PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

He is getting kind of rusty, and I'm good vs Falcon. I don't think I'll **** him though, if that's what you're wondering. I guess there's only one way to find out for sure. =)

Best Peach? XIF. He's too aggro compared to other Peaches though. I could always laser him out of his FC approaches so I had it pretty good vs him. Slower/more adaptive Peaches could give me problems but I think I'm putting it together in my head. Only one way to find out for this one too. =p

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

When can falco shine out of shield from an attack? The first frame the opponents attack ends or somewhere inbetween the attacks?

 

[Ryan-K]

dont approach peach on the ground she will turn you into a bird smoothie. you really can hit peach in the air in fact it always pays off for me unless you hit her with dair at low percents lol. weak nairs and **** keep her in the air so you can utilt. always keep peach in the air always always. keep her above you no matter what. know when and when not to cc. also be aware of the grabbing hitbox behind her. dont shield fc aerials just try to move. falco is more mobile than peach in like almost everyway. just look in the old matchup thread i kind of wrote a majority of the peach section and despite it being old a great majority of it if not all of it is still relevant. just don't get caught in your shield because once she hits your shield with a fair she can either **** your shield with dsmash/nair nonsense, jab you if you try to jump or anything, dash attack your rolls, or if you're at high percent just do a FJ nair to kill you if you try to jump, EVEN IF YOU TRY TO SH DAIR. i think the problem is too many people shield against peach. almost any match of any peach i guarantee it people lose against peach because they shield too much. your dair beats all her moves except parasol from below or if you are level with her on the x-axis fair if you go straight into her like a moron. also you can make them fair early by running in tilting your shield up and usmash. at low percents you can cc her dash attack and ****. just stop being scared

/unorganized rant

 

[Dr Peepee]

That's pretty helpful, thanks Ryan.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

When can falco shine out of shield from an attack? The first frame the opponents attack ends or somewhere

 

[Ryan-K]

falco can shine out of shield when shieldstun ends + when the lag from starting his jump ends. i think he has like 5 frames of startup from his jump or something but im pretty sure shine is his fastest option but you can also get hit out of it. it's basically the same timing as like bair out of shield except you press down b and if you do it fast enough you stay on the ground. which is balling outrageous.

pp- yeah np man. i have had mad peach experience in my early days but it makes sense. look at mew2king or even like mango vs. armada or anyone vs. any decent peach even. they usually do good until they start shielding. i remember a long time ago in tourney my friend alejandro beat this fox kip that he lost to earlier in tourney by literally just doing fc fairs on his shield and then FJ nair as he jumped. peach shield pressures by going into floating mode then hitting you with a big move with no lag then she can do certain moves that stuff all your options or **** your shield to nothing in 2 moves, which is totally contrasted from spacies pressure which just abuses how fast they are and how many options the shine gives them, but spacies pressure also has open frames. peach just keeps you in stun almost forever and waits for you to do something. if you choose not to do something you either get dsmash or grab.

 

[Igcoris]

Thanks for clearing up and answering my stupid questions, mogwai.

i always think about not staying in my shield, but i end up staying in my shield against peach anyways.

 

[Charlesz]

any advice on how to di marth's upthrow to uptilt/f smash ?

 

[PEEF!]

Behind

10behinds

But they can still hit you regardless if they are good enough after like 50-60.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

isn't forward and behind the same thing?

DI uthrow behind between 0-15
No DI between 15-28
DI wherever after that

This is just the way to do it with the largest possibility of forcing a mistake. If the marth doesn't make a mistake, there is no way out until ~35% when the utilt comes.

 

[Igcoris]

isn't forward and behind the same thing?

what do you mean by this?

 

[PEEF!]

isn't forward and behind the same thing?

No, you can DI marth Uthrow farther behind than forward. Try it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

hmmm never knew that. Just figured it was the same distance either way.

 

[Mogwai]

I think the distance is the same, or at least very very close, for DIing in front of and behind his uthrow, but if you DI behind at 0, I don't think he can regrab because of the extra frame he needs to turn around when you DI behind. I might be wrong on that, but whenever I manage to DI a uthrow at 0 behind him, Marths miss the regrab.

 

[Niko45]

I think the distance is the same, or at least very very close, for DIing in front of and behind his uthrow, but if you DI behind at 0, I don't think he can regrab because of the extra frame he needs to turn around when you DI behind. I might be wrong on that, but whenever I manage to DI a uthrow at 0 behind him, Marths miss the regrab.

Yes, I believe this is why Marths are taught to fthrow to regrab at 0 (tho this is also escapable with DI away - buffer roll/dodge).

 

[ChivalRuse]

Why chaingrab when you can just fthrow regrab uthrow regrab dthrow fsmash and then gimp Falco? ^^

 

[Mogwai]

cause some Falcos have finally figured out how to tech that dthrow over these past 3 years.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

cause some Falcos have finally figured out how to tech that dthrow over these past 3 years.

 

[Ryan-K]

at mid percents either do slight DI or if you think hes gonna utilt, DI the uthrow in front of him then DI the utilt behind him so he can't follow up. if you Di the throw behind him and he utilts if the back of the utilt hits u regardless of DI you go straight up. i don't know why but people stopped doing the slight DI thing. it still works guys lol. also you can buffer a sidestep at 0 out of the fthrow and maybe a roll. but marth cant regrab falco at 0 from uthrow.

and idk why im posting so much in here now lol

 

[Mogwai]

at mid percents either do slight DI or if you think hes gonna utilt, DI the uthrow in front of him then DI the utilt behind him so he can't follow up. if you Di the throw behind him and he utilts if the back of the utilt hits u regardless of DI you go straight up. i don't know why but people stopped doing the slight DI thing. it still works guys lol. also you can buffer a sidestep at 0 out of the fthrow and maybe a roll. but marth cant regrab falco at 0 from uthrow.

and idk why im posting so much in here now lol

cause it's the new Falco advice hotspot and you're mad smart about ****?

Marth can regrab Falco at 0 if you don't DI iirc.

 

[Teczer0]

cause it's the new Falco advice hotspot and you're mad smart about ****?

Marth can regrab Falco at 0 if you don't DI iirc.

Depends on the throw

Marth can regrab falco with upthrow at 0 if Falco doesn't DI or DIs away. But can't regrab at 0 if Falco DIs behind marth

And the opposite for marth's fthrow at 0

 

[Mogwai]

only if they also remember to buffer spot dodge (i'm not sure buffer roll works, but it probably does).

 

[Teczer0]

Yea this is true

I can beat Tope. I JV 4'd him at HERB 2, but I feel like I may have gotten worse at the matchup lol. Don't know how I'll do vs Peaches though....

So I hear. =p

Nah dude, Falcons are what I like to beat. =)

Wait....

O________o

 

[Dr Peepee]

Dude I'm weird.

Edit: I think I forgot how to beat Sheik. I may have re-learned, but I'm not sure.

 

[JPOBS]

marth can regrab a fthrow at 0 no matter how you DI unless you buffer something.

and marth can't regrab a upthrow at 0 on no DI. you fall too fast. Isnt that why marth's always fthrow first/ the 7% is how they start the chain grab.

 

[Mogwai]

I know for a fact he can regrab @ 0% vs. no DI and I'm 90% certain he can regrab vs. DI in front of him.

 

[JPOBS]

if thats so then why do marths always fthrow first?
even m2k the robot always fthrows at 0.

 

[Mogwai]

because you can't grab DI behind when you u-throw, and the only way you can't re-grab with a f-throw is Di away + a buffer. Doing 1 thing to escape is easier than doing 2, especially with how fast Marth's throws are.

 

[Rubyiris]

I apparently was doing alot of my execution wrong with every character except for marth. @_@

I noticed this when I started messing around with falcon without even attempting to l-cancel. I often pushed L much too early, which explained why I missed l-cancels a ****ton.

I still flub wavedashes somewhat but my technical skill got randomly super consistent in the span of 30 minutes. xD

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

To Mogwai&orPP;

Do either of you have a little decent section on Falco's grab game? I need to start mixing grabs in more just to confuse my opponent with my pressure game, but it seems like alot of grabs don't lead into much.

If i could just get some advice on falcos grab game against the heavier characters(Fox/Falco/Falcon), maybe what percents would be the best throw and also what would be decent to follow-up with.

Also, is attempting to grab marth a bad idea? JW.

Thanks :D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

just grab to make them shield less. grab->fthrow. they are now closer to the edge which is good news for you. If they shield again, grab again and fthrow them off the stage. laser->grab is pretty good if they are shielding the lasers

 

[X1-12]

why is there a mogwaii thread and a PP thread but they both write on both of them?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Actually, Mogwai just just writes in mine because he knows more stuff than I do. I wrote on his because I didn't want to ask a question in my own thread lol. I guess I made my own thread to do matchups but then we got an extra thread for that lol. Edit: We're really awesome though. That helps a lot. =p

@Trahh- Grabbing Marth is tricky. If you try it off of a laser Marth could up-B or Fair OOS, and otherwise it's too slow to catch Marth off guard. I find that grabs are typically best by the edge when Marth isn't willing to retreat or risk an attack that could get him knocked offstage. Momentum based grabs are still really good though.

As for a guide, then I guess I could try to whip something up.

 

[Mogwai]

cause we're that awesome! I mean, we're both subscribed to each other's threads and frequently have knowledge on what people are asking in the other thread and thus end up posting about it. Maybe they should be consolodated, but this system seems fine.

As I see it, my thread is more lesson-oriented and theory-based, whereas PP's is more Q&A-driven and experience-based. Related note, my stuff on the Marth and Sheik matchups will be going up in the Matchup thread tonight, along with a formatting make over to make it more readable. I'll also see if I can get some Peach stuff up too, but I HIGHLY doubt it'll be complete.

 

[Dr Peepee]

<3 Mogwai. I'll have to step up my matchup advice-giving skills after Pound or you'll have the whole thread done way before me. =p

 

[Mogwai]

o.O not really, you have a lot more in there right now than I do, I'm the one playing catchup . I'm going with job-johns for that though...

 

[Rubyiris]

To Mogwai&orPP;

Do either of you have a little decent section on Falco's grab game? I need to start mixing grabs in more just to confuse my opponent with my pressure game, but it seems like alot of grabs don't lead into much.

If i could just get some advice on falcos grab game against the heavier characters(Fox/Falco/Falcon), maybe what percents would be the best throw and also what would be decent to follow-up with.

Also, is attempting to grab marth a bad idea? JW.

Thanks :D

grab > uthrow > uair as falco vs marth is love.

 

[Strong Badam]

marth uthrow (falco di behind) turnaround jab is EPIC

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, so I probably shouldn't be posting this here, but it's my thread so whatever lol.

I've worked really hard to get prepared for this guys. I hope to rep Falco(since a few other important ones bailed) and myself hard at Pound, and your support is always appreciated. If I meet anyone here at Pound, then I hope I get to play you, and if I get recorded, then I hope we can all learn from the silly things I do. =p

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Yeah, so I probably shouldn't be posting this here, but it's my thread so whatever lol.

I've worked really hard to get prepared for this guys. I hope to rep Falco(since a few other important ones bailed) and myself hard at Pound, and your support is always appreciated. If I meet anyone here at Pound, then I hope I get to play you, and if I get recorded, then I hope we can all learn from the silly things I do. =p

hell yeah. i'll be watching your **** from livestreams. you better get on AIM somehow and tell me yo status ***. get that top5!