ROM 5 - Mew2King vs Unknown522

[Espy Rose]

I would rather the game be friends playing at home. I support the idea of this game being for the players over third-party un-involved bystanders. This game is for us because we play it. If you disagree with this stance, it's on you to be good enough of a player to make it not happen. I refuse to implement caveats into our rule sets to punish our players for doing what their skill allows them to do in a pre-defined system.

The bystanders ARE involved in the games though! They have just as much competitive significance as the players do towards the games.

In addition, last time I checked, I was unaware that being a good player allowed you leeway towards acting completely disrespectful not only to the people who give you the opportunity to play in such a setting, but to act so immature in front of a crowd that shines glory on your skills. My mistake on that part.

Being good in a video game doesn't give you that kind of immunity. To even imply such a toxic, destructive idea is just irrevocably arrogant.

The smash tournaments are not about "owing" anything to anyone. Why would I pay $10 to enter a tournament to "owe" somebody anything? That's simply stupid. When you pay your money to enter a tournament, you pay for your chance to win more money within a pre-defined set of rules. THATS ALL. You don't pay to give spectators a good show, you don't pay to be punished later for doing something like splitting that isn't even against the tournament rules.

It's stupid to show appreciation to the organizers who toiled away to make such a tournament even possible? It's stupid to motivate lower leveled players and newcomers to the scene by showing an amazing display of competitive prowess? It's stupid to act like a morally good human being with a nature that's compassionate and respectful of others?

If you feel that it's stupid to uphold all of those virtues, then there's nothing I can further say about this. All I can do at that point, would be to call such a belief totally heartless and selfish to its core.

This community is not about friendship or respect. If the witch-hunts for splitting that never occurred, baseless attacks on the players or tournament hosts, or the flaming on ME for protecting them didn't make that obvious, you're not paying attention. Your post is not about community or respect. Bashing Jason for his sincere opinion is not about community or respect. Forcing players to "play seriously" is not about community or respect. This whole debacle is largely a failure to see Mew2King and Unknown as "the community".

Those accounts are mostly in accordance to ignorance, uncontrollable emotion, and bias towards the players, considering their history. Those accusations are unfounded or without merit, and are something I'm also not fond of.

My problem towards you is summed up by you yourself. "This community is not about friendship or respect." Such an idea is disgusting. Maybe it seems that way right now because of how heavy of an influence this is on everyone here on Smashboards, but that's also because of the nature of negative experience.

Naysayers tend to speak far more loudly than those who approve.

Perhaps the failure to see them as PART OF THE COMMUNITY (they do NOT define it, don't you DARE assume that) is because they fail to treat the community with respect and dignity. It's entirely possible.

Anything else I have to say in concerns to this was summed up by Livewires.

EDIT: +1 for Kage. Times change, and we need to change in accordance to maintain harmony.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Anderson Silva which is the best champion in the world got almost banned from the UFC for being a ***** in a fight. I mean when you have a lot of attention, you have to show the example. I'm saying the times are definitely different now and everyone needs to change for the better. There was NO WAY to know back in the day if someone cheated or played badly, all you had was ****ty videos and maybe a few words from dozens of people.

Totally agree. If you're the top of the community/scene/whatever, then people will often associate how you are with how the scene is associated and who the newer players will look to. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when conducting yourself, it's much better in the long run to conduct yourself like Georges St. Pierre than Tito Ortiz.

 

[Landry]

M2K did get ****ed by the ruleset, though. I honestly think this whole situation could have been avoided in a number of cases -

1. If they hadn't manipulated the bracket this whole thing wouldn't have happened. Not M2K's fault.
2. If the ruleset had been MBR (or even Apex standard) then the whole DSR debate wouldn't be relevant. Again, not M2K's fault.
3. If Unknown had gotten rule clarification before game 5 of WSF. Not M2K's fault.
4. If Alukard hadn't forced a replay of game 5 and just let the result stand because the two players did agree (implied by them not clarifying the rules) to game 5 on FD. Not M2K's fault.

After that with the forfeiting and the the splitting and all that crap (omg, the warm up rounds...) - that's on M2K. He certainly could have handled himself better in that situation but if you look at the facts he did get ****ed over pretty hard at that point. This is not M2K's first time having trouble getting motivated to play in tourney so its not like this is even that big of a surprise. I think a lot of people would have been upset in his position. I don't think its right to make M2K a scapegoat here because a lot of the blame lies with other parties involved. M2K is blameless, but it wasn't really his fault either.

#FREEM2K

 

[Juggleguy]

straight up objective opinion. got no interest in beef with anyone so this is strictly an objective pov.

1. Proper seeding. If Unknown and KK were seeded properly on different sides of the bracket, the whole controversy about floating players (Eggm and Unknown) from different sides of the bracket to avoid playing each other would be squashed. A lot of the problems that are being brought up seem to have 2-3 previous problems that people are overlooking. (all parties involved were gave the ok to do so, but it still can be prevented by properly seeding in the first place)

2. Unknown should have not received a second chance at game 5. It was his duty to look up the rules, flag someone down, contest it, BEFORE game 5 was played. NOT AFTER. M2K did a similar thing at Genesis 1 when he lost to Armada in a BO3 set, when it was supposed to be a BO5. Both players played out the set thinking it was a BO3. M2K found out it was supposed to be a BO5 AFTER playing, and demanded to finish the set. I said **** no. That is your fault, (both players faults) for not knowing the rules when previously it was stated it was supposed to be a BO5 in winners semis. There should be zero reason for allowing Unknown to play the match a second time due to his inability (and M2K's) to read and comprehend the rule set.

3. Splitting happens. Its happens now, its happened in the past, and will continue to happen in the future. The only thing that differs is (Umbreon also mentioned this) is that our community has changed from what it was to what it is now. Back then splitting was the "honorable" thing to do if it was someone from out of state in the finals. No one saw each other as much as they do in todays community. We had no streams, no facebook to constantly talk to each other all the time, so things were very casual and lax compared to today. You split today, youre also giving a fat **** you to everyone in attendance, and more importantly everyone on the stream for sitting and watching patiently to see the finals all weekend. If you want to split, do it after the tournament.

Theres no way anyone can blame one person for what went down. I personally believe everyone had a piece of the blame to share. All of this could have been prevented with a little more knowledge of the ruleset that you all have been accustomed to for the last 6-10 years, a little bit more rigidness in applying and standing firm on the rule set.

This is why these problems exist imo. People dont read the rules and then when they do its all subject to interpretation and twisted to fit the mold of the persons argument.

Regardless, this isnt what smash is about to me. I was iffy about doing another Genesis 3 next summer but im pretty sure this pushed me over the fence, just so i can be a part of showing what smash is actually all about.

M2K realizes his mistakes, and thats that. Im not saying give him a second chance, or a third or whatever else you all want from him, but just acknowledge he isnt the only person to blame in this ordeal.

Like x100. Thank you Boback for summarizing what I've felt ever since people started popping off on this subject... "A lot of the problems that are being brought up seem to have 2-3 previous problems that people are overlooking" is an absolutely PERFECT SUMMARY of this entire debacle.

We now have evidence in the form of posts from Mew2King and Unknown that the stupid Game 5 rematch messed with their mindsets in one way or another, resulting in a negative mentality that made them want to forfeit or split their next matches. I'm a firm believer that if the Game 5 rematch hadn't happened, then no splitting would have happened.


Here's a list of the problems at ROM 5, with the ones at the top being easily solved if the ones at the bottom had been taken care of in the first place:


* The final few sets were either split (GFs) or turned into a joke (WFs)

which happened because:

* Mew2King and Unknown were in a splitting/forfeiting mindset

which was a direct result of two major incidents:

1. Game 5 Winners Semis rematch was forced to happen

which happened because:

* Players did not get clarification on the rules before Game 5

which happened because:

* The rules were strange and terrible, going against all other Melee major tournament rulesets in 2012

which was made worse due to the fact that:

* The TOs failed to clearly communicate the strange rule before the tourney or during the tourney

with the other major incident being:

2. A player swap was made before Winners Semis

which happened because:

* KirbyKaze and Unknown were on the same side of Winners Semis

which happened because:

* The TOs failed to properly separate the Canadians in the first place, putting KirbyKaze, Unknown, Weon-X, and Europhoria ALL ON THE SAME SIDE OF WINNERS BRACKET


Guess what? All of ROM 5's problems can be traced back to poor TOing. If you properly separate the Canadians for the bracket and properly advertise a strange rule (or just go with the status quo in the first place), I guarantee you the splitting nonsense would not have gone down the way it did, because Mew2King and Unknown could have actually had a chance to stay in a healthy, competitive mindset.

 

[Violence]

I'm completely with Robbleguy and Boback on this one.

While player actions were inexcusable, the TO is also to blame.

It was just a ****ty situation, and in the future, I think clearer communication between TO and players will prevent this from happening.

I don't think that anyone should be punished for this, as it was not clear in the first place that this was not allowed.

If we take this RoM as a lesson to the community rather than a witch hunt, I think we will definitely grow from this.

 

[KrIsP!]

Hey juggle i guess you have something to add to that year in review

 

[LivewiresXe]

M2K did get ****ed by the ruleset, though. I honestly think this whole situation could have been avoided in a number of cases -

1. If they hadn't manipulated the bracket this whole thing wouldn't have happened. Not M2K's fault.
2. If the ruleset had been MBR (or even Apex standard) then the whole DSR debate wouldn't be relevant. Again, not M2K's fault.
3. If Unknown had gotten rule clarification before game 5 of WSF. Not M2K's fault.
4. If Alukard hadn't forced a replay of game 5 and just let the result stand because the two players did agree (implied by them not clarifying the rules) to game 5 on FD. Not M2K's fault.

After that with the forfeiting and the the splitting and all that crap (omg, the warm up rounds...) - that's on M2K. He certainly could have handled himself better in that situation but if you look at the facts he did get ****ed over pretty hard at that point. This is not M2K's first time having trouble getting motivated to play in tourney so its not like this is even that big of a surprise. I think a lot of people would have been upset in his position. I don't think its right to make M2K a scapegoat here because a lot of the blame lies with other parties involved. M2K is blameless, but it wasn't really his fault either.

#FREEM2K

Just pointing out that M2K himself said that he asked for the bracket to be changed/manipulated. So yes, that part IS his fault, if nothing else.

 

[Strong Badam]

That isn't even remotely funny, krisp.

 

[Anth0ny]

straight up objective opinion. got no interest in beef with anyone so this is strictly an objective pov.

1. Proper seeding. If Unknown and KK were seeded properly on different sides of the bracket, the whole controversy about floating players (Eggm and Unknown) from different sides of the bracket to avoid playing each other would be squashed. A lot of the problems that are being brought up seem to have 2-3 previous problems that people are overlooking. (all parties involved were gave the ok to do so, but it still can be prevented by properly seeding in the first place)

2. Unknown should have not received a second chance at game 5. It was his duty to look up the rules, flag someone down, contest it, BEFORE game 5 was played. NOT AFTER. M2K did a similar thing at Genesis 1 when he lost to Armada in a BO3 set, when it was supposed to be a BO5. Both players played out the set thinking it was a BO3. M2K found out it was supposed to be a BO5 AFTER playing, and demanded to finish the set. I said **** no. That is your fault, (both players faults) for not knowing the rules when previously it was stated it was supposed to be a BO5 in winners semis. There should be zero reason for allowing Unknown to play the match a second time due to his inability (and M2K's) to read and comprehend the rule set.

3. Splitting happens. Its happens now, its happened in the past, and will continue to happen in the future. The only thing that differs is (Umbreon also mentioned this) is that our community has changed from what it was to what it is now. Back then splitting was the "honorable" thing to do if it was someone from out of state in the finals. No one saw each other as much as they do in todays community. We had no streams, no facebook to constantly talk to each other all the time, so things were very casual and lax compared to today. You split today, youre also giving a fat **** you to everyone in attendance, and more importantly everyone on the stream for sitting and watching patiently to see the finals all weekend. If you want to split, do it after the tournament.

Theres no way anyone can blame one person for what went down. I personally believe everyone had a piece of the blame to share. All of this could have been prevented with a little more knowledge of the ruleset that you all have been accustomed to for the last 6-10 years, a little bit more rigidness in applying and standing firm on the rule set.

Also warming up/button checking for 5 minutes midset isnt cool at all. I remember Lunin used to do that in our Norcal locals and he got a lot of **** for it, BUT it technically wasnt directly against the rules, only vaguely and ambiguously.



To me this is considered stalling, and grounds for DQ. To others it might not be as simple since the rules in question refer to activities that take place DURING game play of the set, and not in between.

This is why these problems exist imo. People dont read the rules and then when they do its all subject to interpretation and twisted to fit the mold of the persons argument.

Regardless, this isnt what smash is about to me. I was iffy about doing another Genesis 3 next summer but im pretty sure this pushed me over the fence, just so i can be a part of showing what smash is actually all about.

M2K realizes his mistakes, and thats that. Im not saying give him a second chance, or a third or whatever else you all want from him, but just acknowledge he isnt the only person to blame in this ordeal.


/rant


edit: beyond all this crap, rom5 was pretty sick to watch on the stream. SICK sets and SICK hype. good **** alu

Amazing post.

The stream almost hit 4K viewers. It was on the front page of Twitch.

I (and I'm sure the rest of the community) understand the behind the scenes of the split, but 99% of the viewers did not, and this just came off making our scene look bad.

we're killing esports guys

 

[Keitaro]

Just pointing out that M2K himself said that he asked for the bracket to be changed/manipulated. So yes, that part IS his fault, if nothing else.

What M2K asks for isn't his fault. It is the fault of the person who let it happen.

M2K does not control the bracket, the TOs do. That should be simple to understand.

 

[Espy Rose]

While that's true, you'd be hard pressed to prove that he didn't influence the change in some way. If there's one thing this event shows, it's that M2K and other top players have a lot more influence than should be allowed.

 

[KrIsP!]

That isn't even remotely funny, krisp.

Wait funny? I'm not trying to be funny. He's used past controversies in his year in reviews and this was obviously something of note. If it wasn't then people would have shut up about it by now. My original post was "Hey juggly, when you do your year in review please check your facts for this. I'd hate for everyone to start this up again when you do." But I figured he's shown that he's not really biased about the whole thing and he's done a good job with things like Pound V in the past.

 

[Deleted member]

The bystanders ARE involved in the games though! They have just as much competitive significance as the players do towards the games.

then I would argue that they are detrimental for having capacity to influence the results.

In addition, last time I checked, I was unaware that being a good player allowed you leeway towards acting completely disrespectful not only to the people who give you the opportunity to play in such a setting, but to act so immature in front of a crowd that shines glory on your skills. My mistake on that part.

Being good in a video game doesn't give you that kind of immunity. To even imply such a toxic, destructive idea is just irrevocably arrogant.

I never implied that the players were immune to ridicule. However, they should certainly be immune to punishment, as there were no rules against the conduct we observed from them.

It's stupid to show appreciation to the organizers who toiled away to make such a tournament even possible? It's stupid to motivate lower leveled players and newcomers to the scene by showing an amazing display of competitive prowess? It's stupid to act like a morally good human being with a nature that's compassionate and respectful of others?

If you feel that it's stupid to uphold all of those virtues, then there's nothing I can further say about this. All I can do at that point, would be to call such a belief totally heartless and selfish to its core.

It is stupid to imply any of it upon entering a tournament. As a player, you should have no reason to think any of these things when you pay for your entry fee. If you do, well that's on you. To take YOUR beliefs as implications of how the tournament should be run is a total jump in logic.

My problem towards you is summed up by you yourself. "This community is not about friendship or respect." Such an idea is disgusting. Maybe it seems that way right now because of how heavy of an influence this is on everyone here on Smashboards, but that's also because of the nature of negative experience.

There is certainly some bias when these events come up. That said, they come up far more often than we'd like to admit as a whole. At what point do these characteristics become chronic rather than acute? I feel that we have passed that line a long time ago, although I could see that interpretation being debatable. If you think the idea is disgusting, you for one could stop labeling my opinion as selfish. You are directly contributing to a problem that you are denying at the same time. There's no way you can be observably correct.

Perhaps the failure to see them as PART OF THE COMMUNITY (they do NOT define it, don't you DARE assume that) is because they fail to treat the community with respect and dignity. It's entirely possible.

The people under scrutiny (Mew2King, Unknown, Alukard) have contributed MUCH more to this community than anyone *****ing about them has. This situation is clearly the product of multiple minor miscommunications that have nothing to do with "respect". However, the callous response definitely does.

 

[Juggleguy]

Just pointing out that M2K himself said that he asked for the bracket to be changed/manipulated. So yes, that part IS his fault, if nothing else.

... What?

The bracket swap happened because KirbyKaze and Unknown were on the same side of Winners Semis. I have a reliable source that tells me they were so fed up with the tourney that they were thinking about leaving the whole event at that point. So a bracket swap was made to keep things under wrap.

But the point is, why not get the bracket right in the first place to avoid that mess? KirbyKaze and Unknown only ended up on the same side of Winners Semis because the TOs failed to properly separate them (and the other two Canadians, for that matter) during the initial creation of the bracket.

Criticize Mew2King all you want for the splitting and near-forfeit at the end, but he deserves none of the blame for what happened in Winners Semis.

 

[Sinji]

I think if M2K counterpicked yoshis story and won in game 2 then counter pick FD in game 5, this arguement wouldn't even exsist.

 

[omgwtfToph]

i think if unknown had just made the 4-stock comeback on FD, then none of this would have happened and we would be remembering a very different rom5

SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN FOX CHOKES, RYAN? **** HITS THE FAN, THAT'S WHAT

 

[Juggleguy]

Wait funny? I'm not trying to be funny. He's used past controversies in his year in reviews and this was obviously something of note. If it wasn't then people would have shut up about it by now. My original post was "Hey juggly, when you do your year in review please check your facts for this. I'd hate for everyone to start this up again when you do." But I figured he's shown that he's not really biased about the whole thing and he's done a good job with things like Pound V in the past.

If years from now you can't talk about ROM 5 without mentioning this debacle, then it's worth mentioning IMO. I'll be as objective as possible... I try to write it in a style similar to AP sports articles.

 

[tarheeljks]

The community is no longer about this high level of mutual respect. We don't play for thousands anymore, but hundreds. We don't play in the name of friendship, but rather stiff competition. The game is not about the players so much as it is for stream viewers or "potential sponsors" that will never appear.

I disagree with this shift of value, but I suppose that's a sign of my age within the community.

please do not say "we." you can't speak for the entire community, so idk how you can make this judgment. people can play with their friends and embrace competition. i cannot speak for other regions, but the social bonds within the norcal smash community are its heart. the overall popularity and monetary payoff of this game are not significant enough for it to have a dedicated following primarily based on competition (not saying no aspects of competition are present). and i know that these bonds exist between norcal and other regions (primarily socal of course). many people spend hundreds of dollars to travel to and participate in large scale events not only to test their skill, but just to be a part of the event (i.e. interact with their friends). i'll spend quite a bit of money going to apex knowing that i will make, at best, a miniscule % of it back at the tournament. i'm going to practice my *** off and am excited to play many people, but i am mainly going b/c friends from my region and other regions are going and b/c i would like to meet other people from within this community. i doubt i am alone in these sentiments.

 

[SUNG666]

This espy person knows what's up. It's all about love and competition.

 

[LivewiresXe]

What M2K asks for isn't his fault. It is the fault of the person who let it happen.

M2K does not control the bracket, the TOs do. That should be simple to understand.

Be that as it may, the bracket would have never changed if M2K didn't ask for it to. That's evidently fact, which therefore puts him at LEAST 50/50 fault for it. Yes, people will say not to blame him for it, but if he's not at fault at all for that why would he SAY he did it?


And saying that M2K and Unknown are 2 members of the community and NOT the community itself has nothing to do with respect, it's just stating a fact. If you get to a point where you think you're bigger than the company, community, scene, whatever that you're a part of, then that's called ego, not respect. Also note that at no point did I accuse M2K or Unknown themselves of thinking that, but rather that others in here were acting as if they were and thinking that because they did things for the community they are above the same rules, guidelines, and responsibility that everyone else has to it, which just isn't true.

 

[Juushichi]

Umbreon lives in a ****ty region (play wise they're good tho) with a ****ty mindset.

Whoop whoop whoop.

 

[Oracle]

I'm with juggleguy and boback on this one. Its unknown's responsibility to know when he's being cheated and the blame doesn't fall on M2K. Just like how when I go to MtG tournaments and cheat my opponents by lying to them about card effects and drawing extra cards when they aren't looking, its their fault for not noticing and I deserve those wins, because lying makes me a better player

 

[strawhats]

hype

hype as ****

If there is any positive that comes out of this, it's that we get a Genesis 3...HYPE TO THE MAX!

 

[knightpraetor]

"
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/new...gue-of-legends
"

enforceable or not, we need rules against splitting so that at the very least top players who wish to split have to make the games themselves be presentable to the spectators. Sure they can still split, but at least make them pretend to have serious matches at a level that won't damage the community as a whole. and if they are found later to brag or disclose that they split, then ban them from future tourneys. It's embarrassing that smash is one of the few sports where there is nothing even clamping down on this.

In starcraft:brood war the players in question would have been permanently banned from the esport as a whole and all future tourneys (this actually happened). I'm not suggesting we should do this retroactively of course, but with rules like this in effect, the players who wish to split will be a hell of a lot more discreet.

What's the point of winning a few hundred dollars when you can no longer enter tourneys anywhere in a game you spent several thousand hours of your life learning.

it's not about enforceability, it's about ensuring that the players pretend to have serious matches and preserving the integrity of the sport

 

[Kite91]

All I can say is everyone better bring their a game to apex. M2k better ****.

 

[Divinokage]

please do not say "we." you can't speak for the entire community, so idk how you can make this judgment.

His kind of "we" is basically his group of select elites that they deem worthy. He openly admitted to that before.

 

[joY]

^

Would love to see this reference.

Not hard to imagine, but just sayin'

 

[JPOBS]

I like how umbreon includes himself in a group of selected elites, when he doesn't even play this game.

I wanna be just like him when I grow up.

 

[Espy Rose]

His kind of "we" is basically his group of select elites that they deem worthy. He openly admitted to that before.

I was getting ready to type a response but happened to read this post first.
I guess most of what I'm trying to say is being lost on him, then.

 

[Kal]

"
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/new...gue-of-legends
"

enforceable or not, we need rules against splitting so that at the very least top players who wish to split have to make the games themselves be presentable to the spectators. Sure they can still split, but at least make them pretend to have serious matches at a level that won't damage the community as a whole. and if they are found later to brag or disclose that they split, then ban them from future tourneys. It's embarrassing that smash is one of the few sports where there is nothing even clamping down on this.

In starcraft:brood war the players in question would have been permanently banned from the esport as a whole and all future tourneys (this actually happened). I'm not suggesting we should do this retroactively of course, but with rules like this in effect, the players who wish to split will be a hell of a lot more discreet.

What's the point of winning a few hundred dollars when you can no longer enter tourneys anywhere in a game you spent several thousand hours of your life learning.

it's not about enforceability, it's about ensuring that the players pretend to have serious matches and preserving the integrity of the sport

How enforceable the rule is is always relevant. Creating enforceable rules like "grand finals must be played out" is fine. In order to ensure "that the players pretend to have serious matches," there must be something stopping players from not taking their matches seriously. When a rule is unenforceable, you can't ****ing enforce it.

Unenforceable rules also have the potential to lead to stupid ****; imagine if we had a "players can't sandbag" or "players can't manipulate the bracket" rule when, for example, a then-unknown KoreanDJ came out of nowhere and beat Caveman. What's stopping the TO from accusing Caveman of manipulating the bracket?

I don't think rules in this regard are a good idea. A code of conduct that's explicitly not enforceable is perfectly fine, and stigmatizing those who go against the code of conduct is not a bad idea. I think there's potential for a baseball analogy in here regarding no-hitters and bunting, but I don't know **** about baseball.

You could create a code of conduct and try to enforce it, but it seems more trouble than it's worth, and I feel it infringes on the individual rights of players. If I want to make it to grand finals and split, that's my prerogative, and the only thing that's stopping me is that I personally find it disrespectful. But I think it's a leap in logic for me to claim that this should be made a rule just because I personally dislike the practice.

This seems like an attempt at finding a pragmatic solution when one doesn't exist. Players who want to split will still split, even with a "no-splitsies" rule in place. And players who want to make a farce of their matches will still do so. All a player has to do is find a way to agree to a split without letting anyone else know, and if he wants to make a joke of his set, all he has to do is play a joke character.

So, even if we go out of our way to prevent this practice, people who want to engage in it still will. The only real solution is to start convincing people not to engage in it at all. As I said, I think a code of conduct is a good idea here.

 

[Tee ay eye]

tl;dr- genesis 3 is gonna be amazing

 

[RyeJew]

This espy person knows what's up. It's all about love and competition.

Umbreon has made some fine points as well, although reflecting more on the individual rather than the community as a whole.
Like night and day, you can't have one without the other here.
Wait.. Espy.. Espeon
And Umbreon..
Hmm.. interesting..

 

[VoiD-]

A rule saying all players must try their hardest always isn't enforceable to any degree, and thus cannot be implemented.

However, a rule that says something like "if you are caught trying to split, then you will forfeit all prize money and be disqualified" is enforceable to some degree. While it would definitely not 100% prevent all splitting, it would a. prevent it from being done publicly, which alone is a positive effect and b. serve as a deterrent from splits being proposed in the first place. If there was such a rule and it was actually enforced, splits would only occur in private between close friends. I think it would be a positive step, at least.

 

[Kal]

Haha, any rule with an "if" clause is necessarily enforceable to some degree. It's to the degree that the conditionals are met.

Anyway, while I agree with you, I think a code of conduct would serve the same purpose and avoid the douchebaggery of pretending to tell people what they are allowed to do in this sort of situation.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not certain why splitting should be seen as a bad thing... if anything the behavior of players who no longer plan on trying to win is what everyone gets upset about, and splitting is just a convenient scapegoat for that kind of behavior, but not truly a root cause.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Umbreon has made some fine points as well, although reflecting more on the individual rather than the community as a whole.
Like night and day, you can't have one without the other here.
Wait.. Espy.. Espeon
And Umbreon..
Hmm.. interesting..

10/10 lol

 

[VoiD-]

I'm not certain why splitting should be seen as a bad thing... if anything the behavior of players who no longer plan on trying to win is what everyone gets upset about, and splitting is just a convenient scapegoat for that kind of behavior, but not truly a root cause.

Because there's no way do anything that makes players want to play to win more without giving them a reason to, and splitting is something that players can use to alleviate the only definite source of pressure on them to try. I do wish everyone could find motivation to try all the time, but if they choose not to I don't think they should be able to split. If you don't want to try that's honestly fine with me and not something anyone can really do anything about, but if you lose because of it you should have to at least take the monetary hit because you chose not to compete.

@Kal I don't agree that a code of conduct would serve the same purpose. People probably won't split openly for a while in the wake of this whole incident, but I don't think "please don't do this" is a good long-term solution. At least if there's some negative consequence to being caught splitting people will try a bit harder to not get caught, since they would suffer more than a PR hit if they do. And I don't agree with the notion that regulating tournament conduct this is "douchebaggery". If we want to be taken seriously (we do, right?), basic steps should be taken to aid the integrity, or at the very least perceived integrity, of tournaments.

 

[tarheeljks]

His kind of "we" is basically his group of select elites that they deem worthy. He openly admitted to that before.

Ah well didn't know that obv, but it makes me the dislike the post for a host of other reasons

 

[tarheeljks]

I'm not certain why splitting should be seen as a bad thing... if anything the behavior of players who no longer plan on trying to win is what everyone gets upset about, and splitting is just a convenient scapegoat for that kind of behavior, but not truly a root cause.

Agree with this completely. It's an effect not a cause. Also sorry for the double post. Phone, editing in the quote would be a pain

 

[Bad Cupboard]

I'm not certain why splitting should be seen as a bad thing... if anything the behavior of players who no longer plan on trying to win is what everyone gets upset about, and splitting is just a convenient scapegoat for that kind of behavior, but not truly a root cause.

Well, yes it is. People try hard in $10 money matches. Why wouldn't people try hard when the amount of money on the line is much, much higher?

If players split, it inherently takes away that motivation. Sure, there's still the drive to be the best, but just look at the last few sets from ROM 5. Are you saying that everyone would have played like that even if money was a factor?