S l o X
Smash Champion
YES CHICKN MONKEY PLAY MELEE I WILL TEACH YOU SHEIk
allcaps
apex 2013: ft wenbo triple elim
allcaps
apex 2013: ft wenbo triple elim
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
ChicknMonkey
Smash Apprentice
I'd be honored Slox. You, me, bolt, and my other friend (not on smashboards) need to get together.
I do have some questions for the thread though.
1- I've been edge-guarded countless times by captn's reverse knee hitbox. Ive been fooling around and the same can be done with sheik's fair. Is it a viable option for edge-guarding or is it sub-par because it pales in comparison in priority to the knee?
2- Is there a difinitive guide to gimping with sheik anywhere? If not it would be cool to see one made. Like gimp techniques for each match-up and how to do it, ect.
EDIT: In case there is a guide, I didn't look very hard...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
The only person who really understands Sheik's gimping at a super deep level is M2K.
Good luck getting him to explain it.
I'm bad at gimping.
Good luck getting him to explain it.
I'm bad at gimping.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
1) Captains reverse knee has next to no priority, same goes for Sheik reverse fair. Go for them if you don't need the better priority of bair but can put the better knockback / angle to good use or just want the general style-factor 
2) Hit them with bair, repeat. Alternatively watch lots of M2k matches. JK, I would be kinda interested in that as well
2) Hit them with bair, repeat. Alternatively watch lots of M2k matches. JK, I would be kinda interested in that as well
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Sourspot bair ----> sweetspot bair right off the ledge to intercept the inevitable double jump/b-recovery is pretty good. It's usually enough to KO since by then a high enough percentage is accrued, especially against the likes of Falcon and other characters around that weight.
Hell, bair is really good for edgeguarding, period. So are needles, but I usually played scrubs that didn't alter their trajectory on recovery or DI the needles. I dunno.
Smooth Criminal
Hell, bair is really good for edgeguarding, period. So are needles, but I usually played scrubs that didn't alter their trajectory on recovery or DI the needles. I dunno.
Smooth Criminal
ChicknMonkey
Smash Apprentice
Thanks for the answers guys.
Is there ever a time when nair is better than bair, like when your close to the edge or something, or is it all just situation? Sometimes that nair hitbox can be pretty weird. But then again, we are talking about sheik here...
holy poop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLNE4-1nkI
Is there ever a time when nair is better than bair, like when your close to the edge or something, or is it all just situation? Sometimes that nair hitbox can be pretty weird. But then again, we are talking about sheik here...
holy poop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLNE4-1nkI
soap
Smash Hero
reverse fair can have good priority on top of her
also I'd say in general, reverse nair > close range bair
also I'd say in general, reverse nair > close range bair
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
I'm not sure if you guys will believe me, but an extremely technical Sheik player in Japan named Flash (who's probably 2nd over there now) is the 2nd-best edgeguarding Sheik I've played. Then again, when I played Tope he was rusty. So there's that.
soap
Smash Hero
those nair fairs are pretty nice, I wanna see what he does against spacies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cg0nVxENSM
I love Mach Dash too man, such a clown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cg0nVxENSM
I love Mach Dash too man, such a clown
leffen
Smash Champion
I've played Tope,Over, Mew2King, Ice and Amsah and out of all Over is imo the best one (at least against spacies) at edgeguarding and m2k's second. Over is also by far the best one at recovering... that said his neutral game is definitely lacking.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Oh yeah I haven't played Over.
unknown522
Some guy
Over didn't want to play me at pound 5 cuz he said that he would get ***** :/
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
i housed him during p5 and he tapped me so hard in our friendlies -.-
then again ive only played for a few months then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkHA1eK2uhk
then again ive only played for a few months then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i0PBih94Po 1:43 lool (more edgeguarding stuff in 2nd match)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkHA1eK2uhk
Beat!
Smash Master
Over's edgeguarding is disgusting.
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
i like to wd back off stage weak bear then dj strong bair fire fox
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Offstage Nair into fair against CF looks super fun, guess I'll go fooling around with that :D
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
i am in school..
we have theese things called proxys that alow us to go to blocked sites
like this one
https://www.sslunblocker.com/
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I suck at gimping.
I think I have 3rd for edgeguarding with her if Over is really as good as everyone says (although my edgeguards are often just combo setups that they can't escape as a result of onstage landing lag, no DJ, or whatever - so this is controversial and debatable) but I think even Tope and Plank are better gimpers. Jolteon is probably a better gimper. Silly Kyle's Sheik can probably gimp better than mine. It's ridiculous.
:/
Fortunately, I can death combo, understand long term planning, can beat Jiggs with this character, and do my tech chases reactively vs FFers most of the time so it works out. And I have gayer defense strategies than anyone but M2K and goofier offense strategies. I also have tons of tech skill that I never use with this character but I think my nairs OOS are pretty damn close to perfect and I can CG at 0 after a minute warm up. Go me!
You guys should try u-smashing people when it's obvious they're gonna tech stand or non-tech. It's really good.
D-throw > jab > More jab (optional) > d-smash is my new thing when spacies DI behind me at 100%+ and then survival DI for the d-smash. It's adorable. Shouldn't work but who cares. Every jab you get after the first (so long as you still combo into d-smash) brings one year of shame to their family.
I think I have 3rd for edgeguarding with her if Over is really as good as everyone says (although my edgeguards are often just combo setups that they can't escape as a result of onstage landing lag, no DJ, or whatever - so this is controversial and debatable) but I think even Tope and Plank are better gimpers. Jolteon is probably a better gimper. Silly Kyle's Sheik can probably gimp better than mine. It's ridiculous.
:/
Fortunately, I can death combo, understand long term planning, can beat Jiggs with this character, and do my tech chases reactively vs FFers most of the time so it works out. And I have gayer defense strategies than anyone but M2K and goofier offense strategies. I also have tons of tech skill that I never use with this character but I think my nairs OOS are pretty damn close to perfect and I can CG at 0 after a minute warm up. Go me!
You guys should try u-smashing people when it's obvious they're gonna tech stand or non-tech. It's really good.
D-throw > jab > More jab (optional) > d-smash is my new thing when spacies DI behind me at 100%+ and then survival DI for the d-smash. It's adorable. Shouldn't work but who cares. Every jab you get after the first (so long as you still combo into d-smash) brings one year of shame to their family.
JOHNATHAN DOUGLASS CARROLL, YOU GO STUDY YOUR MULTIPLICATION TABLES RIGHT NOW BEFORE l TELL YOUR MOTHER!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Who are you, D20? >_>
Ok I know he was English but let's keep the parenting off my Sheik board kthanx.
Ok I know he was English but let's keep the parenting off my Sheik board kthanx.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
For some reason, I love it when you go for those pretty hard to do dthrow > uairs on floaties. Not completely related, but there it is.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
On the three super floaties (Puff, Luigi, Samus) it's a true combo on any DI at basically any percent (Samus isn't 0 but it's pretty low IIRC)
It's damn near strictly better than anything else in a lot of situations if you hit it unless you're putting them offstage or whatever
Sheik's uair is rapidly becoming one of my favourite combo moves and I think it's probably her 4th best behind grab, f-tilt, dash attack. It seriously does so much.
If I had to make one general critique of every Sheik below like... Silent Swag's level it's that they do really bad combos but it works out most of the time because Sheik is pick up and play. Not respecting the percents game would be close second. But anyway, when I watch them... I have no idea why they're picking the moves they're picking in their punish from a logical, "this is a good play that will lead to more damage" perspective. Vs good spacies you basically need them to die efficiently or else you lose. Sheik is super duper punishment heavy by nature. So then the noobSheiks get ***** because f-tilt doesn't work vs spacies until 24% and tech chasing off d-throw is hard so I guess spacies hard counter Sheik.
Damage, manipulation of trajectory, position and how it may affect their DI and combo break options, how easily edgeguarded will they be, how much time will I have to action after, etc. are all important things to take into consideration when making a follow. Don't just f-tilt after they pop up from dash attack because f-tilt is a good move. F-tilt is a great poke and is really predictable for its trajectory but it's rarely optimal when the combo setup basically lets you pick whatever move you want. Dair, regrab, dash attack, SH uair... there are so many amazing options people rarely use -.-
It's damn near strictly better than anything else in a lot of situations if you hit it unless you're putting them offstage or whatever
Sheik's uair is rapidly becoming one of my favourite combo moves and I think it's probably her 4th best behind grab, f-tilt, dash attack. It seriously does so much.
If I had to make one general critique of every Sheik below like... Silent Swag's level it's that they do really bad combos but it works out most of the time because Sheik is pick up and play. Not respecting the percents game would be close second. But anyway, when I watch them... I have no idea why they're picking the moves they're picking in their punish from a logical, "this is a good play that will lead to more damage" perspective. Vs good spacies you basically need them to die efficiently or else you lose. Sheik is super duper punishment heavy by nature. So then the noobSheiks get ***** because f-tilt doesn't work vs spacies until 24% and tech chasing off d-throw is hard so I guess spacies hard counter Sheik.
Damage, manipulation of trajectory, position and how it may affect their DI and combo break options, how easily edgeguarded will they be, how much time will I have to action after, etc. are all important things to take into consideration when making a follow. Don't just f-tilt after they pop up from dash attack because f-tilt is a good move. F-tilt is a great poke and is really predictable for its trajectory but it's rarely optimal when the combo setup basically lets you pick whatever move you want. Dair, regrab, dash attack, SH uair... there are so many amazing options people rarely use -.-
L__
Smash Master
i love up air kills as sheik
feels great
feels great
leffen
Smash Champion
Indeed, KK
Peoples punishment game is something that REALLY needs to step up, especially with Sheik but also with most other top tiers (Marth/Fox CG on FD for example lol)
Peoples punishment game is something that REALLY needs to step up, especially with Sheik but also with most other top tiers (Marth/Fox CG on FD for example lol)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Don't get me started on Foxes
I'll seriously go on for days
I'll seriously go on for days
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Yeah, in your set vs Vudu (and in general from watching you) I get the vibe that uair does so much for this character. It combos soooo well, and kills a good deal earlier than fair (I'd argue that it's a better follow than fair a lot of the time, but dthrow > fair is a lot easier to do, lol).
Yeah, watching you and Armada especially, you guys feel as though you know your punishment games as close to the max as you can, and I like it.
Also, what are you talking about? Uthrow > upsmash > upsmash > upsmash combos! It's obviously the best option!
Yeah, watching you and Armada especially, you guys feel as though you know your punishment games as close to the max as you can, and I like it.
Also, what are you talking about? Uthrow > upsmash > upsmash > upsmash combos! It's obviously the best option!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
How can I put this?
Air vs air exchanges are determined by range (which basically means how long your appendage is and how crudely they drew the red bubbles around it). Sheik has the most range in the game sans Marth and Ganon but her moves stay out forever (important for consistency) and hit more convenient places (important for practicality). They also kill, combo forever, or combo to a kill move (which is basically the same thing - just the first one takes less time and so forth). So, yeah. Airborne opponent is ideal in most MUs because Sheik's options are ******** against them (especially if they lack DJ or Purin quality combo break options). If you're smart there's really no problem with overextending with uairs (other characters can lose punishes for doing this but Sheik often benefits from it). They also can vertical kill so they can't afford to just keep eating them. They also link to fair because everything links to fair. I could say more, but that's the gist of it.
I could punish better in terms of efficiency and consistency (both technical and otherwise) but it's hard to be better than 1 hit = 1 stock. That said, I'm still working on it because I do fizzle a lot vs top level players -.-
I actually think I do some things badly because I really enjoy swagging on people with tipped u-smash so I feel my standard combos are sometimes flimsy. I need to work on tech chasing off stray hits better too... bah, enough of this. Uair is good. Tipped u-smash kills Peach out of throw before 70% (even though it doesn't combo legitimately). Sheik Peach is therefore 6-4 for Sheik.
Air vs air exchanges are determined by range (which basically means how long your appendage is and how crudely they drew the red bubbles around it). Sheik has the most range in the game sans Marth and Ganon but her moves stay out forever (important for consistency) and hit more convenient places (important for practicality). They also kill, combo forever, or combo to a kill move (which is basically the same thing - just the first one takes less time and so forth). So, yeah. Airborne opponent is ideal in most MUs because Sheik's options are ******** against them (especially if they lack DJ or Purin quality combo break options). If you're smart there's really no problem with overextending with uairs (other characters can lose punishes for doing this but Sheik often benefits from it). They also can vertical kill so they can't afford to just keep eating them. They also link to fair because everything links to fair. I could say more, but that's the gist of it.
I could punish better in terms of efficiency and consistency (both technical and otherwise) but it's hard to be better than 1 hit = 1 stock. That said, I'm still working on it because I do fizzle a lot vs top level players -.-
I actually think I do some things badly because I really enjoy swagging on people with tipped u-smash so I feel my standard combos are sometimes flimsy. I need to work on tech chasing off stray hits better too... bah, enough of this. Uair is good. Tipped u-smash kills Peach out of throw before 70% (even though it doesn't combo legitimately). Sheik Peach is therefore 6-4 for Sheik.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Why isn't Peach in this set?
TaFoKiNtS
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
Any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIWpmxHl6rw&feature=g-all-u
me vs. PPU
Side note: I get some nice F-smash combos in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIWpmxHl6rw&feature=g-all-u
me vs. PPU
Side note: I get some nice F-smash combos in
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
I'll try to edit this today or tomorrow with comments, but I just watched it for enjoyment and damnnnn there were some sweet f-smash combo's.
Don't SD and you had that set tho, or wayy closer. And some flubbed edgeguards that were easy, specifically the one where you just held the ledge and drop and baired and he jumped, grabbed the ledge and started edgeguarding you lol
Don't SD and you had that set tho, or wayy closer. And some flubbed edgeguards that were easy, specifically the one where you just held the ledge and drop and baired and he jumped, grabbed the ledge and started edgeguarding you lol
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Daniel, for someone who I get the impression prides himself on being janky, your movement has been looking pretty damn smooth.
Juggleguy
Smash Grimer
Don't forget about your destruction of my Falcon in R2 Pools!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnXFBtDhlM
I really need to learn better anti-combo DI.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think you did better vs me than Sung, Frootloop, and Vudujin lol.
But then again so did Wake.
Human characters man.
Luigi isn't a human he's a clown.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
You remind me a lot of Darkrain, Juggleguy. I love your movement with Falcon.
KK, you're just a ****ing bully. That is all.
Smooth Criminal
KK, you're just a ****ing bully. That is all.
Smooth Criminal
Wake
Smash Master
And clowns aren't human lol.
How do you guys ledgedash? (Waveland to the stage)
I'm just curious because I do it by Tapping down to fastfall, Press jump, and quarter circle the stick towards the stage and press R.. But the thing is.. Sometimes I press jump 1-2 frames too late, and end up airdodging against the wall.. The timing with the jump would be easier if i didn't fast fall.. >_> Am I the only one doing it like this..
I'm just curious because I do it by Tapping down to fastfall, Press jump, and quarter circle the stick towards the stage and press R.. But the thing is.. Sometimes I press jump 1-2 frames too late, and end up airdodging against the wall.. The timing with the jump would be easier if i didn't fast fall.. >_> Am I the only one doing it like this..
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Everyone does that.