Ryusuta
Smash Master
Battlefield is a good choice for Ivysaur in this match-up, and that's a very common starter.
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Samus Matchup Listing
- Thread starter ADHD
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Its open for arguements, please go ahead and edit what you think... Its from personal tounry experience.
Sir O.
QQ?
No, its not, have you ever actually played a very good Samus? PT is a bad character in general, ive seen you QQ int he Tier lists as well and try to argue your point, which is really, why are you here when you almost know nothing about Samus?
Link can outcamp her pretty well. Its sad, but true. Link is a lot better, just his recovery is a </3
Ness is a horrible matchup, her slow downtime in the air is a horrible thing, anyone who knows how to use a bat well, dodge, or when to absorb, will beat you. also being aggressive against a Samus is a thing to do, ness is good at this. infact too good when fighting a Samus. Or maybe Ness is too good? Oh shi..
Lucas is there.
You really need to be close for a kill move on Ike, IE she has no real ranged killing move other then charged shot, on Ike, in the middle of BF its around 160% to KO him, a ike who can simply hit your four times due to her floatiness, which a Ike can simply wait for you to airdodge and Roflcopter you can kill you at 85%. Other things come into play also.
Olimar is yes. Grabs are his only real threat as her disjointed hitboxes beat him in the air, Zair ***** ground, Simply pressing Neutral A to smack pikmin off, then edgeing like gimping a ivy.
In a term to say, this is all argueable. Ive just seen Sir O QQ a lot in plenty of threads lately, and I do not believe he has any real liable tounry experence.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Yoshi vs. Samus is 60:40 Yoshi at best (for Samus), and already was agreed upon on Xyro's old Matchup Thread before it died. She has really nothing on Yoshi except Zair, and her Projectiles are mostly beaten out by Yoshi's Aerials.
PS: Never list to Ravin.... EVER
PS: Never list to Ravin.... EVER
Hive
Smash Lord
actually I think P.T. has a slight advantage on the whole (55-45) ... or its even....
Olimar I really don't think has a disadvantage against samus though... he can outspam her, has great range and power on his smashes, and on his grab, and is a small target...
the best thing samus has going for her in the match though is that Olimar's recovery blows
Olimar I really don't think has a disadvantage against samus though... he can outspam her, has great range and power on his smashes, and on his grab, and is a small target...
the best thing samus has going for her in the match though is that Olimar's recovery blows
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Let's lay off of the ad hominem crap here and stick to the issues. You've made some completely... well, stupid claims about Samus' match-ups and haven't given anything reasonable to back them up. A 90-10 match-up is considered so broken by tournament standards that the disadvantaged person can be put into a situation in which they actually CAN'T fight back, and very easily. To put this in perspective, Mario vs. DeDeDe is a match in which DeDeDe can infinite Mario right out of the gate and one grab means one stock on Mario's part. It's still only considered a 70-30 DeDeDe.
To say that Samus has some sort of ability that is even more vicious than this and somehow offsets the fact that she's a very floaty, laggy, weak character is completely ridiculous. Either come up with some hard evidence (PROTIP: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE DOESN'T COUNT), or don't get all uppity when I call you out on it.
Hive
Smash Lord
I think he was using 90-10 (for example) as the win/loss percentage samus should expect instead of the standard format though...
or else, yea, those numbers wouldn't make much sense...
ps: if your ever near norcal Orion I'd love to play! pm me or something ^^ I see you a lot on P.T. boards and you seem pretty informed..
or else, yea, those numbers wouldn't make much sense...
ps: if your ever near norcal Orion I'd love to play! pm me or something ^^ I see you a lot on P.T. boards and you seem pretty informed..
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Just the same, I think a 90% win ratio in the metagame is expecting WAY too much.
Hive
Smash Lord
I agree ^^ like I said before... But it makes more sense thinking of it that way, right?
I have yet to see anyone argue the Pikachu Samus matchup.
Owait.
Srsly.
For the record, I am not about to start a debate with someone who hardly plays Samus to begin to tell you her ups and downs.
And this has nothign to do with mario vs d3? your the one saying focus on the issue.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
First of all, whether I play Samus or not is irrelevant.
Second, you have no idea whatsoever who I play or how much I play them.
Third, the above quote was obviously a deliberate cop-out because you don't have anything to say regarding this.
It was a basis for comparison. A very direct one, too. I'm a little concerned that you weren't able to make the connection.
I disagree with the Link match-up. When I compare his camping game to a good Pit's or a good Falco's, or even R.O.B.'s it's not really difficult to get around. And I definitely disagree that she has a harder time with Link than Pit. Pit's arrow spam is much worse than Link's due to the frequency of the shots, and Pit has better answers to her projectiles than Link does. Pit's side B can attack and reflect projectiles at the same time, and his mirror shield blocks everything, including normal attacks. And Pit is harder to kill due to his recovery options.
I've also had a harder time with Lucas than I ever have with Ness. Lucas is always in a position in which he can attack and defend against a fully charged shot at the same since his pk fire always fires horizontally, while Ness' fires diagonally down in the air. That means that in the air Lucas doesn't have to try and anticipate a charged shot, he can just toss out pk fire to be on the safe side, which forces Samus to avoid it or cancel it out. Lucas can also reflect all of Samus' arsenal with his stick like Ness can with his bat. He's also better than Ness off the stage. I remember going for a spike against my buddy who was Lucas and his pk thunder traveled through me. I ended up getting hit with that and an electrified Lucas, but against Ness him hitting me with the thunder would have screwed his recovery.
Ike can be a problem, but he has few ways to deal with projectiles. All he can really do is powershield through them, and if you mix the projectiles up with zair he'll usually have a hard time getting through. His recovery is also pretty easy to take advantage of. If he's trying a side B to recover you can just jump in front of him and either take the hit or dodge. Either way, if he's too far out he's not coming back. If he's trying to use aether you can edge hog with the tether. I'd at least say that Marth is tougher to deal with than Ike.
Olimar is hard to hit with zair because of his size, and his ground game is stronger than being nullified by just pressing A. Between his throw which is hard to see coming, tossing the Pikmin, and his smashes he's a problem. His recovery is trash, but it's a pain getting him off the stage in the first place.
Hive
Smash Lord
its also samus best level... so it wouldn't do well as a counterpick ^^
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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I disagree. Whats wrong with Ravin?Yoshi vs. Samus is 60:40 Yoshi at best (for Samus), and already was agreed upon on Xyro's old Matchup Thread before it died. She has really nothing on Yoshi except Zair, and her Projectiles are mostly beaten out by Yoshi's Aerials.
PS: Never list to Ravin.... EVER
This isn't true. Orly said 50:50, Hylian said 50:50, Smash Gigas said 60:40 Samus favor, Xyro said 60:40 Samus favor, I Feel Asleep said 70:30 Samus favor(possibly 80:20), and Serris said 60:40 Yoshi (possibly 45:55). The general consensus was that Samus has the advantage or the match-up is even.Yoshi vs. Samus is 60:40 Yoshi at best (for Samus), and already was agreed upon on Xyro's old Matchup Thread before it died. She has really nothing on Yoshi except Zair, and her Projectiles are mostly beaten out by Yoshi's Aerials.
PS: Never list to Ravin.... EVER
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191376&page=7
^Link to last page of thread^
Personally I say 50:50. I've never had any issues with Yoshi, but I've never felt I had any overwhelming advantages either.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Samus is at a decided disadvantage against Yoshi. She can't spam him, she can't keep him at bay with Z air, she has a LOT less knockback and damage potential than Yoshi, he completely out-pokes her, Yoshi has nearly DOUBLE her air speed AND ground speed, and she's not going to edge guard him.
I wouldn't give Yoshi a HUGE advantage here (I'd go with Mmac's 60-40 analysis), but yes, he definitely leads this match.
I wouldn't give Yoshi a HUGE advantage here (I'd go with Mmac's 60-40 analysis), but yes, he definitely leads this match.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
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How the hell is Samus vs. Dedede neutral? Infinite standing grab=Samus has no chance.
Mmac
Smash Lord
First of all, Orly Said 70:30 Yoshi. Where did you get 50:50 from? http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5270432&postcount=35
Hylian gave no explanation for his Ratio
Smash Gigas gave one of the worst thesis I have ever seen for Yoshi, And try to push that not only Footstooling interception was a good tactic, It was a MANDATORY Tactic (Sound familiar? Ravin did the exact same thing).
Xyro's Thesis was lack luster at best, and made out like all you had to do was knock him off and go onto the ledge to win. Do you really think that Yoshi's Recovery is THAT horrible?
I feel asleep completely admitted that the only Yoshi he had play in his entire life was complete garbage, don't you think that should make his opinion Void?
Serris is the only one I knew he played a good Yoshi, because he played against me. Ask him how badly I destroyed his Samus
ADHD
Smash Hero
So do you guys suggest me change yoshi vs samus to 60-40 in yoshi's favor?
D
Deleted member
Guest
I think its even personally(sorry mmac). 55-45 yoshi id say. Samus cant spam too well, but zair is an excellent move against someone who cant shield it and keep going. Yoshi can ETS away from it, which is good, but until yoshi gets close range, its samus' favor. Inside, yoshi has a superior jab, ftilt, and amazing grab to help with the matchup, and as long as yoshi doesnt jab samus' shield(up b OOS is crazy annoying), yoshi can dominate in this range.
I havent played a samus in a while(never in tournament, just friendlies), but on paper and from past experiences thats how it seems. o and yoshi out edgeguards samus.
I havent played a samus in a while(never in tournament, just friendlies), but on paper and from past experiences thats how it seems. o and yoshi out edgeguards samus.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Yeah, but other than Zair, what exactly does she have to gain an upperhand on Yoshi? Zair is annoying as hell, but she doesn't really have anything else to rely onto gain an solid advantage. Plus it can be completely avoided by talking an high route to close the distance, or even Crawling.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Three words: second jump armor.
First of all, that was 70:30 in Samus favor... He said on the next page after he considered what you said he thought the matchup to be neutral, as is seen on this page.First of all, Orly Said 70:30 Yoshi. Where did you get 50:50 from? http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5270432&postcount=35
Hylian gave no explanation for his Ratio
Smash Gigas gave one of the worst thesis I have ever seen for Yoshi, And try to push that not only Footstooling interception was a good tactic, It was a MANDATORY Tactic (Sound familiar? Ravin did the exact same thing).
Xyro's Thesis was lack luster at best, and made out like all you had to do was knock him off and go onto the ledge to win. Do you really think that Yoshi's Recovery is THAT horrible?
I feel asleep completely admitted that the only Yoshi he had play in his entire life was complete garbage, don't you think that should make his opinion Void?
Serris is the only one I knew he played a good Yoshi, because he played against me. Ask him how badly I destroyed his Samus
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191376&page=5
EDIT: He says it plainly here
Second, you're statement was still a lie. The thread did not come to a conclusion that Yoshi had the advantage there like you claimed. Besides that, you spanking Serris might just say that you happen to be better than him. You spanking all Samus just as badly, or other Yoshi's consistently spanking Samus players would make me believe he has an advantage. From my experiences it's neutral.
You wanna argue your point, that's one thing. But saying we came to a conclusion that Yoshi had the advanatge is false. I'm actually still waiting on the vids of you swatting a fully charged shot with Yoshi's Bair as well.
D
Deleted member
Guest
orion, Id prefer to not take 7 damage just to get zoned again.
Mmac
Smash Lord
You know It would help if you would direct the post, as Page 5 doesn't exist for me.
Know what, I was wrong. Sorry. I was going off of memory being that there hasn't been a proper discussion for almost 2 Months, and was buried. Sorry....
And people still want that? That was like what? 3 Months ago? Is it really that major anyways? It's already been proved that Yoshi's Airs stop her common projectiles cold, which is much more important to the matchup.
Know what, I was wrong. Sorry. I was going off of memory being that there hasn't been a proper discussion for almost 2 Months, and was buried. Sorry....
And people still want that? That was like what? 3 Months ago? Is it really that major anyways? It's already been proved that Yoshi's Airs stop her common projectiles cold, which is much more important to the matchup.
His Aerials stop the projectiles, which gives him a way to get through. Characters with the advantages stop Samus directly, thus shutting the projectile game down completely. Falco and Pit are good examples.
I just wouldn't give Yoshi the same advantage I would give Marth, who can also handle the projectiles with his aerials.
If you know any good Yoshi's down in Atlanta that are around your level of skill I'd be happy to play them and confirm whether or not he has the advantage. But from my experiences it's neutral. Don't know if you would consider them good or not so if you know of any it would be helpful.
I just wouldn't give Yoshi the same advantage I would give Marth, who can also handle the projectiles with his aerials.
If you know any good Yoshi's down in Atlanta that are around your level of skill I'd be happy to play them and confirm whether or not he has the advantage. But from my experiences it's neutral. Don't know if you would consider them good or not so if you know of any it would be helpful.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
I dont see how this can be in Samus Favor.
It's neutral or Yoshi....*gets shot for biased opinion*
It's neutral or Yoshi....*gets shot for biased opinion*
Serris
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
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Samus's fully-charged shot goes through Yoshi's back-air.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
(This post doesn't exist.)
xXTACXx
Smash Journeyman
id make falco at least 15 85. facing a good falco is EXTREMELY difficult, just as hard or harder than olimar in my opinion.
Crystanium
Smash Hero
What? If you can get Falco down to one stock and throw in some damage before being KO'd, that hardly merits for being "EXTREMELY difficult." The tactic that is commonly used by Falco players is chain-grabbing, and Falco's chain-grab has nothing on Samus. If Falco's chain-grab was like that of King DeDeDe's, then that would be a different story.
Serris
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Get short-hop double-lasered. Destroys Samus's ability to approach.
Poltergust
Smash Master
However, a fully-charged Charge Shot can be stopped by Yoshi's n-air. All of the other types of projectiles can be stopped with his b-air
Really, the only think that Samus has going for her here is her z-air, which can be jumped or crawled over.
Not to mention that once Yoshi gets in close Samus won't really be able to do much. He out-ranges her and is much quicker. If she goes to the air, Yoshi can follow her without any worries because his air-game is much better than hers. Samus HAS to play a ranged game if she has any chance of dealing with Yoshi. Even then it is even because her missiles come out at around the same speed as Yoshi's eggs. If you cancel it, the first missile will just sail over Yoshi's head.
There is also the lack of kill moves. Since Yoshi is a heavyweight, it is going to be hard to KO him at any percentage under 150% as Samus. Now, I know that Samus is good at damage racking, but only when she is in close-quarters, which Yoshi does better in. Gimping is not an option unless you somehow trick them. On the other hand, Yoshi can gimp Samus quite well with his d-air since that goes through Samus' Screw Attack. N-air also does well in making it harder for Samus to recover.
I believe that it is 6:4 Yoshi. I just can't see it being neutral at all.
Really, the only think that Samus has going for her here is her z-air, which can be jumped or crawled over.
Not to mention that once Yoshi gets in close Samus won't really be able to do much. He out-ranges her and is much quicker. If she goes to the air, Yoshi can follow her without any worries because his air-game is much better than hers. Samus HAS to play a ranged game if she has any chance of dealing with Yoshi. Even then it is even because her missiles come out at around the same speed as Yoshi's eggs. If you cancel it, the first missile will just sail over Yoshi's head.
There is also the lack of kill moves. Since Yoshi is a heavyweight, it is going to be hard to KO him at any percentage under 150% as Samus. Now, I know that Samus is good at damage racking, but only when she is in close-quarters, which Yoshi does better in. Gimping is not an option unless you somehow trick them. On the other hand, Yoshi can gimp Samus quite well with his d-air since that goes through Samus' Screw Attack. N-air also does well in making it harder for Samus to recover.
I believe that it is 6:4 Yoshi. I just can't see it being neutral at all.
xXTACXx
Smash Journeyman
falco is the perfect counter of samus, his lasers ruin her approach and spacing, he can cg samus but by hiting her with a Dair, then your set up for another grab, this can give samus up to 80% dmg and the only ay out of ths is to outsmart him. if you can gt a falco off the edge and you have some ability to play off edge it makes it a lot easier but with his spacing avdvantage over samus good luck in trying to get him off the edge, unless he goes after you like a noob. Not to mention he has a reflector shield to samus's big blue thing and missiles making it a lil harder to set up combo's and a lot harder to nail him with a charge shot. Falco has god fast dodging abilities and has the advantage over samus in close range matchup.
during my set with sethlon a while back i found that if i played him on fd it was hard but it seemed to lean in my favor, this rarely happens when i play great falco players, sethlon plays a offensive falco, the kind of falco i was talking about was defensive falco's, now while i played him on BF i kept running into his grabs, tho it was a lot easier to get him off the edge and spike the **** outta him :hipsmile:
ADHD
Smash Hero
airdodge to zair, ever hear of it?
Rawr_
Smash Apprentice
Why isn't this stickied? o.O
Sago
Smash Lord
diddy is impossible like 0-100 f that kid