Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

ChRed2AKrisp

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Hey Magus420

I was wondering if you knew the mechanics of move staleing/unstaleing

for example, Falcon's stomp ONLY grounds Fox/Falco at 0 percent on the first 16% stomp. I know that repeated use causes them to stale, but I'm wondering how many other moves you need to unstale them

thanks

do moves unstale over time, losing a stock? very unsure, I tried to test with weird results
moves unstale in two ways. by hitting with other moves, and by dying. Dying instantly unstales every move. Hitting with another move will unstale by one unit of staleness, per say. I think moves stale a total of 8 times? REgardless, if i stomp and then uair, my next stomp will be the same as the first stomp because i hit with a uair in between. If i stomp three times in a row, i'm going to have to hit with three other moves before stomping again if i want a fully damaging stomp.
 

s2j

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moves unstale in two ways. by hitting with other moves, and by dying. Dying instantly unstales every move. Hitting with another move will unstale by one unit of staleness, per say. I think moves stale a total of 8 times? REgardless, if i stomp and then uair, my next stomp will be the same as the first stomp because i hit with a uair in between. If i stomp three times in a row, i'm going to have to hit with three other moves before stomping again if i want a fully damaging stomp.
thanks

i'm going to stomp jab reset everything now
 

S l o X

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I was on FD ledge, walljumped (instantly/almost instantly?) and knee'd. I want to know how to do this on command so what exactly do you press to do it, I've tried but I can't get to do it again.
 

Magus420

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moves unstale in two ways. by hitting with other moves, and by dying. Dying instantly unstales every move.
This is correct.

Hitting with another move will unstale by one unit of staleness, per say. I think moves stale a total of 8 times? REgardless, if i stomp and then uair, my next stomp will be the same as the first stomp because i hit with a uair in between. If i stomp three times in a row, i'm going to have to hit with three other moves before stomping again if i want a fully damaging stomp.
This is not, however. Basically, you have a list for stale moves that has 9 slots in it, and it starts off empty and will clear when you die.

After you hit someone with an attack that move gets entered into the front of the list in the 1st 'slot', and any other moves in the list get pushed back to the next slot with the one in the 9th spot being cleared off for good. You need to hit with 9 other attacks since the last time you used the move if for some reason you want to unstale it enough to get it back to full damage.

The slots are weighted, however, with the more recent/lower numbered slots having the strongest reduction in damage output (and for some projectiles it reduces both damage and knockback growth like Brawl's system does on just about every move).

.09 .08 .07 .06 .05 .04 .03 .02 .01

The .09 is the 1st slot and the .01 is the 9th slot. The stale moves multiplier is the total of the numbers for each spot the attack appears in. If for example you begin a match or die (empty stale list), then you hit with a d-air, then a knee, then b-air, then a d-air again; the d-air would be in the 1st and 4th slots, the knee would be in the 3rd slot, and b-air in the 2nd slot. Being in the 1st and 4th spots, the d-air's stale multiplier would be .15 (.09 + .06). The knee's multiplier would be .07, and the b-air's would be .08.

That total for the multiplier is subtracted from 1.00, and the result is what the damage (and KBG for some projectiles) is multiplied by. The d-air (default damage of 16) in the example above would now do 13.60% instead (0.85 x 16). The knee (default 18%) would do 16.74% (0.93 x 18), and the b-air (default 14%) would do 12.88% (0.92 x 14).


Stale moves only affects damage, and does not affect knockback at all with the exception of some projectile B moves. The only reason a fresh stomp at 0% has more KB than a staled one at 0% is because KB is determined using the damage after the hit, and a stomp with 16% total damage is of course going to have more KB than a fully staled one that results in 8.8% total damage (16 x 0.55 = 8.8). If they were to have exactly 7.2% before being hit with the fully staled stomp so that they end up with 16% total after the hit the KB would then be the same as the fresh one at 0%.


Overall it's really not important at all unless you have a projectile KO move like Samus which stales in both damage output and knockback, or you're dealing with specific damage ranges where something is possible or not while using damage before the hit as the reference point, which is obviously easier to keep track of than thinking in terms of how much damage they would have after you hit them.
 

s2j

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interesting, i could have sworn that weaker stomps would never ground them even if they were above 0 percent, they would recoil in pain but not get stomped into the dirt

gunna test later
 

KAOSTAR

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interesting, i could have sworn that weaker stomps would never ground them even if they were above 0 percent, they would recoil in pain but not get stomped into the dirt

gunna test later
Im pretty sure what you mean by getting stomped into the dirt, you stomping them while they Cc.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
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What's with people prefering to fight Shiek/Fox than Falco???

Fox and Shiek have ridiculous things against Falcon, Falco just has the generic Falco combo stuff that he does on everyone.
Falco has lazorz too but he can't shoot them if you knee him in the face before they come out.

Scar, it seemed you had trouble vs Mango (like everyone I guess lol) but do you find that to be a hard match up? Or was it just mango being good? Do you and Jeff/SS trade tips on that match up? He seems to have it down pretty good with the double Falco Zhu/Mango combo in the top of WC.
Just curious to if you're working on that or just had a bad few matches etc. :\
whats up dude

yeah hax and i work very closely in uncovering the secrets of Falcon, and i talked to darkrain a little bit at the end of his reign as top falcon (Hax guaranteed has that spot now), but SS and I actually have never spoken lol

but that'll change

west coast

mango is too good and that's pretty much the answer, shiz and i had a good set but he beat me but he's a great great player, i think he's bad at the match bc that set makes the match look even, which it isn't

and i love thorn but i'm like 3-0 vs him since i got good, he totally trashed the hell out of me about a year ago in tourney but since then we've played 2 moneymatches and 1 tourney set and i've been in control vs him, and he's a phenomenal falco player

anyways yeah i'm west coast now but for pound come on it's january i prob won't even be fully moved out there, east coast for crews (if they need me)
 

DUB

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Cool deal Scar. Not many people get to pretty much move coasts and experience different areas of smash like that. Looking forward to seeing you play SS.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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Im pretty sure what you mean by getting stomped into the dirt, you stomping them while they Cc.
no.

Try it yourself. Play with two humans (one fox, one CF), and first thing run over and stomp fox. He'll fall over, not flinch. Not sure exactly about the mechanics, but an entirely fresh stomp even at 0 will make fox fall over instantly, even without CCing.
 

JPOBS

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scar:
1. when did u move and
2. what makes u say Hax is the best falcon now? (i've thought so for a while but i'd like to knwo your opinion)
 

Tomacawk

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i also think hax is the best falcon right now. imo nesn00b was but he's passed...so i think it's hax now
darkrain is still really good but he isn't the best anymore. he's moved on to bigger and better things than smash
scar isn't safe enough to be the best and hax just has better reads
but it's pretty close. it's not like hax is by far the best
 

Divinokage

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i also think hax is the best falcon right now. imo nesn00b was but he's passed...so i think it's hax now
darkrain is still really good but he isn't the best anymore. he's moved on to bigger and better things than smash
scar isn't safe enough to be the best and hax just has better reads
but it's pretty close. it's not like hax is by far the best
Though Hax did win Saffron City. I think that helps a lot his rankings into being the best Falcon right now.
 

Plairnkk

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hahahah, i did horrible that tourney for lots of reason. but no johns, next time!

i did beat vanz, scar, and hax in MMs, so fux u
 

KAOSTAR

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no.

Try it yourself. Play with two humans (one fox, one CF), and first thing run over and stomp fox. He'll fall over, not flinch. Not sure exactly about the mechanics, but an entirely fresh stomp even at 0 will make fox fall over instantly, even without CCing.
I got ya, I thought he was talking about instead of flying up. Fox just cant handle the pain.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
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im moving this friday

hax is just the best, technically very very strong, VERY safe and gay, tech chases well and combos well

IMO i'm just as fast and finish combos much better than hax but i'm nowhere near as smart on approach, which translates into me getting less opportunities to combo

his approach is where he really shines
 

j00t

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im moving this friday

hax is just the best, technically very very strong, VERY safe and gay, tech chases well and combos well

IMO i'm just as fast and finish combos much better than hax but i'm nowhere near as smart on approach, which translates into me getting less opportunities to combo

his approach is where he really shines
Where can I find videos for proof of this? I'm not doubting Hax's skill but I find it hard to believe that he is better than you or SS.
 
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