PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

I dunno I always mean to experiment with this stuff more and just never do. I'll put it on the list and try it out with some guys I'm training.

well, better start chartin out my recovery options...i'll need em all...

 

[Van.]

That pretty much proves he's washed up.

Please stop. You are doing the community a tremendous disservice by implying that no one can be both good at this game and stacking paper to the ceiling/riding on 24 inch chrome. if you are convinced that one can't be good at melee without also sucking at life, then I can feel sorry for you, but you need to keep your self-hatred to yourself. (totally serious)

edit: also if would have been funnier i was like new match ft. shiz and had some scrub falco playing with one of shizs songs in the background darn missed oppurtunity

 

[Mogwai]

Please stop. You are doing the community a tremendous disservice by implying that no one can be both good at this game and stacking paper to the ceiling/riding on 24 inch chrome. if you are convinced that one can't be good at melee without also sucking at life, then I can feel sorry for you, but you need to keep your self-hatred to yourself. (totally serious)

edit: also if would have been funnier i was like new match ft. shiz and had some scrub falco playing with one of shizs songs in the background darn missed oppurtunity

... i think he was making a pun about the fact that the video says it's right after a shower...

 

[Van.]

^ LOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL i didn't notice that at all... Bones0 never fails to impress, everytime i think i've found a blemish on his record of outstanding posts it turns out he was just being too awesome to comprehend

i'm so dumb

<3 bones

my post will remain uneditied as a monument to bones0s cerebrality

 

[Bones0]

I was worried no one would notice that. It happens to me more often than you'd think...

 

[Wenbobular]

I was about to rag on Bones but I figured it best to watch the video first ...

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

please stop. You are doing the community a tremendous disservice by implying that no one can be both good at this game and stacking paper to the ceiling/riding on 24 inch chrome.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoOOL

 

[DTR]

i dont understand the falco vs falco laser game. either one shoots the other and he cant shoot any or the shoot each other and both do nothing. its boring and stupid. how should you laser/deal with lasers in the match up?

 

[Deleted member]

how do you beat the **** out of a homo *** fox without playing like a ***** yourself

 

[Strong Badam]

i dont understand the falco vs falco laser game. either one shoots the other and he cant shoot any or the shoot each other and both do nothing. its boring and stupid. how should you laser/deal with lasers in the match up?

now you know how it feels to fight this ****ing stupid *** ****ing gay ****ing character FALCO

except you can do the exact same thing to him

 

[Divinokage]

how do you beat the **** out of a homo *** fox without playing like a ***** yourself

You get close to him and call his shots, mind read that *****! Sure you may have to wait or stagger attacks but you can definitely use your own hitboxes to counter his.

 

[Dr Peepee]

i dont understand the falco vs falco laser game. either one shoots the other and he cant shoot any or the shoot each other and both do nothing. its boring and stupid. how should you laser/deal with lasers in the match up?

Learn to powershield after lasering for that second example or you can just dodge the laser by going high instead of shooting.

If one has laser control, then the other must find a way to get the first to stop shooting. This can be done with movement to alter laser spacing, threatening with Bairs, getting on a platform/FHs, or SDI'ing/powershielding lasers.

how do you beat the **** out of a homo *** fox without playing like a ***** yourself

I assume he's probably platform camping then. There are a couple ways to beat platform camping but it depends on the stage and %s because of the risk/reward and what knocks Fox over.

Doing double lasers is extremely good. They help set the Fox up to run more and give you a way to move yourself while still controlling their actions somewhat.

Getting above Fox so he can't jump away is pretty good, especially if you can keep stage control for the duration of the FH. You'll be able to lock him down on landing usually.

Using Uair/Bair to hit through platforms in addition to shine waveland can be a great way to keep Fox wanting to move or worried about being above you. He will usually dodge by jumping or running to the side of the platform you won't be covering. Shielding is more for when they're surprised and if you can get them to do it then holding them there is muuuch easier.


If Fox starts dropping more, then start Utilting more when you act like you want to jump, or lasering more if Fox runs off the opposite side of the platform.

The most important thing to do is have a little patience and the hits come quickly.

 

[bolt.]

Does anyone try to shoot a high laser when they're close to an opponent that powershield grabs, duck > downtilt?

 

[Wenbobular]

Why is that better than shooting a low laser and jumping over it

 

[Dr Peepee]

Could be better for killing and to cover their jump option as well, especially if you just tried the anti-PS option you mentioned.

I don't like shooting higher SHLs personally because the tall characters usually have dumb ways of ducking that stuff(except maybe Ganon, but lol Ganon). If you can catch a taller character off-guard or in a habit of PS'ing though, then yeah this is cool.

 

[bolt.]

Why is that better than shooting a low laser and jumping over it

There isn't enough time to jump if you're really close to the other character and you shoot a low laser.

You can shoot lasers at falcos head in dittos and crouch under it so I suppose it wouldn't only work against tall characters. The catching the jump this kinda makes this seem cool too.

in what ways do tall characters beat high lasers?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Could be better for killing and to cover their jump option as well, especially if you just tried the anti-PS option you mentioned.

I don't like shooting higher SHLs personally because the tall characters usually have dumb ways of ducking that stuff(except maybe Ganon, but lol Ganon). If you can catch a taller character off-guard or in a habit of PS'ing though, then yeah this is cool.

...

but yeah lol ganon

 

[Dr Peepee]

There isn't enough time to jump if you're really close to the other character and you shoot a low laser.

You can shoot lasers at falcos head in dittos and crouch under it so I suppose it wouldn't only work against tall characters. The catching the jump this kinda makes this seem cool too.

in what ways do tall characters beat high lasers?

Marth can dash(leans forward) and crouch, Sheik can do the same, Samus can crouch and she doesn't dash much anyway, and I think that's it for relevant characters that are tall.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Does Peach not count as tall? Weird.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

peach probably counts but she's so busy floating and avoiding lasers that way, that shooting at her on the ground isn't common enough for a guy like PP to consider.

 

[bolt.]

Marth can dash(leans forward) and crouch, Sheik can do the same, Samus can crouch and she doesn't dash much anyway, and I think that's it for relevant characters that are tall.

That makes sense. In those situations low laser to jump over seems a lot better until you can close, comfortably.

In dittos if someone reacts to their own powershield by sh lasering, I would assume crouch reverse up tilt would do really well. It would probably catch their jump. I don't know if higher level players would shl out of powershield from close up, but I know some players around my level that do.

 

[Brookman]

im so good at PS lately.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Couple of questions.

1. Where can I find videos of PP vs someone other than Mango in friendlies at IMPULSE (vs Puff and Marth would be nice)
2. When do I jab
3. When I shoot lasers, I tend to go a bit too autopilot, and when I don't shoot lasers, I take away a huge Falco advantage... when should I shoot lasers

 

[Bones0]

1. YouTube, but I doubt there's any of him playing a Puff or Marth...
2. When they won't CC or shield grab it.
3. Just stop losing focus every time you laser and you'll quickly learn when you should and should not be lasering.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Couple of questions.

1. Where can I find videos of PP vs someone other than Mango in friendlies at IMPULSE (vs Puff and Marth would be nice)
2. When do I jab
3. When I shoot lasers, I tend to go a bit too autopilot, and when I don't shoot lasers, I take away a huge Falco advantage... when should I shoot lasers

summonedfist's channel is nice.

2. depends on matchup, but on shield and when you can link to a smash is generally pretty nice.

3. practice lasering in a lot of different ways with different movements and timings so you don't autopilot. then you can think while you laser no matter what

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Man, I forgot how good watching videos of yourself is. I didn't realize how much I suck at edgeguarding in falco dittos lol (and how wack my falco is in general)

 

[Bones0]

I find myself watching my most recent videos 4-5 times a month. lol

 

[ruhtraeel]

summonedfist's channel is nice.

2. depends on matchup, but on shield and when you can link to a smash is generally pretty nice.

3. practice lasering in a lot of different ways with different movements and timings so you don't autopilot. then you can think while you laser no matter what

So I'm guessing jab on a shield to DD into something

I saw a F-tilt to jab on shield vs Mango and I thought about it for a while, and I guess it makes sense cause people can't do something OoS if you space an f-tilt into a jab into whatever

You also seem to shine grab vs spacies, I thought that was a vs Marth thing, does it actually work and what does it turn into

 

[Bl@ckChris]

pp likes to shinegrab on everything cuz it's fun and probably does positioning things that he likes.

 

[Bones0]

I would recommend shine grabbing vs. every character. The trick is when to do it, and I mostly find myself doing it when I know they have a safe OoS option. For instance, if you are mid-stage vs. Marth, he's probably going to just WD OoS after the shine since you need a very precise timing with nair/dair in order to hit his jumpcrouch. So instead of letting him just reset the situation or try to waveshine and chase him down, I'd rather just shinegrab and work off of that. When I have Marth pinned at the ledge, especially when he's at higher %s, I almost never shine grab because I am much more likely to shield poke or hit him as he tries to cross me up to the center of the stage. The safest option he has is to just WD back onto the ledge, which is just a horrible position for him.

That's my general take on when to shine-grab, but I'm curious what other reasons people have for doing it when they do.

 

[unknown522]

Shine grab is great!

 

[Dr Peepee]

So I'm guessing jab on a shield to DD into something

I saw a F-tilt to jab on shield vs Mango and I thought about it for a while, and I guess it makes sense cause people can't do something OoS if you space an f-tilt into a jab into whatever

You also seem to shine grab vs spacies, I thought that was a vs Marth thing, does it actually work and what does it turn into

there's much more than that @ the first one. just get creative!

ftilt to jab because I wanted to wear down his shield from a distance without him being able to possibly counterattack me. Not necessarily the best pressure for a quick conversion but it has longer term benefits potentially.

Shine grab works best vs spacies if you're fast and your shine isn't staled/you have them conditioned to keep shielding. Sometimes it works regardless of conditioning if it's fresh vs Falco I think but I'm not totally sure. Really though, the technique works vs everyone given appropriate mixups and tech skill and turns into grabs, often without DI because they're trying to roll or react to something else or just wait. If you know how to follow up grabs, and without DI sometimes, then this is the same thing more or less.

 

[L__]

shine turnaround jc grab is so good

 

[ruhtraeel]

there's much more than that @ the first one. just get creative!

ftilt to jab because I wanted to wear down his shield from a distance without him being able to possibly counterattack me. Not necessarily the best pressure for a quick conversion but it has longer term benefits potentially.

Shine grab works best vs spacies if you're fast and your shine isn't staled/you have them conditioned to keep shielding. Sometimes it works regardless of conditioning if it's fresh vs Falco I think but I'm not totally sure. Really though, the technique works vs everyone given appropriate mixups and tech skill and turns into grabs, often without DI because they're trying to roll or react to something else or just wait. If you know how to follow up grabs, and without DI sometimes, then this is the same thing more or less.

Out of curiosity, do you shine then decide to grab or WD on reaction, or do you know which one you are going to do before you even do it

Is it even possible to react

 

[Seartu]

I have a question for you guys. My Luigi keeps getting stuck on the ledge and is having trouble dealing with an f-smash happy Falco. Jumping off ledge is no good, Falco is up in my face before I have time to pop something out. Of my other options Wavedashing off ledge, roll, get up attack and LH Aerials all seem to get me punished by f-smash. I could maybe eek out a clank with LH Down-B?

Other then that I suppose I need to try and figure out some mind games that will work in my favor. Any ideas? Or should some of these strategies be working out better and I'm just missing something stupid?

 

[bolt.]

I have a question for you guys. My Luigi keeps getting stuck on the ledge and is having trouble dealing with an f-smash happy Falco. Jumping off ledge is no good, Falco is up in my face before I have time to pop something out. Of my other options Wavedashing off ledge, roll, get up attack and LH Aerials all seem to get me punished by f-smash. I could maybe eek out a clank with LH Down-B?

Other then that I suppose I need to try and figure out some mind games that will work in my favor. Any ideas? Or should some of these strategies be working out better and I'm just missing something stupid?

I don't know much about luigi, but I'll give it a shot.

Try to use your invincibility to attack him, if he f smashes you will be safe and you can punish him. Its really important to get off the edge quick and if the other player is already in good position you can stall by dropping off the edge and regrabbing. Make sure your regrab is as low as possible though because if you go above the edge you're asking for trouble. If you stall for a bit vs a player who is fsmash happy im sure you could bait one out and get a free hit in. A fast ledgedash might work too but I'm not sure if luigi gets enough invincibility to make it viable.

 

[unknown522]

Yeah ledge WD through everything. Or shield and punish him with *insert mover here*

 

[Bones0]

LH back and misfire.

 

[Seartu]

Yeah ledge WD through everything. Or shield and punish him with *insert mover here*

I'll work on my LH WD game, I think it's ok right now, but I'm sure there is room for improvement. As far as shielding, it's tough with Wigi because if he gets hit with just about anything near the ledge while in shield, odds are he's sliding right back onto the ledge.

 

[Wenbobular]

LH back and misfire.

Honestly Fsmash would probably beat that