PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Igcoris]

Does spot dodge -> shine work on spacies nowadays? Do I need frame perfect timing for my spot dodge to dodge an aerial attack and shine right after? I always thought spot dodge was invincible

 

[Dr Peepee]

It works on spacies sometimes it works, but if the spacies adapt to you and start delaying their shine timing, then you're in trouble. Definitely not a spammable tactic to me. Frame-perfection isn't required.

@Kiko: what shaeman said.

 

[forward]

PP do you use Falco in teams? If so, what characters do you like to use him with?

 

[TresChikon]

How do I deal with Ganon's reverse u-air?

Sweetspotted phantasm and firebird still get hit by tipmans and since I can't tech them I get dropzone ***** afterwards before I can do anything.

When you get cornered, what do you like to do in order to regain center stage?

 

[Silent Wolf]

yo falcos check dis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_a7KspmX8w

 

[TresChikon]

Kirby was amazing in that video.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP do you use Falco in teams? If so, what characters do you like to use him with?

I do use Falco in teams. My experiences are extremely limited at high level play, but I have a teammate who is a Fox, LoZR. We do amazing things together because we work together well in teams and just because of our playstyles. Fox's speed allows him to support Falco if he needs it and Fox can also get those kills Falco really has to fish for at times. Plus, spacies team is straight momentum. If we get the first kill then we tend to roll right through stocks.

Beyond that, I can't tell you anything besides theory.

I'm leaving to go play LoZR a lot today actually(finally!), but I'll answer everything else when I get back.

Silent wolf, your video *****.

 

[forward]

Yea, in my exp Fox and Marth have been the best teammates. IC's are actually not bad tho, that team just gets worked by peach though.

 

[Mogwai]

IMO:
Fox
Falcon
Jiggs (only if the Jiggs is good at resting out of your gratuitous hitstun moves)
Sheik

Run speed and combo finishers seem like a big deal for Falco teammates in my experience, hence Falcon being my 2nd favorite after Fox (shine/utilt -> teammate knee anyone?). I've never liked teaming with marth, so that might just be a preference thing on my part, but Marth Falco has always just felt clunky to me. Luigi and ICs seems like they're pretty good for the same reason (move quickly across the stage), but both those teams get ***** when you're not playing vs. teams you can combo **** (read, teams with a Peach or Puff).

 

[forward]

Eh, I don't like teaming with Falcon that much as Falco. If you ever hit hiim with a laser it messes him up so badly, and you're more likely to hit him with a laser because he's not as jumpy as fox, or as floaty as marth.

I think Sheik would be better for Falco if she could save him better, but she's not that good at breaking up double teams imo, so when they start double teaming his recovery she has a hard time saving him.

I like Fox/Marth for teammates b/c neither of those problems apply to them.

 

[KikoMePlease]

Do you have any tips for the falco vs sheik matchup?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

How do I deal with Ganon's reverse u-air?

Sweetspotted phantasm and firebird still get hit by tipmans and since I can't tech them I get dropzone ***** afterwards before I can do anything.

this question seemed to have gotten lost in the mix. i wanna see this answer...

 

[Rubyiris]

So after reviewing most of my matches, I've come to the conclusion that almost every time I'm hit is directly as a result as flubbed technical skill.

Standing laser? Get hit.
Missed a wavedash? Get hit/suicide.
Missed an l-cancel vs shield? lose a stock.
Did a uair instead of grab/usmash? get hit.

Other examples:

I roll/spot dodge alot. Not on purpose. Almost all of these are failed OOS options like WD, Shine, and aerials.
I do alot of random full hops with sheik/marth. these are failed wavedashes usually.
I'll do alot of dash attacks with falco/fox. this is because my thumb froze up and didnt push Y.
I'll illusion to my death or accidentally illusion stall. This is because my thumb froze up and didnt push Y.

I never, ever, EVER l-cancel vs shield, and I've been playing since 2005.

I'll fail to dash after a uthrow with fox and do a standing usmash/uair and miss.

The annoying thing is that I can do all of this like 90% consistently on my own, but when it comes to a match, friendly or not, my technical skill eats **** and dies.

The even more annoying thing, and probably the whole point of posting this, and going over half a years worth of matches over the past two days is that I feel that almost every mistake I make, and almost every time im punished is directly related to missed execution on basic things.

Some examples that were really noticable for me: I'm CG/Tech chasing with Marth. I have amazing reads and reaction to their DI/Techs. They decide to fall on the floor. I start to DD and watch what they do, because im assuming they're going to get up/roll if i attempt to hit him. I notice him roll. ill dash the completely opposite direction, like across the map.

Another example with marth: I go to pivot > grab. i dash across the stage.

Go for pivor fsmash: dash attack 3 times AWAY from him.*

As falco: I have maybe 30% damage. I have complete control of the game. I do a standing laser because my thumb froze and get death comboed.

Mid-combo. I go for dair > shine then airdodge.

Mid-combo for fox. I'm at negligable percent. I drill > shine > airdodge then lose my stock due to being death comboed.

I'm tech chasing. i flub a wd with marth and he gets away.

the list goes on and on. i feel like im undermining my metal game when it comes to smash. I do have habits. Most of which I've broken, or I'm in the process of. I have a habit of comitting to only a certain few approaches, mainly because they are the best/only options for the scenario I'm in.

tl;dr:

My technical skill sucks, and I feel that if I was more consistent, my skill as a player would improve monumentally.

Also anyone who says my technical skill is good/fine is bad and should reevaluate themselves as a player. Hell, I'll even post videos and point out all the different basic things I flubbed and how they're usually the direct cause of stock losses.

Also I'm not undermining the skill of the players I'm with. I'm not saying that if I was technically consistent I'd be amazing/perfect, nor am I undermining any reads they make on me or any mistakes and habits I make OUTSIDE of technical blunders.

 

[Mogwai]

How do I deal with Ganon's reverse u-air?

Sweetspotted phantasm and firebird still get hit by tipmans and since I can't tech them I get dropzone ***** afterwards before I can do anything.

When you get cornered, what do you like to do in order to regain center stage?

Just play the matchup and lot and try ****. You'll figure out how to get around it. Basically, you just need to learn which recovery of yours he's aiming for and do not that one. The broader issue is to not get knocked off by Ganon cause he's a terrible character and you should be spending the entire match comboing him on stage rather than getting knocked off stage.

Do you have any tips for the falco vs sheik matchup?

PP and I have started a matchup thread here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260699

I'll do my sheik section on Sunday since people seem to be asking about it a lot.

So after reviewing most of my matches, I've come to the conclusion that almost every time I'm hit is directly as a result as flubbed technical skill.

Standing laser? Get hit.
Missed a wavedash? Get hit/suicide.
Missed an l-cancel vs shield? lose a stock.
Did a uair instead of grab/usmash? get hit.

Other examples:

I roll/spot dodge alot. Not on purpose. Almost all of these are failed OOS options like WD, Shine, and aerials.
I do alot of random full hops with sheik/marth. these are failed wavedashes usually.
I'll do alot of dash attacks with falco/fox. this is because my thumb froze up and didnt push Y.
I'll illusion to my death or accidentally illusion stall. This is because my thumb froze up and didnt push Y.

I never, ever, EVER l-cancel vs shield, and I've been playing since 2005.

I'll fail to dash after a uthrow with fox and do a standing usmash/uair and miss.

The annoying thing is that I can do all of this like 90% consistently on my own, but when it comes to a match, friendly or not, my technical skill eats **** and dies.

The even more annoying thing, and probably the whole point of posting this, and going over half a years worth of matches over the past two days is that I feel that almost every mistake I make, and almost every time im punished is directly related to missed execution on basic things.

Some examples that were really noticable for me: I'm CG/Tech chasing with Marth. I have amazing reads and reaction to their DI/Techs. They decide to fall on the floor. I start to DD and watch what they do, because im assuming they're going to get up/roll if i attempt to hit him. I notice him roll. ill dash the completely opposite direction, like across the map.

Another example with marth: I go to pivot > grab. i dash across the stage.

Go for pivor fsmash: dash attack 3 times AWAY from him.*

As falco: I have maybe 30% damage. I have complete control of the game. I do a standing laser because my thumb froze and get death comboed.

Mid-combo. I go for dair > shine then airdodge.

Mid-combo for fox. I'm at negligable percent. I drill > shine > airdodge then lose my stock due to being death comboed.

I'm tech chasing. i flub a wd with marth and he gets away.

the list goes on and on. i feel like im undermining my metal game when it comes to smash. I do have habits. Most of which I've broken, or I'm in the process of. I have a habit of comitting to only a certain few approaches, mainly because they are the best/only options for the scenario I'm in.

tl;dr:

My technical skill sucks, and I feel that if I was more consistent, my skill as a player would improve monumentally.

Also anyone who says my technical skill is good/fine is bad and should reevaluate themselves as a player. Hell, I'll even post videos and point out all the different basic things I flubbed and how they're usually the direct cause of stock losses.

Also I'm not undermining the skill of the players I'm with. I'm not saying that if I was technically consistent I'd be amazing/perfect, nor am I undermining any reads they make on me or any mistakes and habits I make OUTSIDE of technical blunders.

ok great, what are you looking for? There's no magic cure to you ****ing your tech skill up. You either learn to deal with it and do less technical **** or you get over it and stop ****ing up. I dunno why I bothered to read that whole rant, but I assumed that somewhere in there, you'd have a constructive plea for advice, but instead it's just you whining.

this is an advice thread, so if you want my advice, here it is:

change your negative, awful mindset. you're beating yourself up rather than constructively trying to fix your mistakes. stop whining and assuming that your technical difficulties are coming from nowhere and instead look at what's making you **** up and learn to fix it.

if you're not looking for advice and instead just wanted to complain, I suggest using the User Blogs section.

 

[-ACE-]

Mogwai with the real talk

 

[Charlesz]

How do you escape from the IC grab thing. THe Ic d throws and nana d airs and you go back and forth.

 

[Mogwai]

Do these three things at once:

Hold your control stick down and away (for di)
Hold down your l button (to shield)
Hold your c-stick away (to asdi the dair and buffer roll on the first frame of shielding)

 

[Charlesz]

Thanks Mogwai, Ill definetly keep that in mind. And do you know how to full hop double laser? I see chops to it a lot. He basically full hops and shoots one laser and the maximum hight of his jump and 1 laser during the height of a SHL. I try to do it but I keep shooting three lasers instead. Thanks.

 

[Rubyiris]

Just play the matchup and lot and try ****. You'll figure out how to get around it. Basically, you just need to learn which recovery of yours he's aiming for and do not that one. The broader issue is to not get knocked off by Ganon cause he's a terrible character and you should be spending the entire match comboing him on stage rather than getting knocked off stage.



PP and I have started a matchup thread here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260699

I'll do my sheik section on Sunday since people seem to be asking about it a lot.



ok great, what are you looking for? There's no magic cure to you ****ing your tech skill up. You either learn to deal with it and do less technical **** or you get over it and stop ****ing up. I dunno why I bothered to read that whole rant, but I assumed that somewhere in there, you'd have a constructive plea for advice, but instead it's just you whining.

this is an advice thread, so if you want my advice, here it is:

change your negative, awful mindset. you're beating yourself up rather than constructively trying to fix your mistakes. stop whining and assuming that your technical difficulties are coming from nowhere and instead look at what's making you **** up and learn to fix it.

if you're not looking for advice and instead just wanted to complain, I suggest using the User Blogs section.

Wrong .

Furthermore having a positive or negative attitude doesn't do a **** thing when it comes to improvement.If it did, I'd be sooooo much better than I am now, but I'm not.

 

[Mogwai]

Thanks Mogwai, Ill definetly keep that in mind. And do you know how to full hop double laser? I see chops to it a lot. He basically full hops and shoots one laser and the maximum hight of his jump and 1 laser during the height of a SHL. I try to do it but I keep shooting three lasers instead. Thanks.

read the first post of my thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781

ruby, I give up, maybe PP will be more sympathetic towards you.

 

[pockyD]

Wrong .

Furthermore having a positive or negative attitude doesn't do a **** thing when it comes to improvement.If it did, I'd be sooooo much better than I am now, but I'm not.

...because you have an obviously ragingly negative attitude

and it's less about "positive" or "negative" and more about playing to learn

tech skill is the easiest thing to develop since you can practice alone. no johns

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wrong .

Furthermore having a positive or negative attitude doesn't do a **** thing when it comes to improvement.If it did, I'd be sooooo much better than I am now, but I'm not.

“Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right.” -Henry Ford

Attitude makes a HUGE difference, especially when you're trying to do something that is all up to you and nobody else, like learning.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Do you feel pressured when playing in a match, Ruby? If so, then you need to find a way to relieve this pressure so you can be consistent with your tech.

I guess I need to see your response to know where to go from there.


Thanks for holding down the thread, Mogwai. <3

 

[Igcoris]

I have a few Peach facts that I'm not too clear about and want to know for sure.

Does utilt beat peach's float canceled fairs when she's doing that float thing about your lasers?
Can peach CC falco's dair and dsmash you out of it?
If, by chance, I get float canceled fair'd by peach, am I able to shine oos or roll safely? (given that i shielded her fair)
Can I short hop over Peach's getup attack while i'm right next to her and dair her out of it?

Completely relooking everything I know about Falco ever since PP ***** so hard. Thanks in advance.

 

[unknown522]

I know this is off topic, but I saw forward and PP talking about teams. Falco in teams is sex. I do it a lot with Raynex. Laser control and combo setups are amazing. Shooting over fox's head to hit the taller opponents is so disrupting and can allow fox to possibly get grabs easier on them. Shine -> fox moves is always great, and can get random kill setups as well, when the opponents are at high percent. Falco's d-air is amazing with quick kills, finishing edgeguards, and trapping opponents in their tech position. It's so easy to cover all their options in teams. Random f-smash kills in the chaos. Also, his recovery is improved more in teams with so many distractions and can lead into random combos.

But getting shine-spiked by your teammate is a *****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZVL47MNrpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Qi5AzBooM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoeNRX8TWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=150OLUB0S8g

 

[Mogwai]

Does utilt beat peach's float canceled fairs when she's doing that float thing about your lasers?

if the peach is smart and waits to fall until after her fair's hitbox is already out, no, her fair outranges your utilt and you get crown smashed.

Can peach CC falco's dair and dsmash you out of it?

At low %s, Peach can CC the weak hit of your dair and dsmash you. She can CC the strong hit, but it puts her into the recoil animation on the ground, which you can usually see and link into dtilt well before she can dsmash.

If Peach is CC dsmashing your dair approaches a lot, you need to wait longer to start your dair so that you're sure to hit with the strong hitbox.

If, by chance, I get float canceled fair'd by peach, am I able to shine oos or roll safely? (given that i shielded her fair)

Peach's shield pressure is broken because of float cancelling. if she float cancels a fair on your shield, she has a significant frame advantage, so I usually just buffer roll away since it's the fastest option that doesn't get *** ***** by dsmash (spot dodge).

Can I short hop over Peach's getup attack while i'm right next to her and dair her out of it?

I don't understand this question.

 

[Igcoris]

if the peach is smart and waits to fall until after her fair's hitbox is already out, no, her fair outranges your utilt and you get crown smashed.

what if i shot a laser and moved forward at the same time (therefore moving under her) and utilted? would that prove to be a better movement spot and give me more options?

I don't understand this question.

what i meant by this was: say you dair'd the peach and the peach didn't tech and hit the floor. she's lying there, and as you proceed to short hop, she getup attacks. will falco's short hop go over peach's getup attack and give you a free dair/nair/whatever aerial?

 

[Rubyiris]

read the first post of my thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781

ruby, I give up, maybe PP will be more sympathetic towards you.

You never even attempted to help me outside of ONE time like over a month ago, which was critique on matches that were SEVERAL MONTHS OLD.

Whats to give up if you never even attempted to help?

 

[Rubyiris]

Do you feel pressured when playing in a match, Ruby? If so, then you need to find a way to relieve this pressure so you can be consistent with your tech.

I guess I need to see your response to know where to go from there.


Thanks for holding down the thread, Mogwai. <3

I've been trying to figure out how to relieve stress while playing since 2007 and I haven't found a single answer. I play infinitely better in friendlies, and I'm still the worst Falco main ever.

I've been practicing technical skill on and off, doing everything conceivable, and it just doesn't help. Just because I have near-flawless technical skill on my own doesn't mean it's transferable to an actual game.

Also anyone who says attitude, mindset, etc has anything to do with improvement doesn't know what they're talking about. Or maybe I'm just a special case. Being positive has, and will never help me. I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. And when I come for help I'm given bad advice or ignored entirely.

 

[Moooose]

dood you come off as a dbag just fyi

 

[Rubyiris]

dood you come off as a dbag just fyi

I don't care. Mogwai can choke on a dick.

 

[DaisyBoo92]

ruby just quit melee, you're not realistic at all and dumb as hell or a really good troll

 

[Ryan-K]

yes being positive DOES do alot. when you dont care about the result of the match you do so much better. you're stressing yourself out for no reason. i got alot better when i took like a 6 month break LOL. and by break i mean i didnt even have a cube or a wii or anything.

if you're trying to relieve stress you're doing it wrong you just need to have fun with the game. i think experimenting with other characters is the best way to get yourself more into the game.

stop giving a **** about mango/mogwai/drPP/how your falco plays compared to theirs/what seed you gonna get in tourney/how much money you can win/what option is best in this matchup so on so forth etc etc. just play man. ive played DA wes in tourney like 8 times first or second round in tourney back in the day and lost each time. ive played dj nintendo at least 4 or 5 times in tourney and lost to like his bowser and ****. dude who taught me how to play ***** me with pichu several times and he didnt even use him. pc chris beat me with pikachu. scar beat my fox .

everyone has high points and low points the problem is you aren't just having fun. i forget where i heard it but you honestly do get alot more out of video games the less you play them. look at smash as more of a hobby not as a necessity to live. look at my videos of me getting ***** by like vanz and teczeros sheik and all. i got ***** and in one match i got unlucky and had to wait another 20 minutes for another match because of it but who cares. i dont even like keep up with all the new tactics and **** but im so comfortable with how i play and im confident enough with it to never change it. if you aren't comfortable with fancy **** then don't do it. **** i can't even moonwalk with CF and i dont really care enough to practice it because i have enough fun with how i play. if you don't want to buck up and stop kicking and crying over dumb **** like "oh i cant waveshine" then just practice or just play however comes natural to you. i've been playing this game for like 4 years and ive made more money in the 8 months of brawl i played than the 4 years amount of time i've been playing melee. if it was about winning or being fancy i would've quit mad long ago. mad people in tristate still don't know me

tl;dr stop trying so hard because trying implies failure. just play the game and it all becomes natural and ****

sorry for long *** rant tho ^_^;

 

[Rubyiris]

ruby just quit melee, you're not realistic at all and dumb as hell or a really good troll

I have no reason to quit something I enjoy, even if it does frustrate me occasionally.

You can choke on one too, trashkid.

 

[Rubyiris]

yes being positive DOES do alot. when you dont care about the result of the match you do so much better. you're stressing yourself out for no reason. i got alot better when i took like a 6 month break LOL. and by break i mean i didnt even have a cube or a wii or anything.

if you're trying to relieve stress you're doing it wrong you just need to have fun with the game. i think experimenting with other characters is the best way to get yourself more into the game.

stop giving a **** about mango/mogwai/drPP/how your falco plays compared to theirs/what seed you gonna get in tourney/how much money you can win/what option is best in this matchup so on so forth etc etc. just play man. ive played DA wes in tourney like 8 times first or second round in tourney back in the day and lost each time. ive played dj nintendo at least 4 or 5 times in tourney and lost to like his bowser and ****. dude who taught me how to play ***** me with pichu several times and he didnt even use him. pc chris beat me with pikachu. scar beat my fox .

everyone has high points and low points the problem is you aren't just having fun. i forget where i heard it but you honestly do get alot more out of video games the less you play them. look at smash as more of a hobby not as a necessity to live. look at my videos of me getting ***** by like vanz and teczeros sheik and all. i got ***** and in one match i got unlucky and had to wait another 20 minutes for another match because of it but who cares. i dont even like keep up with all the new tactics and **** but im so comfortable with how i play and im confident enough with it to never change it. if you aren't comfortable with fancy **** then don't do it. **** i can't even moonwalk with CF and i dont really care enough to practice it because i have enough fun with how i play. if you don't want to buck up and stop kicking and crying over dumb **** like "oh i cant waveshine" then just practice or just play however comes natural to you. i've been playing this game for like 4 years and ive made more money in the 8 months of brawl i played than the 4 years amount of time i've been playing melee. if it was about winning or being fancy i would've quit mad long ago. mad people in tristate still don't know me

tl;dr stop trying so hard because trying implies failure. just play the game and it all becomes natural and ****

sorry for long *** rant tho ^_^;

I'm not you. Being positive doesn't help me improve at all. Just makes sucking **** at the game I enjoy less unbearable.

 

[JBM falcon08]

+rep to ryan.

if this was 05 still lol.

good post though.

 

[DaisyBoo92]

I have no reason to quit something I enjoy, even if it does frustrate me occasionally.

You can choke on one too, trashkid.

you enjoy getting your *** ***** cause you suck so bad? maybe you should take that **** and sit on it

 

[Ryan-K]

wow way to make me feel like an ******* for being totally honest with you. you aren't being positive. you're shooting yourself down because "being positive" sounds like it takes a long time and you want like a magic pill or something that can make you laser like pp and shine like shiz. everyone tried to help you and you're just being emo for the attention or until someone can tell you how they learned to doubleshine from like asking lambchops what way he does it and ****. notice how everyone has their own way of doing things yet the game has all the actions do it the exact same way? you don't want to learn how to get good. you aren't having fun. you just want to "get good quick" like a **** enlargement email or some nonsense. you just hopeless on purpose guy lol

 

[forward]

Xander you should just stop asking for advice if absolutely no one is ever capable of helping you ever.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Honestly if you don't believe in yourself to perform it, your wasting your time.

Mindset is EVERYTHING!!!

forward is exactly right though.

Be open minded. It really seems like you are closing your mind and just being satisfied by your own opinion which is clearly wrong. try to actually enjoy the game rather than looking at it as a profession. you can get good at things by having fun just as much as being very serious, in some cases more than others but that is another thing.

hope i didn't waste my time.