Recovery Tier List - Currently: Up-B Recoveries

[Ussi]

You might want to add to Pikachu's Up B:

QAC allows for onstage recovering

Do you mind if we just mention any recovery? Cause i can give Pika's side B..

 

[Barge]

I laughed at extremely fail tier.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Isn't Snake a little too high for his rank?

I mean the cons seem really bad and such.

 

[SuSa]

You might want to add to Pikachu's Up B:

QAC allows for onstage recovering

Do you mind if we just mention any recovery? Cause i can give Pika's side B..

Except we're focusing on recovering, QAC must be used on the stage, which makes it useless. You could have NOT done the QAC and have recovered.

I also do care, I'd like to get at least one list finished before moving onto another, thats why the title says up-B right now.

I laughed at extremely fail tier.

I liked the description, and look at that awesome Pro/Con ratio.

Proof that Link doesn't have the worst Up-B recovery: Jigglypuff exists

 

[Barge]

Havok, I have a problem with only one thing on your OP.

This is for pikachus con
"2nd part may not happen by player mistake"

That is just that, a player mistake, it has nothing to do with the characters mechanics.
We are to evaluate at its highest level, right?
The highest level player would not mess up

 

[Linkwearsgreen]

Link's up B can sweetspot the edge almost immediately... If you hold left after up B he usually grabs the ledge.

Also, if Link is falling with backwards momentum, you can press the control stick straight up and you will get more horizontal distance (which isn't horrible in the first place >_>).

 

[SuSa]

Havok, I have a problem with only one thing on your OP.

This is for pikachus con
"2nd part may not happen by player mistake"

That is just that, a player mistake, it has nothing to do with the characters mechanics.
We are to evaluate at its highest level, right?
The highest level player would not mess up

Lol. Woops. I was tired sorry

Link's up B can sweetspot the edge almost immediately... If you hold left after up B he usually grabs the ledge.

Also, if Link is falling with backwards momentum, you can press the control stick straight up and you will get more horizontal distance (which isn't horrible in the first place >_>).

It's horrible, and left? <_< as long as you're not holding down he can sweetspot the ledge...

 

[Linkwearsgreen]

Oops... I mean hold toward the ledge lol.

And I said that because it says it will only s.s. later in the up B. >_______<

 

[SuSa]

Oops... I mean hold toward the ledge lol.

And I said that because it says it will only s.s. later in the up B. >_______<

It does...

except for the beginning and the end, he keeps going for a while until he s.s.'s the edge

 

[OmegaXF]

Peach shouldn't be labled a a glide....it's a float. Obviously Glides can be altered going Up and Down. Peach can move left/right with no effect on vertical distance, while in a Glide effecting your Vertical Distance will also have an impact on your horizontal momentum. In a glide you do a glide attack which if you glided with your last jump will put you in a freefall postion or if you have jumps left over will allow you to do any aerial or left over jumps or Special moves. Peaches so called Glide makes her float and allows you to do any aerial or Special for an extended amount of time. I really don't see how Peaches Float can be considered a Glide when they are clearly different. I say that should be changed.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

You're right. Let's create a new category and all discuss who has the best Float in Brawl...

 

[OmegaXF]

Im gonna assume sarcasm and keep it at that...

 

[Barge]

Yeah, where else would it go?
It doesn't need its own category.

 

[SuSa]

What Barge said.

It's useless to have its own category, since once I reveal how I'll be doing "overall" (most people probably will disagree with my scoring system, its biased a bit towards those with multiple recoveries) it'd end up being the same, or worse.


eg;
Scores:
Rank x - 1/35 = 35 points towards overall recovery

Rank y - 2/10 + 13/35 + 4/10 = 36 points towards overall recovery

 

[Browny]

;

Pros:
-Travels a very long distance with a massive edge sweetspot
-Ability to wall-cling out of extreme speed gives him a 3rd choice of landing on an stage with an edge (FD, Delfino, Yoshis Island: Brawl, Frigate, possibly others im not sure)
-Can curve the flight path in any sort of shape to fly around edgeguard attempts
-Very low landing lag if Lucario lands extreme speed when angled into the ground at maximum distance

Cons:
-No hitbox on Extreme speed means edgehoggers can hang on ledge indefinitely with no risk of getting stage spiked or damaged
-No invincibility or high priority, any attack will knock him out of it
-Some landing lag if extreme speed is used above the stage level and not cancelled into the ground
-Some start up time and set distance means the timing and direction of extreme speed can be predicted and punished

Which Recovery: Up-b (Extreme Speed)

Rank: D

Yes its bad, but I honestly cant see it on the same level as Link or Luigi-s upb for recovery purposes. and if Olimars upb is rated a tier higher, then this list has problems lol.

 

[Kinzer]

I love how for Down-B recoveries MK goes invisible.

Now it would be even more hilarious if you actually meant to say invulnerable. I suppose you could add that too while you're at it since it is true how MK turns transparent when he executes the Dimensional Cape.

Couple other nitpicks to add:

Sonic does gain a small boost in vertical and/or horizontal distance with his SpinDash hop. I won't take into account it's momentum-cancel abilities since this pertains to recovery, not survivability.

Spin Charge gives him a constant hitbox during the duration so long as he holds forward (well of course he'll be doing this, he wants to get back on the ledge!)... not sure if that counts for anything, but certainly it must since it's like an improved freefall.

Homing Attack sucks, but I suppose like the SpinDash hop, it either allows him some extra distance, or it let's him delay his fall, or both, assuming it doesn't lock-on to anybody.

Jigglypuff's Sing is... 'doh forget it, it doesn't matter how much anybody tries to sugarcoat it, it is bad. At least her Pound gives her (near?) infinite horizontal distance.

Then you have Yoshi's Up-B Egg Toss which can give him a slight vertical boost (probably doesn't work after 5 uses but who uses that many in a real match anyway?) while still carrying over his horizontal momentum.

 

[Zodac]

Up B

olimar -> E rank, there is a reason why he has the worst recovery (=worst)
and this is it, just grab the edge and his dead.

how is ganon in the same UP B tier as falcon? This just blows my mind with logic. I'd explain but it is obvouis why this doesn't make any sense.
also Ganon's recovery is horrible, this is one of the reasons.

Jumps
like i said before:

Spoiler

(i said i couldn't post anything useful cause the topic was so messy not cause i don't know what i'm saying)

pits jumps are better than D3's smaller, faster falling, bad air-movement jumps.

ike has an E grade jump (it's like ganons)

lucas- A rank jump

charizard- S rank ->A rank

"Rank: D

Yes its bad, but I honestly cant see it on the same level as
Link or Luigi-s upb for recovery purposes. and if Olimars
upb is rated a tier higher, then this list has problems lol."

Either that or you are completly wrong, i mean a D? it's a good up B.
Very versitile, moveable, quick start up, you can cling it to most stages and all neutrals if you're pro (this is based on perfect exucution no?) and i believe it has invincible frames, i have trouble hitting him out of it. It only lacks damage, but if it had damageit would be oerpowered i'd give it a B.

my overall recovery rankings:

Metaknight -10
Jigglypuff - 9.5
Pit - 9
Rob - 9
Kirby - 9
Sonic - 8.75
Game and Watch - 8.75
Pikachu - 8.5
Wario - 8.5
Lucas - 8.25
Toon Link - 7.75
King DDD -7.75
ZSS - 7.5
Luigi - 7.5
Lucario - 7.25
Samus - 7.25
Peach - 7
Yoshi - 6.75
Charizard - 6.5
Diddy Kong - 6.25
Fox - 6.25
Snake - 6
Sheik - 6
Ice Climbers - 6
Zelda - 5.5
Squirtle - 5.25
Marth - 5
Captain Falcon - 5
Mario - 4.75
Ness - 4.5
DK - 4.5
Wolf - 4.25
Falco - 4.25
Ike - 4
Bowser - 3.5
Link - 3.5
Ganondorf - 3.5
Ivysaur - 2.25
Olimar - 2.25
Solo Climber - .5
Solo Olimar - .5

the whole vertical+horrizontal=recovery does not work, look at
peach her vertical is one of the worst in the game but her horrizontal
is so good she doesn't need to get up from under the stage.
You can just say "this is the recovery tier list" and that is that.

I would write more/argue, but i just played 90 minutes of football in hot weather and i'm mentally and physically exhausted.

 

[SuSa]

Read the first part of my OP please, everything you stated was pretty much ignored.

Pit's recovery is not a 9

Your recovery list seems strangely close to PKNintendo's

 

[Link Lord]

Character: Link

Pro's of recovery: ...Um....

Con's of recovery: Everything.

Which recovery: Up-B / Spin Attack

Rank: EF (Epic Fail)


Real version:


Character: Link

Pro's of recovery: With horizontal momentum, actually covers a moderate distance.

Multiple hits grant good... de-edgehogging ability.

Con's of recovery: Very short vertical distance.

Need momentum for it to be effective.

Easily gimped from above and behind.

Which recovery: Up-B / Spin Attack

Rank: D-

It's horrible, but not useless. It still gives good protection from edgehogging and a slight protection from edgeguarding due to the mulitple hits. Also, a resulting stage spike if you hit them with just the final slash can really help.

 

[Kinzer]

Well, they were "nitpicks" for a reason.

However I apologize, I'll put it in your format, sometime later when I don't have all of my family visiting and hanging in my room causing me distractions, which is probably why I must've skipped over some of the important stuff in the OP in the first place...

...Silly 8 year old cousin asking me anything and everything possible...

 

[B!squick]

Well, they were "nitpicks" for a reason.

However I apologize, I'll put it in your format, sometime later when I don't have all of my family visiting and hanging in my room causing me distractions, which is probably why I must've skipped over some of the important stuff in the OP in the first place...

...Silly 8 year old cousin asking me anything and everything possible...

I think her comments were directed at Zodac mostly if not entirely.

@Havokk
When figuring out overall recovery with your point system, will you take into account recoveries that put you in free fall? 'Cause overal, Luigi has better recovery than MK minus the Glide since only one of his B moves puts him in free fall.

 

[SuSa]

I think her comments were directed at Zodac mostly if not entirely.

@Havokk
When figuring out overall recovery with your point system, will you take into account recoveries that put you in free fall? 'Cause overal, Luigi has better recovery than MK minus the Glide since only one of his B moves puts him in free fall.

You were correct on the first part that you directed at Kinzer.

For the question you have for me, free fall - while a con because you cannot protect yourself from further attack - is not a con large enough to put Luigi over Meta Knight, even if Meta Knight didn't have either glide.

Their ranking on each list will determine their points. (1st of 36 gets 36 points, 2nd of 26 gets 35 points, etc.)

The points are added.

Then placed on the overall list.

If I deem that to be far to innaccurate of a way to do it, I'll find a better method. But it seems it'll work, because for side-B, glides, etc, those are small lists, so at most they'll get an extra "4" points or so.... not anything drastic, but still a boost compared to everyone else.


The most important list(S) are the side-B and up-B IMHO

 

[XienZo]

Their ranking on each list will determine their points. (1st of 36 gets 36 points, 2nd of 26 gets 35 points, etc.)

The points are added.

Then placed on the overall list.

If I deem that to be far to innaccurate of a way to do it, I'll find a better method. But it seems it'll work, because for side-B, glides, etc, those are small lists, so at most they'll get an extra "4" points or so.... not anything drastic, but still a boost compared to everyone else.

Huh? What about 2 recovery moves that work well with each other, but are luckluster on their own? What about aerials and projectiles that can cover them as they recover? Are we going to ignore all of that?

Also, just because everyone else's down-B sucks in recovering doesn't make Luigi's down B worth as little as Link's up-B. Also, what if the best side-B is only as half as useful as the best up-B? Is it still worth the same amount? Does any Lucas actually use PKT2 over double jump+tether?

 

[SuSa]

Huh? What about 2 recovery moves that work well with each other, but are luckluster on their own? What about aerials and projectiles that can cover them as they recover? Are we going to ignore all of that?

Also, just because everyone else's down-B sucks in recovering doesn't make Luigi's down B worth as little as Link's up-B. Also, what if the best side-B is only as half as useful as the best up-B? Is it still worth the same amount? Does any Lucas actually use PKT2 over double jump+tether?

It has its flaws, I'm trying to work them out.

Aerials/Projectiles that can cover them? Explain.

If you take ****ty recovery 1 + ****ty recovery 2 ; you still get ****ty recovery. No miracles happen. If you take Luigi's side-B : Jump in front of it - he stops. If you take his down-B: hit him out of it, hes pretty screwed. If you take his up-B: no hitstun, easy to hit out of, he better s.s. the ledge. Get where I'm going with this? If you take 3 ****ty recoveries and add them together, right now on this list - it'd be a good recovery because HE's NOT being hit out of it. Once "fine tuning" kicks his, his recovery isn't going to be great in ANY of the 3 categories, so overall his recovery is going to be pretty DECENT or ****TY because thats what it is.

 

[XienZo]

Aerials/Projectiles that can cover them? Explain.

DDD's a rather big slow target when he's jumping back, but who wants to go out and get outprioritized by his bair or risk eating a Gordo?

If you take ****ty recovery 1 + ****ty recovery 2 ; you still get ****ty recovery. No miracles happen. If you take Luigi's side-B : Jump in front of it - he stops. If you take his down-B: hit him out of it, hes pretty screwed. If you take his up-B: no hitstun, easy to hit out of, he better s.s. the ledge. Get where I'm going with this? If you take 3 ****ty recoveries and add them together, right now on this list - it'd be a good recovery because HE's NOT being hit out of it. Once "fine tuning" kicks his, his recovery isn't going to be great in ANY of the 3 categories, so overall his recovery is going to be pretty DECENT or ****TY because thats what it is.

How exactly are you going to go about with "fine tuning"?

 

[SuSa]

DDD's a rather big slow target when he's jumping back, but who wants to go out and get outprioritized by his bair or risk eating a Gordo?



How exactly are you going to go about with "fine tuning"?

You'll see when it happens, explaining it would take to long and I doubt you want to read the past 14 pages of just my posts.

EDIT:

I'm taking today off, I leave to a tournament in an hour. Wish me luck.

 

[illinialex24]

Good luck and make sure sing is in FAIL tier lol

 

[SexTornado]

Jiggly is so light and floaty. If you combine that with rising pounds her horizontal recover should beat out charizard's because his glide is slow and he falls pretty fast even while gliding. If you factor in jiggly's numerous jumps she definately destroys charizard's horizontal recovery imo.

 

[Kage Me]

Zelda:

Pro's of recovery:

• Very long distance (can recover vertically from off-screen on Battlefield)
• Can be angled in many ways, meaning you have amazing distance in all directions.
• Invincible and invisible during the teleport.
• Can sweetspot the ledge to become invincible throughout the move.
• Upon reappearing, has a fairly large hitbox that will clear the area around Zelda.

Con's of recovery:

• Edgehogging isn't difficult due to the recovery taking so long.
• Punishable if the reappearing attack doesn't connect.
• Characters like R.O.B. and Jigglypuff can hit you out of the fairly long start-up animation.
• Only goes in straight lines.
• Being forced to freefall as Zelda really sucks.

Which recovery: Farore's Wind

Rank: A

 

[Gindler]

I just noticed that yoshi wasn't on the jump recovery list yet. When mixed with having the highest aerial speed that massive fast jump is amazing (and he can airdodge through almost all of it)

 

[Barge]

Zelda:

Pro's of recovery:

• Very long distance (can recover vertically from off-screen on Battlefield)
• Can be angled in many ways, meaning you have amazing distance in all directions.
• Invincible and invisible during the teleport.
• Can sweetspot the ledge to become invincible throughout the move.
• Upon reappearing, has a fairly large hitbox that will clear the area around Zelda.

Con's of recovery:
[*]Edgehogging isn't difficult due to the recovery taking so long.
[*]Punishable if the reappearing attack doesn't connect.
[*]Characters like R.O.B. and Jigglypuff can hit you out of the fairly long start-up animation.
[*]Only goes in straight lines.

Which recovery: Farore's Wind

Rank: A

Also, her free fall animation is fail out of it D:

 

[Kage Me]

Added.

10adds

 

[UltiMario]

I swore that MK glided faster than Pit.
At least it feels that way. MK just feels like he glides the fastest of the bunch.

 

[Poltergust]

Let's see...


Yoshi

Pros:

• Can safely attack edgeguarders/edgehoggers.
• Gives Yoshi a slight boost both vertically and horizontally.
• Can be used five times before having to touch the ground.
• Due to Yoshi's air-speed, he really only needs to use this move instead of double-jumping.

Cons:

• The boosts obtained from this move get lower and lower the more you use it without touching the ground.
• Not good at recovering completely vertically.
• Makes recovery a bit predictable.
• Is completely vulnerable during the entire move.
• Momentum lowers a bit after using the move.
• Cannot sweetspot ledge.

I would put Yoshi's up-B at D Rank. His recovery mainly comes from his double-jump, which is like S Rank.

 

[Airgemini]

Rank: A

Zelda's recovery is no where near rank A. C at most.
Her recovery is easily outclassed by other characters in the game.

 

[Browny]

time to move onto side b recoveries methinks

 

[|RK|]

In such a case, Dancing Blade, Cape, Green Missile, Skull Bash and Hammer are good candidates for helping horizontal recovery.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Do not forget Metaknights Side B.

Good luck Havokk

 

[XienZo]

In such a case, Dancing Blade, Cape, Green Missile, Skull Bash and Hammer are good candidates for helping horizontal recovery.

There's also Squall Hammer, Spin Dash, Quick Draw, Plasma Whip, Monkey Flip, Peach Bomber, Din's Fire, Withdraw, Chain, and maybe a few more.

 

[SuSa]

Updated, took 2 days off.

17 more characters to go.