Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[SonuvaBeach]

i don't. so I do the vanish edgehog. I always lose momentum during the needle turnaround or full hop and miss the fastfall. main question, do you turn around and cancel before the fast fall or after, or what.

 

[Xyzz]

You want to keep holding the direction until you have pressed jump to keep the momentum (although Sheik doesn't get that far dash jumps anyways). Also: You can't ff during the charge, so be careful about that.
Or in button inputs:
Dash towards the ledge, keep holding right (or left where applicable, obviously ), hit x or y, flick the stick left, let it return to neutral, quickly hit b, hit the left or right shoulder trigger, input the fast fall, return the stick to neutral to avoid falling past the edge.

edit: you do the turnaround charge before the ff, yes. Definitely. (if the other way around is possible at all it's at least super hard to do).

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Awesome thank you. I know it's simple and that is what I thought, but I just had to be sure since I can do basically everything else with her consistently.

 

[Xyzz]

If you can do that vanish thing, the needle turnaround should be a piece of cake.

Also, I like needle turnaround charge cancels with her to bair people with her stupidly long leg in edge guards :D

 

[Teczer0]

He's always randomly asking tec0 to ban him so he is not tempted to check the boards

Maybe he has to study for a test.

Yup.

Even though I'm not a mod LOL

But, yea he asked for a temporary ban.

 

[soap]

You can input the fastfall first off a fullhop and still grab the edge fairly easily. I do that sometimes after a fullhop fair off stage to get to the edge quicker.


But the way described above is the right way

Im curious to test the short hop fastfall first version now

 

[Gea]

Hardest parts really are jumping offstage far enough that you actually are offstage since Sheik's momentum is kinda low in the air and not hitting L/R too fast, you gotta see the needle animation first.

 

[Salevits]

I'm considering a Peach counter (I play PAL)

I don't want it to be Fox.

It would be nice if it made Puff a little more enjoyable as well..

 

[Xyzz]

If you're aiming to defeat good Peaches: CF
If you're not so hot sauce for now, and are happy with defeating people around your skill-level: Marth.

CF has the advantage of actually winning the match up (he's better against her than Fox actually), but takes a fair amount of skill before that happens and kinda gets scrapped at lower levels. Marth destroys Peach at lower levels, but the match up is actually pretty even at kinda high levels of play.
Marth might be a decent choice anyways though, because (I think) he's pretty even against Puff as well, while CF loses to her edge guard ability.
(Falco at the very least goes even against both as well, so if Fox isn't your cup of tea, but you might give him a shot, too)

edit: also if you feel like it, Puff is realllllyyy good against Peach (might be the most uneven match up inside the top8). And the ditto is obviously even
edit2: also, I think the match up is super doable in PAL as well, so I'd just stick with Sheik

 

[soap]

I'd recommend Sheik, but Pal obviously changes things

 

[Salevits]

I think i'm going into a wrong direction with the Falcon MU..

Can someone (who thinks they **** that MU) tell me what that MU is about for them.. Like even just basic stuff..

 

[Xyzz]

Sheik vs Falcon?

- Be very careful about the times you jump. You can usually just stay grounded, because your ground moveset is really good against him (especially ftilt imo), and jumping is kinda dangerous because CF up air is monstrously good. Fair / bair are still pretty good, just be sure he can't sneak below it.
- grab. Well, duh, we all have seen Tope tech chase people to death, so yeah... practice that. Although we poor PAL players have it a lot harder; I personally can't react to full DI away > tech roll away. If you can do, props to you. If I expect those I just dash along with him and grab afterwards, for anything else I WD towards him > react to everything else.
- You can dash dance avoid Falcon approaches and grab afterwards (or dash attack which leads to good combos)... and he will have to engage most of the time if you just throw needles at him or close off his space.

That's pretty much what I do (not that my Sheik was too good, but I'm fairly sure that's the basic idea of the match up).

 

[Teczer0]

Good seeing KK again at RoM.

He's still beasting in tourney of anyone is still watching the RoM stream.

I just lost I'm so bad now :<

 

[Doser]

Dear KK,

Stop losing to M2k, and don't mess around in WF it hurts the community when top players disrespect the tournament.

 

[Wenbobular]

There was all sorts of bad at ROM5 ... Cyrain playing his teammate round 1 or some jank + many other instances of ****ty seeding

People should stop jumping on them for this -_-

 

[Tope]

sheik vs falcon -

sheik should like never be in the air unless he goes first otherwise you're asking to be uaired kneed or whatever.

honestly she can win just by running and ducking... ducking destroys like his entire game.

Duck, Tilt, Grab WIN!

 

[Tope]

Good seeing KK again at RoM.

He's still beasting in tourney of anyone is still watching the RoM stream.

I just lost I'm so bad now :<

It's okay bro, I'm bet I'm worse :D

 

[Doser]

There was all sorts of bad at ROM5 ... Cyrain playing his teammate round 1 or some jank + many other instances of ****ty seeding

People should stop jumping on them for this -_-

What does that have to do with him jacking around in WF? It's basically mocking the tournament, I don't care how much you love him what he did was messed up.

 

[soap]

KK u still ma boy

But I confess myself dissapointed

Sheik should have won this

 

[Smooth Criminal]

KK u still ma boy

But I confess myself dissapointed

Sheik should have won this

This.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

So... yeah. Not sure how to break this to you but I'm done with the boards.

Only reason I'm unbanned is because I need to participate in the ROM5 discussions in the backroom. And because a lot of the talks directly pertain to me, so being totally silent is probably an unwise decision.

Henceforth, the MU thread update is postponed indefinitely and I'm not going to be answering questions here anymore.

I'm sorry. I really am. I'm just tired of everything. You guys have been great.

I'm contactable on FB and AIM still. But I'm basically cutting off my public services.


edit:

sheik vs falcon -

sheik should like never be in the air unless he goes first otherwise you're asking to be uaired kneed or whatever.

honestly she can win just by running and ducking... ducking destroys like his entire game.

Duck, Tilt, Grab WIN!

My final contribution to this board. Since I should leave you a parting gift. I think I have gotten a bit closer to overcoming my Falcon weakness. So I will share with you a bit of the new anti-Falcon strat.

Tope's little excerpt is partially correct. That said, the air is actually very good against him - even when going first. However, you have to do it a certain way. The ground is better on defense (or when you're staggered) because of the aforementioned crouch and tilt.

Oh and using bair requires a setup. Bair is good though.

 

[Purpletuce]

What are the backroom Rom5 discussions about? Also, been great learning from you, hope you come back.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The MBR discussions about this are largely regarding the legality of certain things and some other red tape.

Not saying anything else.

 

[Purpletuce]

Sounds scary. Best of luck, know that you've changed a lot of players' smash experiences for the better.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Like I said, you have all been great. Even bubbaking has been okay for the most part.

I'm just fed up with the direction the community is going.

Good luck.

 

[bubbaking]

Wooooaaah, wait a sec. KK's leaving?

Edit: Well, the best to you man. Hopefully you come to terms with whatever, or whoever, is bugging you. Good job at RoM, btw.

Hardest parts really are jumping offstage far enough that you actually are offstage since Sheik's momentum is kinda low in the air and not hitting L/R too fast, you gotta see the needle animation first.

Yeah, whenever I try to do RNC's too fast, I often end up getting the chain.

I'm considering a Peach counter (I play PAL)

I don't want it to be Fox.

It would be nice if it made Puff a little more enjoyable as well..

If you're aiming to defeat good Peaches: CF
If you're not so hot sauce for now, and are happy with defeating people around your skill-level: Marth.

CF has the advantage of actually winning the match up (he's better against her than Fox actually), but takes a fair amount of skill before that happens and kinda gets scrapped at lower levels. Marth destroys Peach at lower levels, but the match up is actually pretty even at kinda high levels of play.
Marth might be a decent choice anyways though, because (I think) he's pretty even against Puff as well, while CF loses to her edge guard ability.
(Falco at the very least goes even against both as well, so if Fox isn't your cup of tea, but you might give him a shot, too)

edit: also if you feel like it, Puff is realllllyyy good against Peach (might be the most uneven match up inside the top8). And the ditto is obviously even
edit2: also, I think the match up is super doable in PAL as well, so I'd just stick with Sheik

That's funny. I always felt like it was the exact opposite. At higher levels, Marth does better against Peach than Falcon does. I mean, I know he's the best Peach, but look at Armada's sets against Falcons. At Apex 2012, he really steamrolled Hax. I always felt that Marth could do better 'cause he has more disjoint and he can also edgeguard Peach much better. Also, he can play large portions of matches off of just uthrow/utilt > react to whatever opponent does to try to get back to the ground. All the Peaches on the Peach boards also say that Marth has a definite solid advantage in that MU.

I think i'm going into a wrong direction with the Falcon MU..

Can someone (who thinks they **** that MU) tell me what that MU is about for them.. Like even just basic stuff..

Sheik vs Falcon?

- Be very careful about the times you jump. You can usually just stay grounded, because your ground moveset is really good against him (especially ftilt imo), and jumping is kinda dangerous because CF up air is monstrously good. Fair / bair are still pretty good, just be sure he can't sneak below it.
- grab. Well, duh, we all have seen Tope tech chase people to death, so yeah... practice that. Although we poor PAL players have it a lot harder; I personally can't react to full DI away > tech roll away. If you can do, props to you. If I expect those I just dash along with him and grab afterwards, for anything else I WD towards him > react to everything else.
- You can dash dance avoid Falcon approaches and grab afterwards (or dash attack which leads to good combos)... and he will have to engage most of the time if you just throw needles at him or close off his space.

That's pretty much what I do (not that my Sheik was too good, but I'm fairly sure that's the basic idea of the match up).

Abuse your crouch. Sheik's unnaturally low crouch can duck under Falcon's grab and a bunch of his aerials. You fair his shield, crouch right in front of him and punish his OoS action. You ftilt his shield, you crouch. Sheik's crouch really messes up Falcon.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Well, there goes my reason for checking smashboards. Bye everyone!

 

[soap]

oy, sad to see you go David

thank you for all the insight over the years


I may have to take you up on that AIM offer sometime tho. After nearly a 2 year hiatus I am back into melee more than ever and can feel myself actively improving again. I could use your sounding board services from time to time. Only if you want to tho. If you need a total break it is understandable.

hope to see you at apex

 

[Sweet™]

I need a new dad, now.

 

[Xyzz]

Sheik Crouch:
I like it a lot vs some characters (including CF) as well, dunno how it slipped past me to mention it. I've always kinda wanted to ask something about it: I'm 100% positive, that if you're too near him, CF can still grab you, even if you crouch. I however feel that I can evade his grab attempts by using dtilt / dsmash. Am I correct in thinking that she evades due to her hurtbox transformations during them, or am I just hitting before the grab is active?

KK: At least hang out in the Peach socia... uh, tactical thread... Gonna miss you

Well, there goes my reason for checking smashboards. Bye everyone!

Fine, other people don't care about you anyways, baaakaaa... *sniff* I just got something in my eye, ok?

 

[Jolteon]

KK: Thank you for any advice you have given me.

Good luck.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Take care, KK/David.

You might hear from me via AIM.

Smooth Criminal

 

[bubbaking]

Sheik Crouch:
I like it a lot vs some characters (including CF) as well, dunno how it slipped past me to mention it. I've always kinda wanted to ask something about it: I'm 100% positive, that if you're too near him, CF can still grab you, even if you crouch. I however feel that I can evade his grab attempts by using dtilt / dsmash. Am I correct in thinking that she evades due to her hurtbox transformations during them, or am I just hitting before the grab is active?

I can't really speak too much for CF, but I do know for other characters, such as Sheik (), the spacing does matter. Sheik can grab her crouching self at some distances but not at others. However, that's why you space your attacks on his shield. About evading grabs with tilts and smashes, I'm not really sure why that is either. It could be the hurtbox transformations, but it could also just be the that the attack is hitting before the grab comes out, since all grabs come out on or after frame 7 and both dtilt and dsmash hit on frame 5. In the case of dsmash, her legs are also invincible on frame 5, so that would go even further towards explaining why you don't get grabbed when you dsmash.

 

[cannedbread]

rip kk

i'll miss reading your posts with a deadpan snarky voice in my head

 

[-RedShadow]

The only person who's ever critiqued me at least half-decently is leaving? T_T

 

[Ripple]

KK really needs to explain what he means by "I don't like the way the community is headed".

because to me, it seems like he is saying " I don't like how I'm supposed to try in WFs at a national tournament or how people got mad at my friend for playing friendlies in GFs"

if he wants a community where that is totally accepted by everyone including stream monsters, I'm glad he's leaving

 

[Smooth Criminal]

There's probably more to the situation than meets the eye, Ripple. At least, for KK anyway. Probably a lot of **** compounding together.

Don't assume what you don't know.

Smooth Criminal

 

[cannedbread]

maybe it's about the evo thing. i dunno js

 

[soap]

KK really needs to explain what he means by "I don't like the way the community is headed".

because to me, it seems like he is saying " I don't like how I'm supposed to try in WFs at a national tournament or how people got mad at my friend for playing friendlies in GFs"

if he wants a community where that is totally accepted by everyone including stream monsters, I'm glad he's leaving

I actually would like some clarification on what he is referring to as well.


I read an apology by unknown and I'm already over it. This is not such a big deal that you can't just own up to it and move on.

If he needs a break tho he needs a break

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

Sheik CC is amazing. I usually hold it as a default and will only let go if i see a stomp