PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Brookman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBBoVYVP3M&feature=sub

Yedi asked me to crit this video a couple weeks ago and I never got around to it. I went to a tournament with him and zoso a few weeks back and decided to try my hand @ falco against this powershielding machine. I had not luck :]

I figure he's already posted this but I want to post it again just for the sake of my own personal interest.

 

[Druggedfox]

PP i had some questions bout throwing Jiggs.

First off i notice u dont use dthrow against her? why is that?

roughly around what % do u start looking for upthrow upair for the kill?

how do u make upthrow fair work at low %s? this goes for marth and other floaties too

If they're smart they'll tech your dthrow after DI'ing it down.

If they're really smart they'll rest you out of it.

 

[Mogwai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBBoVYVP3M&feature=sub

Yedi asked me to crit this video a couple weeks ago and I never got around to it. I went to a tournament with him and zoso a few weeks back and decided to try my hand @ falco against this powershielding machine. I had not luck :]

I figure he's already posted this but I want to post it again just for the sake of my own personal interest.

I think the best and only way to beat Dave is to convince him that you're better than him so that he gets nervous and doesn't 0-death you off of Powershields all game.

 

[strawhats]

dEEZ *****S MAD SALTY

also, is M2K gonna be at GSG2 and make all the finals a snooze fest

again

he means DGDTJ (don't go down there jeff) and no m2k is not going.

 

[Brookman]

I think the best and only way to beat Dave is to convince him that you're better than him so that he gets nervous and doesn't 0-death you off of Powershields all game.

I honestly came to this conclusion myself.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP i had some questions bout throwing Jiggs.

First off i notice u dont use dthrow against her? why is that?

roughly around what % do u start looking for upthrow upair for the kill?

how do u make upthrow fair work at low %s? this goes for marth and other floaties too

Dthrow sucks vs good puffs lol. They can DI away and be safe, or tech and be safe. both you pretty much have to predict to hope to get anything off.

Depends on the stage/positioning lol, but sometimes I can just tell/do it anyway. If I had to guess, I'd say grab at 100 on most stages is a pretty safe bet for a kill.

It's mostly a thing to catch them off guard lol I don't think it actually works but I'm not sure. The lasers have to hit(meaning they either didn't react to the throw or weren't ready for it regardless) and then if they don't DI it too much you can usually abuse the minimal stun the lasers give you for the Fair. Sorry it's kinda vague lol but that's how I think about it.

 

[Ben-Teezee]

nope all the answers were helpful.

reason i asked is because here in NY players are really focused on survival for the most part so i play against ppl who are ready to DI upthrow the second they get grabbed, that being said idk if its from fighting fox or what but the general "reaction" di is to DI behind me so a strategy I kinda was thinking about and has worked for me vs medium level jiggs is to mixup between dthrow and upthrow depending on if i think they saw the grab coming. if they dont tech the dthrow and DI it behind u then uptilt kills them post 105ish % and if i think theyre ready to tech throw them up and go for the upair. granted its not guaranteed either way but i think its a pretty decent mixup and ive found pretty good success wit it. thoughts?

 

[JPOBS]

also, is M2K gonna be at GSG2 and make all the finals a snooze fest
again

he means DGDTJ (don't go down there jeff) and no m2k is not going.

I know that GSG2=DGDTJ

what i don't understand is how m2k makes finals a "snooze fest"

literally, any match m2k plays in is worth watching. whether he's 4stocking spacies or going 9 game GF sets with pp

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

nope all the answers were helpful.

reason i asked is because here in NY players are really focused on survival for the most part so i play against ppl who are ready to DI upthrow the second they get grabbed, that being said idk if its from fighting fox or what but the general "reaction" di is to DI behind me so a strategy I kinda was thinking about and has worked for me vs medium level jiggs is to mixup between dthrow and upthrow depending on if i think they saw the grab coming. if they dont tech the dthrow and DI it behind u then uptilt kills them post 105ish % and if i think theyre ready to tech throw them up and go for the upair. granted its not guaranteed either way but i think its a pretty decent mixup and ive found pretty good success wit it. thoughts?

Well if it works on mid level puffs, then keep using it I guess lol. Dthrow is just slow enough to allow better puffs to react and DI away at the very least. Uthrowing before they can react to the grab is nice in itself and helps with kills from grabs, and if you think they'll DI then I suppose you can hold them for a second before throwing(what m2K said PC did to him should apply here too I guess).

-pp

 

[battousai555]

What do y'all think about laser->turn around retreating bair?

 

[Brookman]

NeVER ReTREAT!!!! >>>:O

 

[FoxLisk]

i dont see why it would ever be the best option. probably hard to punish but you're not gonna get much off of it. at most youll land a bair.

 

[battousai555]

i dont see why it would ever be the best option. probably hard to punish but you're not gonna get much off of it. at most youll land a bair.

I've been using it against my friend's Falcon and haven't been punished for it yet. I just throw it out occasionally, along with laser->up-tilt. He usually doesn't expect to get hit with either, so both usually lead to funny things

 

[FoxLisk]

well of course you're not getting punished. retreating bair is very hard to punish. but it doesn't lead to anything.

utilt does lead to things but is very easy to punish... he can just hold his shield and grab you

 

[battousai555]

utilt does lead to things but is very easy to punish... he can just hold his shield and grab you

Not if I turn around and space it well.

 

[Sage Osaka]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure decently spaced utilt spam is impossible to punish...

 

[SK919]

mew2king is viewing this thread. He's coming for dat *** kevin

 

[Bl@ckChris]

sup pp

falco isn't that good.

this thread ain't sticky'd.

and be it here or elsewhere, we need to talk about the falco v ganon matchup.

that's right, that 55-45 (at worst) matchup that i'm gonna start owning you in soon.

 

[Mogwai]

Falco Ganon is 100-0, but it's the most fun matchup in the game if Falco's not a little gaybag, so it's more like 65-35 when they're playing for funsies.

 

[V3ctorMan]

somebody tell PP yes i'm still up for it.. He'll know what i'm talking about.. thanks all ^^

 

[Melomaniacal]

somebody tell PP yes i'm still up for it.. He'll know what i'm talking about.. thanks all ^^

Hey, what can you tell me about Falco vs. Yoshi?
I've come across a Yoshi main recently, and I have no clue how to deal with some Yoshi shenanigans.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Falco Ganon is 100-0, but it's the most fun matchup in the game if Falco's not a little gaybag, so it's more like 65-35 when they're playing for funsies.

yeah, i used to think that, not too long ago, in fact.

then i got better, and realized falco really isn't that good.

 

[Dr Peepee]

What do y'all think about laser->turn around retreating bair?

I wouldn't advise it much vs Falcon, but it was actually suggested to me as a decent approach vs floating Peach. I have yet to test it but I like the idea.

mew2king is viewing this thread. He's coming for dat *** kevin

That's okay, I'm gonna study him too. White people studying ftw

sup pp

falco isn't that good.

this thread ain't sticky'd.

and be it here or elsewhere, we need to talk about the falco v ganon matchup.

that's right, that 55-45 (at worst) matchup that i'm gonna start owning you in soon.

sup

word

cuz I'm not good.

I'm cool with 55-45, but no one would listen to that so I just say 60-40 LOL.

Play me more so I can come up with gay counters to Ganon's S. =p

somebody tell PP yes i'm still up for it.. He'll know what i'm talking about.. thanks all ^^

<333333333 I'll PM you when the time comes.

yeah, i used to think that, not too long ago, in fact.

then i got better, and realized falco really isn't that good.

Slowly, people will learn if they take the time to figure stuff out all the stuff old school already knew lol. Good shiz(not an insult).

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah. i think i've made some progress. there are def some vids of me vs sneak that we should talk about soon.

i need to play you more so i can finish developing counters to all of falcos gay stuff. utilt is still such a dumb move.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hey, what can you tell me about Falco vs. Yoshi?
I've come across a Yoshi main recently, and I have no clue how to deal with some Yoshi shenanigans.

tbh, if you space Yoshi.. all day.... or play "patient" and attack here and there not being aggressive.. I honestly don't know what to do ><;

 

[Little England]

Falco v Ganon is definitely 55-45

Haha

 

[Mogwai]

Falco ***** Ganon, but you have to play gay.

Falco ***** Yoshi by not trying too hard with combos. Just bair him so that you don't fall into stupid DJC nair crap that ***** you with juggernaut frames.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Falco ***** Ganon, but you have to play gay.

Falco ***** Yoshi by not trying too hard with combos. Just bair him so that you don't fall into stupid DJC nair crap that ***** you with juggernaut frames.

Have you seen Linguini's counters to Falco's gayness?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, it really isn't enough for falco to just "play gay"

it really might be more successful for you to just run at us really freakin hard. if we straight miss a powershield, or if you bait one and punish, things have potential to go badly quickly, but with the right DI, this too, can be dealt with...to a degree.

the counters exist. and ya'll should watch out. cuz falco ain't dat good.

and i'ma train wit pp some when i can, so i can **** all of ya'll

WE OUT

 

[SSBMLahti]

the counters exist. and ya'll should watch out. cuz falco ain't dat good.

Fuhrer King Bradley does not approve.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

lol i just watched the 24th episode of FMA: brotherhood.

ganon is still the greatest king.

 

[Mogwai]

Have you seen Linguini's counters to Falco's gayness?

i mean, he's good at powershielding and jumping backwards with fair, but I dunno, as long as you make Ganon jump at you and then punish, the matchup feels really easy.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

FMA: brotherhood.

def the best **** you'll ever have the pleasure of watching

 

[Dr Peepee]

i mean, he's good at powershielding and jumping backwards with fair, but I dunno, as long as you make Ganon jump at you and then punish, the matchup feels really easy.

Taking the laser and jabbing beats several approaches, Uair OOS is a clever bait that is extremely difficult to punish if at all. If Ganon is in the air from a FH if he gets lasered he's out of stun so he can double jump backwards immediately and Fair, covering his landing. Seems safe to me, and mind you that's if he does that every time. He's entirely capable of switching things up and using Ftilt over jab, and approaching vs retreating Fair on the double jump, among other mixups in various situations.

Ganon actually has a pretty darn safe shield grab if he shield DIs both the aerial and shine away from Falco. Going behind Ganon is pretty good but overshooting vs him is pretty tough, especially since forcing Ganon to shield is actually kinda difficult in itself.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I think mogwai is saying ganon really cant do much if falco sits under a platform and shoots lasers. I feel like alot of characters have tools to stop falcos approaches, but I wonder if they can still succeed when falco is played super defensively.

 

[justice]

Taking the laser and jabbing beats several approaches, Uair OOS is a clever bait that is extremely difficult to punish if at all. If Ganon is in the air from a FH if he gets lasered he's out of stun so he can double jump backwards immediately and Fair, covering his landing. Seems safe to me, and mind you that's if he does that every time. He's entirely capable of switching things up and using Ftilt over jab, and approaching vs retreating Fair on the double jump, among other mixups in various situations.

Ganon actually has a pretty darn safe shield grab if he shield DIs both the aerial and shine away from Falco. Going behind Ganon is pretty good but overshooting vs him is pretty tough, especially since forcing Ganon to shield is actually kinda difficult in itself.

I've been wondering but how do you shield di? Do you smash directions while in stun or something?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think mogwai is saying ganon really cant do much if falco sits under a platform and shoots lasers. I feel like alot of characters have tools to stop falcos approaches, but I wonder if they can still succeed when falco is played super defensively.

Giving Ganon stage control seems bad to me too. Dair that can reach through platforms, fallthrough aerials(uair and bair seem most common) that come out quickly and cover lots of range, combined with a great waveland speed and the Fair that, from a higher position still covers the majority of space Falco is attempting to hide under(along with any other sort of laser/approach counters Ganon has once in that position....unless Falco is going to retreat to the edge that is I suppose) seems to at the very least threaten Falco lasering under a platform. I don't even know how many stages besides DL that Falco would even want to try to attempt that vs Ganon on, but I wouldn't wager it would be even half the neutrals.



Edit: to shield DI you hit a direction when your shield has been attacked. You can angle your shield to definitely shield DI before your shield gets hit but that increases the likelihood of being shield stabbed as well.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

Edit: to shield DI you hit a direction when your shield has been attacked. You can angle your shield to definitely shield DI before your shield gets hit but that increases the likelihood of being shield stabbed as well.

wow

i never knew what shield di was

now i know

i'm gonna get 1st place at nationals now

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Lol'd hard as all.

 

[ArcNatural]

I think the best and only way to beat Dave is to convince him that you're better than him so that he gets nervous and doesn't 0-death you off of Powershields all game.

This is so true...