Samus Matchup Listing

[ADHD]

Advantage:
Bowser (80-20)
Ivysaur (80-20)
Ganondorf (80-20)
Charizard (60-40)
Link (60-40)
Hard-Nipps Falcon (60-40)

Neutral:
Sonic (55-45)
Lucas (55-45)
Donkey Kong (55-45)
Fox (55-45)
Jigglypuff (55-45)
Ice climbers (50-50)
Samus (50-50)
Yoshi (45-55)
Pit (45-55)
Mario (45-55)
Sheik (45-55)

Disadvantage:
Falco (40-60)
Peach (40-60)
ZSS (40-60)
Diddy Kong (40-60)
Ike (40-60)
R.O.B. (35-65)
Squirtle (35-65)
Ness (35-65)
Luigi (35-65)
Marth (35-65)
Pikachu (35-65)
Lucario (35-65)
Wario (35-65)
Zelda (35-65)
Toon Link (35-65)
Kirby (30-70)
Snake (30-70) SNAKE DESTROYS SAMUS GOD DAMMIT!!!
Metaknight (30-70)
G&W (30-70)
King Dedede (25-75) Just counterpick lol
Olimar (25-75)

 

[Crystanium]

It's about time we start discussing matchups. This is the exact same style as the sheik board matchup listing, since it's simple and effective. Tell me what you guys think, what should be changed, etc.

Favorable
Ganondorf (80-20)
Charizard (70-30)
Bowser (70-30)
Captain Falcon (70-30)
Ike (70-30)
Diddy Kong (60-40)
Donkey Kong (60-40)
Ice Climbers (60-40)
Peach (60-40)
Ivysaur (60-40)
Jigglypuff (60-40)

Even
Fox (55-45)
King dedede (60-40 without infinite) (55-45 with infinite)
Link (55-45)
Lucario (55-45)
Sonic (55-45)
R.O.B. (50-50)
Samus (50-50)
Mario (45-55)
Marth (45-55)
Pit (45-55)
Sheik (45-55)
Toon Link (45-55)
Yoshi (45-55)
Zero Suit Samus (45-55)

Unfavorable
Falco (40-60)
Lucas (40-60)
Luigi (40-60)
Ness (40-60)
Wario (40-60)
Wolf (40-60)
Zelda (40-60)
Squirtle (40-60)
Pikachu (40-60)
Meta Knight (30-70)
Snake (30-70)
Kirby (30-70)
Mr. Game & Watch (25-75)
Olimar (25-75)

This thread has been approved by Dryn.

 

[Brinzy]

I don't use Samus, so could you explain to me why Squirtle's a disadvantageous matchup?

 

[ADHD]

I don't use Samus, so could you explain to me why Squirtle's a disadvantageous matchup?

His aerials are lightning speed, he is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to hit on the ground. His recovery sucks though, but he's very hard to spike as his horizontal DI is the best in the game.

I was thinking we should add strategies to this and just make it a matchup guide later on.

 

[Jing)]

Snake and Kirby dont own samus .. its pretty much even dude

 

[ADHD]

Snake and Kirby dont own samus .. its pretty much even dude

Snake is not even no doubt, his KO power is ridiculous. It seems even when you're going against a "good snake" but when you go against higher level snakes you realize its not near her favor.
His ground game is WAY better, his bair has better range than any of your aerials except maybe your uair. His projectiles are more powerful, its very difficult to spike a smart snake, and he kills you around 100ish percent with his utilt. Plus, it takes around 150 percent damage to kill him, which is a bummer.

Kirby ***** samus in the air I believe with his aerial priority and he is difficult to spike, zair, hit with missles. His fsmash also ***** you on the ground. Although he is light... I'm considering changing him to 40-60, but then again samus has trouble killing so I don't know.

 

[Jing)]

Snake cant dash attack Samus
Snake cant tilt Samus
Snake cant outspam Samus

Yes he owns her hardcore.

 

[ADHD]

Snake cant dash attack Samus
Snake cant tilt Samus
Snake cant outspam Samus

Yes he owns her hardcore.

And you've never gotten tilted before by snake as samus?

I don't believe you.

Gernades slip under the missle spam.

He can easily avoid the smash missles and homing missles. If he's not stupid, he's not going to mortar slide into them either.

Hit and run only works online.

 

[Rohins]

I'd reverse the Samus Lucario matchup, if not put it even more in Lucario's favor. Hitboxes + Samus' inability to kill at low % allow for Lucario to get the high% bonus without feeling too threatened.

I've played vs good Snakes and G&W's, they're tough because of their KO ability but you can control their space.

Vs Snake: If they want to try to grenade spam do uncharged spam + some missiles. If you catch them trying to drop their grenade they will be stuck in their shield with a nade on top of them. In general, stay out of his tilt range and make the match really uncomfortable forcing him to approach. If you approach him while he's prepared, you will get tilted / grabbed / jabbed.

Vs G&W: He has very laggy aerials. If you catch him trying to approach with them stay slightly out of the way and pivot grab him. You can upB and uair through his dair if you catch it at the right angle. If he jumps in the air from a distance, zair. I don't think it's guaranteed but I've had success with grab release -> dtilt for higher % kills.

 

[Jing)]

And you've never gotten tilted before by snake as samus?

I don't believe you.

Gernades slip under the missle spam.

He can easily avoid the smash missles and homing missles. If he's not stupid, he's not going to mortar slide into them either.

Hit and run only works online.

uncharged shot / zair > dash/tilts
samus beats him in a projectile fight, ive tested it

 

[ll Mafia ll]

I absolutely disagree with the Lucario match up.
Make it like... 20 - 80 Lucario.

One. His roll, REALLY FAST. Very easy to get around lots of things actually.
Two. Aura Sphere. More spammable. And gets to be an extremely good KO move.
Three. Aura. Annoying as hell. Samus = Lack of kill moves... doesn't match at all with Lucario in Samus's favor.

Some more notes on Lucario. I had a harder time with missiles on online, but they should be okay.
The dair that Lucario spams as much as Samus, lol, sometimes trades hits with up B. Since the dair of lucario stalls him, just Up B at the right time. But the up b provides a good method of getting rid of the dair Lucario loves to spam from above.
As for in air combos by Lucario, SEX KICK LIKE CRAZY. Just try and get the nair in to throw things off.
Lucario's up b just screams GIMP ME. Dair, then tether, or ledge grab. Just watch out for the wall cling on FD or such, it's pretty annoying.
Hmm, overall, I don't like lucario. The Aura increases the range of attacks, and the F smash tippered kills well.


About Game and Watch....
I would not be so harsh on Samus with Game and Watch.
Maybe 35 - 65.

It does have a lot of priority in attacks, so watch the missiles be canceled out.
Another thing one has to worry about is the bucket.... so, that will be a little reminder of not to screw up the charge shot.
His dair has KO potential, and I think it trades hits with up b. UP B might work, can't remember all that well.
Not a bad height for Zair though.


And a suggestion for the thread.
I would edit the match ups and add on summaries based off discussion in thread.
Like, people might add some more to Game and Watch, and you could add a small description under the character names.
Kinda like the If smash characters were true to their games tier list thing.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I absolutely disagree with the Lucario match up.
Make it like... 20 - 80 Lucario.

Over at the Lucario boards, we have the match-up labeled as 65:35 in Lucario's advantage.

One. His roll, REALLY FAST. Very easy to get around lots of things actually.
Two. Aura Sphere. More spammable. And gets to be an extremely good KO move.
Three. Aura. Annoying as hell. Samus = Lack of kill moves... doesn't match at all with Lucario in Samus's favor.

Some more notes on Lucario. I had a harder time with missiles on online, but they should be okay.
The dair that Lucario spams as much as Samus, lol, sometimes trades hits with up B. Since the dair of lucario stalls him, just Up B at the right time. But the up b provides a good method of getting rid of the dair Lucario loves to spam from above.
As for in air combos by Lucario, SEX KICK LIKE CRAZY. Just try and get the nair in to throw things off.
Lucario's up b just screams GIMP ME. Dair, then tether, or ledge grab. Just watch out for the wall cling on FD or such, it's pretty annoying.
Hmm, overall, I don't like lucario. The Aura increases the range of attacks, and the F smash tippered kills well.

The Aura doesn't increase range. Only damage and knockback/launch speed.

I agree with most of this, except maybe Lucario's up-B being easily gimpable. Lucario can always just recover low, and Samus wont be able to D-air him. I've never been spiked due to Extreme Speed, although I must admit I've never played any top-notch Samus'. And, as you addressed, he always has the option to wall cling on some stages.

 

[ADHD]

Eh, I found lucario easy but I guess it should be 35-65 in his favor.

 

[DarkKyanite]

umm, i really don't think samus is 70-30 against falcon
but o well, hard for u guys to know since the chances of a good falcon fights a good samus is really rare
i'll let u guys figure it out later

and i also think that falco should be more of a nightmare than G&W to samus

this should really be discussed by real pro samus players who've foguth pros whom main each individual chars

 

[ll Mafia ll]

@ Sol.
When I meant the aura increased the range of his attacks, I meant like... the lingering hitboxes and such that Lucario has. The F smash is an example.
I just mean that lucario does not have to actually make physical contact to hit.
And Samus doesn't mind low recoveries, lol.
Run straight off edge dair.

 

[ADHD]

Gum is a pro samus basically.

He told me you just have to bait him to the edge and its a stock off once he's offstage.

Falco's not that bad seriously... it's just his lazers that get in the way everything else is reasonable.

Dark kyanite, tell me what falcon has over samus, because really I doubt that you've fought a good samus either, all he has is speed.

Do you really think samus sucks that hard to not have a large advantage against captain falcon?

 

[ll Mafia ll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMwbSS9FQt8

That is the annoyance of Falco Laser.

 

[ADHD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMwbSS9FQt8

That is the annoyance of Falco Laser.

Yeah, it's really annoying...

 

[DarkKyanite]

yea well, my body's and i r either the best or 2nd falcon and samus player in SD
we train together everyday
i don't want to say i am pro or he is
but i am ranked top 13 in SD by using falcon and falcon only
my friend studied tudor's samus a lot and in my opinion, he's the only pro samus player in SD

not saying we r incredible but both of us play each other almost everyday and we both agree that when a fast character that can juggle really good and can break through samus' missles and zairs with litle trouble r not easy for samus

one thing falcon definitely has against samus is the jab grab
1 jab -> grab is definitely
uthrow after grab to launch samus into the air for falcon's uair juggle
and thx to samus' floatiness falcon can throw in a lot of uairs b4 samus touch the ground so at least 1 should land lol
hm i thikn i will uplaod a video of him playing against me tmr, and u guys can decide if it helps or not
just saying won't really prove anything hope it'll help =)


and from my friend's opinion, falco's a really hard match up because the laser pretty much stops zair or missles completely
without those to keep the opponent far away and plus falco has advantage in close range fight over samus. i don't really c why samus should fear G&W more than falco

i'll come back with the vid tmr


edit: actually, i have some vids of me and him playing, but not against each other
u can take a look and c how u think of us first.


me against my friend's tlink 1~3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq-eHIMJslA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S56cqocv--M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNYhen_6dWU&feature=related


my friend jala aginst the same tlink 1~2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5c8SnG2plk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AEe1rrXO3A <--- jala's favor one lol

 

[ADHD]

You can airdodge to zair with falco. You just have to get him off stage and its a stock. Onstage samus can put up a good fight too.

GnW has ridiculous priority against her and really he is very hard to get close in. He can up b over the missles and such and charge shots are somewhat useless unless you time them very well.

He is also small.. very bad.

 

[stealthsushi]

Meta Knight (30-70) >>>> Proposed (40-60)
I'd say the MK matchup is closer to 40-60. Samus has a pretty good defensive game given her Homing Missiles, Z-Air, Bombs, and Uncharged Shot to challenge MK's dash-attacks, approaches, and mach tornado. Although MK has the priority advantage in the air, Samus has the Z-Air. Samus' gimping abilities are severely hindered by MK's ridiculous recovery options, but her Z-Air and homing missiles makes for a relatively safe edge-guard vs. his shuttle loop; you can force MK into a poor recovery position and try to land a D-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air, or F-Smash to for the kill. An uphill battle, but I don't think its that heavily in MK's favor. Samus has ways to work around him.

Snake (30-70) >>> Proposed: (40-60)
I'd also give the Snake matchup 40-60 since Samus can last a pretty good amount of time vs. Snake (barring U-Tilt kills). F-Tilt is usually decayed in most of the situations and its very difficult to kill Samus horizontally. Her recovery options and flexibility help her get by Snake's edge guarding. The ranged grab gives her an extra advantage in gimping Snake's recovery. In the aerial department, Samus can dominate here with her quick aerial into ground comboes given Snake's heavy weight. While Snake has a huge advantage on the ground and can camp with grenades, Samus should be able to hold on using a combination of uncharged shots, missiles, and Z-Air until she gets Snake into the air. Bombs can help vs. Snake's Snakedash approaches. Killing Snake will take some effort, but charged shots and D-Air / Z-Air gimps are possible if the opportunity is present.

Good to see the Sheik Board's match-up template making its way around :D Go Sheik!!

 

[Dobs1007]

I agree with the chart for the most part the small characters can give Samus trouble you just have to have the timing really down for the zair. Snake at first I thought was brutal but not that bad just uncharged shots and zair and go for dair gimps. IMO a very good skilled Metaknight and Olimar are most difficult characters for Samus.

 

[imdavid]

haha when my friend picks PT and uses squirtle i just fair spam until i get to the ledge area, camp the ledge area until i can get a back throw and then get a spike XD the only pokemon that gives me trouble is ivysaur, but that's just because i suck with samus ^^

 

[ll Mafia ll]

Lol.
No to the Captain beats Samus.
Airdodge > Up air.

The captain really doesn't have any follow up combos.... no hitstun eh.

 

[Irsic]

I was playing a meta knight today and for the first time in a while I chose Samus.

Well, to the point. I tore the meta player up with Samus. I had pretty much given up on her too until today.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Against snake i would say that its 55-45 snake's favor. From my experience it's easy to avoid grenades and C-4s, tilts are irritating, but not overbearing, zair is very good at pressuring snake, although if you don't do it really close to the ground he can mortar slide under it. The only big problem i have against snakes is his d-throw techchase since the snake i played today is very good at it.

Snake's recovery is VERY easily gimped, like if a snake for some odd reason tries to get on the stage by going under, run off, and double jump a dair right next to him, he can't to ANYTHING. I got so many gimp kills today off of this snake who kept trying to go under, and sometimes i would force him to go under. At 0 i got a jab combo (now snake is off the edge) f-tilt (gimped his jump) and he went under the stage and i daired him.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Why would the matchup between Sonic and Samus be even?
I am rather curious about this.

 

[Mars-]

Eh, I found lucario easy but I guess it should be 35-65 in his favor.

You see this is the problem on making these. There is no definate pro level for brawl yet. And your opinion is worthless until you are a top level samus playing other top level players and realize what these top level matches have in favor for each character. I'm sure I can do well against a bunch of noobs, and I'm sure I could beat people at equal skill level, however when it is pro level the matchups are completely different.

 

[theshortgamer]

Why would the matchup between Sonic and Samus be even?
I am rather curious about this.

I don't like fighting sonic when using samus, both have trouble killing and both have great recovery... imagine what should be a 3 minute fight going on for 7 minutes cause no one can kill the other.

 

[Pi]

If your matches last in the 3 minute area then either someone got spiked (3 times), or someone isn't playing brawl correctly. Air dodge *****s...

 

[ADHD]

You see this is the problem on making these. There is no definate pro level for brawl yet. And your opinion is worthless until you are a top level samus playing other top level players and realize what these top level matches have in favor for each character. I'm sure I can do well against a bunch of noobs, and I'm sure I could beat people at equal skill level, however when it is pro level the matchups are completely different.

I'm welcome to change it whenever in the future.....

 

[KingChaos]

Samus is not very good at fighting sonic spins go under supers and uncharged blast she cant keep up with sonics speed and cant gimp him very hard to zair him since he is always runin around at the speed of sound a good sonic is just way to quick for samus its a very long hard match to win.

 

[Hylian]

I completly disagree with about 95% of this list. Where are you getting these numbers from? It seems like almost NO thought was put into this list or you just don't understand how those characters are played at high levels.

 

[Kitamerby]

I completly disagree with about 95% of this list. Where are you getting these numbers from? It seems like almost NO thought was put into this list or you just don't understand how those characters are played at high levels.

Tips or GTFO.

You're really not helping. Please, if you're going to complain, at least create a substitute list of your own to help out.

 

[Hylian]

Tips or GTFO.

You're really not helping. Please, if you're going to complain, at least create a substitute list of your own to help out.

I'm typing on my wii, so I'm not going to make a huge post, sorry.

I just don't like people posting false information as fact, and having baseless claims. Theres not even any discussion or reasoning.

Also, I'm not arrogant enough to think I know how samus should match-up against every character. You learn match-ups through experience with skilled players. Not from idle thoughts in your head.

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm typing on my wii, so I'm not going to make a huge post, sorry.

I just don't like people posting false information as fact, and having baseless claims. Theres not even any discussion or reasoning.

Also, I'm not arrogant enough to think I know how samus should match-up against every character. You learn match-ups through experience with skilled players. Not from idle thoughts in your head.

I never said you could. But instead of just posting how everything's wrong, could you at least give us a few tips on the matchups you do know about? Ratings make a good job of visualizing the difficulty of a match, and that's why we use them.

Honestly, though, if we were all good enough to be ABSOLUTELY SURE on every matchup, would we be browsing SWF looking at guides? :3

 

[Hylian]

I never said you could. But instead of just posting how everything's wrong, could you at least give us a few tips on the matchups you do know about? Ratings make a good job of visualizing the difficulty of a match, and that's why we use them.

Honestly, though, if we were all good enough to be ABSOLUTELY SURE on every matchup, would we be browsing SWF looking at guides? :3

Your missing my point. I don't think this topic is useful at all.

And I already HAVE posted a lot about match-ups. I wrote a ****ing essay on Samus vs Marth. In fact, I spent months playing samus only, and finding out all the information I could and sharing it with the boards.

No one cared about samus back then except like 5 people :/.



Edit: Upon further thought, I really just don't like the fact that he posted a list prior to discussion. That's my only problem.

Go look at the first post of the G&W match-up thread. That is how it should be done.

 

[Mars-]

Yeah hylian is right. Beside this list is coming from some melee kid who couldn't adapt.

He acts like he is really good but doesn't have even a basic understanding of how his mains work.

 

[ADHD]

I'm typing on my wii, so I'm not going to make a huge post, sorry.

I just don't like people posting false information as fact, and having baseless claims. Theres not even any discussion or reasoning.

Also, I'm not arrogant enough to think I know how samus should match-up against every character. You learn match-ups through experience with skilled players. Not from idle thoughts in your head.

Okay, well later, just tell me what should be changed.

Mars, go away. If I act like I'm good, well I am, but I'm not great. I have alot to improve on.

 

[Mars-]

Okay, well later, just tell me what should be changed.

Mars, go away. If I act like I'm good, well I am, but I'm not great. I have alot to improve on.

Didn't you learn from my thread I made? So easy to troll you but yeah, everyone can improve I have a lot more tourny experience then you (basing this off of your join date) and have probably seen much more then you. Your post isn't bad and it's a good idea but like I said before you can't really make an accurate matchup list right now there aren't undisputed #1's for each character that can truly show how you can play the matchup the best. Falco seems to be a bad matchup for samus but hey that could be completely wrong in a year.