PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

me and pp talking about him teaming with lozr:

[01:54] Kevin N: i remember lozr bought the LoZ shield and mike G gave him the master sword after tipped off 5 one cold night
[01:54] Max: last time i saw lozr
[01:54] Max: like actually saw him
[01:54] Max: he was like
[01:54] Max: idk just some regular player
[01:55] Max: now he looks like he was stuck in a prisoner of war camp in korea for 3 years and used all of his time working out so he could break out and escape
[01:56] Max: he was the only male in a room of like 600 males that had any semblence of muscle at all
[01:56] Max: like he got lost on the way to the gym and accidently got stuck at apex and someone forced him to play
[01:56] Kevin N: LMFAO
[01:56] Kevin N: idk the other nc guy with us was fairly buff too but he hid it more and wasnt quite as big haha
[01:57] Max: i met lozr at some gay VA biweekly or something in sept 2006 and i played him in fox dittos and he was god damn terrible
[01:58] Max: it seriously looks like he spent the last 5 years dropping steroids and dropping fox nairs
[01:58] Max: and_that's_it
[01:58] Kevin N: LOL
[01:58] Kevin N: its funny cuz he didnt even start working out until 09 or 2010 i think
[01:58] Kevin N: probly 09
[01:59] Max: maybe it was like
[01:59] Max: a passing consideration considering he'd already spent 3 years as a lumberjack
[01:59] Max: LOL
[01:59] Kevin N: loool nah that dude was straight toothpick status which is why its so funny XD
[02:00] Max: no one actually cares about how good the NC players are
[02:00] Max: it's all about how much testosterone they inject into their groin areas so they can be buff and have unnecessarily large amounts of facial hair
[02:00] Max: "guys, let's all go to apex looking like blacksmiths from the middle ages"
[02:00] Max: "great idea"
[02:01] Kevin N: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
[02:01] Max: ****ing catfish pow wows
[02:01] Max: LOL
[02:01] Kevin N: hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
[02:01] Kevin N: dang it LMAO
[02:01] Max: like even the north carolina women spend most of their days squeezing the felled trees for syrup LOL
[02:03] Kevin N: OMFG
[02:03] Kevin N: wtf is up with your jokes lmfaooo

 

[Bones0]

What is theory bros?

It's just a reference to how what could theoretically happen in Melee almost never actually happens. In this case, it is about how in THEORY, Peach can FC fair -> grab a roll, but in REALITY, this would probably very rarely happen if you buffered a roll due to the fair hitting too high, the fair being stunned, not grabbing asap, etc.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Wow. Umbreon, you're really funny.

And yeah, I guess I stick by what I said earlier. Buffer rolls away from him when he does that. But his nickname is "AR" for a reason...

 

[CK Momentum]

bones we gotta get on aim some time, i need your knowledge of falco. thanks for the friendlies btw with milkman, even tho u guys mostly ***** me u showed me i need to work on a lot of defensive things around shield pressure. so thats what im doing with irish mafia this thursday. :]]

 

[Anand]

huh.....is it possible to buffer peach's grab after the Fair? otherwise my odds of buffering rolls out seem decent.

You can't buffer shield grab because shield grab is not produced by a block + c-stick input combination (only things you can buffer are jump, sidestep, and rolls).

I think PP was asking if Peach can buffer the grab or if Peach has to be (nearly) frame perfect to beat the buffer roll, not asking whether he can buffer a grab to beat this. (I wasn't sure if you were trying to answer his question or just dropping knowledge for the spectators.)

But yes, PP, Peach can't buffer the grab and there are other factors, so in practice you are probably better off rolling (it seems harder to punish than spot dodge if Armada mixes it up and doesn't grab, too; for example, I am pretty sure FC fair > dsmash would still hit after the spot dodge invincibility ends; I have no idea whether it's actually safer though, and I'm sure the other people in this thread have better things to say).

 

[Bones0]

Marth technically cannot get the first regrab if you DI down & away from f-throws. You can buffer anything out of it and avoid the follow (unless he waits). But then the risk is that he can up throw > regrab instead. The reason people DI into Marth (aside from panicking and being silly) at 0 is because if he up throws at 0 he can't regrab if you DI behind him (just too slow, only Falco [so don't ask about Fox]). If he grab attacks I think he can do it, but that's what mashing is for. Spacies in my experience tend to mash very little though, so maybe Marths should just do that instead of f-throw regrab. Hmm. Interesting thought.

Wow, that's a lot of text about a single mixup. Smash be wordy. Smash be vague. I want to rhyme plague somehow but I don't see how to.

Regarding FC aerials: Peach cannot buffer grab after FC aerial (or down smash, which is the other important one) and, in my experience, it's very hard to be frame perfect at that specific timing. So rolling is generally a go. On a related note, since you're frail, I think you're best off rolling. It's really hard for Peach to chase that because she's, well, terribly slow. Sidestep is generally awful vs Peach.

Waitwaitwaitwait... WHAT?! OMG if that's true. 99% of Marth players would rage so hard if you consistently escaped fthrow regrabs at 0%, especially if you did something like spot dodge shine and turned it into a 90% combo. I'm not worried about uthrow cause no Marths do that vs. Falco at 0% because it's so much harder, and idk about other spacies, but I try to mash out of grabs quite often.

Also:

Smash be wordy.
Smash be vague.
Smash be contagious like the plague.

me and pp talking about him teaming with lozr:

OMFG I was dying @ "blacksmiths from the middle ages."


OMG, I just realized you could press Z and A, one right after the other, in order to make sure you grab as soon as possible. So like Peach lands with a FC nair and holds L, then presses A followed by Z one frame later. This means you can kinda-sorta buffer a grab for 1 frame.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think PP was asking if Peach can buffer the grab or if Peach has to be (nearly) frame perfect to beat the buffer roll, not asking whether he can buffer a grab to beat this. (I wasn't sure if you were trying to answer his question or just dropping knowledge for the spectators.)

But yes, PP, Peach can't buffer the grab and there are other factors, so in practice you are probably better off rolling (it seems harder to punish than spot dodge if Armada mixes it up and doesn't grab, too; for example, I am pretty sure FC fair > dsmash would still hit after the spot dodge invincibility ends; I have no idea whether it's actually safer though, and I'm sure the other people in this thread have better things to say).

I realized my mistake and edited my post.

The gist of it is that:

Fair-grab loses to roll because of height
Fair-downsmash might lose to roll but it depends on how high they are and other crap like that (will probably work though)
Fair-jab probably beats roll but it's jab they probably can't follow it legitimately and you can probably roll after the jab if you're buffering anyway lolz

Low FC Nair is OP




Bones:

Marths could just up throw and then tech chase the regrab I think but shhh don't tell them that

Marth seriously has like 3+ good ways of doing the low percents game vs Falco for that first 20% or whatever it's really unfair but then again you're Falco so it kind of is fair

 

[Wake]

I was just wondering if FC Fair-->Jab beat buffer rolls...

 

[Dark Hart]

Marth could always down-throw...

 

[Beat!]

A lot of players are pretty bad at mashing out of grab, so pummeling once works as well.

Not against Hack, though. NEVER pummel against that guy. His mashing is ****ing ridiculous.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Loooool I tried to hold him for a while before throwing him to mess with his DI, but he mashes as fast as a level 9 CPU. Hack 2 gud x)

 

[Lightsyde]

None of the rest of NC who went looks like lumberjacks except for Kevin and Adam. >_>

Also, nobody who plays Smash in NC is overly country except for Kevin and Adam. <_<

If we have lumberjack women, I am envious of lumberjacks because our college campus have some ridiculously fine women. >_>

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i second that post.

except for the lumberjack women. idk anything about them

 

[bolt.]

Peepee, I get sick before every big tournament I go to. The only times I have been sick since I was 14 (I'm now 20) were before pound 5 and apex. I think this happens because I get really stressed out before big tournaments.

 

[Druggedfox]

Is all this buffering vs peach/marth stuff seriously not common knowledge?

-_____-

It's 2012 guys.

 

[Niko45]

If I'm able to fthrow regrab a spacie more than once I know its gonna be a good time.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

None of the rest of NC who went looks like lumberjacks except for Kevin and Adam. >_>

Also, nobody who plays Smash in NC is overly country except for Kevin and Adam. <_<

If we have lumberjack women, I am envious of lumberjacks because our college campus have some ridiculously fine women. >_>

Have you seen my beard? And my long hair?

I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.

Spoiler

I sleep all night and I work all day.

 

[Bones0]

Can anyone break down the advantage on block of SHFFLed fair? Either FFed, hitting the second hit as late as possible or non-FFed, hitting the third hit as late as possible. Does the shield stun stack from each hit or anything? Because I feel like otherwise you would just be able to shield grab it every time, no questions asked.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Peepee, I get sick before every big tournament I go to. The only times I have been sick since I was 14 (I'm now 20) were before pound 5 and apex. I think this happens because I get really stressed out before big tournaments.

That's actually what someone brought up to me. I don't remember feeling that stressed so much as hyped leading up to Apex, but I suppose I also had incredibly anxious/worrying moments like what if I didn't make it out of pools or whatever.

I guess I'll just try to control my mind better now to keep my body safe.

Is all this buffering vs peach/marth stuff seriously not common knowledge?

-_____-

It's 2012 guys.

the peach stuff I didn't think was necessary because I was trying to abuse side control stick mashing to get away, but yeah that marth fthrow regrab I totally didn't know about. XD

Can anyone break down the advantage on block of SHFFLed fair? Either FFed, hitting the second hit as late as possible or non-FFed, hitting the third hit as late as possible. Does the shield stun stack from each hit or anything? Because I feel like otherwise you would just be able to shield grab it every time, no questions asked.

I think strong bad told me that basically the first hit of fair can be shield grabbed and there's one extra frame of lag for the rest of the Fair hits. It should be shield grabbed but most people just don't expect it and it screws with their timing.

 

[Winston]

Just uthrow -> fthrow -> uthrow falco at 0. They'll be too confused to DI any of it. (Marth)

 

[Bones0]

Just uthrow -> fthrow -> uthrow falco at 0. They'll be too confused to DI any of it. (Marth)

You'd have to tech chase out of the first uthrow if they DI behind you, but yeah, as long as you can get the first tech chase regrab, I'm sure most people will expect another uthrow instead of an fthrow.

 

[ruhtraeel]

PP can you tell us what Javi did well at least? I want to learn from his Fox as well as your Falco.

 

[Mahone]

Javi beating PP was definitely his shining moment.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Javi beating PP was definitely his shining moment.

Like I watched the set again and Javi reads really well, and also shines out of pressure very well. There was also a part where he pressured PP to the point where he was scared to let down his shield whenever he was on a platform with Javi under him. This lead to empty FHs and ended eith PP being baired in the face after a couple.

That stuff, I have to learn from him.

If I can intimidate higher level players as much as Javi did to PP where the other person starts to act instinctively and start throwing out random moves, I think I would then be able to get the type of reads Javi gets and do a lot better in general.

I realize Javi gets the person to play HIS game rather than his own, something I have to learn to do against higher level players.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP can you tell us what Javi did well at least? I want to learn from his Fox as well as your Falco.

Javi is pretty good at waiting out the timings between just rushing in recklessly and waiting too long so he gets hit. His pressure and technical ability are quite solid but I feel he relies a tad too much on reaction time(this can pay off hugely though so it just depends on whether someone figures this out or not and how quickly they figure it out).

I haven't watched my matches with him or his matches with anyone else yet. These are just my initial thoughts based on memory. I'll probably be able to talk about his play better in a few days once I watch everything and recover a little more.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Yeah I also realized that he REALLY knows how to avoid lasers. Like a lot of times when you ran back to shoot a few lasers for spacing, he just got there before the laser came out and started going to work. This is why my confidence in Falco is wavering, because he used Fox's speed so well.

 

[Bones0]

Javi beating PP was definitely his shining moment.

lol I feel like nobody else ever gets your jokes. >_>

 

[Bones0]

Yeah I also realized that he REALLY knows how to avoid lasers. Like a lot of times when you ran back to shoot a few lasers for spacing, he just got there before the laser came out and started going to work. This is why my confidence in Falco is wavering, because he used Fox's speed so well.

Player Skill>>>Matchups

^ This

 

[Mahone]

lol I feel like nobody else ever gets your jokes. >_>

lol, its alright man... i just write them for you <3

 

[Divinokage]

You think that's a joke? Lame......

Rise & SHINE

 

[ruhtraeel]

^ This

but when player skill is equal then there's some factor in the matchup as well

 

[Beat!]

lol I feel like nobody else ever gets your jokes. >_>

I GOT IT

caps

 

[Mahone]

You think that's a joke? Lame......

Rise & SHINE

You're a joke...

GOT'EM!!!

I GOT IT

caps

nice, i knew you would Beat!

 

[Bones0]

Equal player skill doesn't exist.

 

[Dr Peepee]

assuming top level ability is the best way to discuss matchups. it allows you to assume near-equal skill for players and instead pushes the focus on individual character traits and abilities, which should be what matchups are about anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

@pee pee

would you have beat javi if you weren't sick?

 

[ruhtraeel]

@pee pee

would you have beat javi if you weren't sick?

lol nobody wants to answer that question

s2j are you asian

 

[Dr Peepee]

@pee pee

would you have beat javi if you weren't sick?

I'm gonna PM you.

 

[Deleted member]

lol nobody wants to answer that question

s2j are you asian

sadly, yes

 

[ruhtraeel]

sadly, yes

what do you mean sadly

it auto gives us tech skill