• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,560
this is like 10 pages late, but no, i meant that staling doesnt effect the shieldstun, since it uses the base damage of the move

i dont have any backing except that sypherpheonix said it and hes never been wrong about anything technical...

just test it, it shouldnt me that hard, i would, but im lazy and trust him... although now thinking about, i do feel like ur right... maybe i misuderstood what he was saying
shieldstun formula uses staled damage
hitting a shield does not stale a move, however.

You can't airdodge out of tumble and your aerial mobility is different I think(not sure if higher or lower horizontally).
only the first is true
 

flaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Rochester, NY
Newb here. Multiple Sheiks I've played like to avoid lasers by full hopping and charging needle to cover approaches, then safely land behind the shower of needles. It looks really obviously bad on FD especially, yet still I find it catching me out a lot. Any thoughts?
 

red stone

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
889
Location
Nashville, Tennessee
Newb here. Multiple Shieks I've played like to avoid lasers by full hopping and charging needle to cover approaches, then safely land behind the shower of needles. It looks really obviously bad on FD especially, yet still I find it catching me out a lot. Any thoughts?
run forward under the needles, then punish. then mix it up by going above every now and then and punish with an aerial.

if you roll backwards, sheik might catch you on the roll and get a throw. same with rolling forwards. The longer you stay in the air, the more likely you are to get caught by them. I would say stay grounded somewhat longer than normal if you know then have a full charge.
 

flaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Rochester, NY
More specifically, sheik is throwing the needles before reaching the ground so she gets the angled needles and autocanceled landing. Getting under works great, yeah, utilt as she falls or uair as she is rising, but I find it's when I try to get under that I get hit by the needles. I've tried full or double-jumping over them but it's tough to pull off unless I hard read it. Maybe this works though and I'm doing it wrong.

The most success I've had is just lasering them as they fall or predicting it and djdl, though if my laser is canceled by the needle or I'm too far away Sheik just jumps again. Am I giving Sheik too much space? I'm sorta playing like I would play a campy marth and trying to bait stuff like ftilts with dd -> laser -> dd etc
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
No you will run into sheiks that use that strategy now and then. In order to beat it you have to understand it.

Sheik has to charge needles in order for them to lead to anything. If he is doing fullhop with a falling needle, you can sh over the needle angle and nair/dair before he can shield.

A bit more annoying is sh needles on a platform. Because of how quick it is, it can be hard to get under him and because he's on the platform its hard to quickly approach him. You can find the timing between the needles and go below him, or you can take the top platform and pressure. Fullhopping to the top platform at the correct timing will force sheik to shield or run due to the threat of your sh dair. You're now in the advantage and have the ability to chase and lock down.

:phone:
 

flaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Rochester, NY
Ok so it is possible to sh nair over it, I just have to find the timing/spacing. cool

Yeah the run off platform needles are annoying, too, but I haven't played a shiek fast enough to beat my sh uair at the edge before needles come out. When I do, I'll keep your top platform idea in mind, thanks :)
 

ruhtraeel

Smash Ace
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
707
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
how do I get better at the defensive and to a certain extent the neutral position

I've been trying not to rely on lasers as much and trying to space DD's

but whenever I get put on defence I just start messing up techs, DI's tech skill in general etc, and also I do stupid stuff like jump into a Ganon jab near the edge of the screen
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
ganon jabs are hard to miss sometimes.

it's very fun when falco smacks into the brick wall.

it mostly happens when falco tries to reset or force a situation with an approaching laser that he doesn't have space for.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Not approaching means you are near the ledge, which means you just get zoned harder. You'll land a few lasers while he works his way over to you, but then they'll just poke you with a single ftilt/uair and you're dead. The only way I can play the matchup is to keep Ganon in hitstun or off stage all game (luckily, this is a pretty viable strategy). :awesome:
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Maybe that would work well if you have them trapped at the ledge so you can simply anticipate their limited options, but if you're both in a truly neutral position, you can't really stop anything Ganon does. You have to avoid it. If he uses fair/uair/ftilt/jab, a trade is almost always going to be extremely beneficial to him, and shielding is usually horrible vs. those options as well (especially fair). Other than that, there's no way to just outright beat the moves unless you are going to hit him before they come out, but at that point you're not playing defensively anymore.
 

Xyzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
2,170
Location
Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
Can't you laser pretty much everything he tries to put towards you (if in doubt doing a reverse one out of a dash jump), and then reclaim the bit you've given up, because well, there's a laser in it? :D

I've always felt that lots of lasers shut down Ganon really hard, because he's pretty slow and doesn't have a great way to get over them (and I really like him being above me, when playing Falco :D)
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,476
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
Can't you laser pretty much everything he tries to put towards you (if in doubt doing a reverse one out of a dash jump), and then reclaim the bit you've given up, because well, there's a laser in it? :D

I've always felt that lots of lasers shut down Ganon really hard, because he's pretty slow and doesn't have a great way to get over them (and I really like him being above me, when playing Falco :D)
Platforms can be very useful for Ganon in those situations.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Falco can be defensive while keeping stage. He makes Ganon jump(onto a platform) to avoid lasers so he can keep the middle. Works similarly vs most characters.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
It only requires a little more patience than Falco's other matchups because of the lengths Ganon will go to when avoiding you. Just remember he wants you to be impatient and the extra second or two it takes to get a hit/commitment on him is not a big deal.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
I just hate it when a character can slow down the pace of the match. But yea I guess I can deal with it .

Edit: The same concept applies to peach. I don't like how some characters only need one read to gain an upper hand in a stock.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
you can only laser so long before we hit you with a fair.

and by so long, i really mean forever because wtf ganon's *** huehuehuehuehue

but yeah just don't get hit cuz u don't really have to. but running away forever won't really work either.
 

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
Do Ganons regularly jab/ftilt Falcos out of laser approaches? I just feel like that would be a hilarious thing to do against bad (or in this case high) laser approaches but idk how practical it is.

Chival just learn from Wenbo on how to do relentless approaches or something :laugh:
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
As marth i started eating laser -> fsmash to make falcos think twice about laser->dair approaches. A few ganons I know will eat laser -> ftilt/jab, but its not that good; i just laser a handful of times in place if they start doing it.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Nah, fsmash is actually fairly good. If they laser instead, you're just gonna eat that laser and thus not have the lag. Obviously if you're too obvious about it they will just laser->wait->whatever, but if you choose to not fsmash and they do that your goal is accomplished anyways (ei, make them think twice before following the laser with a sh nair/dair approach).

Why I definitely prefer fsmash over utilt is the range. Plus tipped fsmash kills falco at 0%.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
7,443
Location
Greensboro, NC
imagining tipped fsmash on falcos who like to land from laser into dash dance makes me chuckle. they think they're baiting the utilt when really they're catching a tipper right to the back of the neck.

glorious.
 

stabbedbyanipple

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Irvine, SoCal
This weekend I learned that there are a few subtleties to DI-ing in falco dittos that I never noticed until Wes pointed them out to me. This makes me question whether there are many more subtle DI tricks that I've been missing out on. Idk how I'm supposed to notice these tiny little things lol
 
Top Bottom