Sandbaggin in Friendlies

[[FBC] ESAM]

I don't know if this belonged here or the gentlemen's club...so i did it here because this was my first guess of where to put it...



The only thing sandbagging in friendlies does is make yourself seem selfish. It doesn't help the metagame at all, or increase the strength of our region. All it does is get you an easier shot of winning. However, if you are good enough to win, you won't have to sandbag in order to do so. Friendlies, especially at tournaments, are to learn character matchups and to help the opponent get better. If you are playing somebody and you notice their habits, tell them. Then, they will start to notice it, and get better, or at least shed that one habit. Sandbagging only slows down people's growth as a player, and it doesn't help them unlock their true potential which every single smash player has! Most people can't see their habits on their own. So, they need other people to tell them what they are doing wrong/what they can do instead of what they are abusing (poorly in this case).

You can't expect that from everyone. Some people think short term while some think long term. Short term solution to making money would be to make very vague comments for improvement and sandbagging to keep everyone in their respective region from succeeding, along with doing things like playing other characters than their main, so the match up experience isn't even there.

Long term solution would be to teach them and if they happen to beat you then use that to build yourself up. Making you and your 'opponent' better in OOS tournaments.

tl;dr

STOP SANDBAGGIN AND HELP ATLANTIC SOUTH START ******.

 

[Purple]

*snip*.

You can't expect that from everyone. Some people think short term while some think long term. Short term solution to making money would be to make very vague comments for improvement and sandbagging to keep everyone in their respective region from succeeding, along with doing things like playing other characters than their main, so the match up experience isn't even there.

Long term solution would be to teach them and if they happen to beat you then use that to build yourself up. Making you and your 'opponent' better in OOS tournaments.

While you might look down upon it, sandbagging in friendlies is a strategy and will happen a lot, unless the skill gap between two people is abnormally large.

To be honest though i don't see how much it helps. considering you can watch your next opponents match in tourney, people do it all the time :/

 

[Master Raven]

I've only sandbagged three times.

First time Seibrik came to my place and I was up for over 30 hours and wanted to get the **** to bed when he told me the last match for tonight was coming up.

Second time was when Chaz friendlied me after I beat him in loser's bracket at FIU. I just didn't give much of a **** and wanted to get it over with. It's actually on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTH3oXQnUI

Last time was when Seibrik told me we'd play Melee at my place and we played some Brawl first, and on our last MK ditto I just kinda sandbagged 'cause I was wanting to rush to play Melee lol

I've learned better since though and I never sandbag anymore, even if my intentions weren't really that selfish.

 

[Galeon]

Sandbagging happens. At probably every tourney I've gone to in the past month, I'm sure I've played at least one person in friendlies who wasn't playing their best, their main or in the style they normally would. It'd be nice if everyone tried their best all the time, but some people are going to be too proud, scared, or selfish to do that. Hell, they might be sandbagging because they just don't care or are generally having fun, which is cool. This has been brought up before but I doubt it's gonna change.

Everybody sandbags a little in friendlies sometimes. You've done it too, ESAM (like when I played you at pnt after the tourney some weeks ago. Masky did too). Hell, I've sandbagged people sometimes and I'm probably one of the people who hate it most. If I'm winning by a good bit, I try things that aren't too safe like going out and edgeguarding an MK with footstool combos, grabbing at awkward times, or things like that but I'm not doing that to hinder the other guy. I'll actually use that stuff I find something that works, but that doesn't take away the fact that right now I wouldn't do those types of things in tourney.

 

[QDVS]

People think I SB in friendlies, when a lot of the time it's just how I play...I do it in tourneys too!!!

How I play being trying out new things to see if they work and if so, then I can know it for future use!!!

 

[Sandtru27]

You're a fool if you're fully playing to win in a match that doesn't matter (all friendlies).

I take the opportunity in a lot of friendlies to try out new things (what better place?) and see what works

obviously i'd play differently if asked to do FOR-SERIOUSEEEEEES w/e

lol at the people listing the times they've sandbagged like this is an AA meeting or some intervention shiit

 

[QDVS]

LOL @ Sandtru77

Who the **** are you???

 

[-ACE-]

yo thas some real ****

 

[NES n00b]

All I see in this is "have no fun."

I never sandbag with the intention to keep people down nor do I usually sandbag on purpose even. It is just an inevitability in casual matches.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[bladeofapollo]

Just because somebody isn't playing their main doesn't mean they are sandbagging. Maybe they're trying out a new character and YOU'RE the one being selfish making them stay. Maybe they just got bored of playing one character (this happened to me at Florida Gaming during the F-Zero Challenge).

And as sandtru said, friendlies are the best time to try new things as there is little on the line. If you never try something new, you'll never see if it works and SELDOM do people do things in tournament they're not sure will work because they have something to lose.

Sand-bagging also helps the game stay light-hearted. We all want to get better, but we don't want to sacrifice having fun for it. It's fun every now and then not to try your very hardest; kind of liberating I suppose. And it's not as though people who sandbag do it EVERY FRIENDLY, it's usually after a long while of playing or something.

 

[Galeon]

I guess the situation matters too. I play pretty seriously if I specifically asked someone or someone asked me directly for a match. If I'm playing the guy that's just next in line on the tv, it's whatever

 

[Neon Ness]

Meh. I don't really think it's hurting anyone.

Mostly I do it as a safety precaution. If you play in friendlies like you play in tournament matches, chances are your opponents will read you like a book and have you figured out come tournament time. They'll exploit the flaws in your playstyle beforehand and you won't stand a chance. Plus if the person doesn't know you, you can keep them guessing about which character you main until you actually have to fight them. It's never a good idea to reveal your hand too early. That, and it's not like you can really ever know for certain whether or not someone's sandbagging, so I wouldn't get too worked up over it...

 

[nevershootme]

I have no clue if i'm sandbagging. hell in friendlies i just alternate characters around just to experiment a secondary or "what makes them tick?" and if i get *****, i switch to my main

 

[ZIO]

Oh I sandbag all the time.........and then it became me. Now I suck and I can't get out of it. D: Bros, help me out by not sandbagging when I play!

 

[DRD]

The concept of sandbagging itself aggravates me, because more than a few times I've made some sort of accomplishment or improvement in my game against somebody, and later get to thinkin if they weren't trying their hardest

but it's a necessary evil I think

 

[Dr Peepee]

I can't speak for others, but while I was improving, LoZR sandbagging vs me made me feel like I was improving, that what I had worked hard for(my eventual goal of keeping up with him) was closer to fruition. I always felt inspired after friendlies with him to practice and study hard so that I could make our matches even closer the next time we met.

I probably don't tick the same way everyone else does though, so maybe people need to feel like they don't have any options? I dunno. I can see the good in not sandbagging vs players of somewhat similar skill, which I'm guessing is the topic of discussion. I'd definitely leave it up to the player himself to decide then, as there could be good reasons to sandbag an opponent that one's opponent may not even be aware of.

Hopefully this wasn't a worthless, rambling post....

 

[Master Raven]

Guys ESAM didn't say you shouldn't try out new things.

That's different from just not trying.

 

[spider_sense]

I ALWAYS SANDBAG Eric. :3

But seriously, it doesn't matter if people sandbag you or not, just make sure you play at your best because you can always observe what goes on in a match regardless of what the other player's expectation are. Simply use all the matches as learning experience, and then let that carry over progressively. If you play your hardest (most players) will eventually put more effort, because they'll usually grow tired of losing.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But jason, if you are playing your hardest against somebody who isn't, that means they are playing more sloppy and you are either learning a bad style against a character or the wrong thing to do since they aren't punishing you accordingly. It just doesn't seem fair to the people trying to learn.

Also, i never said anything about not trying out new things. Yeah, you can do that, but you shouldn't be stupid with it. Let's say (melee) you wanna try different comboes or setups with captain falcon. That is fine, but don't be only doing that setup, even when it fails (if it fails). That is differnet also from just kneeing all the time and purposely messing up comboes.

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

Someone clarify for me.

Is Sandbagging barely trying or just doing nothing?

 

[PolMex23]

Heres a solution which has been said countless a times...xD

"Can you please...play for real?" or "Try your ****ing hardest you ****** please i wanna get good!!!" or ect...

This is when I get mad...

Response: "I just can't right now...(johns an other stupid ****ing whiny excuses)

Noel does this an will forever do this cuz hes weak an soft.

To everyone who cant play serious in a friendly or has lil "emo" moments in which they cant fully get over it and concentrate...STOP BEING BABYS!!! Please, in simple terms...****it, stop whining.

U came here to play smash, than ****ing play for reals if I please. Yes, if your demanded to play serious than in gods name try your hardest to do so or be a man an say "not now, give me time to clear my mind. In a moment I WILL be ready"

Smash is so ****ing serious, take it that way when the time comes please.

 

[F Zero]

Someone clarify for me.

Is Sandbagging barely trying or just doing nothing?

There's different ways to do it. Sandbagging is essentially not trying to win/not trying your hardest.

You can sandbag by not taking opportunities, or going for crazy off the stage combos which are risky, but you don't care, so you go for them anyway.

I sandbag about half the friendlies I play.

 

[harriettheguy]

Heres a solution which has been said countless a times...xD

"Can you please...play for real?" or "Try your ****ing hardest you ****** please i wanna get good!!!" or ect...

This is when I get mad...

Response: "I just can't right now...(johns an other stupid ****ing whiny excuses)

Noel does this an will forever do this cuz hes weak an soft.

Have I done this to you? I try to kill you as fast as possible by not camping/dashdance camping so I could approach the maximum smirk threshold between matches in a given amount of time.

 

[PolMex23]

i want to choke you josh...

that makes me happy

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

Now that I know what it means...

I will only sandbag if I'm tired. In which case, after the match, I'll go sit down for 2-3 minutes. Then I'll keep playing.

 

[PolMex23]

ty sir, you have taken a great step to advance not only melee but your own maturity and will power level

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

XD I don't play Melee too often. I play Brawl more.

Although I do play Melee sometimes.

 

[OverLade]

I don't sandbag in friendlies, I just don't play gay like I might do in tournament.

I occasionally take a dumb risk I wouldn't necessarily do but not to the extent where I'm thinking less than I would in tournament.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I just don't play gay like I might do in tournament.

This is the main thing for me. For example I never do grab-release infinites in friendly teams, and in singles if they mess up their recovery I often save them, or just don't go for the ledge hog.

 

[Fenrir VII]

The point of playing friendlies is not to win... period. It is simply to learn stuff about your character and your opponent's... try out new stuff, and experiment.

Anybody doing any of these things will not be playing "their style" or their hardest... but that does not mean they are at fault...

Even in Melee, I played almost completely differently in tournament than I did in a friendly... Was this on purpose? meh.. not really. I was a LOT more aggressive and easier to hit in friendlies since I wanted to try different approaches...

While I agree that intentionally playing poorly to make your opponent unaware of your true skill level does not do anybody any good, nobody should (or should be expected to) play their normal (hardest) style in a friendly.

 

[DRD]

^Agreed

I'd have to say that there's unconscious sandbagging in all friendlies to some extent; all that should matter is sandbagging in tournament.

 

[Sub_Scorpion7]

I sandbag so much...that eventually I don't even know I'm sandbagging.

 

[nevershootme]

I sandbag when playing against kids :-p with captain falcon!

 

[crispyone]

I sandbag so much...that eventually I don't even know I'm sandbagging.

Master sandbagger!

I don't sandbag in friendlies, but I'm thinking of taking it up. It is exhausting playing only fox in friendlies.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ESAM, you're absolutly right.

Just because they're friendlies, dosen't mean they don't affect you as a player. And if you sandbag, you take the ability of growing as a gamer away from your opponent. Now, there is a fine line of sandbagging and using someone for the pure enjoyment of using that character. Take me playing as Luigi, for example. Luigi is my favorite character in Brawl. He's incredible, fun, and has so much potential! But, I'll never go to a smashfest or tourney friendly and put him out right off the bat. As I progress in playing with my opponent, I'll soon play with him, and have a blast doing so. Just, after showing my opponent my best.

Point is, sandbagging is no fun for anyone, so don't do it.

 

[hungrybox]

people get pissed when they play me

so i use other chars

 

[OverLade]

I can appreciate the gayness Hbox.

and I nearly cried listening to "Cash mooney's theme song".

 

[Pi]

I'd like to know what exactly sandbagging is
From my understanding it's 'not playing your best'
Whether it be your character, or a secondary

Now, there are times when I take matches pretty chill, as opposed to fully focused on the match, really trying to win; is this sandbagging?

There are also times when I'm trying to implement something new into my gameplay; is this sandbagging?

I find in the first case the differences in my gameplay are pretty minor, but I just altogether get less upset when I make a mistake as opposed to when I'm really trying to win

 

[uuaa1]

no title

People say i sandbag in friendlies when i really dont.. flukes happen to me alot lol and they take it as a serious sandbagger characteristic.. the only excuse they use against me when they think im sandbaggin is that when im playing my hands move 3/4 fast than fully fast xDDD

But i DO agree on one thing with ESAM, You should always play your hardest even if your trying out new things or not. it improves both of the players. It makes the opponent better and it makes you stay set and good.



- uuaa