Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
But I want a cool in-depth response from KK =(
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
i miss our aggro fox dittos swag. why'd you have to change?
idk who you lost to in winners swag, but getting yay in losers was pretty unfortunate. i think you played well to take a game off him.
idk who you lost to in winners swag, but getting yay in losers was pretty unfortunate. i think you played well to take a game off him.
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
yea, i think i played good at zenith, i beat eggm wich was like crazy
i loss to tec0 in winners, he always beats me...
and losing to yay sucked... i loss on that sd
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
oh you said you played bad at apex. what happened there? did you at least make it out of first round pools?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Sure .
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm not familiar enough with Peach's options to give an in-depth response on that one.
I think Peach might be very marginally better vs Falco because of the better shield game, float, bigger option pool at low percents, and better recovery. Sheik's tech chase, range & speed mix, and better edgeguarding is really good though.
It's close.
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
i made it out of 1st round but not second.
i didn't take a game second round =(
i had g$, zhu, and shiz
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
oh. well that's pretty understandable. i made it to second round, and i 2-0'd a link (internetexplorer). i got blasted by amsah and pewpewu though lmao
Why am I not subbed here?
Sup.
Sup.
Wake
Smash Master
Peach messes Sheik up in PAL from the looks of it. I feel bad for PAL Sheik.
Paju
Smash Journeyman
I wouldn't say Peach messes Sheik up in PAL, but the MU definitely is easier for Peach in PAL. Sheik has so much harder time killing Peach in PAL because at high high percent you can just shield because Sheik can't kill you straight out of grab anymore and the uair nerf also reduced the killing possibilties for Sheik. Otherwise the MU isn't that much different.
Here's something interesting that KK has written:
"Thinking during your matches makes it way easier to remember things that happened.
Unless I'm in a full blown conversation with someone and looking away from the T.V., I remember most of my matches pretty well for a few hours after they happen... in pretty good detail."
Now.. I think this would be very useful.. But I have no idea where to start from. <_> How do you progress at something like this?
"Thinking during your matches makes it way easier to remember things that happened.
Unless I'm in a full blown conversation with someone and looking away from the T.V., I remember most of my matches pretty well for a few hours after they happen... in pretty good detail."
Now.. I think this would be very useful.. But I have no idea where to start from. <_> How do you progress at something like this?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Its similar to a chess player's view of the game. "Well i opened with this and he responded with that so it left me to choose this or that and i chose this because of something and he responded with ..." etc. There is a clear dialogue between the players. It shouldn't be much different than remembering a conversation in detail.
to get to that point of memory shouldn't be a goal in-and-of itself. It could be used as a decent checkpoint for where you are in terms of mentality and comfort in the game. Actually, I take it back. If you wanted to get better quicker, the process of simply remembering your matches in great detail is a great tool, though its not an endpoint.
to get to that point of memory shouldn't be a goal in-and-of itself. It could be used as a decent checkpoint for where you are in terms of mentality and comfort in the game. Actually, I take it back. If you wanted to get better quicker, the process of simply remembering your matches in great detail is a great tool, though its not an endpoint.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
well like if I get CC shined by a falco I'm like "k can't let that happen again" or if I get gimped in a certain way, or if my opponent recovers in a certain way, I make it a point to remember that so that I can do something different next time.
or even general stuff, like "he's camping the platforms, he won't expect me to ____" stuff like that
just don't be brainless
or even general stuff, like "he's camping the platforms, he won't expect me to ____" stuff like that
just don't be brainless
The MU thread says:
"Marth match requires constant pressure on your part and the necessity to play a tight, fast game."
But then KK says:
"Marth can deal with a "speedy" Sheik just fine. Simple defense will trump that style. What Marth struggles with is a "smart" Sheik that understands how to break up his dash dancing, attack his weak spots, and do massive punishes from throw."
I usually camp more but sometimes it doesn't work and I get fast&aggro and it works like a charm even tough i dont know what i'm doing at that point. :D
Camping marth (countering his approaches) vs Pressuring him and throwing moves first. Which do you think is better? What is your neutral game strategy agaist Marth? How easy / hard do you find the MU compared to say Spacies now in 2012?
EDIT: Oh and also, what methods are the best to break up his dash dancing, other than charging and cancelling needles & throwing them from the air and stuff.
"Marth match requires constant pressure on your part and the necessity to play a tight, fast game."
But then KK says:
"Marth can deal with a "speedy" Sheik just fine. Simple defense will trump that style. What Marth struggles with is a "smart" Sheik that understands how to break up his dash dancing, attack his weak spots, and do massive punishes from throw."
I usually camp more but sometimes it doesn't work and I get fast&aggro and it works like a charm even tough i dont know what i'm doing at that point. :D
Camping marth (countering his approaches) vs Pressuring him and throwing moves first. Which do you think is better? What is your neutral game strategy agaist Marth? How easy / hard do you find the MU compared to say Spacies now in 2012?
EDIT: Oh and also, what methods are the best to break up his dash dancing, other than charging and cancelling needles & throwing them from the air and stuff.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik sucks at aggressively engaging Marth's dash dance and his DJ away from her. Everything else is gravy.
I recommend using the needle zoning (and playing a fairly defensive stance) because running through the needle triangle is difficult and his other ground responses to it (shield, etc) are kind of weak. You can combo needles to stuff on an airborne Marth (depending on how you do them) - this places pressure on Marth to stay out of their range, which lets you zone him to the edge or platforms (and he's really not that good on platforms). This reduces his space to dash dance, places more pressure on him to defend himself with moves (which Sheik is good at handling), and Marth on the ledge generally sucks anyway (especially vs needles).
For ones that play more in your face, just evade until they whiff a grab or block and then grab them for it (or whatever else seems appropriate). The classic slap > grab is also very good. Tilting them out of the air is also good (bairing them out of the air is okay). Close range Marths are generally just trying to bait you in your face so just counter-bait until something appears (because Marth's close range attacks are basically grab and SH aerial so there's not much to plan for). They'll probably try to cross you up a lot if you block a low SH fair, so be prepared for that kind of thing. Dash attack is pretty good too at close range for similar reasons that Peach's dash attack is good vs Marth at that range (and just like with Peach you have to mix it up with grabs and other things that are good vs block to discourage shielding).
The Marth MU seems really focused on denying him his footing.
I recommend using the needle zoning (and playing a fairly defensive stance) because running through the needle triangle is difficult and his other ground responses to it (shield, etc) are kind of weak. You can combo needles to stuff on an airborne Marth (depending on how you do them) - this places pressure on Marth to stay out of their range, which lets you zone him to the edge or platforms (and he's really not that good on platforms). This reduces his space to dash dance, places more pressure on him to defend himself with moves (which Sheik is good at handling), and Marth on the ledge generally sucks anyway (especially vs needles).
For ones that play more in your face, just evade until they whiff a grab or block and then grab them for it (or whatever else seems appropriate). The classic slap > grab is also very good. Tilting them out of the air is also good (bairing them out of the air is okay). Close range Marths are generally just trying to bait you in your face so just counter-bait until something appears (because Marth's close range attacks are basically grab and SH aerial so there's not much to plan for). They'll probably try to cross you up a lot if you block a low SH fair, so be prepared for that kind of thing. Dash attack is pretty good too at close range for similar reasons that Peach's dash attack is good vs Marth at that range (and just like with Peach you have to mix it up with grabs and other things that are good vs block to discourage shielding).
The Marth MU seems really focused on denying him his footing.
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
offense = offense , defense > offense , defense = defense
defense is dominate
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik is inherently a defensive character.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
To hell with the Fox MU.
I don't even think it's that bad I'm just baffled at how much I can suck at it despite living near Unknown522, Weon-X, and Raynex.
I don't even think it's that bad I'm just baffled at how much I can suck at it despite living near Unknown522, Weon-X, and Raynex.
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
It's just very hard. It's definitely winnable, but Fox just has more room for error. This is apparent when I play Fox on other's sheik's (given not good ones). The fact that once we hit 70% they get a free KO from almost any hit/shine whereas we do not is pretty big.
It is very momentum based, moreso than other matchups as well. If playing a Fox that doesn't get rattled by a good techchase and continues to play smart and on point it's rough.
I enjoy Falco much more, due to easier edgeguards and my ability to powershield semi decently probably. I quit playing though so what do I know
Edit: I wish had helpful advice KK ha.
It is very momentum based, moreso than other matchups as well. If playing a Fox that doesn't get rattled by a good techchase and continues to play smart and on point it's rough.
I enjoy Falco much more, due to easier edgeguards and my ability to powershield semi decently probably. I quit playing though so what do I know
Edit: I wish had helpful advice KK ha.
I know that feel.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Really? I find Falco 99999 harder than Fox =(
Falco is kinda ez.. fox is what gives most sheiks headaches
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Maybe I'm just really bad against lasers lolFalco is kinda ez.. fox is what gives most sheiks headaches
Get really good at shielding lasers and wavedashing out of shield, also moving over platforms.
Mixing in jumping over them every now and then too if you get a read works decent as well.
Also powershield.
These things are the main ways to deal with lasers.
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
Yup being able to semi-consistently power shield, WD OoS, and staying on different levels are great ways to deal with lasers and make it very manageable. If they are above you bait them to drop to punish the dair, but don't commit enough where when they do where they can hit you. If you're above them don't allow them to get directly below you as that is a bad position (rising bair, or shine). But safely dropping with bair/fair or needles is good when they are diagonally beneath.
Sinji
Smash Master
Is it safe to attempt an usmash after a dthrow when the falco is at 55% even though there is a possibility that they may tech roll to the left or right?
Also is it safe to dash attack falco past him even if he is at a low percent? I notice that he can CC if you do it right in front of him.
Also is it safe to dash attack falco past him even if he is at a low percent? I notice that he can CC if you do it right in front of him.
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
Always react after dthrow. ALWAYS!
React to their di and stuff
If u watch ur oppenents techs u should see easy to predict patterns
And dash attack is hard to crouch if u space like that
React to their di and stuff
If u watch ur oppenents techs u should see easy to predict patterns
And dash attack is hard to crouch if u space like that
unknown522
Some guy
If you're lazy, you can start dash attacking around 25% f-tilt around 30%. They will also net more damage and are easier to hit in some cases.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Zoso commissioned me (lol) to make this gif. I think hes using it to study falco's tech in place and practice timing sheik's latest possible grab timing. Feel free to use the same technique. Since 1/60 = 16.666... I rounded up to 17 ms between frames. That means this gif is technically only 98% of real time, so it will be very slightly faster in real life.
Sinji
Smash Master
Ah a see, thanks.
Also, how do you edge guard falco from above?
Also, how do you edge guard falco from above?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Throw your body at him with bair, fair, or nair > fair / nair.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
jesus how did a game that came out 10+ years ago look this goodZoso commissioned me (lol) to make this gif. I think hes using it to study falco's tech in place and practice timing sheik's latest possible grab timing. Feel free to use the same technique. Since 1/60 = 16.666... I rounded up to 17 ms between frames. That means this gif is technically only 98% of real time, so it will be very slightly faster in real life.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Because modern games suck compared to what they could be making.
Stupid question...
Can you/How can you upsmash/downsmash OoS. Sometimes I get shield pressured bad, and my only instinct is to grab, or roll away, and neither of those are good for me a lot of the time. lol.
I know Fox can upsmash OoS, can Sheik do anything besides nair OoS?
Can you/How can you upsmash/downsmash OoS. Sometimes I get shield pressured bad, and my only instinct is to grab, or roll away, and neither of those are good for me a lot of the time. lol.
I know Fox can upsmash OoS, can Sheik do anything besides nair OoS?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
WD OOS, SH, FJ, and Nair OOS (yeah it gets its own category) are all strong options that can lead into other forms of evasion, defense, etc.