Project M Social Thread

[Wind Owl]

Not currently.

 

[humble]

Might be a code worth working on. In vbrawl, PSing is fairly easy and makes many moves far less useful (Falcos lasers, PS walk towards him and suddenly they are less useful) or PS G&Ws bair, and you can grab him right afterwards. Etc, etc.

 

[Wind Owl]

It's been on the agenda for quite a while.

 

[humble]

Its not on the first page and it hadn't ever been brought up, but good to hear!

 

[Dantarion]

Dojo.
10dojo

 

[GPDP]

You're talking about buffering powershields. The way I understand it, that's only part of the problem. The bigger issue is that, in Brawl, if a hitbox is just grazing the outside edge of the shield bubble when you put it up, it counts as a powershield, but in Melee, the hitbox has to be well within the shield bubble to count as a powershield. That's really why it's so much easier in Brawl, as you can see by powershielding projectiles since buffering powershields doesn't come into play there.

Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that. Thanks.

So, since power shields have been brought up again, I think it would be constructive to more or less come to an understanding on what will be done about them in the final version. Will they be made to work exactly like Melee's power shields in terms of frame windows, PS size, and other properties? Or will there be some changes?

IMO, again, I think the best solution is in between Brawl and Melee. The PS was much too easy to execute in Brawl, which made it too powerful (though it lacked the ability to reflect projectiles). In Melee, however, it was too hard, and wholly unreliable except for reflecting projectiles. If it ever came up, it was almost always accidental. And I insist the resulting slide was stupid, and made following up on a successful PS hard. I think if you successfully PS an attack, you should be rewarded for it.

I guess in the end, it depends on what we believe the PS system should do. It could either function as a parry system of sorts, or it could be like Melee, where it essentially served to get the opponent off of you for a second.

Again, I think a third way between Brawl and Melee's PS function would work best. Make it hard enough to do so that it genuinely requires practice to perfect (removing PS buffering and decreasing the PS box size would help with this), but not so hard that it only really happens accidentally (increase the window by a frame or two). And when it is performed successfully, reward the PSer with follow-up options.

Of course, there's the chance this could make the ground game differ from Melee, and since this project aims to recreate the Melee experience to a substantial degree, I'm not sure how willing people would be to adopt it (especially the kind that want this game to follow all of Melee's mechanics to the letter). But I think this system would increase (insert D-word here) and make for a more functional PS system.

 

[shanus]

Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that. Thanks.

So, since power shields have been brought up again, I think it would be constructive to more or less come to an understanding on what will be done about them in the final version.

It is impossible to answer this considering its pretty weird programming. I've examined the shield functions in detail, and haven't had much success except for extending the endlag (Yay for 2 line codes).

We'll see where it goes

 

[Wind Owl]

In Melee, however, it was too hard, and wholly unreliable except for reflecting projectiles. If it ever came up, it was almost always accidental.

No johns.

Spoiler

10johns

 

[shanus]

PS it wasn't too hard in melee. Explain why my lasers would be reflected at me ALL the time haha

 

[Cyan_Blau]

I gotcha. I do agree it's a bit superfluous to Project M, but I wanted to make sure it was known to be easy (except if it needs to be optional, in which case I haven't the slightest how you'd do it).

As an off-hand interesting idea, item stealing as a character-specific thing could be an interesting balancing tool. Have trouble with Peach/Diddy/Snake/Links? Give 'em a throw that steals items.

Unfortunately it does rather reek of hax as a whole.

On an unrelated note, it's great to hear the news on the analog shielding code!

Yeah, also Wind_Owl had/has time and already said that it wouldn't be that hard... but I've to look for it sometimes later.

Also it's an item steal grab. As you could see in the video. Captain Falcon grabbed Pikachu and got its item in the same way as he grabbed it.

But anyway you can PM me if you wanna talk about it. Maybe you also can make a new threat and ask the workers of this project to use the character .pac files.

Also I would prefer to have it as code.

______

Back to the topic:

Light pressing L/R button would be cool. Would it support wavedash? (competitvely)

 

[GPDP]

PS it wasn't too hard in melee. Explain why my lasers would be reflected at me ALL the time haha

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough (happens to me too often, I've observed ), but I was mainly talking about PSing attacks, not projectiles. Though in Melee, the window for PSing projectiles is lower than for attacks (2 frames as opposed to 4, thanks Magus!), projectiles, of course, come from a distance, so naturally, you'll see them coming for longer, and can more easily PS them and reflect them. I have no problems with how Melee handles PSing projectiles, and I hope you manage to bring that back.

Attacks are far harder to PS because they're up close, so you have to be insanely good at predicting them and timing the button press, and I'm not sure 4 frames is high enough. Brawl gets away with it because of the bigger PS size and shield buffering, even when the window is 2 frames like in Brawl+.

All I'm saying is, when you do manage to be able to modify power shields to work more or less like in Melee, give them a window of 5 or 6 frames, and see what happens. For attacks, that is. Projectiles can stay at 2 frames. At the very least, don't add back the stupid PS knockback.

 

[shanus]

Realistically speaking, I don't think I'll be able to modify how powershields work that much. Its unclear how its actually triggered as its embedded in part of shieldstun, and nothing during the shield action actually points to shield stun lol

 

[kupo15]

For removing auto PSing I have a question. If you land from the air straight to the shield, does the Normal Standing animation ever come into existence or is it Falling > shield?

If there is no Standing animation then can't you just use an action replacement that PK made so that in order to PS you MUST go through any of the standard actions first? (standing, crouching, walking, running)

 

[shanus]

For removing auto PSing I have a question. If you land from the air straight to the shield, does the Normal Standing animation ever come into existence or is it Falling > shield?

If there is no Standing animation then can't you just use an action replacement that PK made so that in order to PS you MUST go through any of the standard actions first? (standing, crouching, walking, running)

Very interesting idea. It'd be a bit of a pain in the *** to program, but very cool idea.

 

[KyloWinter]

are you still looking for beta testers?

 

[Kix]

Only those with Carl Rogers avatars are allowed to be beta testers.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

How about when your hogging the edge and you go to ledgedrop rising dair your opponent (commonplace falco staple). In brawl, even with large warp distance, I would *accidentally* footstool the opponent when just trying to jump. The fact that the action isn't controllable, leads to phantom footstools when the opponent isn't in hitstun or jump or fall just shows its bad programming.,

Fair enough, I'm just annoyed because I'm gonna have to relearn to Footstool (I use it all the time as a Jigglypuff main) and I use the Control Stick to jump so... it's even worse for me.

 

[Archangel]

Fair enough, I'm just annoyed because I'm gonna have to relearn to Footstool (I use it all the time as a Jigglypuff main) and I use the Control Stick to jump so... it's even worse for me.

not sure if you played melee jiggs but trust me she doesn't need it.

 

[jalued]

not sure if you played melee jiggs but trust me she doesn't need it.

tbh footstalling is a no risk, massive reward mechanics, and hence have no place in any smash game... everyone complained about sonic's spring getting a spike in BBrawl, footstalling is basically the same thing, but EVERYONE has it

i think mario should be the only character to be able to do it, at most

 

[Wind Owl]

Or, if risk is the issue, simply make pressing Utaunt in the air lose your jumps.

 

[jalued]

Or, if risk is the issue, simply make pressing Utaunt in the air lose your jumps.

or make the sweetspot smaller and only let mario do it...

in melee physics, footstall = instant 0% death...and is non character specific

that is a problem

 

[Shell]

Ganon now has Hi and Low Ftilts with custom animations. However, he'll never be able to use a screw-attack item again.

....Good trade.

 

[Rudra]

Hey Shanus, did you ever get "Meteor canceling" for footstools working? Perhaps that would make them less lethal. (Not that I'm disappointed in seeing them go).

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Ganon now has Hi and Low Ftilts with custom animations. However, he'll never be able to use a screw-attack item again.

....Good trade.

I can imagine him now XD

use the screw attack and he will try to perform the Ftilt Hi/Lw XD or, did you go to psa and made those sub actiones have animation tag as "none" ?

if you didn't XD, the item will perform the Hi/Lw Ftilts when jumping with Screw Attack

 

[ValTroX]

we can only imagine a day when we can add animations at will, anyway...screw screw attack? :D

 

[UltyBomber77]

Ganon now has Hi and Low Ftilts with custom animations. However, he'll never be able to use a screw-attack item again.

....Good trade.

why not remove smashthrow___ instead of the screw attack?
that's what i did with my psa for mario

 

[Thebest1pj]

why is this game being made? because my assumption so far is you sucked at brawl and weren't to good at melee , but liked the brawl chars so you want to put them in the game your better at which s melee but still suck at it.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Okay i can understand the footstool input being an issue, but it being a no risk technique really has no relevance. It would be even less intuitive then it already is to make footstooling get rid of your jumps.

If you're going to make footstools less powerful, fine. They should still be able to be used in recovery though. For people ledgehogging Sonic or Snake, footstool is pretty much a reason to not hang on there the entire time.

 

[GP&B]

why is this game being made? because my assumption so far is you sucked at brawl and weren't to good at melee , but liked the brawl chars so you want to put them in the game your better at which s melee but still suck at it.

Joke post? Otherwise, this is just a really bad strawman and the same one some fools used against Brawl+.

 

[vectorace]

jut a thought if ur bringing any major overhauls to stages how about the old legend of zelda stage from SSb64? would that be possible

 

[Archangel]

tbh footstalling is a no risk, massive reward mechanics, and hence have no place in any smash game... everyone complained about sonic's spring getting a spike in BBrawl, footstalling is basically the same thing, but EVERYONE has it

i think mario should be the only character to be able to do it, at most

I agree 100%

why is this game being made? because my assumption so far is you sucked at brawl and weren't to good at melee , but liked the brawl chars so you want to put them in the game your better at which s melee but still suck at it.

LOLwtf! contrary to popular belief 90% of melee players are at least decent vbrawl players. I for 1 was about twice as good at brawl as I was at melee when I quit the game. The problem is brawl is a special ed edition of melee. Brawl can be fun if not played seriously but competitively it is a fighting game with training wheels on. To answer you, This project's purpose is to remove those training wheels.

 

[Thebest1pj]

I agree 100%


LOLwtf! contrary to popular belief 90% of melee players are at least decent vbrawl players. I for 1 was about twice as good at brawl as I was at melee when I quit the game. The problem is brawl is a special ed edition of melee. Brawl can be fun if not played seriously but competitively it is a fighting game with training wheels on. To answer you, This project's purpose is to remove those training wheels.

so should i expect this of every version of smash to come now?We dont like this one so we're gonna change it. and brawl will never be a a fighting game it lacks certain things its party game and will remain one no matter what change .-. like melee

 

[Dark Sonic]

don't feed the troll

that is all

 

[Shadic]

It's amazing how stupid people can be, ain't it, guys? Can we get a mod up in here?

As far as Ganon-tilts, there's gotta be a different subaction you can remove, or something. Is there really no way to use subactions that aren't normally used by a character? It seems strange.

 

[Shell]

sub-actions aren't the limiting factor. It's animation slots.

 

[Eldiran]

sub-actions aren't the limiting factor. It's animation slots.

How do you mean? Are you replacing the ScrewAttack animations? (You know you can add new animations in, right?)

I hope I don't sound derisive -- I'm sure you know what you're doing. I just haven't heard of such a limit.

 

[Archangel]

so should i expect this of every version of smash to come now?We dont like this one so we're gonna change it.

let the record show brawl is only smash game so far to be hacked for improved gameplay. Let the record also show that smash 64 & melee can be hacked for textures and gameplay changes......so why weren't they?

don't feed the troll

that is all

sorry i'm extremely bored and I have no interest/idea about sub-actions LOL

 

[Shadic]

sub-actions aren't the limiting factor. It's animation slots.

I'm with Eldiran here. Wasn't aware of any such limitation, perhaps size.

 

[Cyan_Blau]

Would Ganondorf crash, if I try to use screw attack with him?

 

[The_Guide]

Would Ganondorf crash, if I try to use screw attack with him?

From what I understand, he'd just do a forward tilt. That's how they're getting the angled tilts in, by using the screw attack page as a place to put the f-tilt's data/animations.