Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Xyzz]

Nah, Toph. All low tier mains think that; Samus is a low tier, so nothing new there

 

[bubbaking]

Wait a sec, you're from Germany! Isn't Samus, like, High Tier over there?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

No, Samus is ***.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Purpletuce]

A low tier main presents:
The Low Tier Main Delusion:

I like my character, so I want them to be good.

I try to convince myself my character is good, in order to justify using them.

I whine about how they are bad when I lose.

I let myself believe that I am a better player, but I'm limited by my character.

I pretend to be the next Mango.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

Solid spacing and zoning gets you places as sheik.

For everyone that's not KK, you guys should work on that. It's something that can always be improved.

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry bud, but I fit very few of those criteria. I do like my char and want her to be good, but I'm not trying to convince myself that Samus is good, just to justify using her. I sincerely believe that she is, but even if she wasn't, I chose to play Samus because she was FUN for me. I mean, I used to be a Sheik main for heaven's sake! I don't think I could delude myself that Samus is uncharacteristically exellent as a character when I used to have all that. When I lose, I blame myself. Hey, what can I say? I'm a scrub. I'm probably not the next Mango, and I'm probably limiting my character more than she's limiting me. All that being said, Samus isn't a Low Tier char, she's an Upper Mid Tier char.

 

[Purpletuce]

I used to be a Marth/Falco. Lawl. I play mainly for fun though, I'm not trying to make money out of it or anything.

 

[soap]

Get up attack comes out frame 17 in the most cases (at least in PAL I think Falco tends to land on his back most of the time, and you are in front of him in a tech chase situation, so that is the hit box that's relevant most of the time), so if you're confident you can get up your shield before that, you can shield grab them on reaction. I personally hate discerning between get up attack and regular getup, so I'd rather avoid having to react to that (I'll usually go for a dtilt if I call a missed tech, but I'm not sure how good that actually is).
Discerning tech stand vs rolls is faaar easier because of the movement and stuff (also they don't automatically hit you if you misinterpret :D)
If you care for more frame things concerning the get up options of people, there's an awesome post by the god of frames himself: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206469

how about that, sheiks throws are not affected by weight. that is pretty ****

 

[KirbyKaze]

Solid spacing and zoning gets you places as sheik.

For everyone that's not KK, you guys should work on that. It's something that can always be improved.

Yeah basically.

You missed punishment btw.

And I can work on zoning & spacing. I could improve that. I don't play Sheik anywhere near her limit.

 

[soap]

just comboing this cpu fox around a lil bit. started replacing dair chains with dash cancelled up tilts. It's pretty fun

 

[S l o X]

samus is op

 

[bubbaking]

Someone couldn't figure out how to beat CC.....

 

[strawhats]

Yeah basically.

You missed punishment btw.

And I can work on zoning & spacing. I could improve that. I don't play Sheik anywhere near her limit.

Then again who does, even at the highest levels of play? Amsah?M2K? Over? each of you bring a set of fundamental skills to the sheik metagame that works to flesh out her already amazing combo tree, tech chase ground game, OoS game, and overall punishment game.

Now that you've mentioned it, I wonder what the perfect sheik looks like...Inb4 someone links me to the EpicSpicy AR sheik vs marth set. lol
Good luck at RoM btw.

 

[soap]

yo let's talk platform trapping and shield pressure

you got em in their shield on the battlefield side platform, you are in the center on the ground

come under? from the side? maybe a needle setup off the top platform?

what is your general first move and the followup

I realize the vast options and the variables, I'd just like some general input outside of my little box of thought

 

[bubbaking]

I like to continually SH under the opponent and poke at him with aerials. If they stay on the plat but try to run off it, I cover the edges with FH fairs and bairs to make the opponent miserable for choosing to stay there. I basically try to flaunt how scary Sheik is when you're above her. Sometimes, I'll mix it up with WL grab, but I generally like to stay under the opponent, poking at him while covering the edges if he tries to escape.

 

[joejoe22802]

Soap *****. Also wow thats very hard soap. Why the hell would they be shielding in the first place? I feel like that changes everything.

But assuming they were I would probably just do a rising spaced bair. most people won't be able to shield drop so i wouldnt be worried about the bottom platform.

Second to this I would just do an instant glue to the platform jump landing behind them so i could turn around grab them or react if they do an OOS shield (which who probably be a jump or wdash...)

Also I have a hard time trapping my opponents with zoning. from the middle of the stage. I'm alright if they're cornered but if not i usually just do defensive movement to bait an attack. Any ideas on how I could speed things up if they have center stage?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Only trick to that situation is to not heavily commit with your aerial. Rising aerial is tempting but if one hits their shield, because of your hang time they get a free out. The shield is usually a bait in that situation to try and draw fire so they can get an escape in some direction. You can, of course, guide their direction by controlling specific pathways but - again - there's also not much reason to commit heavily when you aerial even if you're doing it that way and safety can enhance the threat of pressure anyway.

In terms of a breakdown, I'd say you have three main options (with a bazillion permutations). Counter-bait, fish for an action OOS, or do something ballsy like WL grab to punish them for staying on. Beyond those three broad categories, you have too many options to list so I won't try. From what I gave you, you should be able to slim it down though.

My two cents.

 

[Jolteon]

samus sucks

edit: I think baiting shield drops is really good (I like late aerial -> utilt a lot), apart from that I think stopping them from taking stage control is really good. I also play against a lot of people who will shield di off of a platform if you bair/fair them, a good way to counter that is to just jump into their shield without an aerial and then punish their fall.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Baiting shield drops is only good against people who can shield drop.

... >_>

England sounds like a technical place.

edit: Btw say hi to Frugs for me.

 

[Jolteon]

Yeah that's true. Not many people do it here either though, including the tech heads. It's just that I play against people that do it a lot. >.>

Also, will do!

 

[omgwtfToph]

Btw, did you play The Prime when he went over there? Andy? I think he said he lost to Prof twice so he must've made it pretty far in bracket. That guy was my roommate for 2 years LOL.

 

[Jolteon]

Yeah I did, he knocked me out. Our top 3 players are a lot better than the rest of us. I'll be ready for him next time though

 

[omgwtfToph]

Who's 3rd after Fuzzy and Prof?

Sorry to all the Sheiks for this English tangent. I hope you guys don't mind.

 

[Jolteon]

VA is 2nd and Prof is 3rd. VA never comes to our events anymore though so I usually get 3rd place. >.> But, he still travels.

 

[bubbaking]

I think baiting shield drops is really good (I like late aerial -> utilt a lot), apart from that I think stopping them from taking stage control is really good. I also play against a lot of people who will shield di off of a platform if you bair/fair them, a good way to counter that is to just jump into their shield without an aerial and then punish their fall.

You can push them off by just jumping into them?

 

[Jolteon]

You can push them off by just jumping into them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsUIEOXfKX8

 

[bubbaking]

You made a YT vid just for me? I'm honored.

Thanks, though, now I see what you're talking about.

 

[joejoe22802]

Wtf how do you Sh FF first nair. Soap I can't get the timin down I always dair..

 

[bubbaking]

Just flick down at the peak of your jump. You don't have to hold it.

Edit: It would probably help to get a better idea of when exactly during your SH you can FF. Once you know exactly when you've hit the peak of your SH, you can just flick down and perform these maneuvers with ease. Perhaps you should try SHFFing (without attacking) over and over while slightly adjusting the timing of your FF. Fiddle around with it and see how early you can FF.

/2 cents

 

[soap]

I very lightly tap down and release. That way it releases back to neutral quicker.

Practice fastfalling needle charges. It is literally the same timing (and useful in its own right)

I wouldnt give up easily. Those nairs are really helping me out.

Its like fair and ftilt for my long range game, nair and utilt up close

 

[soap]

U dont have to move the stick all the way down to fastfall either

Think about like, dtilting on a platform without falling thru




I've got it down to like 95% success rate

If you do dair by accident in a fight, keep in mind the first few frames autocancel so you can still maybe guard yourself with something like tilt or jab

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

someone make me a combo video

 

[scarykid78]

KK got banned? Anyone know why?

 

[bubbaking]

(O_o) Really???

 

[soap]

He's always randomly asking tec0 to ban him so he is not tempted to check the boards

Maybe he has to study for a test.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

He's taking a week long break to study. Also the boards have been annoying him lately

 

[bubbaking]

'Cause we talk on it.....

 

[joejoe22802]

Nah he likes Toph, Soap, Joe, and TaFO

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I'm forced to come to the conclusion that I'm doing the needle turnaround fastfall edgehog wrong. Anyone care to inform me of the correct way? Just the button inputs basically so that you don't lose momentum. cough soap

 

[soap]

if you end up on the ledge you are probably doing it right