

your style looks fun.

z catch the turnips, its much easier.

you miss a lot of easy openings on peach, but that kind of stuff comes over time.

just don't ever let her dash attack you.

i always z catch turnips
:/

 

[Spife]

Swag, i'll do a write up for you on sunday maybe, but i suck so idk how useful itll be

 

[Van.]

yeah swag you're pretty good dude

 

[Spife]

So everyone knows that percent where you can dthrow->dsmash spacies (120ish, idk id di dependent) can you just cg that? I always forget to try

 

[soap]

Ya. But you are better off with the dsmash or a ftilt fair

 

[silentSWAG]

i like dthrow d tilt for spacies some times i can get a tip usmash or dair platform combos
but its like 65 percent if they west coast di

 

[omgwtfToph]

holy **** silentswag
your avatar is so accurate LOL