Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

[NH Cody]

Yeah, I just played Boku, too. I had a Shadow texture hack on, and for like the second time ever, it caused a d/c. I was winning when he started doing weird stuff and SDing (indicating the D/C) and so I said, well it was a threestock on my screen, so it must be a d/c, lemme go turn it off. And he was a total jerk and insisted that we count that as his win. eff him lol. Then the next two matches I was so mad that I just graped his Sonic. freaking RIDICULOUS LOL you guys should have SEEN how many times he did SDR > SDJ > aerial/homing attack > spring > dair. LMAO it was total bull. That first match didn't even help him to win the set.

 

[XLR8TION]

lool boku too gudz and the falco mu isnt really hard :/

 

[NH Cody]

Boku sucks lmao

and go play SK92. :I

 

[Tenki]

Yeah, I just played Boku, too. I had a Shadow texture hack on, and for like the second time ever, it caused a d/c. I was winning when he started doing weird stuff and SDing (indicating the D/C) and so I said, well it was a threestock on my screen, so it must be a d/c, lemme go turn it off. And he was a total jerk and insisted that we count that as his win. eff him lol. Then the next two matches I was so mad that I just graped his Sonic. freaking RIDICULOUS LOL you guys should have SEEN how many times he did SDR > SDJ > aerial/homing attack > spring > dair. LMAO it was total bull. That first match didn't even help him to win the set.

lol

as I've gotten wifi back on my wii at home, I've been playing on weekends the past month.

one guy was like "wow, nice. Every Sonic I play tries to time me out. You play nothing like them."

and out of curiosity, I asked who he's played. Was surprised to hear BOKU still played x.x
----

also, if anyone wants to play, I'm free all day. Just grading some students and stuff for today. :3

 

[NH Cody]

I'll play you later/tomorrow Tenki, I have to go now.

 

[Exceladon City]

First I lose to Quest, then I lose to Boku and now some weak *** Olimar named Zorai. **** Wifi.

I stay losing to people I can beat.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I should probably get on wifi too when I get back.

I could use a wake up call and get some people to punish me for doing SDR -> SDJ.

 

[Chis]

Since when did everyone start posting in colours? The previous page is like a rainbow. People might talk.

 

[Exceladon City]

I do it to match my avatar. inb4gayjoke

 

[Kuraudo]

I do it because...well. because I can. lol

 

[Kinzer]

Why did you quote part of your own post Kinzer?

Emphasis.

Or I was tired last night.

Don't know.

MK =/= Lucario.

X can **** MK from now until the next blue moon. Lucario will ALWAYS be harder than MK. Especially, when they know the match-up. You saw what happened when X played Gnes.

Sir, I must kindly disagree.

I'm not sure if it;'s just because MK is held in a greater light, but it seems that the stupid bat has frame-traps you really truly cannot penetrate. At least Least has holes. Just my opinion though; I'm probably somewhat close to being on the pro-ban side for MK (again).

this whole espy is the epitome of all things sonic is ludicrous and needs to stop.

the kid already has way too big of a head as it is.

I can understand the former, but I never got the impression that Espy was a big-

... Err, scratch that; but it was just one instance, and he either apologized, or reminded me internet is not srs bzns. Aside from that; why's he a bigot? ?_?

I'm not basing anything Sonic solely on Espy. If that were the case then every match-up outside of Lucario would be close to even or in Sonic's favor because Espy has overcome so many tough match-ups.

Makes sense I s'pose.

I stay losing to people I can beat.

Yay Wi-Fail.

Since when did everyone start posting in colours? The previous page is like a rainbow. People might talk.

White is all the colors. Everybody time somebody posts in non-black it's a double rainbow.

*Swoosh.*

I'm in a good mood now that I got a 14 hour nap.

 

[BSP]

So...what are we going to do when people finally realise they need to learn the Sonic MU?

 

[Kuraudo]

They have. There is no excuse for people now; in most cases that is.

 

[NH Cody]

Excel, your MK lost to my Marth in a 65-35 matchup that's even worse for Marth online since MK is better on wifi and Marf is worse.

So. yeah. graped. :I

No excuse for that lol.

However Boku is a wifi abuser, so I kinda don't blame you for losing to him. (it's still bad but not THAT bad since I guess you don't know how to fight sawnik on wifi.)

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. I was the first one around here to use color in my posts.

2. I use this color cus it matchs my irl skin tone.

 

[Kuraudo]

Oh yeah. Me too. My skin is blue.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

[22:00] <Browny> i would never touch a rare, or med rare steak lol

D:

 

[Espy Rose]

I'll be answering this to the best of my ability, jokes aside. Also, if this seems a little like it lacks a proper order, that's because I tackled everything as I read it, so...yeah.

[collapse=For Kinzer (and anyone else who wants to read it)]

I think it goes without dispute that you are the outlier-

No, excuse me.

THE outlier for Sonic in Brawl.

Though I have more to talk about than simply meat riding, I want to briefly congratulate you and what not.

Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it. At the same time, however, I'm not one who is really comfortable with this blatant meat ride thing. It's kinda embarrassing.

I could understand why one would say that anyways, about me being the outlier for Sonic, but I get the feeling from your wording that you're seriously undermining the effort done by X or Speed. Speed's done very well in his region, and I see him constantly getting anywhere from 5th-10th, which is impressive given his region, and X does absolutely fantastic in the West Coast.

And don't forget, I only out-placed X by a single placement at MLG Dallas. If you believe me to be an outlier for Sonic, you can't disregard X, because he's pretty much on the exact same level. MLG showed this to me, and I refuse to believe otherwise.

X is just as good, if not better than myself, and I think it's a bit unfair to call me any kind of outlier when you have to consider both X and Speed, and their performance over time.

And thanks also for the congrats. Saying it hasn't been easy would be an understatement.

I'm going to assume you keep up with a lot of stuff behind the BBR and everything directed at it. I'm sure you have at one time or another seen it argued, or you having been brought up to support or testify against the constant outlier arguments.

Which IMO are pretty stupid, but I suppose it's becoming a trend now. It's certainly bought my attention for this moment, and I have a couple things I need to say/ask.

What do you have to say about this whole thing?

How do you feel about people being mentioned to represent a good chunk of a characters metagame?

Do you feel that this outlier stuff either strengthens or weakens a characters overall spot in a tier list? Specifically Sonic's case? Why?

Alright, I think that's it concerning that.

Browny's topic more or less speaks for how I see the entire argument regarding outliers:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293134

Particularly these parts:

A recurring notion in all tier list discussions is the same, whenever a low-mid tier character gets results which don’t agree with their tier position, this is blamed as an outlier, a disregarded piece of evidence because player skill is paramount and no one can say if a certain characters top players randomly switched to a different low tier char with no rep, they wouldn’t get high tier results. That argument is fair on one condition and ONE condition only; said character is actually low tier.

We run into a problem here though, in that no one can rightfully place the mid-low tier characters. Top and high tiers are easily definable as there is a wealth of data to formulate a list but once you hit C tier and below the problem of outliers arises. The problem is though, is that an outlier is extremely difficult to determine and the apparent common belief of an outlier is someone who performs far better than the others. OK that’s fine, we can call TKD an outlier compared to fox players. HOWEVER the tier list doesn’t rank players, it ranks characters. There is an equally important factor people are simply assuming here, in that Fox’s, or ANY mid tier and lower characters tier position is 100% accurately defined and that any placement well outside this region is an outlier. TKD’s fox is a perfect example. His placements suggest a top tier character yet other fox mains’ suggest mid. His fox is an outlier on a tier list if Fox’s position is 100% guaranteed however it is not. Who’s to say fox actually isn’t high tier, and that TKD’s results are well within the non-outlier range and that simply most other fox’s placings are below average?
.
.
.
.
.
May I ask that people kill all your previous misconceptions about a characters worth and start fresh. Stop calling people ‘outliers’ and accept that they have shown their characters upper limit. The only thing holding back the rest of said characters mains is simply skill and to judge a character based off even a majority of players inability to reach that skill level is not creating a tier list which represents the highest level of the metagame. Work with what you have people; not with what you used to have or think you should.

At least, that's how I feel about the whole issue. Let me know if you still have some questions regarding the idea of an outlier.

Now these questions will be a bit generalized, and with more sentimentals, but hopefully I can keep it formal.

Didn't you at one point believe that Sonic was probably a low-mid tier character or is my memory off and you always have been advocating for Sonic's (inevitable?) rise?

If the former, why have you gone so far out of the way to make everybody else believe otherwise? Really no reason non-whatsoever other than a diehard fanboyism kind of thing?

There was a point in time at the beginning of the game where I truly thought that Sonic was a low tier character (back in mid 2008), but as I continued to go to minor tournaments in my state, which were visited by players like Dojo, Hylian, Santi, and Sethlon, I started to see that Sonic was showing, to me, too much potential in his abilities to make me believe that he was a low tier character. Since then (and after a nice little chat with Hylian concerning it back in late 2008), I've always had it in my head that Sonic was most definitely a mid-tier character, just a low-mid, barely crossing the border between mid tier and low tier on the list.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "the former", so I'll answer to what I think you're asking.

Yes, there was once point that I thought Sonic was a low-mid tier character. As I continued to play, sometime around 2009 (after my performance at WHOBO in April), I honestly began to believe that Sonic was deserving of a higher position. X was rocking the West Coast, and I believe it was Shugo that was handling the West Coast, while Malcolm kept EC under wraps (or was it Speed? I can't remember 09EC too well).

I continued to mess around online with the idea that Sonic was low tier trash because, to be bluntly honest about it, I was still incredibly upset about the Brawl Back Room's summary of Sonic's meta-game, especially when concerning the "just dtilt" comment made by Overswarm (which made Shugo beating him so satisfying to me).

So yeah, I kept "advocating" Sonic's low-tier status because I was salty to certain player's ill-perceptions. I've long since gotten over that, though. Now, if I do it, it's clearly a mock statement, since people (hopefully) now know that Sonic isn't someone to take lightly in a set. Especially one of a high caliber.

I've told people before too, that when it comes to many things on SWF, that I'm generally just screwing around pretty much 100% of the time that I post (even if what I post holds some semblance of what I believe in something). It's not until I actually outwardly claim that I'm gonna discuss something seriously, that I take it seriously, like I did at the beginning of this questionnaire.

Hell, that's why I mess with KID and Browny so much. I'm under the assumption that they are aware that I'm pretty much just screwing around with them, because I've mentioned this about myself several times before.

As a matter of fact, since I don't think I have so far, I'd like to actually use this time to apologize to KID or Browny, or anyone on the Sonic Boards for anything I may have done or said that has personally insulted or irritated you. I dislike having bad-blood between myself and other players, so I just wanted to get that out of the way.

I'd like to think you guys would do the same for me (don't answer that, though. I'd prefer ambiguity on this).

One obvious way to kill the outlier argument is for every one of us to get better; consistency is the name of the game. Of course that isn't to say you are perfect and only have downhill to go, but you've set quite a bar. Now the rest of us will have to perform just as equally, if not even better in your same place, and if applicable; succeed where you have even fell short, in order to prove your last performance at MLG was not a one-hit wonder.

Where am I going with that you may ask?

Just how the @#$% are we suppose to do that?!

I'm sitting here, and I'm baffled as to why you of all people are performing so well, where a lot of us could only dream of being. I mean no disrespect towards you; quite the opposite in fact, but I imagine you must at least be able to sympathize with those who deal with the frustration of not being able to accomplish certain things. Are some people doomed to failure or is there some sort of secret I'm missing where even the most hopeless of cases can achieve greatness?

It's no problem, Kinzer. I don't take offense to people saying this as long as they pretty much have a disclaimer like you have done, so no sweat about that.

I do sympathize with people who have seemingly made little to no progress in the game. I know several players who I went toe to toe with way back in 2008, who have made absolutely no progress as of this date, and who continue to remain stuck in a certain placement.

It frustrates me because I KNOW that with hard work and commitment, that one should be able to improve on one's game, but watching someone practice so hard, and seeing no results is disappointing.

I won't say this with absolute certainty, but I believe that there IS a possibility that there are some players that are simply not designed, whether in the mind or body, who are capable of reaching that new plateau that they seek. At the same time, I think that it's entirely possible for people to get rid of these problems through sheer determination.

Back when I played Melee, I felt like I wasn't ever going to become a good player. Wavedashing was incredibly tough to apply in matches, and the L-Cancel felt IMPOSSIBLE to pull off consistently without screwing up. However, by constantly practicing, pouring hours of commitment into my game, and watching hundreds of videos of the game being played on Youtube and other video sharing websites, I improved. Slowly but surely, L-Canceling became second nature, wavedashing was as simple an action as jumping, and even things like waveshining across Final Destination suddenly became possible for someone like me.

I can't say that I ever became a "good" player at Melee, but I was without a doubt content with the level I was at before I switched to Brawl. I felt that as a player, I had evolved into something smarter, faster, and more technical than I had ever been when I first started playing competitively in 2005.

There's really no "secret" behind being a great competitive player, I think. What separates a top player from others is simply the commitment they have to the game. They understand many aspects with the characters, stages, and players, they're REALLY good at reading and conditioning players, and they just don't make many of the mistakes that outright separate them from anyone else.

You need to have that level of commitment and sheer love for the game, I'd like to think, to really excel at this game.

To sum it up:

No one is ever absolutely doomed to failure. You'd be surprised by some of the top players' stories concerning their beginnings. Me (NOT saying I'm a top player. I'm just using myself as an example of the "story" shtick)? I was a terrible player back in the beginning of Melee. Would you believe it if I said that when I started with Jigglypuff, that I just spammed downB and neutralB? Everyone starts somewhere. It just takes different amounts of time to reach the next plateau.

... This next one will have me swallowing heavy just because I feel this could annoy you/other people, but I rather get it out and deal with it later.

What does it say when our outlier feels that there's an unwinnable MU? I'm unsure of how you view Sonic's MU against Lucario, but with the way things seem to be going, you seem to have lost hope. Again, please understand I'm not trying to attack you, but it does a lot; to the point where some people will question "if the best guy can't handle a certain case, does this mean that a character inevitably sucks and shines only in certain aspects, but is ultimately unable to compete?"

Would you please deconfirm my fear and at least say something like "I'm only human broski. I suck at this matchup, but somebody else can actually can where I can't," or am I to accept the hard reality that a Lucario player at an equal level (or slighly/drastically less being this case of MUs and all) will always triumph over me and that to be a true competitive player I have to abandon my scrubbiness?

Remember, going with what I said earlier: Do NOT consider me an outlier. Consider me as just another player.

In all honesty, all it says when I have trouble with a match up is that I PERSONALLY feel is incredibly difficult (Did I ever say it was not winnable? I don't think I have, but IF I have, I retract that statement. It's just obscenely difficult). And to be honest, it's not really Lucario that I have a problem with. I'm honestly pretty confident in my skills against any other Lucario player out there, including Lee. I've said this several times, but it's TRELA'S Lucario that gives me problems.

Did you know that I've fought Trela about 4-5 times since October? I feel like I know a great deal about the match up now than I ever have before. How many Sonics can say that they've had that many sets against one of the highest regarded players of that character?

Every single time, I've lost, and it's only getting worse and worse as I try. I can take off a single game, if I'm lucky.

M2K can't handle Olimars and Diddy Kongs. The last time I saw Dojo play Gnes, it didn't seem nearly as bad as when M2K fought him.

However, aside from the one instance between X and Lee, how often has any other Sonic done fine against a top Lucario, to the extent of beating them? Also, keep in mind that Lee isn't a Lucario main. He mains Meta Knight, and used him several times against X's Sonic at MLG Dallas, I believe.

The point is that to me, Sonic clearly has a disadvantaged match up against Lucario as of this moment, and because Trela and I have played so much, and because we've adapted to each other over and over again, I feel like with Sonic, beating Trela is a mountain too high to climb. At least for right now.

Again, I played Trela 4-5 times since October. In ALL of our sets, you wanna know how many games (individual games in a set) I beat him in with Sonic?

Once.

Only once. In four/five sets of 3, one of them a best of five.

I pick Wolf, who I rarely have any experience as. How many games have I taken off of Trela with him?

Two or three. Above that, nearly every game has gone to the last hit. That's more than I can ever say I've done with Sonic in every single game I've played against him. This tells me that my Wolf, should I practice it more, will potentially give me the ability to beat him with more consistency than my Sonic. Trela's outright told me that I should drop Sonic and just play Wolf altogether as a result of our last set.

I refuse to do that. My Wolf is being developed for the sole purpose is taking down Trela. No one else. I haven't used Wolf in ANY other match in the game, against ANY other player.

Now, X DID beat Lee, which is pretty damn big. In all honesty, it DID fill me with hope that maybe there was something vs. Lucario that Sonic can deal with, but after watching what was recorded of the match in question that he beat him in via Youtube, I still remained unconvinced. Despite this, I made adjustments to my game vs. Lucario, and overall just continued to think about what I could possibly do against Trela.

Come next tournament, and I get thrashed. Again. I bust out Wolf, and wouldn't you know? I took him to the last game of the set!

There is just no way I can take down Trela with Sonic alone. It's simply not enough right now. And unless I exponentially become a smarter player than him (which is unlikely. He's really damn smart at abusing the disadvantage Sonic has), it doesn't seem likely for me to ever beat him with Sonic. Trela is just too good vs. Sonic at the moment. That's all there is to it. Definitely on a level beyond Lee's knowledge.

I've been picking up the Wolf and whatnot, but there is no doubt that from time to time, I'll continue to pull out the Sonic against him, depending on how I feel. It's a law of averages, after all. Eventually, I'll (hopefully) win.

As for picking up another character. I'd say do it. If you're on the same level as the opposing Lucario, his advantage is going to help him enormously if he is competent at DI. If you ever see and fight a proper Lucario on the level of Trela or Zucco, you'll see what I mean. They will abuse every little thing that Sonic has problems with in this match up, and it is that, and really only that, that makes this match up so ridiculous.

A true competitive player always picks the options that give him the largest advantage over his opponent. If you wish to be a true competitor, you will toss aside your "scrubby" ideals and do what you need to do to win.

To that extent, I guess that means I'm also a scrub. If I TRULY wanted to beat Trela, I'd just choose Meta Knight or King Dedede...or Snake. I picked Wolf simply because I enjoy playing as the character. To that point, I've accepted that I'm most likely doomed to my own scrubby mentality. Despite that, I'll continue to have fun, because that's the main reason I play this game. Even losing to Trela so many times isn't a bother. You win some, you lose some. It happens, and it'll keep happening until I somehow manage to outsmart him so many times that I get the win.

... I'm hoping you will anyway. Only time can really answer all these questions, but time is something not all of us have; and I'm not saying anybody gonna be dying anytime soon, however I'm hoping that it's just simply a case of "we all still need to get better" (which includes you; our top player(?)) and not so much "we've reached the point of no return."

... I'll continue to get whatever data y'all ask for me. I know it may have been a stupid question since I know some data is still missing, but it still helps... I mean it helps to get the data, and it helps to know that we all just suck still (and yet, n00bs still make this character look awesome(!)).

I wonder if I forgot anything. If I did, I guess I covered it in a big chunk here and maybe I'll remember it later/it'll be brought up by somebody else.

Whatever helps, man.

All of this observations of mine can definitely change. There's always the possibility that maybe Sonic will find a way to deal with Lucario, but until that happens, the way I see it is the way I'll believe it, until truly proven otherwise.[/collapse]

In Summary:

- I think the Outlier Argument is silly.
- I can't be considered THE Sonic. X and Speed do work.
- Sonic is mid tier material. High-mid material. I'm not kidding.
- I screw around a lot unless I say "seriously".
- People may possibly be doomed to fail, but they are just as likely to break out of that predisposition as they are to stay in it. It's a matter of preserverance.
- Either keep pushing as Sonic, or pick another character to win. Simple as that.
- Sonic definitely loses to Lucario (at the moment).
- At the moment, I can't beat Trela with Sonic alone.

==========

You also seem to forget that Espy plays Trela at damn near every tournament. They have played since forever ago and it's painfully apparent that Espy has a Trela problem moreso than a Lucario problem. Lucario is the secondary factor to this; as Lucario is in fact Sonic's most difficult match-up. If you switched Lee's Lucario with Trela's Lucario, X wouldn't have prevailed and I'm 99% sure of this. Out of the top Lucario players, Trela and June have more Sonic experience than Lee and Zucco.

Thanks Excel. That's pretty much what I'm getting at.

Gnes =/= Lucario.

The point Excel was getting at is that experience has a large effect on a match up, which it does, obviously. Gnes has played me PLENTY of times to understand Sonic's mechanics, so I wasn't surprised at all when Gnes tore X apart.

this whole espy is the epitome of all things sonic is ludicrous and needs to stop.

the kid already has way too big of a head as it is.

I agree with the first sentence. I'm not the "epitome" of Sonic. There's still plenty of things I'd like to learn and experience. I STILL haven't fought some big names of characters that I would like to play (Mario, Luigi, Zelda, Donkey Kong, and Peach).

However, if you're seriously not playing around like we usually do, you really need to get over this idea that I have an ego like that. Hell, I may not be as modest as I was in 2008, but what I have lost in modesty, I've gained in wisdom, knowledge, and a good sense of character in tournaments.

However, I'll be serious here: YOU of all people, telling ME indirectly that I have a huge ego, is kinda funny. It's no secret that you have an ego the size of the sun.

@Kojin: Can do. I'm free on PSN after Tuesday, hopefully. :>

Lucario and Falco are hands down the hardest match-ups for Sonic. PERIOD. Just because X beat Lee's Lucario doesn't mean he's the goldstandard for the Sonic/Lucario match-up. If he were to beat Zucco, Trela or June, then we'd have something to talk about.

Thanks again.

people who think falco is sonics hardest matchup or is even in the same of difficulty as sonics hardest matchups make me giggle.

Whatever you say, KID. The rest of us will continue to disagree. Just play a high leveled Falco several times in a tournament set. Record the videos, and then allow us to further analyze the match up.

Again, DEHF was nowhere near as difficult as Ozz. You know why? Because Ozz knows Sonic exponentially more.

I bet fighting Shugo would be an absolute nightmare.

@Chis: It goes with my sexy avatar and grape flavored name.

I can understand the former, but I never got the impression that Espy was a big-

... Err, scratch that; but it was just one instance, and he either apologized, or reminded me internet is not srs bzns. Aside from that; why's he a bigot? ?_?

I apologized. I made sure to apologize. I wouldn't have gotten over it on a personal level if I hadn't.

==========

Actually, I'm interested in hearing this from you, KID. Why is it that you do what you do, and say what you say to me? If you tell me why, I'll tell you why I mess with you so much.

Sound like a deal?

==========

@Alex: Browny's from Australia. His world is upside down as it is, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. :3c

==========

Yummy mountain of text. :3

 

[Tesh]

oreo, quest, tesh << D1aoS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RBIIyDffk&feature=sub

just sayin.

Oh come on, I actually kinda like his Sonic but...

If that is his competition in grand finals....

Still, isn't he a new Sonic. If so, yea very impressed. If he isn't better than us, he certainly will be. Need more Sonics like him stepping it up. Go D1aos!!

the da kid already has way too big of a head as it is.

That was almost too easy......



Oreo, I wasn't saying M2K is the god of smash. Though to be fair he pretty much is where the bar is. Facing M2K in bracket, winning a set or even a game against M2K pretty much validates your skill to the community. He might not be perfect in every matchup, but no one mediocre or worse beats M2K. My point was that just like you say M2K has personal weaknesses, so does Espy. I'm saying that Sonic is a good enough character that, much like MK, there isn't just one good way to use him (Espy's style). Therefore being able to consistently beat Espy doesn't mean you would be able to take down any Sonics that are overall weaker than Espy. Just like there are metaknights not named M2K that would be able to handle Gnes, ADHD, Rich Brown, Brood etc.

First I lose to Quest, then I lose to Boku and now some weak *** Olimar named Zorai. **** Wifi.

I stay losing to people I can beat.

AiB ladder is horrible. I played that Zorai guy and 2-0d him with no problem. Then he got the match cancelled. There is never any way to prove that you won, so I don't even do ladder anymore. Folks like Cheese and Zorai are notorious for getting matches cancelled or reported incorrectly on AiB.

Also my point about Gnes was that he wrecked everyone that day. He is a better player playing a better character and I don't see how him beating X means Trela would beat X. Yes they both know the matchup, but that doesn't put them at the same level of ability to beat any Sonic.

In any case I guess I was just arguing against the reasoning. Trela probably would beat X, if he adjusts to X's style. I'm just saying that beating Espy doesn't = beating Sonic.

Chis the colors feel so right!!

 

[Dark 3nergy]

watched speed and shugo fight at SiiS

yea i was all like goddamn

 

[Kinzer]

;_;

Thank you so much Espy.

I couldn't be anymore happy even if I tried.

No really, I couldn't.

I'm freakin' drunk, and I just saved a whole bunch of images for image macroing. From where I stand, can't get that much better.

*Ahem.*

On a serious note.

I'll follow your request. It just makes it somewhat difficult being that X fought a different set of people, and the same goes for Speed too. I never did say that nobody doesn't put in work, but from where I've stand, it is very easy to just assume your (given?) position.

Speed, if you're reading this, I always want to hear more from you bro. I know college may have you swamped, but if there's anybody willing to listen to what little tourney experiences you may have time for as of late, it's me~!

Same obviously goes for X, but it's normal for him to just get results and stuff.

... *Ahem.* Anyway, I'm not sure what I was/would say, if anything besides the generic "don't give up!" speeches that are tried and tried again.

I suppose it may be nice to mention I'ma go to a tourney at a convention center tomorrow. Before anybody writes it off as just that, or "free money," no. The usual competition here in Vegas will be there. A shame too really, I was hoping I could get some free moneyz but I guess I'll have to do my best and EARN it.

Three cheers, for me beating Wolfs/Marths/Pizzachus/Lucarios/Metas!

... Where did my glass go!? Why did I have to drink it so fast~!? >_<

:093"

 

[Tenki]

watched speed and shugo fight at siis

yea i was all like goddamn

^^^ ..?

 

[Exceladon City]

Excel, your MK lost to my Marth in a 65-35 matchup that's even worse for Marth online since MK is better on wifi and Marf is worse.

So. yeah. graped. :I

No excuse for that lol.

However Boku is a wifi abuser, so I kinda don't blame you for losing to him. (it's still bad but not THAT bad since I guess you don't know how to fight sawnik on wifi.)

Quest, shut the **** up. Like seriously. You treat this as if we were playing next to one another. Which is not the case. 65-35 is an arbitrary number used to try and summarize a match-up. Is MK v Marth bad for Marth? Yes. Does it change on wifi? Yes. I don't spend alot of time on wifi, while you live on the ****. So, the point you're trying to make is null and void because it's wifi. If you beat me offline, then you can talk all the **** that you want to. Until then, shut...the...****...up.

Capisce?

@Espy: Shugo is Midwest not West Coast.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm dead with bliss.

 

[Browny]

off topic

2 points imo

 

[~TBS~]

FFFFFFFFFFF. Too...many...posts. Will try to condense. >_<

oreo, quest, tesh << D1aoS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RBIIyDffk&feature=sub

just sayin.

D1AOS went to Tant's MD tourney today. Pools werent so nice to him. :L

people who think falco is sonics hardest matchup or is even in the same of difficulty as sonics hardest matchups make me giggle.

Falco's tough dude...there's nothing anyone can say to make me think otherwise. Btw, when are you making it to another tourney man? I really look forward to seeing your Sonic again. I wanna see moar tricksies. :D

Since when did everyone start posting in colours? The previous page is like a rainbow. People might talk.

Blue? :D

So...what are we going to do when people finally realise they need to learn the Sonic MU?

Tristate area pretty much learned it and its tough over here...nothing to do but hopefully get better but with their constant rate of improving its hard...for me at least.

They have. There is no excuse for people now; in most cases that is.

Its unfortunate for regions who doesnt have sonic's.

Oh yeah. Me too. My skin is blue.

o rly?

Raep

In Summary:

- I think the Outlier Argument is silly.
- I can't be considered THE Sonic. X and Speed do work.
- Sonic is mid tier material. High-mid material. I'm not kidding.
- I screw around a lot unless I say "seriously".
- People may possibly be doomed to fail, but they are just as likely to break out of that predisposition as they are to stay in it. It's a matter of preserverance.
- Either keep pushing as Sonic, or pick another character to win. Simple as that.
- Sonic definitely loses to Lucario (at the moment).
- At the moment, I can't beat Trela with Sonic alone.

Yummy mountain of text. :3

Wow mazin read. Still cant believe you hold that same opinion of you, x, and me. Honestly espy, im stuck at getting 9th and at nationals, the highest i can make is 33rd. While i do appreciate the remarks, i want to do better. I really do. Its just silly since the gap is kinda large when compared to you and x (i know, comparing is bad x_x). While its "impressive" for my region, I want to make it unbelievable to the point where my results are top 3(locals)/top 8(regionals)/top 16(nationals). If i can accomplish these goals with some consistency...i'll be one happy god dang Sonic main. Until then though...fffffffffff. But this is your opinion.

The outlier argument...i have my own views about that. D:
But really espy, i believe you can beat Trela if you put just a little more effort into it. I too have been told to drop sonic numerous times, but screw that. But really, if you feel that wolf gets the job done...then go for it. Just know that i believe that you'll win soon with Sonic.

Chis the colors feel so right!!

Just take my hand, we'll keep on runnin'!

watched speed and shugo fight at SiiS

yea i was all like goddamn

lol i honestly saw it coming.

;_;

Thank you so much Espy.

I couldn't be anymore happy even if I tried.

No really, I couldn't.

I'm freakin' drunk, and I just saved a whole bunch of images for image macroing. From where I stand, can't get that much better.

*Ahem.*

On a serious note.

I'll follow your request. It just makes it somewhat difficult being that X fought a different set of people, and the same goes for Speed too. I never did say that nobody doesn't put in work, but from where I've stand, it is very easy to just assume your (given?) position.

Speed, if you're reading this, I always want to hear more from you bro. I know college may have you swamped, but if there's anybody willing to listen to what little tourney experiences you may have time for as of late, it's me~!

Same obviously goes for X, but it's normal for him to just get results and stuff.

... *Ahem.* Anyway, I'm not sure what I was/would say, if anything besides the generic "don't give up!" speeches that are tried and tried again.

I suppose it may be nice to mention I'ma go to a tourney at a convention center tomorrow. Before anybody writes it off as just that, or "free money," no. The usual competition here in Vegas will be there. A shame too really, I was hoping I could get some free moneyz but I guess I'll have to do my best and EARN it.

Three cheers, for me beating Wolfs/Marths/Pizzachus/Lucarios/Metas!

... Where did my glass go!? Why did I have to drink it so fast~!? >_<

:093"

I'd be happier if you'd stop getting drunk.

College isn't keeping me from going to tourneys (yeeeee) but im still around 9th place margin kinzer, nothin new.

But yeah Kinzer, you and Tails keep it up down there in Vegas. You and Tails of all people can make it happen down there, i know eet. And like you said earlier, you mentioned that if one wasn't willing to put the work in, its not worth your time just to play the game and complain about how you cant do it, etc. etc im such a hypocrite but im working on it! honestly!

^^^ ..?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSU_gQY2rEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSdeCc6Mtrw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

See for yourself. :/

Rayyyyge.

pls...chill bro. pls?

Disqualified.

About time you noticed.

 

[sonictailslink]

But yeah Kinzer, you and Tails keep it up down there in Vegas. You and Tails of all people can make it happen down there, i know eet. And like you said earlier, you mentioned that if one wasn't willing to put the work in, its not worth your time just to play the game and complain about how you cant do it, etc. etc im such a hypocrite but im working on it! honestly!

Thanks Speed. We'll do our best. Speaking about tournament...well here I go with hosting 6 video game tournaments including Brawl and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. I got this...I hope...eep. At least I got some help for Melee thanks to one of the Melee players complaining about the last Anime convention Melee tournament that was hosting by Top Deck Gaming. One less game on my shoulders

 

[BSP]

SA2 Battle tournament? That sounds fun

 

[Espy Rose]

About time you noticed.

What are you talking about? It's a little Zangoose-girl in a cup.
It's adorable.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

^^^ ..?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSU_gQY2rEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSdeCc6Mtrw

they're on my yt channel go watch


You had a few opportunities to win Speed, idk how a sonic is suppose to deal with Falcos pressure but you had him pinned down at some points lol

 

[~TBS~]

Disqualified.

Like i said...about time you noticed.

I dont know DE, he was just reading me sooo hard. I had no idea what i could have done.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh, about time I noticed your furryness?
That's all I can see, methinks.

Good to have you on the right side, Speed.

Here's some Amy for you: http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs37/f/2008/277/8/3/Older_Amy_Rose_by_puritylf4.png

...or was it Sally you liked best?
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/168/8/3/Sally_Acorn_3_by_Kawaii_Sonic.jpg

 

[Mr. Johan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjJ3M4LVz94#t=6m19s

 

[Exceladon City]

Spoiler

I'm dead with bliss.

That is adorable as ****.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjJ3M4LVz94#t=6m19s

ahahahahahaha .

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic Storm's right. We need to move on to bigger and better things.
Of course, I'm clearly speaking of Blaze the Cat.

 

[Tesh]

I got 3 stocked for the first time yesterday(offline). I managed to do 54% the entire game.

But I'd also like to point out that Bio (BioDG) ALSO GOT 3 STOCKED BY A PEACH!

Edit: after looking at my replays I actually got 3 stocked twice.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I didnt know it was possible to get 3 stocked by a peach


Espy, Ive told you this before. i meat ride myself because nobody respects me. nobody gives me the credit I feel I deserve, and even the few people that know that I am good will never admit it. I just have to be my own best friend. I have to be that guy that tells people how good KID is, because obviously nobody else is going to do it. i also know just about everything there is to know about this character but people on the board dont even take me seriously or listen to what I say when I try to help people. Only person that does is speed.

thats why I act the way I do.

and if youre talkign about the other thing, i just get upset because you are constantly trying to convert people to being furry like an abrasive catholic and because I try so hard to not push my religion on people while still being firm in my faith, you should be able to see why it bothers me so much. which leads to me noticing that you do everything you can to furify any current conversation, and you tell me to just deal with it, and that you can do whatever you want, but as soon as the convo turns to something you dont like talking about, (religion, woulda never guessed) you get all salty and feel the need to bash the convo and talk about how lame/boring the convo is and that you dont want to hear it. which strikes me like a guy that thinks/knows that hes the one in charge on the block and everyone looks up to him so he can just do/say/think whatever he wants and suffer no reprocussions from it.
It also just so happens that hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves.

so yea, thats it in a nutshell.

 

[Exceladon City]

if youre talking about the other thing, i just get upset because you are constantly trying to convert people to being furry like an abrasive catholic and because I try so hard to not push my religion on people while still being firm in my faith, you should be able to see why it bothers me so much. which leads to me noticing that you do everything you can to furify any current conversation, and you tell me to just deal with it, and that you can do whatever you want, but as soon as the convo turns to something you dont like talking about, (religion, woulda never guessed) you get all salty and feel the need to bash the convo and talk about how lame/boring the convo is and that you dont want to hear it. which strikes me like a guy that thinks/knows that hes the one in charge on the block and everyone looks up to him so he can just do/say/think whatever he wants and suffer no reprocussions from it.
It also just so happens that hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves.

so yea, thats it in a nutshell.

I'm pretty sure Espy covered all that when he responded to Kinzer. He's JOKING. Damn.

On the note of nobody respecting or listening to you. People listen, whether you believe they do or not. You demand respect, you pretty much expect people to be like "Oh ****, it's KID Goggles. Listen to everything he has to say because his name is ****ing KID Goggles!" When in actuality they really don't have to. You present your ideas in a way that makes people think "Man, **** that dude, he's a prick." Thus, your ideas get overlooked.

As far as the nobody takes you seriously thing, you think nobody takes you seriously? NOBODY considers me a threat. No matter how hard I try to progress, no matter who I beat, I'll never be looked at as a "threat" or even close to "competition". Which is why I've decided to main a better character because I'm tired of being shrugged off. When you read this, your first response to this particular part of this post is "Why should they? You're bad." Which goes back to the respect thing. See, it's a vicious cycle.

 

[Tesh]

Yea but now your only a threat because you can kill people when they trip at 0%. Thats gay.

KID, you aren't Espy, X or Speed. So you can't be king of Sonic boards!