One frame of asdi will make zero difference in your Di. Don't waste effort.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Correct me if I'm wrong (Strongbad), but ASDI is always 1 frame since it is just the last frame before hitlag ends. It also always moves you 3 units regardless of the attack. Holding down on the C-stick should certainly make it easier to tech since that's been proven quite clearly to be a key component in ground teching after missed rests with Jiggs and stuff like that.
Cummings
Smash Apprentice
not really.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Winston
Smash Master
I'm completely baffled by this post. It doesn't respond to anything Bones's post at all...
Cummings
Smash Apprentice
they call me the convo killer
Winston
Smash Master
I have a nice stupid answer
use the control stick
(this actually works, but probably isn't worth learning)
use the control stick
(this actually works, but probably isn't worth learning)
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Man I love watching Sion videos. When I watch his videos, more than any other falco, I'm reminded of how important it is to not play too linear and not be too predictable (and have FUN).
does anyone have any advice on how to deal with players like west, axe, vman, etc.
my experience makes me very good vs smart players but I lose to super technical bumrush. I just have so little experience vs that kind of playstyle that I lock up or I get nervous and my execution falters.
my experience makes me very good vs smart players but I lose to super technical bumrush. I just have so little experience vs that kind of playstyle that I lock up or I get nervous and my execution falters.
Don't freak out. You need to learn what to look for when stuck in those situations. Specifically, instead of freaking out when under pressure, look for opportunities to create space, or when unable to create space, at least make small changes to your position. Even small changes disrupt overwhelming tech skill and will more than likely lead to you being able to create space.
If all else fails, buffer jump backwards out of shield during shield stun to start learning when you are able to move oos.
If all else fails, buffer jump backwards out of shield during shield stun to start learning when you are able to move oos.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Well, you said one thing yourself: Don't get nervous. They are not superhumans performing miracles, just people moving their fingers a bit faster and/or more precise than you can do for now.
You want to beat them basically the same way you beat smart players: Think about what they might do (or bait them to do stuff), know which of your options beats what they are going to do, perform what you feel is best in the situation.
Difference against technical players mostly is, that they get to do some things others can't do but if they are not smart about it, it's easier to guess their actions correctly. Maaaaaybe some of their stuff is so good, you can't beat it with your level of techskill. In that case you should avoid those situations and steer to something where their techskill doesn't help them much.
Say, Wests doubleshine wd (/airdodge if he messes up) shield pressure is too precise for you to get out safely (actually wd in place is punishable, if you get the timing down, though that can be pretty tricky with two shines and not only one happening before... This actually is a pretty nice example... double shine WD in place is really good and somewhat hard to punish, but West might just be doing it so much, that you can predict the occurrences and punish for it)... well, what I actually wanted to say before I got sidetracked: If his shield pressure is too much to handle, try to avoid having to shield in the first place... maybe your opponents spacing game isn't as good as yours, and you can just DD avoid most of his stuff anyways.
And in some situations no amount of techskill will help your opponent. Not even Silentwolf can do techroll -> buffered spot dodge any faster / better than we can do
In summary: Don't do anything special, just respect the options he gets for having good tech skill. Also some of the players doing impressive stuff tend to mess up occasionally. That are good spots to hit them (Armada is far more scary... he just doesn't screw up :D)
You want to beat them basically the same way you beat smart players: Think about what they might do (or bait them to do stuff), know which of your options beats what they are going to do, perform what you feel is best in the situation.
Difference against technical players mostly is, that they get to do some things others can't do but if they are not smart about it, it's easier to guess their actions correctly. Maaaaaybe some of their stuff is so good, you can't beat it with your level of techskill. In that case you should avoid those situations and steer to something where their techskill doesn't help them much.
Say, Wests doubleshine wd (/airdodge if he messes up) shield pressure is too precise for you to get out safely (actually wd in place is punishable, if you get the timing down, though that can be pretty tricky with two shines and not only one happening before... This actually is a pretty nice example... double shine WD in place is really good and somewhat hard to punish, but West might just be doing it so much, that you can predict the occurrences and punish for it)... well, what I actually wanted to say before I got sidetracked: If his shield pressure is too much to handle, try to avoid having to shield in the first place... maybe your opponents spacing game isn't as good as yours, and you can just DD avoid most of his stuff anyways.
And in some situations no amount of techskill will help your opponent. Not even Silentwolf can do techroll -> buffered spot dodge any faster / better than we can do
In summary: Don't do anything special, just respect the options he gets for having good tech skill. Also some of the players doing impressive stuff tend to mess up occasionally. That are good spots to hit them
(Armada is far more scary... he just doesn't screw up :D)
Practice slower of course.
Mentally telling yourself you have to slow down works for me, but maybe you could envision Falco's jump taking longer than Fox's and that could be a good fix.
In addition to what has been said already, get friendlies. With them, or at least other techy players so you can learn where the holes in pressure are and how to deal with their pace.does anyone have any advice on how to deal with players like west, axe, vman, etc.
my experience makes me very good vs smart players but I lose to super technical bumrush. I just have so little experience vs that kind of playstyle that I lock up or I get nervous and my execution falters.
Thanks for the advice.
My issue is mainly that nobody in my immediate area has ever played like that. I usually have to travel just to expose myself to that play style.
My issue is mainly that nobody in my immediate area has ever played like that. I usually have to travel just to expose myself to that play style.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Same here, bro. Watch videos and specifically study instances where one player is shield pressuring the other. Look for what they did to escape (WD, attack, roll, spotdodge, and grab are the main options), and WHEN they did it (after a certain action like shine or jab, or maybe they did it because of how an attack was spaced/timed on their shield). Especially spacie shield pressure, but other characters' pressure is important to understand too. You don't want to learn all this stuff to get out of spacie shield pressure and lose a tournament set because you let a Sheik/Doc jab-grab you all day. lolThanks for the advice.
My issue is mainly that nobody in my immediate area has ever played like that. I usually have to travel just to expose myself to that play style.
Don't just spam shield though. I just think getting solid OoS options is the fastest way to improve vs. aggro players. I used to just get steamrolled by spacies because I just sat and shield and literally had no idea what to do or how to begin doing it. I sat down and figured out my options, and now I've sort of started looking at pre-shield defense, which is basically stuff like Cactuar was referring to where you make a quick movement just to throw off their spacing or setup for your OoS option. A simple WD or dash back before you shield their incoming SHFFL makes a huge difference in what options either player has available to them.
watching videos and applying what you watched in a tournament set vs something you're not comfortable with are very different in practice, unfortunately.
Squirt
Smash Apprentice
Would you mind giving a few specific videos with good shield pressure to analyze?
Hourglass
Smash Rookie
Can someone provide tips on performing a dair to a turn around up-tilt? Sometimes I do an up smash or a high f-tilt. Thanks.
There is no real secret. Just practice it until you do it right, and commit that to memory.
Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
Van.
Smash Ace
^did rubyiris rename himself?
also mad shoutouts to my new fave falco frootloop, singlehandedly exposing LOWcal by beating lovage and westballz, not even a fluke vs. wes you just thoroughly outplayed him, and also shoutouts to HIV+ really impressive showing
also mad shoutouts to my new fave falco frootloop, singlehandedly exposing LOWcal by beating lovage and westballz, not even a fluke vs. wes you just thoroughly outplayed him, and also shoutouts to HIV+ really impressive showing
I'm a girl, and yes I did.
I don't go by that name anymore specifically because people knew Rubyiris as a guy.
no more omg of that ruby questions/statements, please.
I don't go by that name anymore specifically because people knew Rubyiris as a guy.
no more omg of that ruby questions/statements, please.
Mahone
Smash Champion
i hate this community
Bones0
Smash Legend
It was kind of obvious after this post:
does anyone have any advice on how to deal with players like west, axe, vman, etc.
my experience makes me very good vs smart players but I lose to super technical bumrush. I just have so little experience vs that kind of playstyle that I lock up or I get nervous and my execution falters.
Good thing you never have to meet them since no one travels.i hate this community
*rimshot*
crush
Smash Master
i like butterflies
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Hey I have a technical issue that's been bothering me since I started playing falco way back when. When I do shine turn-around Bair, I get the turn-around but then I tend to get stuck in my shine about 70% of the time. I've messed with different methods and timings but I could never fix this problem. Is there something about the timing that I'm unaware of? It's not something super important but I'd like to fix this problem because shine-turnaround bair can be quite useful.
And oh boy did he expose socal
like at FC when he lost to BAKA4MOE
edit: how the **** did the mods find my post so fast
LMAO, were u that punk *** charizard guy in the stream? Didn't know till now that u were such a ****ing homo
And oh boy did he expose socal
like at FC when he lost to BAKA4MOE
edit: how the **** did the mods find my post so fast
you're pushing jump too early, stab.
I had the same problem.
I had the same problem.
Moooose
Smash Champion
frootloop beat hax at fc too. i dont think he's very good vs peach tho
i got 13th today. i beat everyone in 2nd round pools except sfat including doh and toph for my 2nd seed, and beat cunning and hiv in bracket, losing to hbox and darkatma
@stab, are you talking about when the shine connects or not? theres a different timing either way
i got 13th today. i beat everyone in 2nd round pools except sfat including doh and toph for my 2nd seed, and beat cunning and hiv in bracket, losing to hbox and darkatma
@stab, are you talking about when the shine connects or not? theres a different timing either way
peach and falcon are like my only good match ups.
maybe marth.
maybe marth.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
oh wow that's seriously all there is to it? lolyou're pushing jump too early, stab.
I had the same problem.
can you ever jump too late? (other than the fact that'd you'd miss with the bair)
USUALLY when the shine hits
Yes you can jump too late. you could turn around but push the jump button/up too late and just turn around like a derp. both hitting it too early and too late have the same effect.
are you having the problem using shine turnaround bair during hitlag when you shine them? or like, using the shine turn around bair to hit an edgueguard? it changes the timing significantly.
are you having the problem using shine turnaround bair during hitlag when you shine them? or like, using the shine turn around bair to hit an edgueguard? it changes the timing significantly.
Moooose
Smash Champion
if ur not hitting with the shine you can jump whenever so u dont have to wait
if you hit them with shine you have to delay your turnaround and jump timings
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Alright this is good info
Do you guys know approx. how big the window is?
Do you guys know approx. how big the window is?
mexicanmax227
Smash Apprentice
MArth main. any advice or really important things I should know, or any good links to some good info? I know chain grabbing good, hes a heavy character, and if im a stock up then definitly play COCKY vs. lasers( assume the bird is thinking im going to counter and just play arrogant. Im aware of most of my options OOS but if anyone wants to give me a refreash please do . Thank you community.
. Thank you community.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
"like at FC when he lost to BAKA4MOE"
Baka4moe is pretty good though....
Baka4moe is pretty good though....
honestly i can't really articulate it in words. i just felt out the timing through constantly attempting it in real matches.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
This also happened to me... figured if I was going to do shine -> turnaround -> aerial, I was rotating the controlstick from down to left/right anyways, so why not just move it a bit further and do the jump with the controlstick. It's not like I could mess up a short hop mid air anyways, the controlstick is moving already, so let's keep it simple to speed everything up.
Turns out after all I am fast enough with that to get stuck in hitstun.
Well, I just practiced to intentionally slow down a bit (first time I had to do that, usually I am too slow lol :D). I think hitlag on a fresh falco shine is five frames, but don't quote me on that (:
I just jumped into a CPU and tried to shine bair with different levels of staleness until I got it right most of the time.
edit: Fun fact - for some reason this never happened with shine turnaround grab.
Moooose
Smash Champion
Bones0
Smash Legend
You can jump as late as you want out of shine-turnaround. The catch is that after a certain point you have to keep B held, meaning you have to either claw or jump with the control stick. That's how people do shine stalls off the side of the stage and immediately DJ aerial to edgeguard. The only difference is hitlag making you wait before inputting the turn.