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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

stingers

stingers

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I watched the first game of set 2 on yoshis and saw a good example of what you were talking about here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoob08ssmvs&t=3m29s

Obvious solution is azendashing.

Secondary solution is ledgestalling. When he does that double jump, you can be pretty confident he wont throw an aerial out...so right when hes about to DJ (and you know when that will be) just jump and waveland on? or maybe firebird stall, which might actually be better than firefox stalling since the flames wont be there to hit him and help him recover.
 
stabbedbyanipple

stabbedbyanipple

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moose u play kinda ghey

haven't watched my self play in a while so i might play ghey too, even though i don't feel like it

but regardless, i think u could maybe force more openings and not back off when you do get a chance to apply pressure

2 pennys
 
Moooose

Moooose

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stabbedbyanipple said:
moose u play kinda ghey

haven't watched my self play in a while so i might play ghey too, even though i don't feel like it

but regardless, i think u could maybe force more openings and not back off when you do get a chance to apply pressure

2 pennys
Click to expand...
yea i noticed that too when i watched the vids.
its not that i want to play this way, it's more of a way to counter my rustiness/lack of tech skill and make it a nonfactor.
the problem is my pressure strings tend to fall apart from technical mistakes if they go on too long, and i don't have any time to practice anymore.
another reason i back off when i get a chance to apply pressure is that i'm used to players rolling alot more in my region. EC players like to stay in shield/jump out of shield more than i'm used to. but i'll adjust soon.
i've been studying some mango vids tho, hopefully i can learn something and play less gay at the next one.
 
Jake13

Jake13

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PP there were a lot of times in your set where you could have rolled and edgehogged m2k but you dj'd onto the stage and he just grabbed the ledge for free

Specifically this happened 2 or 3 times in a row on the left side of dreamland

But I saw m2k getting away with that on other players too

:phone:
 
Warhawk

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Mew2King said:
these MUs are unwinnable unless the falco plays bad, i don't want to try them anymore, and if i had a group of 200000 people helping me with how to handle exact situations, id probably be a lot better too
Click to expand...
I think you should take your performance more positively. You played amazing and were just a few bad decisions from winning it all against who might be the top Falco in the world. Honestly it seemed like you had the misfortune of having a really bad game when it mattered most, had you been on that last game it could have gone very differently. You showed you can compete for wins with the best again and I think that's what you should take from this..
 
knightpraetor

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gosh people are really underestimating sheik's recovery abilities.

he got on when he could have rolled because whether you get on or roll there is always a 50/50 at worst for sheik on edgeguarding if she recovers correctly.

as for PP's problem...

honestly I think you're whining too much pp, you basically said, i want to have invuln before he gets near the stage and gimp him at low percent rather than try to wavedash to the ledge later so i have invuln at the right time and risk getting hit and having invuln at the right time to punish him. btw, i had this same conversation with fiz in NC when he complained about me going low with marth.

you basically just want a perfectly safe edgeguard on him when you have time to get the ledge with early invuln. (btw, this isn't just a problem vs sheik..other characters can do this to falco too..even marth)

however, since what you want is not an option that works but an option that is broken and covers everything with no risk, then what you're looking for is taking the ledge early and invuln firefox stall, so i guess your only hope is if someone can post proving that it's possible with falco since they already showed it's possible with fox.

i'm glad most foxes i play don't have the balls to do that 100% consistently every time when i'm marth. though i could still go high during their refresh, as can sheik, but that would mean always taking damage when coming back..

the sad thing is fox/falco with those invuln refreshes probably can have this perfect no risk world that pp wants...however, don't whine when you mess it up in tourney and lose a set.
 
D

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Mew2King said:
these MUs are unwinnable unless the falco plays bad, i don't want to try them anymore, and if i had a group of 200000 people helping me with how to handle exact situations, id probably be a lot better too
Click to expand...
as far as i can tell, falco vs sheik isn't unwinnable overall, it's just impossible from a practical standpoint. you'd have to outplay the relevant 2 falcos outside of the current skill level. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I'll help you with it if you want. I hate that MU too.

I think you'd be better off as Marth, dead honest. At least that way when you "get them" you can punish better. You gain no real advantage picking sheik over marth in this MU anyway as far as I can tell.
 
knightpraetor

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yeah i agree with umbreon there. watching sheik vs falco, i really thought that the only advantage sheik gains over marth when fighting falco is a faster fall time to allow for more FH/DJ slightly more safely. in terms of approaches once you're close enough that the falco can't laser safely she has nothing on marth. edgeguarding seems roughly equivalent and they both get comboed the same. Fox on the other hand gets in much better, gimps falco harder but then gets comboed horrendously.

I think marth does pretty well vs falco compared to the other top tiers that either get shut down even worse by lasers or like fox get comboed harder. If m2k were going to try someone other than marth it should be fox, peach or jiggs. The latter two because they get around the lasers which are m2k's biggest problem, but i don't think m2k could learn those other two characters that fast. Just learn to powershield.
 
leffen

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LOL at Sheik and Marth vs Falco being impossible

emo whiny **** you have a horrible mindset and should stop being an awful representative for the smash scene
 
Mew2King

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i agree i am too emo i should stop leffen is right (that does not mean i can so easily stop, but i agree i should), i do think i would have a better chance with a space animal though. With that said, i still think i should stop tourneys for a while (no choice between Sept -> Dec or else i skip the 2 mandatory saturday classes that i already signed up for at the college today since there is no way around it) and come back to the game way later. I also think i shouldn't keep doing melee singles at nationals with both games because if im not 100% in todays metagame its almost an auto-loss.
 
Bing

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I also think Marth has a better chance against Falco. I mean Sheik does have the better mobility option, and those gimps you can score are great, but Marth can also gimp marth fairly easily, has those chaingrab death combos and just better options in general.
 
leffen

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Mew2King said:
i agree i am too emo i should stop leffen is right (that does not mean i can so easily stop, but i agree i should), i do think i would have a better chance with a space animal though. With that said, i still think i should stop tourneys for a while (no choice between Sept -> Dec or else i skip the 2 mandatory saturday classes that i already signed up for at the college today since there is no way around it) and come back to the game way later. I also think i shouldn't keep doing melee singles at nationals with both games because if im not 100% in todays metagame its almost an auto-loss.
Click to expand...
In other Fighting games, there are many pros who place top 8 in 12 games at the same event, with no warmup/wait between. The top pros often win more than more game.

You are incredibly spoiled in having a chance to warmup and your only playing 2 (similar!) games

No ****ing johns
 
unknown522

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Never

But anyways, an example on leffen's post: there was a Canadian major less than 2 weeks ago in Toronto, which had Americans come in. Air beat Raynex in WFs for KoF13 and then immediately had to play matches in SF4 with no break or warmup. He's and a lot of players (including Raynex himself) had to do this a lot at many tourneys while still performing well and such.

Being confident takes you a long way. Along with discipline and practice.

:phone:
 
A

Anand

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leffen said:
You are incredibly spoiled in having a chance to warmup and your only playing 2 (similar!) games
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the ease of switching doesn't always increase with similarity. Switching between Melee and badminton is probably easier than switching between Melee and Brawl.
 
leffen

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Badminton and Melee require entirely different warmups.

Brawl and Melee are similar fighting games, and while other games may be easier to switch between, they aren't THAT hard and M2K always delays every tournament with 5 hours of warmup between every switch he takes lol
 
Bing

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Anand said:
Keep in mind that the ease of switching doesn't always increase with similarity. Switching between Melee and badminton is probably easier than switching between Melee and Brawl.
Click to expand...


umm, I really disagree with this.. ones a physical sport... the other is the 3rd generation of the same game. The physics are different yes, but this example is rather poor. Personally I have very little to no issue switching between the two.. So I agree with Leffen.
 
unknown522

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Actually, I think that switching between melee and brawl may have a few effects. Since the game is similar looking, people could probably mix up certain things like physics differences, ATs that may be in one game and not in the other, and such.

But still, that's something that shouldn't be a problem if you're good at both games I guess

Switching between a video game and a sport would be mad easy

:phone:
 
Bing

Bing

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Well once you get to a high enough level switching really isnt that difficult because you can differentiate between the two. Like I main Fox in both games. I know when playing Brawl, I can use tactics such as the drill to u-tilt combo all day to 300% if buffered properly. In Melee this obviously doesnt work. In Brawl you can air-dodge x number of times, in melee its once. Personally I've never had that issue...
 
ShroudedOne

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I'm re-watching your GFs set fvs M2K, Peepee, and it seems like the things I'm finding which confused me then, make sense to me now/aren't glaring enough to warrant bringing them up.

This situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8iTKxosywts#t=138s came up a couple times, where I feel like if you were to call it (he recovered low like this most of the time) you could risk a brave dair, but for the most part, it seems fine.

The only thing I could say is that when edgeguarding Sheik, just opt for hitting her back off everytime. So, bair > shine, dair > everything else if you can hit it in a way that sends them offstage (dair pretty much invalidates DI, I think, you just have to use it right), and even bthrow. I guess I felt like your edge guards took too long. Every second she lives is another second that Falco can die (apparently he's kind of fragile. Who knew?)

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, besides telling you to make decisions that will kill her quicker, lol. :\
 
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