PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[kevo]

If I ever see a combo video with Taylor Swift music.

 

[Bones0]

PP, did you get to talk with Shiz about the Falco vs. spacies MUs? I've seen his matches vs. Eggm and I was amazed lol. Shiz is a beast when it comes to play against spacies D:

Also, what would you recommend doing against an Ice-like Marth? I mean if the Marth is powershielding the lasers (and punishing with WD > grabs/smashes) and your approaches, camping platforms, spamming CCs, stuffing your approaches with smashes/tilts etc. what is Falco supposed to do? I know it's kinda vague, but I didn't get to record any decent matches with OverLord this time so I can't provide vids to be more specific. He has started to play a lot like Ice and I'm having troubles in the MU lol xP

You really only need a few tools against powershielding:
1. Empty hops
2. Low lasers from further away so you can jump over them with another SHL (plus low lasers are harder to powershield as is)
3. High lasers that you can run under if he does powershield it
4. Mix in dash dances between SHLs; the main reason most people are able to land powershields really consistently is because most Falco players are very lazy and openly telegraph when they are going to laser

If he is WDing away/grabbing you after powershields, try empty hop into grab or shine, and work from there.


Powershielding approaches (SHFFLed nair/dair) doesn't help Marth in any way. Just delay your aerials like you normally should be, and spam shine grab until he wants to start WDing out of shield asap.

Platform camping? Just shine-waveland/uair him... If he is CCing, just dair him...

If he is shutting down your approaches with fsmash/tilts, you just need to space better and be less predictable. This sort of goes back to the more dash dancing within SHLs. Maybe try just being more patient in general.

 

[Cherished Doll]

lol holy **** emily
you're too good

=^_^=

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, did you get to talk with Shiz about the Falco vs. spacies MUs? I've seen his matches vs. Eggm and I was amazed lol. Shiz is a beast when it comes to play against spacies D:

Also, what would you recommend doing against an Ice-like Marth? I mean if the Marth is powershielding the lasers (and punishing with WD > grabs/smashes) and your approaches, camping platforms, spamming CCs, stuffing your approaches with smashes/tilts etc. what is Falco supposed to do? I know it's kinda vague, but I didn't get to record any decent matches with OverLord this time so I can't provide vids to be more specific. He has started to play a lot like Ice and I'm having troubles in the MU lol xP

I didn't talk to Shiz about vs spacies but I could explain all of his decisions if you want. I'm fine vs spacies too. Shiz was honestly lacking technically against Eggm and pretty much everyone over the course of the weekend so I'm not sure what exactly was impressive about a lackluster Shiz(who still has great strategy don't get me wrong).

Vs powershielding: mix up laser timing and height, as well as your movement in between lasers and how often you convert the lasers to approaches or defenses. If you see the laser get powershielded, remember you have defense against that as well. Ftilt, jab, shine, shield for attacks, FHs, and other quick maneuvers can be good for you.

vs platforms, lasers on side platforms, getting under him and working your bairs/Uairs/shine wavelands/rising dairs and bairs should be sufficient.

vs CCs: Dair obviously lol, grab him, shoot him again to make him freeze up since he didn't get the punish he wanted, empty hop to bait(probably will have to shine afterward since his auto response will be grab).

use movement to bait his moves then hit him. use lasers to stuff his moves or make him put up his shield then grab/pressure him.


@emily: thanks, I needed to read something like that =)

 

[ruhtraeel]

I don't see how anyone couldn't like Hbox as a person, he seems like a nice guy, but Mango seemed to be OK with him on the Apex stream

PP is a nice guy too from what I've seen, but also very (maybe overly?) confident

PP gives legit advice though, I always try out stuff he says (if I remember)



PLAYING FALCO VS MARTH SUCKSSSSSS

And vs Fox too when all they do is Shine OoS

 

[crush]

LOL PP is fat now <3

 

[noobird]

Kou vs. Zhu

Idk if anyone else saw this but look at all those grounded shine oos and double shines by kou! did you get to play with him at apex pp? what are your thoughts on the japanese players now compared to g2

 

[Dr Peepee]

I played with kou a little bit, and videos of our matches were recorded by him.

He improved a little bit from G2, but overall he is pretty much the same player.

I have mad respect for Japanese style of play, they are quite effective without really being gay imo.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Yo did anyone else think Ice is sick

Like his Marth makes so good attack move decisions, favourite Marth along with I.B.


I also realize I learn the most from watching PP, and he's the easiest to watch IMO

like watching Mango play Falco I'm so tempted to look at the other player, but with PP I can sit there and nod my head a bunch and say "that was smart"

 

[noobird]

ice's marth so smooth <3. and @pp - slightly improved relative to you or just slightly improved. would be nice to see the japanese catch up again, but doesn't seem likely to happen in the near future

 

[Dr Peepee]

I just meant from last time he improved haha.

Captain Jack and I also friendlied as well but I forgot to mention that before. Kou also recorded these matches, and they all happened directly after my friendlies with Armada(which Kou did not record but I believe Eclipsing Binary[<3333] did).

Yeah Japan isn't on our level at the moment but they are smart enough individuals to catch up should they continue playing. I asked Captain Jack himself if he would keep playing but it didn't seem likely haha. Kou could catch up to our top level eventually though.

 

[crush]

If I ever see a combo video with Taylor Swift music.

yeah im putting Superman in my next troll combo video

 

[Divinokage]

I also did MM Kou and recorded pretty sure. Can't wait to see that. =) I do like their style too.

 

[CK Momentum]

what makes the japanese play style different from ours?

 

[Divinokage]

Kinda hard to describe.. they just position themselves differently and use different moves. lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

what makes the japanese play style different from ours?

We tend to put more "gay" into our play lol, but then we also put in a lot of hype insofar as our combo or movement game goes.

Japanese people all tend to think similarly about the game in that they won't put as much of that gay/hype "fluff" in it, and instead focus on simple, yet effective, fundamental play. I like it a lot, even if it is even more basic than my own play. Japanese players are wonderful reminders that fundamentals are really all that is needed in order to win at smash(the same is true for the Brawl players that came from Japan that won Apex).

 

[Cherished Doll]

@emily: thanks, I needed to read something like that =)

No problem I am like you #1 fan! I got you

 

[CK Momentum]

So today I was playing and I was getting comboed by a falcon really badly because I kept missing a tech, then I felt like even though I had timed my next press of the L button correctly, I still missed the next tech, and the next one, and the next one. Next thing I know my character would scream terribly then explode off the side of the screen. Two questions.

1. How do I prevent missing repeated techs.
2. How can I try and get my opponent to miss his techs as falco? Like what tools do I have that can disrupt his timing etc?.

 

[kevo]

fyi, Peepee, I had some money riding on you to win Apex. I'm a little salty about my $5, but I'm gonna have it riding on you next tournament, too.


Cuz you're the best. Keep it up!

 

[Dr Peepee]

No problem I am like you #1 fan! I got you

=D so glad people still have faith after nearly a year of silliness from me haha

So today I was playing and I was getting comboed by a falcon really badly because I kept missing a tech, then I felt like even though I had timed my next press of the L button correctly, I still missed the next tech, and the next one, and the next one. Next thing I know my character would scream terribly then explode off the side of the screen. Two questions.

1. How do I prevent missing repeated techs.
2. How can I try and get my opponent to miss his techs as falco? Like what tools do I have that can disrupt his timing etc?.

1. Missing techs repeatedly is a great way to kill Falco honestly. It's like comboing him but he keeps holding in or something LOL. In that same line of thought, you should expect people to push for continually pushing you into the ground once you miss a tech after you've missed your first one and work on pushing the button early(early is better than later and you have a ton of frame leeway iirc) for the next time you get pushed into the ground.

2. Platform Dairs. This is why Shiz was NUTS on FoD back in the day imo. He just disrupted techs on the low platform with repeated Dairs and people died for not knowing wtf was going on lol. SH Dair, fall through platform Dair, to rising Dair will combo on lots of things that miss techs(usually have to be FF'ers though but not always).

Changing your timing of your Dair will obviously make people miss the frame window to tech(say you SH but don't FF and then Dair last second in your jump but then next time you Dair as soon as you jump....sick timing mixup).

Moving around like you're going to do something different and conditioning your opponent to only worry about DI could be another way to force them to miss techs.

It's all general conditioning stuff so there's probably more but this is the main stuff I know off the top.

fyi, Peepee, I had some money riding on you to win Apex. I'm a little salty about my $5, but I'm gonna have it riding on you next tournament, too.


Cuz you're the best. Keep it up!

<3 your faith is not misplaced man. <3

 

[CK Momentum]

Okay and also on the lines of conditioning.... when I'm tech chasing, I heard someone say at this $1 tournament at apex that s2j does this so maybe I should ask him... but someone said that he scares people into not teching a certain way and it makes them a lot easier to predict. Is this accomplished just by repeatedly destroying someone when they tech a certain way?

Edit: Also when you say condition people to care only about DI is it correct to say that I would do this by comboing them in the air? Then if I want them to think only about techs I combo them on the ground. (just generally).

 

[Dr Peepee]

Okay and also on the lines of conditioning.... when I'm tech chasing, I heard someone say at this $1 tournament at apex that s2j does this so maybe I should ask him... but someone said that he scares people into not teching a certain way and it makes them a lot easier to predict. Is this accomplished just by repeatedly destroying someone when they tech a certain way?

Edit: Also when you say condition people to care only about DI is it correct to say that I would do this by comboing them in the air? Then if I want them to think only about techs I combo them on the ground. (just generally).

Well if you're standing close to the middle, then they generally won't tech into the middle. Stuff like that as well as what you said could be the cause of why S2J is cutting off certain tech options.

Well sort of, but I meant that you would only act like you're going to hit someone into the air instead of pushing them into the ground again. What you're getting at is actually pushing them into the air or trying to get them to mix their tech up as an either/or, which is also a solid mixup.

 

[oliman]

does anyone know how to do the lil moonwalk mango does a lot as falco? its super cool but i cant figure it out.

also, i have super-faith in you, pp

 

[Rubyiris]

I wish I had fans, lol. That would be a really huge confidence boost.

In other news:

****tons of friendlies! I'd really appreciate some critique! <3

Vs Jetfour:

Captain Falcon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MRWnPU3ck0&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=2&feature=plcp
Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk_dNEUV9co&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=3&feature=plcp
Jigglypuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgk5yx5fq3I&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=7&feature=plcp

Vs Iron Dragon:

Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow1sg4cOrwk&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=6&feature=plcp
Shiek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzKBzELkWls&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=8&feature=plcp

Vs Forward:

Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifeiPSMRuYE&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=4&feature=plcp

Vs Coreygames:

Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Fbx38_d2Q&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=13&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jAvucrgjpc&list=UUOd2ncLP0OFPIDcX8iBcl5g&index=12&feature=plcp

 

[Rubyiris]

to do the moonwalk, you must do it out of a walking, or standing position. you can't run.

fast walk, or moonwalk helps give you enough forward momentum for full-distance.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I wish I had fans, lol. That would be a really huge confidence boost.

That tourney video of you vs silly kyle where you 2-0ed him made me a fan <3

 

[Rubyiris]

He was super egotistical that tournament, too. Of course he started to john hardcore about it, too. :\

 

[Druggedfox]

PP forget to say that the most important advice as falco vs fox is to be able to down air through clean upsmashes. Once you can down air through fox's upsmash, you'll never lose to him again.

>_>

/salt

 

[ShroudedOne]

...?

I thought Fox's head was invincible during that. At best, won't you only trade?

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP forget to say that the most important advice as falco vs fox is to be able to down air through clean upsmashes. Once you can down air through fox's upsmash, you'll never lose to him again.

>_>

/salt

clearly you don't know my tricks

clearly

 

[Blistering Speed]

I actually like the topics right now, they are a nice change from the usual Falco talk.

Lol.

And whenever you derail the tier list thread when you're non-sense you never seem to have a problem with it

Lol.

Now please, crawl back into that hiatus you've been in for the past six months and stop posting.

---

Anyone see that first hit U Air stuff Zhu was doing vs DSW? So sexy. Probably some actual utility to it, stabilising a FFers position mid combo and all that.

Also, Kou can do shine grabs OOS on demand. Do want.

 

[AvengerAngel]

You really only need a few tools against powershielding:
1. Empty hops
2. Low lasers from further away so you can jump over them with another SHL (plus low lasers are harder to powershield as is)
3. High lasers that you can run under if he does powershield it
4. Mix in dash dances between SHLs; the main reason most people are able to land powershields really consistently is because most Falco players are very lazy and openly telegraph when they are going to laser

Well, I actually tried pretty much everything you listed, but I guess I was too predictable with it xP
I'll try to be faster and more unpredictable with my approaches next time x)

Powershielding approaches (SHFFLed nair/dair) doesn't help Marth in any way. Just delay your aerials like you normally should be, and spam shine grab until he wants to start WDing out of shield asap.

Meh I used to think so, but the point is Marf gets pushed farther away when he powershields attacks, so the shine won't protect me from grabs/attacks anyway. I don't think Dtilt/Utilt is fast enough to cover Falco after he lands, so I guess overshooting the aerial and delaying it as much as possible would be better D:

Platform camping? Just shine-waveland/uair him... If he is CCing, just dair him...

I don't think it's THAT easy D:
Marf can get down of platforms with quick Fairs/Dairs, and if I get hit he'll probably start a combo from there. But then again, maybe I'm being too slow and predictable :x
I don't like Dair against Marf AT ALL, because it has a crappy range, more lag and it gets easily punished D:

If he is shutting down your approaches with fsmash/tilts, you just need to space better and be less predictable. This sort of goes back to the more dash dancing within SHLs. Maybe try just being more patient in general.

Ok, so the point is: Marf isn't able to take a laser and punish approaches with Fsmash/Tilts on reaction (like Sheik is). If I'm getting hit this way it's because I'm being too slow or my spacing is off, right?

I didn't talk to Shiz about vs spacies but I could explain all of his decisions if you want. I'm fine vs spacies too. Shiz was honestly lacking technically against Eggm and pretty much everyone over the course of the weekend so I'm not sure what exactly was impressive about a lackluster Shiz(who still has great strategy don't get me wrong).

Yeah, I noticed his tech skill was off and all, but it still impressed me how he could keep up with such a technical Fox with low tech skills and some bad decisions/suicides. I love the way he kept his combos clean and simple and how he gimped Eggm over and over again x)
I asked because I remember you said you had some problems in Falco dittos because of your style, so maybe talking to Shiz could get you to know the MU from a different perspective xP
But if you feel like doing a critique to Shiz/Zhu's matches it would be awesome. I always learn a lot from your video critiques, especially from the ones you do to players better than me =D

Vs powershielding: mix up laser timing and height, as well as your movement in between lasers and how often you convert the lasers to approaches or defenses. If you see the laser get powershielded, remember you have defense against that as well. Ftilt, jab, shine, shield for attacks, FHs, and other quick maneuvers can be good for you.

vs platforms, lasers on side platforms, getting under him and working your bairs/Uairs/shine wavelands/rising dairs and bairs should be sufficient.

vs CCs: Dair obviously lol, grab him, shoot him again to make him freeze up since he didn't get the punish he wanted, empty hop to bait(probably will have to shine afterward since his auto response will be grab).

Well I tried almost everything you and Bones said, but I guess it was just me being too slow and/or predictable this time. I'll keep in mind your advice and try to mix it up better next time xP
Also I barely used grabs this time, I dunno why lol. That's part of the reason why I was being too predictable x)

use movement to bait his moves then hit him. use lasers to stuff his moves or make him put up his shield then grab/pressure him.

Heh the point is the more we play, the less he'll be using his shield (Marfs don't like to be trapped in shield against Falcos). And again I guess it's my fault, I should condition him more and punish him when he's not using his shield xP

Thank you guys for the advice, I'll keep it in mind =D
Also Kou's Falco is mad sexy. I've been a fan of japanese Falcos (Kou and Hiko ) for years now <333

 

[SSBMLahti]

does anyone know how to do the lil moonwalk mango does a lot as falco? its super cool but i cant figure it out.

also, i have super-faith in you, pp

Check this out oli, my man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDiQ0qJd1p4

I'm guessing it's the same with every character, but it's easier to do with C. Falcon. Hope that helps!

 

[FoxLisk]

I wish I had fans, lol. That would be a really huge confidence boost.

try not being really mean all the time?

 

[Merkuri]

Lol.


Lol.

Now please, crawl back into that hiatus you've been in for the past six months and stop posting.

---

Anyone see that first hit U Air stuff Zhu was doing vs DSW? So sexy. Probably some actual utility to it, stabilising a FFers position mid combo and all that.

Also, Kou can do shine grabs OOS on demand. Do want.

Lol you dummy, shut up.

Hey PP how is it that you claim you weren't playing well at this tourney just because you lost to Javi? I just watched you against SFAT and Wobbles and you were looking great.

 

[Veetaak]

try not being really mean all the time?

I thought he had stopped with that?

He has been nice recently and we should not cling on to the past so much

 

[Druggedfox]

...?

I thought Fox's head was invincible during that. At best, won't you only trade?

Exactly. That's what *I* thought. PP's falco's has feet so gay that they go through invincible upsmashes though. It happened.

I'm still salty >_>

Edit: Merkuri, PP played very mediocre vs wobbles. In general any time you see PP doing a lot of in place lasers, it's because he's uncomfortable with his normal game due to having bad tech skill/being sick/not thinking straight/something of the sort; I watched PP play against wobbles for maybe 5 seconds before it was really obvious (if you knew anything about how PP NORMALLY plays when he's doing well) that he was playing terribly. Just because he beat his opponent by a noticeable margin does not imply he was playing well.

Edit2: Still salty

 

[Warhawk]

Anyone see that first hit U Air stuff Zhu was doing vs DSW? So sexy. Probably some actual utility to it, stabilising a FFers position mid combo and all that.

If you're talking about what I think you are talking about I've seen him do that and talk about it before and Zhu said that if they expect it you can very much DI out of it, but that its a good mixup.

 

[Rubyiris]

try not being really mean all the time?

Try not living in the past.

 

[JPOBS]

Anyone see that first hit U Air stuff Zhu was doing vs DSW? So sexy. Probably some actual utility to it, stabilising a FFers position mid combo and all that.

Canadian space animals have been doing that for years.

unknown522 might have invented it even >_>