Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Sweet™]

I can do all of those, with the exception of having some trouble with nair OoS.

I was just wondering.

 

[KirbyKaze]

We have more usable options than the average character but we have neither a shine or Peach's float so we don't have everything

 

[Sweet™]

Yeah. Something that comes out on one frame that kills someone with one touch would be useful.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I concur. I hate that our death moves come out in 5 and 7. Life is unfair.

 

[Sweet™]

So little time. :l

If only we had something we could do out of backthrow...

 

[MegaRobMan]

Because modern games suck compared to what they could be making.

Fact. Sig worthy.

If only we had something we could do out of backthrow...

Edgeguard.

Have we gone over Samus at all recently?

In my area the biggest problems are fox/falco as usual and the normal Marth/Falcon.

But Samus is probably the #1 player in my state.

He says all I should do is just throw needles at him to get him to stand still and then just grab ****.

Or, wait until he throws a move and WD-OOS and grab ****.

I find it way more difficult than that.

Mostly because I struggle with WD-OOS Grab

 

[unknown522]

To hell with the Fox MU.

I don't even think it's that bad I'm just baffled at how much I can suck at it despite living near Unknown522, Weon-X, and Raynex.

t name search.

Eh, you'll be saying that you're good at it again soon.

 

[Sweet™]

Oh. I was just joking about the backthrow thing.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ganons back air is pretty decent against your character.

it's a good thing you guys can crouch under our grab, or that matchup might actually be like 60-40 instead of...worse.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fortunately needles force him to look at us.

 

[Sinji]

^ LOL KirbyKaze.

 

[SuperMatt]

boost grab is strong

is there a link to the post about good combos to do on marth out of grab? i know ive seen it before somewhere

or just someone post something about it, i know theres an up smash somewhere in there

 

[Bl@ckChris]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=312070

it's stickied here

and yeah, needles are pretty good.

 

[silentSWAG]

boost grab is strong

is there a link to the post about good combos to do on marth out of grab? i know ive seen it before somewhere

or just someone post something about it, i know theres an up smash somewhere in there

good i needed to look at this myself.....

right now i dash attack di away and up tilt erthing else

:/

edit: i guess i should thank chris....

 

[darkatma]

Some of those combos don't actually work, I've tested them out myself at one point.
I forget which ones though

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

To everybody: I will be spending the next week off of smashboards and facebook. I am going to use this time to restructure and refocus things in my life. If you would like to contact me, I will be available on AIM, Skype, FBchat and Text. Technically my PMs go to my email so I may get those as well.

Be civil and keep the discussions rolling. Be cool ya'll

If anyone wants gif you can still request them and i'll be happy to oblige.

 

[Sweet™]

Can you show me a gif of the dsmash hitboxes?

 

[ShroudedOne]

 

[MegaRobMan]

I figured this was more "social" material but I didn't want to bump it.

I got 2nd at a tournament today out of 11 people and beat one of Nebraskas better players in Sm3esh, I almost beat JBMFalcon08 in winners as well butttttttttt he can play a lot of characters so it's tough to adjust. He says I almost beat him in GF but I disagree.

I forced him off Marth but then proceeded to choke away a 3 stock lead vs Falco. GF I got lucky to win 1 game.

I won't even mention that I struggle with wavedashing, currently I am trying to figure out crouch cancelling. That **** pissed me off so much (keep in mine I play vs Samus/Falco a lot) and it seems whenever I try and CC I end up eating something stupid.

My post 04 knowledge is silly but my innability to know how to apply super basic tech-skill things does kill me and I want a super, duper n00b forum to ask questions like character specific moves/%'s for when it is smart to CC.

I realize this seems like trolling but I'm serious.

results

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324700

 

[Kaffei]

I figured this was more "social" material but I didn't want to bump it.

I got 2nd at a tournament today out of 11 people and beat one of Nebraskas better players in Sm3esh, I almost beat JBMFalcon08 in winners as well butttttttttt he can play a lot of characters so it's tough to adjust. He says I almost beat him in GF but I disagree.

I forced him off Marth but then proceeded to choke away a 3 stock lead vs Falco. GF I got lucky to win 1 game.

I won't even mention that I struggle with wavedashing, currently I am trying to figure out crouch cancelling. That **** pissed me off so much (keep in mine I play vs Samus/Falco a lot) and it seems whenever I try and CC I end up eating something stupid.

My post 04 knowledge is silly but my innability to know how to apply super basic tech-skill things does kill me and I want a super, duper n00b forum to ask questions like character specific moves/%'s for when it is smart to CC.

I realize this seems like trolling but I'm serious.

results

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=324700

Something KirbyKaze told me at Apex..
If you f-air Samus and auto cancel and instantly shield, Samus' CC downsmash will get blocked then you can just WD OoS and punish her with a grab/your own down smash

I'm not sure what to do against Falco's CC, though (cus Idk if you can also aerial him>shield and block his shine.) Sometimes I like to empty hop >grab or downsmash if I know they're CC happy but Idk how reliable that is

 

[silentSWAG]

just space around the anticipated crouch canceled attack
sheik has that repeated sh ff fair that is great against cc.

and sheiks cc game is so good it can dodge attacks and she has ftilt that she can get out as well as dsmash and grab

 

[Kaffei]

sheik has that repeated sh ff fair that is great against cc.

heheh I love this

 

[Salevits]

Any tips on

1 Edgeguarding marth on Yoshis story
(not being able to go as low and not being able to throw sh needles make it a ton harder for me)

2 Getting back to the stage (to a good position) from the ledge vs marth on Yoshi's
(I feel VERY cornered there, compared to other stages..)

??

 

[Kaffei]

Any tips on

1 Edgeguarding marth on Yoshis story
(not being able to go as low and not being able to throw sh needles make it a ton harder for me)

2 Getting back to the stage (to a good position) from the ledge vs marth on Yoshi's
(I feel VERY cornered there, compared to other stages..)

??

Dash off the ledge
reverse needle cancel > dj bair
grab ledge

idk

 

[darkatma]

KK do you know the frame data on the reverse needle cancel edgegrab? (no jump)

I wanna learn it

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's fast.

...That's all I got.

 

[joejoe22802]

So what are some tips to improve game sense. I feel like I'm pretty ok but often I find myself playing is a formulaic way that will only beat players that aren't self aware enough to mix up frequently or plays that make enough technical errors for me to capitalize.

 

[Zoler]

KK do you know the frame data on the reverse needle cancel edgegrab? (no jump)

I wanna learn it

When I used to main sheik I sat down with that for like 2 straight hours and only made it twice >.< pretty hard

 

[Beat!]

Lol

When I tried it for like the first time ever (a couple of weeks ago), I had over 50% consistency after 10 minutes. Didn't feel like it would be hard/take long at all to get down consistenly.

I was actually going to post here and ask why you Sheik guys haven't started implementing it yet, but I forgot to. So uhhh, I'll do it now instead!

 

[Nedved]

Beat -> I think KK said he doesn't use it because drop->AFA is easier and cover almost all the same options.

 

[Zoler]

Lol

When I tried it for like the first time ever (a couple of weeks ago), I had over 50% consistency after 10 minutes. Didn't feel like it would be hard/take long at all to get down consistenly.

I was actually going to post here and ask why you Sheik guys haven't started implementing it yet, but I forgot to. So uhhh, I'll do it now instead!

That was when I had only played the game for like 3 months though and I have pretty slow fingers XD I'll try it again, maybe with more success this time.

And yea many characters has like 2-3 amazing but hard techniques that no one or few bothered to learn fully yet because theyre lazy and/or focusing on other things.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Beat -> I think KK said he doesn't use it because drop->AFA is easier and cover almost all the same options.

Run off fair covers more in a lot of situations, actually.

RNS edgehog can be good as a super fast edgehog if you need one for some reason. Otherwise... not much utility. WD FF edgehog and dash SH RNS edgehog will usually suffice.

 

[Zoler]

Agreed that technique is not that useful at all compared to some real awesome stuff people don't use, like waveshine OOS for example

 

[Salevits]

I don't remember reading about N-air being crazy good against Falco..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLdAK2p2c8 <-- But here..

KK, you use a LOT of N-air in these matches. And it works REALLY well.

Can you enlighten me about your reasoning / Why is it working so well / What's the role of N-air in this MU ?

E: Oh, nevermind. It's N-air OOS most of the time, which makes pretty much perfect sense. Maybe i should get some sleep now.. @_@

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shiz is predictable.

 

[Salevits]

Dang I wanna see new sets of you VS PP. (didn't go to sleep after all it seems)

 

[KirbyKaze]

I played him in crews and nair did very little for me IIRC.

It's okay OOS and it goes over his SH dair and nair so it's a reasonable move to toss around. It loses terribly to them either going around it or using bair, u-tilt, or even f-smash (it's a really good trade for them).

What's more important vs Falco is the timing of your moves and how you position them, rather than the actual move itself. Nair just happens to be conveniently decent vs two of his main approaches (because of how it positions itself in a SH) so you can use it a lot vs really aggressive ones kind of lazily and it's alright. But ones that bait a bit more... it loses a lot of its power.

 

[silentSWAG]

i like sh reverse needle to the ledge because i have alot of time to decide if i want to dj bair or something

 

[joejoe22802]

So I don't know how to get out of marth combos especially on fd. What do you guys do out of up throw tilts and downthrow or forward throw tech chases. And what about after you're hit with an up tilt with and without a jump

 

[darkatma]

my faith in sheik as a good character was restored today!
won a ton of matches vs some pretty good foxes today xP