Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[bubbaking]

I believe shiek vs peach is 55-45 shiek

do you agree?

This was brought up on the Peach boards. Ben Grimm started it by saying that he felt like the MU was not that bad for Peach, disadvantageous but only slightly. I'm pretty sure some notable Sheiks, including KK, responded by saying it was better than that for Sheik, but then Armada chipped in and kinda agreed with Ben, saying that it's really not that bad for Peach. I guess 55:45-60:40 is an accurate label for it.

Edit: A +1 for Sheik, if you're going by that newfangled MU value system.

 

[Xyzz]

Sheik vs Peach is 60 - 40 in ntsc, 45 - 55 pal.

Reliable stuff (kills at high, combos at low percent) of grab is huge.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Edit: A +1 for Sheik, if you're going by that newfangled MU value system.

Keep Brawl discussion out of the thread, plz.

Smooth Criminal

 

[bubbaking]

It's not Brawl. Lolz!

 

[Purpletuce]

That list is really bad. Like. . . painful.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So everyone knows that percent where you can dthrow->dsmash spacies (120ish, idk id di dependent) can you just cg that? I always forget to try

d-throw > jab > jab > jab > jab > d-smash is better

 

[Spife]

d-throw > jab > jab > jab > jab > d-smash is better

does that ever work?
Also how do I extend my combos without viagra? I just don't have the same staying power like I use too

 

[bubbaking]

Spife, did you ever play Super Dungeon Explore? Just wondering from your sig pic.....

 

[Spife]

nah man, that's eqoa, an mmo for the ps2 that lasted from 2003-2012, it's (was?) one of my favorite games.

 

[soap]

I used to wavedash jab a friends roy across fd at killing percents.

what are some other lulzy sheik combos out there?

 

[bubbaking]

Would dtilt > dtilt > dtilt work? I do it as Samus, and even though Sheik's dtilt is a bit weaker of a launcher, I still feel that it would work similarly, albeit at higher %'s.

 

[Purpletuce]

Yes, because it works for Samus, it works for Sheik, as they are both female characters with names starting with 'S'.

The other day with my Yoshi I was L-cancelling D-air into DownB, because Fox can do it, why not Yoshi?

Oh wait. . . they can have different trajectories, knockback growth, starting knockback, knockback type, damage, move start time, move end time and hitboxes. I forgot what 'different characters' meant. Oops.

 

[bubbaking]

You're sounding ********. Both Sheik and Sonic have dtilts that launch the opponent upwards for follow-ups. Samus can do dtilt > dtilt at low to mid %'s. I was simply asking if Sheik can do the same, even though the move is slightly weaker. What's wrong with you?

Edit: And you really sound ridiculous right here. The moves are similar enough that they could be used in similar applications. They have similar trajectories, their KB is similar enough that the moves combo into the same crap at all %'s, I don't care about damage, and they both start and end pretty quickly for follow-ups. They're obviously different characters; I was simply asking if their moves that seem to have similar properties could be used in similar ways. You're making it sound like Falcon can't use his utilt for edgeguarding or finishing combos, just because he's a much different character from Samus.

 

[Jolteon]

Reverse hit utilt combos <3

 

[bubbaking]

Nope, don't work. Spacees can do that. Last time I checked, Sheik isn't a spacee. Therefore, it don't work.

Edit: Assuming by "reverse hit' you mean facing backwards.

 

[Gea]

I am determined to get up B ledgecancels down to be an accurate, viable option. It seems within reach

 

[Jolteon]

Nope, don't work. Spacees can do that. Last time I checked, Sheik isn't a spacee. Therefore, it don't work.

Edit: Assuming by "reverse hit' you mean facing backwards.

Sheik's hitboxes are pretty good.

@Gea: Let me know how it goes, I tried to do it before but I couldn't get it down.

 

[bubbaking]

Don't worry Jolteon, I was just doing some subtle trolling (not directed at you). I actually had no disagreement whatsoever with your statement, but upon seeing that GIF.......wow, those are some good hitboxes. Is it possible (and feasible) to hit people behind Sheik with the very last portion of the attack?

I am determined to get up B ledgecancels down to be an accurate, viable option. It seems within reach

You mean as a recovery?

 

[Gea]

Well, more like an option to get from the ledge to the stage safely. It would be possible as a recovery as well (especially out of a walljump), but way easier to get stuffed if they already have the edge just because you would start in prime bair-space, so to speak. If I get the former down, I think the latter would be an extension of that, yes.

 

[Jolteon]

Don't worry Jolteon, I was just doing some subtle trolling (not directed at you). I actually had no disagreement whatsoever with your statement, but upon seeing that GIF.......wow, those are some good hitboxes. Is it possible (and feasible) to hit people behind Sheik with the very last portion of the attack?



You mean as a recovery?

But my trolldar is foolproof. ;_;

Yeah you can hit them with the last leg sweep she does.

http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/340582785

I do it in this video at the start around the 2 minute mark when waiting for Fuzzy, I also remember doing it to him a few times in this video if you want to see a non-CPU example, I just don't remember where.

Also, Sheik's last hit dsmash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JE0x7w2iYU&t=4m30s

 

[bubbaking]

Well, more like an option to get from the ledge to the stage safely. It would be possible as a recovery as well (especially out of a walljump), but way easier to get stuffed if they already have the edge just because you would start in prime bair-space, so to speak. If I get the former down, I think the latter would be an extension of that, yes.

Sorry, I'm still a bit confused (as usual ). Sorry, could you explain this in detail? Do you upB upwards onto the stage and then pull back so that you slide off of the ledge to ledgecancel it? Or are you doing this off of a platform. If it's the latter, then I think I know what may been the source of my confusion.....

Yeah you can hit them with the last leg sweep she does.

http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/340582785

I do it in this video at the start around the 2 minute mark when waiting for Fuzzy, I also remember doing it to him a few times in this video if you want to see a non-CPU example, I just don't remember where.

Ah, I see how it works now. That's pretty cool. I've never gone for backwards utilts like that.

 

[Gea]

Off of a platform. As far as I know, you have to be facing the edge with her upB to cancel it properly. As in land facing the way you want to cancel. Sorry if I was unclear.

This is what I am talking about

 

[soap]

I'll try and get those upb cancels down

I need to look for more reverse utilt opportunities too. that hitbox has got to have the least downtime in this game

 

[KirbyKaze]

I should work on up+B edgecancel. You don't really lose much for going for it but the payoff is potentially ridic.

 

[bubbaking]

Off of a platform. As far as I know, you have to be facing the edge with her upB to cancel it properly. As in land facing the way you want to cancel. Sorry if I was unclear.

This is what I am talking about

Oooooohhhhhh, ok, I see what you're talking about now. I actually think I've seen that vid before. Thanks for clarifying it for me!

Edit: I think it was KK who showed it to me, actually.....

 

[KirbyKaze]

Would dtilt > dtilt > dtilt work? I do it as Samus, and even though Sheik's dtilt is a bit weaker of a launcher, I still feel that it would work similarly, albeit at higher %'s.

Turn on a gamecube.

Yes, because it works for Samus, it works for Sheik, as they are both female characters with names starting with 'S'.

The other day with my Yoshi I was L-cancelling D-air into DownB, because Fox can do it, why not Yoshi?

Oh wait. . . they can have different trajectories, knockback growth, starting knockback, knockback type, damage, move start time, move end time and hitboxes. I forgot what 'different characters' meant. Oops.

This is the dumbest post I've ever seen.

I used to wavedash jab a friends roy across fd at killing percents.

what are some other lulzy sheik combos out there?

Attack > f-smash > anything

does that ever work?
Also how do I extend my combos without viagra? I just don't have the same staying power like I use too

I suggest progenitorivox.

 

[bubbaking]

The reason I asked is because I literally don't have a gamecube at the moment.

Oh man, the end of that video reminded me. What if Sheiks could consistently edgecancel into teeter instead of falling off the plat? That would open up a road to soooo many interesting tricks and setups! ^_^

 

[omgwtfToph]

I suggest epimedium, also known as horny goat weed. Not from experience, but I've heard that it's like viagra on, well, viagra.

So I once edgecanceled Sheik's recovery up-B on the tiny lip near the right side of the rock transformation of Pokemon Stadium. The left edge of the gray concrete section. I wasn't particularly high up in the air so it's not like I had a chance to maneuver to the side on my way down. I still don't really understand the mechanics of how it works. Can Sheik edgecancel the up-B fall without horizontal momentum just from the way her body (i.e. landing detection points or whatever) contorts as she falls from the initial poof?

edit: lol that last sentence is quite a sentence

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think KK's posting style is rubbing off on you, Toph.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sweet™]

If a spacie is going for the ledge and you dont have time for a rising nair, you can sometimes hit them with that first poof from her UpB, grab the ledge, then bair. I might have a video where I did that...



EDIT: Nvm. I'm not that good to have ample recorded matches. I can do it in friendlies, though. It's easiest against Captain Falcon, but there's obviously safer edgeguarding techniques.

 

[bubbaking]

Instead of going for rising nair, I like to go for rising bair. Seems to be more lenient for me and it usually knocks them further away from the stage.

#PersonalPreferences.

 

[soap]

If I cant get the edgehog, I dsmash

 

[Gea]

Can Sheik edgecancel the up-B fall without horizontal momentum just from the way her body (i.e. landing detection points or whatever) contorts as she falls from the initial poof?

Almost 100% positive that she cannot. As in if you do a grounded one to the edge exactly, you won't have enough momentum to actually cancel it, even if you are so close to the edge that any step forward will make you fall off afterward.

However, if you are in the air at all it is feasible that you can get enough from falling to slide off. For this reason I am also pretty sure you can't do one backwards (as in up B downwards into the edge and fall off to grab the edge) if that is what you were planning. Edit: If you do one straight down and have it end RIGHT before you hit the ground and hold backwards you can slide off and grab the edge. From what I can tell the applications of that are useless, and no platforms are high enough/positioned correctly to let you vanish through them and ledgecancel (would be a flashy OoS platform escape option if it were feasible, but alas. I think platform dropping would still be better anyways. Plus unless you do one straight down they turn you around and you would then be offstage with your back to the stage.)

Edit: Actually on stadium you can up B from the platforms on the neutral stage and the water stage and cancel it by going offstage, but of course the spacing isn't that easy. You can also do it on say, the top platform of BF to the lower ones or to the edge. In fact, the easiest way to do this at all is to get on the top platform of BF, roll/walk to the edge, take a step inwards then up B grounded straight out and hold towards the edge of the stage. You will go past the lower platforms, hit the ground and slide off if you do it correctly. It's a bit slow but great to understand the kind of landing spacing you need. If you take half a step farther you will cancel it on the edge of the lower platform instead. You can also do this on dreamland by being at the VERY edge of the top platform and going straight out. I think you can go from the bottom ones to the edge but whispy makes the risk way more than it should be for the reward. You can go from the top platform to the edge out of a dash if you up B at the absolute edge of the top platform. If you get the double explosion you did it too late.

In general for this, the higher up you are, the less precise you have to be as you will get more momentum when falling, but also the slower it will be since you have to fall.

Like I said, I may be wrong because these are kinda tricky to do, but I just spent 5 minutes on FD doing grounded ones into the ledge with no luck canceling them. Plus I am pretty sure that if you appear on the ground, you appear with no momentum, making the cancel impossible unless the up B ends with you barely still in the air.

 

[Wenbobular]

I feel like I've landed on the ledge with no lag before

 

[Spife]

I want to sheik ditto mm all of you going to apex. im wicked *** at the mu and i need practice
Srsly just get in a line and run a train (of needles) on me or something



EDIT: still working on a write up on that swag vid, will post later

 

[bubbaking]

Wenbobular, did you go into the teeter animation? That would still be an edgecancel; you just didn't slip. IMO, that kind of edgecancel is actually more useful, if you can recognize it...

 

[Wenbobular]

Maybe? I don't really play Sheik

I certainly didn't fall off the ledge if that's what you're getting at

 

[bubbaking]

Almost 100% positive that she cannot. As in if you do a grounded one to the edge exactly, you won't have enough momentum to actually cancel it, even if you are so close to the edge that any step forward will make you fall off afterward.

However, if you are in the air at all it is feasible that you can get enough from falling to slide off.

So if you want to ledgecancel a grounded upB from onstage, you need to aim it slightly diagonally upwards so that you end up in the air just above the ledge? Sounds tricky.....and risky...

For this reason I am also pretty sure you can't do one backwards (as in up B downwards into the edge and fall off to grab the edge) if that is what you were planning. Edit: If you do one straight down and have it end RIGHT before you hit the ground and hold backwards you can slide off and grab the edge. From what I can tell the applications of that are useless, and no platforms are high enough/positioned correctly to let you vanish through them and ledgecancel (would be a flashy OoS platform escape option if it were feasible, but alas. I think platform dropping would still be better anyways. Plus unless you do one straight down they turn you around and you would then be offstage with your back to the stage.)

Well, if you really want to edgehog in a flashy manner from platforms, on YS, you can just do a grounded upB downward straight onto the ledge (just like you'd do a normal vanish stall; let go of down when you 'poof').

Edit: I often do the same thing by accident while vanish stalling by going too high or accidentally DJing when I initially upB. The aerial upB kinda transitions into a grounded one for some reason....

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm going to figure out this witchcraft so I'm never edgeguarded in the specific situations where I can set it up without being hit out of startup again

 

[Gea]

So if you want to ledgecancel a grounded upB from onstage, you need to aim it slightly diagonally upwards so that you end up in the air just above the ledge? Sounds tricky.....and risky...

In theory this is the case, yes. In practice it is slower than doing anything else. I can see some practical application for upB OoS from the top platforms if someone is going to waveland grab but you don't want to risk the aerial and you are where they can be canceled. It is actually pretty easy to learn where you need to be for these to work from the top.

From the edge to the platforms is a bit more tricky. I have more success lining up a vanish and attempting to go straight than trying to go high and angle downwards. That is also what they generally do in that video. Also be careful on Dreamland because I *think* whispy can affect your chance if he is blowing.