I can always come down to MD/VA if you don't feel satisfied with their anti-ganon game.holy **** i need to go to md/va and show these guys how i function.
KEVIN LETS GO THEY CAN'T FIGHT GANON
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I can always come down to MD/VA if you don't feel satisfied with their anti-ganon game.holy **** i need to go to md/va and show these guys how i function.
KEVIN LETS GO THEY CAN'T FIGHT GANON
pretty much how i feel.I can always come down to MD/VA if you don't feel satisfied with their anti-ganon game.
What are some of these subtleties?This weekend I learned that there are a few subtleties to DI-ing in falco dittos that I never noticed until Wes pointed them out to me. This makes me question whether there are many more subtle DI tricks that I've been missing out on. Idk how I'm supposed to notice these tiny little things lol
What he described to me was mostly getting out of the low percent dair shine combos that lead into really painful stuff.What are some of these subtleties?
The fact that you're posting this in a Falco thread is hilarious.I just hate it when a character can slow down the pace of the match.
No, because matches with falco tend to take as long as the falco wants it to take.Yeah, because matches with Falco always take forever.
I don't see how. Slow-playing Falco just doesn't work imo. There are times he needs to be patient and times where it can benefit to hang back, but it's always like a split second, and then he's back in the fray. He sucks at playing keep away with pretty much everyone.No, because matches with falco tend to take as long as the falco wants it to take.
I just think Falco sucks in neutral. I think the only reason anyone would disagree with this is because of lasers, but I wouldn't even consider most situations with lasers out as neutral. It's more like matches with Falco constantly swap between in Falco's favor (when the laser is out), and in the opponent's favor (beginning right as Falco lands and continuing through the SH of the next laser). Lasers help him put the opponent on the defensive so he can abuse his good offense, but his defense is significantly worse. He can't abuse DD/pivot grab like most of the top tiers (the number of cheese kills you see Fox/Marth/Falcon/Sheik players getting off of simple DD grab setups is ridiculous, even at top level with pro spacing). His CC isn't too great because he's not that heavy and falls over easily. Arguably most important, he is combo food with a ****ty recovery once he loses his DJ.better player certainly sets the pace.
i guess i'm just of the opinion that falco can retreat and be safe as well as almost anyone in the cast. i guess that's not true in other people's eyes.
edit: bones i just don't see what FORCES you to get "back in the fray" other than people running at you i guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA2s7ze0pjM&feature=player_detailpage#t=492sanyway, camping under a platform and abusing FH(aka Dair) would make Falco pretty hard to get in on, especially combined with solid anti approaches like Ftilt and Bair. mastering bthrow gimps could also be pretty handy there.
You ever retreated with a Bair of some kind into Uptilt? That junk hits almost every character in the game lol and if it doesn't work then laser instead. Retreating isn't impossible, and you neglect the FH.I just think Falco sucks in neutral. I think the only reason anyone would disagree with this is because of lasers, but I wouldn't even consider most situations with lasers out as neutral. It's more like matches with Falco constantly swap between in Falco's favor (when the laser is out), and in the opponent's favor (beginning right as Falco lands and continuing through the SH of the next laser). Lasers help him put the opponent on the defensive so he can abuse his good offense, but his defense is significantly worse. He can't abuse DD/pivot grab like most of the top tiers (the number of cheese kills you see Fox/Marth/Falcon/Sheik players getting off of simple DD grab setups is ridiculous, even at top level with pro spacing). His CC isn't too great because he's not that heavy and falls over easily. Arguably most important, he is combo food with a ****ty recovery once he loses his DJ.
And yes, Falco can laser while running away, but he's too slow to do it like Fox can. Running away and lasering as Fox works because of his speed. He can prolong neutral and get a bit of extra %, and then when he feels like he's pushing his luck he can go for an approach. He can be much more picking because he can run circles around most characters. Pretty much everyone except Ganon and Peach can just steamroll over Falco if he just continues to RSHL away from them. Peach can just float and/or pull a turnip. Ganon is slower so he has to just close down the gap, but it doesn't take long since all of his moves trap Falco really well at the ledge, and worst case scenario is he takes a few % from lasers that are impossible to capitalize on. It's very rare to see Falco players RSHL, and then dash back in with a successful approach. Most of the time it does happen is because the opponent panicked, held shield, and got grabbed.
So basically running away as Falco is high risk, low reward, which is why he has to constantly be engaging the opponent directly. I also think that's why he's as uncommon as he is at the top level despite having such a large player base. He requires constant approaching, but it's hard to do it consistently, and once he does make a mistake, he pays for it hard. Out of the top Falco players, we have Mango who is known for shield pressure and never getting grabbed, and PP who is known for controlling the center so he never has to fight from a defensive position. Once he gets in, he just systematically prevents his opponent from regaining neutral so he doesn't have to do another cold approach. This is another thing that's really hard at anything below top level. One of the key differences between matches of mid-level players compared to top-level players is the number of times neutral is reestablished. If you have two bad players, they're constantly losing momentum, dropping combos, and letting their opponent recover. At the top level this becomes less and less common.
This is all based on my own experience and what I notice in matches with Mango and PP, so maybe I'm just pulling too many conclusions as a result of my own unrefined play style.
You ever watch Chops vs IHSB? Another very good example of this style of play!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA2s7ze0pjM&feature=player_detailpage#t=492s
Chops kinda uses some of that strategy here to mixed results, just doesn't take very good advantage of some of his opportunities. Still kinda interesting as from the video it looks like it could be a viable strategy if maybe refined a bit more.
that's cuz he's the BEST character, and his metagame can keep evolving because your moves all combo into each other and risk/reward ratios for most top level strategies are guessing games in falco's favorFalco has more rep at the top than any other character....that's why everyone hates him LMAO. His metagame got pushed farther than everyone else's and catching up is a pain.
Let's talk about this. Is there a guaranteed way to kill spacies with bthrow? I usually mixup between angled ftilt, (shine) Dj dair, sh dair and just waiting for the illusion/upB and responding to that. A long time ago DEHF told me spacies should die off of bthrow every time but I don't see how. What are some other good options after bthrow against other characters?mastering bthrow gimps could also be pretty handy there.
I was gonna make a post of some of my throw shenanigans but then I realized they're almost all off Fthrow lolLet's talk about this. Is there a guaranteed way to kill spacies with bthrow? I usually mixup between angled ftilt, (shine) Dj dair, sh dair and just waiting for the illusion/upB and responding to that. A long time ago DEHF told me spacies should die off of bthrow every time but I don't see how. What are some other good options after bthrow against other characters?
That pretty much proves he's washed up.i got a new shiz video for you guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4QezTEtsd4&feature=player_embedded
quoting this to let you know I am not necessarily ignoring you so much as avoiding what I feel will be unproductive discussionthat's cuz he's the BEST character, and his metagame can keep evolving because your moves all combo into each other and risk/reward ratios for most top level strategies are guessing games in falco's favor
agreed, at least in part. many falcos will camp there until they feel safe or hit confirm a laser.A lot of people camp under platforms. A lot of them don't realize and have this delusion of being aggressive.
Edit: also black chris knows what's up
Hardly anything in Melee is guaranteed.Let's talk about this. Is there a guaranteed way to kill spacies with bthrow? I usually mixup between angled ftilt, (shine) Dj dair, sh dair and just waiting for the illusion/upB and responding to that. A long time ago DEHF told me spacies should die off of bthrow every time but I don't see how. What are some other good options after bthrow against other characters?
thank goodness I got out before it startedi got a new shiz video for you guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4QezTEtsd4&feature=player_embedded
The future... is here.What he described to me was mostly getting out of the low percent dair shine combos that lead into really painful stuff.
At low percent you jump into the dair approach and then you get Daired into the ground and can shine before they can shine. I think zhu showed me this a long time ago but I never thought anyone could do this consistently until I realized Wes does like every time lol
Also you DI up on the Dair and once the shine connect you fly too high for another dair and they have to follow up with something sub-optimal. Actually, that's what he Falcons should do, I forget if that's what Falco should do. You might want to DI away on the Dair, it was a couple days ago haha
Uptilt/dash away Bair/RSHL the FH Fox Nair. Low percent you can CC shine it.what do i do when someone is in the air and in front of me. if the are above/behind its easy mode but like fox full hop nairs are gay.
Or like stab said, jump into the nair and shine if you're low % or if you get hit by the weak part.Uptilt/dash away Bair/RSHL the FH Fox Nair. Low percent you can CC shine it.
i got a new shiz video for you guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4QezTEtsd4&feature=player_embedded
I should abuse weak hitboxes more, but I don't think Falco can do that very well past 30-40%ish.Or like stab said, jump into the nair and shine if you're low % or if you get hit by the weak part.
The fuuuuuuuuuutureee