Recovery Tier List

[MalwareDie]

ey ey ey

kirby is meta knight of melee

only need more time to discover all combos and really match up

No way in hell. Kirby is the worst character in the game. He sucks at eeverything, including recovering.

and recovery of ganon no is bad

It is bad. Dark Dive loses to everything. A Ganon that gets knocked far off the stage is nearly guaranteed to lose the stock.

you hates ganondorf??

you hates kirby??

you are my enemy ¬¬

......

 

[Ghetto]

I just looked over this whole thread and I think link is being overlooked. Here's why:

Pros:
- Multiple hits above ledge for his up-b, prevents a lot of ledgeguarding/ledgehogging techniques
- Airdodge-grapple recovery has 2 sweetspots
- Airdodge-grapple has huge horizontal range
- Bomb jump can add vertical and horizontal recovery at higher percents
- Easy to walltech edguard attacks
- Throwing a bomb can provide pressure for on and offstage characters with low lag
- Throwing boomerange can provide pressure for on and offstage characters with low med/high lag

Cons:
Link definitely has disadvantages but I won't fill this in cause I'm sure you'll all do this for me...

 

[Exelcior]

This thread has so many people who are posting sh*t. Samus isn't even on the top 3 in most lists.... WTF? Thats laughable. Let me make some points here.

Jigglypuff: Perfect Horizontal recovery. Her horizontal distance is infinite/indefinite and Pound is only bad in it's (kinda) laggy start-up but it has good priority. Her vertical recovery however is terrible. If Jiggs is below the stage she is very easily gimped as she can't really do much when below.

Mewtwo: Second jump is beast for both vertical and horizontal recovery. Teleport sweetspots easily and is very hard to predict as well as stop before it starts, the landing lag is also minimal.

Samus: Someone said that the airdodge is laggy and bombs are laggy and no one argumented anything -_-.
Bombs: Unless you are dropping bombs in your opponents face, he can't really do much, and even if you are close enough to get hit, you can drop a bomb(at this point you have that ridiculous air mobility) and move backwards which protects you from incoming enemies, when you drop your second bomb you move back forwards and recieve the bomb jump.
Airdodge/Grapple: The airdodge is laggy but there are tons of ways to get around that. You can go way below the stage to the point where you can't get attacked, you can also airdodge and immediatly grapple which will cancel the airdodge lag and it will give you an upwards boost that can even surpass UpB and it sweetspots easily. Edgeguarders can also get hit by the grapple, and the grapple can also sweetspot the ledge.
UpB: Invincibility startup frames, it's fast, sweetspots easily.

Really Samus can combine all of this to be extremely unpredictable.

Top three are definately (not in order) Jiggs, Samus, and X(Mewtwo probably)

 

[Violence]

I'm going to name every tactic I can think of that Samus has to recover off of FD.

Remember that for almost every grapple technique I have listed, you can vary how long you airdodge for it, so there's an added dimension there.

Bomb Jump.
Bomb Jump Weave.
Sweetspot Up B.
Sweetspot Grapple.
Rising Sweetspot Grapple.
Rising Grapple No Attach.
Rising Grapple Attach.
Rising Grapple Attach Cancel.
Rising Instant Grapple Cancel.
Descending Grapple to Sweetspot Up B
Descending Grapple to Double Jump Aerial.
Descending Grapple to Double Jump Up B.
Non Sweetspot Grapple to Wall Jump Airdodge.
Non Sweetspot Grapple to Wall Jump Bair.
Non Sweetspot Grapple to Scar Jump Dair.
Non Sweetspot Grapple to Wall Jump Bomb to Wall Jump stall to Sweetspot Up B.

SAMUS = RECOVERY OPTIONS.

I'm going to ignore everything below low tiers for my list, just because I'm not experienced with them.

Personally, I would put Samus, Pika, Jiggs, and Peach in the top tier of recoveries. As far as difficulty of edgeguarding goes, I think they're all quite hard to gimp. Also, when you look at it distance wise, all of these characters can recover at stage height at the very edge of the screen. Everyone else is screwed(though I'm not sure about Kirby, and Link can make it with a bomb, I think). In terms of maximum movement distance and difficulty of edgeguarding while closer to the stage, I'd call these guys top tier.

The next tier level I would put in Fox, Link, Ice Climbers, Mario, and Doc. They either have many options, or a recovery that is relatively safe from getting gimped. Mario and Doc use projectiles to approach the stage and have a large sweet spot, IC have two different recovery options that can go for the ledge or over the opponent's head, also invincible Nana is invincible, Fox can aim at ledge or overhead, and side b can be aimed to platform cancel, hit them, or go to the edge. Instant cancelled illusions add more depth to Fox's options. Link has projectiles to help him recover, as well as a grapple and pretty safe up B. Each of these characters also cover a good amount of distance.

the next tier level I would put in characters with decent distance recoveries, but whose recoveries are often too predictable and can be very vulnerable to getting gimped. Here I would put in Falcon, Ganon, Sheik, Marth, DK, Luigi, and Falco.

 

[TheGoat]

I say: Jiggs, Mewtwo, Samus, pikachu/pichu, Peach.

stuff

Let's not feed this one.

 

[Ghetto]

I agree very much with Violence's list.

 

[KirbyKaze]

loooool

Samus's recovery is so overrated

 

[KAOSTAR]

loooool

Samus's recovery is so overrated

its good overall. but thats only because it has lots of options. all still pretty punishable.

totally amazing recoveries stop at mewtwo.

 

[KirbyKaze]

you can do a lot of pointless punishable things

whoa broken

 

[Yung Mei]

silent spectre for god tier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdP6J-p5pfs#t=0m43s

 

[KAOSTAR]

you can do a lot of pointless punishable things

whoa broken

lol come on now thats not even fair. I don't even care about that list, just samus has good vertical and horizontal and often can get multiple chances to recover. plus she has two methods of recovering.

I still don't put it on the same tier with m2 puff. but its no lower than 8th.

 

[Exelcior]

you can do a lot of pointless punishable things

whoa broken

Lol if you think Instant Rising grapple is the same as bomb jump to airdodge, or a sweetspot UpB or a wall jump to momentum cancelling missile are a "lot of pointless punishable things" you must be playing a very stale Samus.

 

[KirbyKaze]

and you must be playing people that can't edgeguard :D

 

[Brookman]

and you must be playing people that can't edgeguard :D

It's great cause this isn't even a troll.

-
Samus's recovery is relatively poor.

I mean, how hard could it be to stuff a wall jumped missile right next to the edge of the stage??

Go win some tournaments and then we'll talk, till then you're just a fan boy.

 

[ponylover123456789]

and you must be playing people that can't edgeguard :D

You must be really really really dumb.

That's like the most pointless statement you can make. It's like saying

lol you're also very experienced in the matchup.

it means nothing at all

Except that samus has a great recovery, tons of mixups, and answers to everything.

It's not like screw attack eats through everything. It's not like her airdodge doesn't lead into a grapple.

So yeah try and fall off bair a samus with your gay sheik and see who ends up in the blast zone.

Please

Also sheiks recovery is good too, just cause you'll probably get hit by most of the cast after you get onstage doesn't mean you're *****.

Edit- yeah bman appeal to authority really works for you.

 

[KAOSTAR]

It's great cause this isn't even a troll.

-
Samus's recovery is relatively poor.

I mean, how hard could it be to stuff a wall jumped missile right next to the edge of the stage??

Go win some tournaments and then we'll talk, till then you're just a fan boy.

lmao. its not poor relatively if anything.

if its poor it wouldbe standalone.

other people suck much worse at recovering.

in actuality its just aight, but for the proposes of this recovery tier list thread samus is fairly high up based off sheer ability to make it back and number of options. alot of characters lack that in either horizontal or vertical distance, holding theedge goes a long way vs alot of people.

 

[MalwareDie]

You must be really really really dumb.

Good description of yourself.

Also sheiks recovery is good too, just cause you'll probably get hit by most of the cast after you get onstage doesn't mean you're *****.

Fail.

 

[MalwareDie]

lmao. its not poor relatively if anything.

if its poor it wouldbe standalone.

other people suck much worse at recovering.

in actuality its just aight, but for the proposes of this recovery tier list thread samus is fairly high up based off sheer ability to make it back. alot of characters lack that in either horizontal or vertical distance, holding theedge goes a long way.

Agree with all of this.



What do you think of the lower tier recoveries? I think there are mistakes, particularly among the lower tiers on my list.

Top Tier: Jigglypuff
High Tier: Mewtwo, Peach, Pichu, Pikachu
Upper Tier: Samus, Link, Fox
High Middle Tier: Falco, Zelda, Marth
Middle Tier: Ice Climbers, Young Link, Donkey Kong
Low Middle Tier: Sheik, Mr. Game & Watch, Mario, Dr. Mario
Low Tier: Luigi, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Kirby
Bottom Tier: Yoshi, Bowser, Popo, Roy, Ness

 

[KirbyKaze]

You must be really really really dumb.

That's like the most pointless statement you can make. It's like saying

lol you're also very experienced in the matchup.

it means nothing at all

Except that samus has a great recovery, tons of mixups, and answers to everything.

It's not like screw attack eats through everything. It's not like her airdodge doesn't lead into a grapple.

So yeah try and fall off bair a samus with your gay sheik and see who ends up in the blast zone.

Please

Also sheiks recovery is good too, just cause you'll probably get hit by most of the cast after you get onstage doesn't mean you're *****.

Edit- yeah bman appeal to authority really works for you.

Sheik can be Rested for landing onstage.

Or chaingrabbed to death by several characters. Including herself, Ganon, both Marios (who also have the option to F-smash her or combo her into F-smash) and sometimes the Ice Climbers.

She can be KOed by slightly-charged U-smash by Fox at like 90. Just under 100 on Dreamland. But you can also F-smash her offstage (or Bair, Shine her a bunch of times into U-smash to reduce that damage, etc.) with him or several other things to grind to that damage, or combo her into an edgeguard because he gets free move and free move of choice with Fox is really good.

She gets looped forever by Falco D-smashes even if she gets the ground tech.

She gets looped by Dair --> Knee or reverse Knees by Falcon forever until she dies.

The only good character her recovery isn't absolute trash against is Marth. And sometimes Peach.

As for the Samus thing. Ledgehop invincible aerial and falling invincible aerial beat everything. I've done ledgehop aerials vs Samus before. Granted it was like Watty or whatever but like... it seemed to work? Maybe he was sandbagging and not Up+Bing through my invincibility because it was a friendly or something but... yeah. I dunno. Seems fine.

It stays out longer than her air-dodge, too, so it usually nicks her out of the grapple if she tries to dodge that way and needle spam (angled projectile in general, really) goes a long way to hurt those bomb jumps...

Iunno.

 

[ponylover123456789]

Fox can be rested after an uthrow by jiggs? Samus can be rested after dsmash by jiggs?

so what?

Ok if you tech or miss tech predictably and get combo ***** then you're gonna die anyway it doesn't have to do with recovery.

She has a good second jump, low fall speed and good horizontal movement.

even if you get baired at like 100% by any character and survival DI you can still save your second jump, then dj fair to clear the ledge or something.. and of they refresh invinvibility ... then just space it so you can get shined, *****...etc.

so if you falling invincible aerial a low recovering samus and she airdodges, grapples and gets above you, how is that you beating everything? This isn't some crazy theory craft, this is something very practical that a samus can and will do that requires no mindgames or tech skill, just a reaction.

 

[Exelcior]

It's great cause this isn't even a troll.

-
Samus's recovery is relatively poor.

I mean, how hard could it be to stuff a wall jumped missile right next to the edge of the stage??

Go win some tournaments and then we'll talk, till then you're just a fan boy.

I love how I'm actually making some points and you make an astoundingly stupid statement. "Samus's recovery is relatively poor". Samus will come back from just about anything. That alone puts her way up, not taking into account the sheer ridiculous amount of mixups and options at your disposal. If Samus isn't at least top 10 for you you're wrong period. I say Samus is top 3, but just saying it's poor is wrong and there's no way around that.

 

[JPOBS]

drop the whole "samus has options" thing.

if all your "options" basically boil down to you grab the ledge predictably, or you land on stage with lag/punishability, then the point is that no matter how many "options" you have, your recovery still sucks.

that said, I think samus has a good recovery, probably top 6. and not cuz of "mixups" and junk, but because of sheer distance and survivability.

but unless you're puff/mewtwo/peach, your recovery really isnt anything to brag about, its just better than the other chars (who all happen to suck, big whoop)

 

[1048576]

Ness can change the angle of his recovery and sweetspot from above or below.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox can be rested after an uthrow by jiggs? Samus can be rested after dsmash by jiggs?

this is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with recovery. sheik landing onstage with like 30+ frames of lag is a part of her recovery, and taking advantage of that moment to hit her as hard as possible is a staple part of many characters' edgeguard game on her. u-throw resting fox or resting oos on samus's d-smash aren't related in any way to recovery.

so what?

my thoughts exactly.

Ok if you tech or miss tech predictably and get combo ***** then you're gonna die anyway it doesn't have to do with recovery.

i agree. though i didn't cite anything like this. i cited chain grabs. and rest. and autocombos thta work forever. and specific moves that people use that form a loop on sheik's recovery that kill her.

the only tech i noted was vs falco because you can ground tech his d-smash. but that doesn't help unless you tech roll into the stage (tech roll away and stand tech will kill you with momentum). but if he times another d-smash he hits you out of your tech roll, repeating the process until one of you screws up. or until sheik hits kill percent and he switches to d-tilt (which can't be ground teched).

She has a good second jump, low fall speed and good horizontal movement.

who, sheik? her aerial mobility sucks. this has been statistically proven by M2K's melee stats research several years ago.

even if you get baired at like 100% by any character and survival DI you can still save your second jump, then dj fair to clear the ledge or something.. and of they refresh invinvibility ... then just space it so you can get shined, *****...etc.

proper invincibility use will counter such double jump fair efforts.

so if you falling invincible aerial a low recovering samus and she airdodges, grapples and gets above you, how is that you beating everything? This isn't some crazy theory craft, this is something very practical that a samus can and will do that requires no mindgames or tech skill, just a reaction.

alright, you got me.

falling bair isn't good vs samus except in certain situations. ledgehop bair is fantastic though. since sheik can follow samus's pullback on the airdodge and hit her because the bair lasts longer than the airdodge, and if samus doesn't retaliate, the invincible bair hits her anyway.

also not really theory. just... normal strat... that works most of the time vs low recovery. which samus almost always is doing because of the nature of how bomb jumps and projectiles and aerials interact with her high recovery.

Ness can change the angle of his recovery and sweetspot from above or below.

This is countered by following Ness offstage and taking the 8% from his Up+B in exchange for his stock.

Or by jumping off and hitting him before his slow Up+B projectile curls around and hits him.

Or mowing him down with projectiles when he's defenseless offstage (Peach, Sheik, etc.).

AND EVEN IF YOU FAIL ALL OF THOSE SUPER EASY THINGS TO DO

You can still ledgehop invincible aerial vs his Up+B and beat it anyway with any character with a decent ledgehop because it's like timing it vs a more obvious Fox Up+B... one without the ridiculous squeezes and stuff

 

[ponylover123456789]

You completely missed the point

and did a great job countering a point that DNE

cool bro . the point is that having your recovery ***** by one character doesn't make it terrible.

Jiggs ***** everyones recovery. does that means everyones recovery is bad? no, cause bad doesn't mean anything. A tier list is about better and worse. Jiggs ***** all characters recoveries super hard except for a select few. This doesn't mean that sheik is garbage recovery, it means she isn't top

They aren't autocombos. Lol have you ever played sheik dittos or what? It's not like when one person gets a grab its a stock and you should know that. And on the stage combos have nothing to do with recovery. Thats like saying foxes recovery is bad cause he gets comboed easily onstage.. ok whatever you said was pretty much bull **** so

autocombos don't exist except for like a few specific things. learn to DI and sdi

and proper use of invinvibilty? Ok lets be practical, with proper use of invincibility

why do people always john about their character god **** it no sheiks aerial recovery doesn't suck

and name dropping m2k.. how about you actually play the game. you can't prove anything "sucks" that statement is totally irrelevant and dumb.

Ok so your sheik and you upb so your poof hitbox will hit the falco hanging on the ledge. You can 1)go straight up and hope for a roll or standup go straight sideways and hope for a standup/ledgehop or 3) go diagonally upwards onto the stage and hope they ledgehop bair you across the stage or try and be stupid (like stand up walk > dsmash but take too long).

The point is it isn't that SIMPLE! ppl aren't TAS or computeres or perfect.
this is stupid and I have hw to do lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

You completely missed the point

and did a great job countering a point that DNE

cool bro . the point is that having your recovery ***** by one character doesn't make it terrible.

Jiggs ***** everyones recovery. does that means everyones recovery is bad? no, cause bad doesn't mean anything. A tier list is about better and worse. Jiggs ***** all characters recoveries super hard except for a select few. This doesn't mean that sheik is garbage recovery, it means she isn't top

They aren't autocombos. Lol have you ever played sheik dittos or what? It's not like when one person gets a grab its a stock and you should know that. And on the stage combos have nothing to do with recovery. Thats like saying foxes recovery is bad cause he gets comboed easily onstage.. ok whatever you said was pretty much bull **** so

autocombos don't exist except for like a few specific things. learn to DI and sdi

and proper use of invinvibilty? Ok lets be practical, with proper use of invincibility

why do people always john about their character god **** it no sheiks aerial recovery doesn't suck

and name dropping m2k.. how about you actually play the game. you can't prove anything "sucks" that statement is totally irrelevant and dumb.

Ok so your sheik and you upb so your poof hitbox will hit the falco hanging on the ledge. You can 1)go straight up and hope for a roll or standup go straight sideways and hope for a standup/ledgehop or 3) go diagonally upwards onto the stage and hope they ledgehop bair you across the stage or try and be stupid (like stand up walk > dsmash but take too long).

The point is it isn't that SIMPLE! ppl aren't TAS or computeres or perfect.
this is stupid and I have hw to do lol

Oh, I get it. You're ********.

 

[N64]

Samus's recovery doesn't seem too hot to me, but I play a char that almost completely negates it, so eh.

What she does have going for her is that she's super heavy and pretty floaty, so she can survive most non-spike edgeguards and keep trying to recover until pretty hefty percents.

 

[VGmasta]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

dude, roy has the worst recovery in the game.

Doesn't Ness, Falco, and Doc have it worst?

24. Falco
25. Doc
26. Roy

I honestly don't know who worst over all between Roy and Doc.

I think Roy's Up-B is better than Doc's. Roy's Up-B has a larger hitbox than Doc's Up-B. Roy's Up-B has decent height. And both Doc and Roy are pretty bad at defending themselves while recovering. Doc has the pills can mess with people that don't know how to get around them. And then there's the tornado (down-B) gimmick. Other than that, they both have bad recoveries.

Falco sucks though. He may as well not even have an Up-B. He can too easily be knock out of his firebird because there's NO hitbox on the windup.

lol@ ppl saying doc has a terrrible recorvery

lrn2 di and recover

its like impossible to edge guard doc

And nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Violence]

If it helps my credibility at all, I played M2K in team friendlies, about 3-4 matches in a row, and he edgeguarded me successfully around 3 times, out of over 10 attempts. Descending grapple to bomb jump double jump shenanigans, changing my grapple timing out of air dodge, saving double jump, missed sweetspot into walljump air dodge.

It was pretty much a 1v1, since his partner(Lucien) was keeping my Jiggs partner away.

It's not that easy to edgeguard a Samus who tries to make the recovery tricksy.

Also, I would say that while Doc's recovery isn't bad, it is indeed very difficult to edgeguard a good Doc.

 

[MalwareDie]

Doesn't Ness, Falco, and Doc have it worst?

Falco and Doc easily have better recoveries than Roy. Only Ness is worse.

I think Roy's Up-B is better than Doc's. Roy's Up-B has a larger hitbox than Doc's Up-B. Roy's Up-B has decent height. And both Doc and Roy are pretty bad at defending themselves while recovering. Doc has the pills can mess with people that don't know how to get around them. And then there's the tornado (down-B) gimmick. Other than that, they both have bad recoveries.

Roy also falls like a brick and Doc also has the cape. Having a projectile, the cape, and not being a fastfaller make Doc's recovery much better than Roy's.

Falco sucks though. He may as well not even have an Up-B. He can too easily be knock out of his firebird because there's NO hitbox on the windup.

Recover higher and use his phantasm.

And nothing could be further from the truth.

That is the only correct part of your post.

 

[Violence]

Doc can also sweetspot much more easily than the other two.

Magic hands.

 

[Geist]

Samus could still be considered in the top 5, but honestly it's still overrated. The way I look at it, the only characters that actually have 'good' recovery are Jiggs, and perhaps the other pokemon.
Samus has plenty of options, but they really only come down to either grabbing the ledge, or landing onstage.
Melee's metagame is just at the point where edgeguarding is more effective than recovery.

If it helps my credibility at all, I played M2K in team friendlies, about 3-4 matches in a row, and he edgeguarded me successfully around 3 times, out of over 10 attempts.

With the risk of sounding like a ****, it really doesn't.
Ever seen a tournament match of M2K vs HugS? It's not pretty stuff.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Teams is completely different than singles.

Samus takes like a minute to edgeguard. It's not usually a good idea to invest that much time on a single opponent in teams because of the existence of their partner.

 

[Aves]

KirbyKaze, if you come up with a complete list, I'll put it on the OP. Then people can debate it from there.

 

[HugS™]

Samus's recovery is fantastic, wtf?

Only Sheik turns it into anything less than a top 3 recovery.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Samus's recovery is fantastic, wtf?

Only Sheik turns it into anything less than a top 3 recovery.

lol. you mad? na samus is coo. but slow as ****.

 

[MalwareDie]

Marth also ***** Samus's recovery.

 

[BEES]

falco, falcon, and roy

I play characters with bad recoveries

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

naw Marth doesn't beat Samus' recovery nearly as badly as Sheik.

Sheik has those needles as well as a more versatile up-B than Marth's to recover with, not to mention that ****ing fair/bair.

 

[Exelcior]

naw Marth doesn't beat Samus' recovery nearly as badly as Sheik.

Sheik has those needles as well as a more versatile up-B than Marth's to recover with, not to mention that ****ing fair/bair.

Maybe not as bad, but it's still pretty bad. F*cking fair/bair eats through bombs/missiles anyday. And a tipped anything while offstage is so frustrating.