PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[unknown522]

do they not teach you to simplify fractions in canada

in this case 6/8 means 6 out of 8, not six-eights

 

[Battlecow]

I was under the impression leffen mained fox? I don't see how that's copping out >_>
and 17th at a tourny like Apex is like, hella good lol.

I don't see Armada getting lower than 2nd.

He said for the longest time he was gonna play yoshi, everyone told him he wasn't, and then he gradually started moving towards fox. Not a bad thing, just that everyone saw it from months back and he held onto the ghost.

Yeah 17th is good. Like I said, he's good at melee. It's not as good as he thinks he is, though.

Also leffen AT LEAST 10% of my posts are about plank

But nah seriously I brought you up ONE TIME in the 64 boards, don't go thinking I care.

 

[Beat!]

in this case 6/8 means 6 out of 8, not six-eights

Welcome to crush

 

[Stevo]

do they not teach you to simplify fractions in canada

They teach us to complicate fractions

7.8/10.4

 

[FoxLisk]

i dont see armada getting higher than 3rd

 

[Druggedfox]

Alright, thanks leffen; I'll look forward to it whenever you decide to post about it.

I swear shield grabbing buffers, and I'm pretty convinced that something along those lines is REALLY important when it comes to deciding what you'll do with double shine pressure. A lot of people grab me out of double shine pressure and I'm pretty sure it's them trying to grab me after the first shine, but being really late, so because of that it buffers and they grab me instantly after the second shine >_>

 

[FoxLisk]

Alright, thanks leffen; I'll look forward to it whenever you decide to post about it.

I swear shield grabbing buffers, and I'm pretty convinced that something along those lines is REALLY important when it comes to deciding what you'll do with double shine pressure. A lot of people grab me out of double shine pressure and I'm pretty sure it's them trying to grab me after the first shine, but being really late, so because of that it buffers and they grab me instantly after the second shine >_>

if shield grabbing buffers, why doesnt everyone grab every not-incredibly-late aerial-shine on shield?

 

[Druggedfox]

Because it's a tiny buffer (if it exists)

I don't have any factual information supporting this, it's just my theory... because the times I DO get grabbed after double shines, I swear it looks like a frame perfect grab.

 

[leffen]

Im 99,9999% sure is no buffer on shield grabs, and when you get doubleshine grab'd its probably because they:
1. predicted it
2. just mashed grab (since there is no hole)
3. Tried to Nair oos (jump doesn't come out because of the extra shine)

 

[FoxLisk]

Im 99,9999% sure is no buffer on shield grabs, and when you get doubleshine grab'd its probably because they:
1. predicted it
2. just mashed grab (since there is no hole)
3. Tried to Nair oos (jump doesn't come out because of the extra shine)

im guessing that #2 covers 90% of the situations where you're getting doublehsine grabbed right now. As it becomes more common #1 will eat up more of that fraction.

But if I have already decided "mash grab after shine" and you doubleshine perfectly and my mashing is imperfect (i mean not once per frame, obviously - no normal human is gonna get more than like one every 3-4 frames i dont think), there's a chance I'll hit grab towards the end of your first shine's hitlag and then again toward the beginning of your second shine's hitlag and then again after your second shine's hitlag, grabbing you very close to frame perfectly more or less by accident.
And since shine's hitlag is only a few frames, and button mashing should only be a few frames, this kind of situation working out to being within 1-2 frames of perfect isn't even that unlikely.

Anyway, basically nothing I've ever heard has sounded like there's any possibility of buffering shield grabs, and if it were possible the whole shieldpressure metagame would be dramatically different than it is now, so I'm pretty sure there's no buffering shieldgrabs.

 

[Druggedfox]

I really like the nair OoS explanation honestly; like... some of these grabs are *ridiculously* well timed, and I can't believe it's mashing.

I'll pay attention more to *Which* characters are doing this to me, thanks guys.

 

[FoxLisk]

I really like the nair OoS explanation honestly; like... some of these grabs are *ridiculously* well timed, and I can't believe it's mashing.

I'll pay attention more to *Which* characters are doing this to me, thanks guys.

I mean, I appreciate your spirit of observation, but whether or not shield grabs can be buffered is an easily testable thing in an emu so let's just call out magus magus420 strongbad strong bad strong_bad and see what they already know.

 

[crush]

strongbad strong.bad strong_bad _bad donkeykong donkey_kong donkey kong randomDKmain159 project:m projectm sucks project_m sucks project m is _bad bad frame_things my_child donkey_kong_porn gay_monkeys

He should be here soon

 

[GHNeko]

my troll senses are tingling

 

[Druggedfox]

I totally agree with the sentiment, foxlisk xDD

Someone who actually has ways to test this stuff tell me things please

 

[V3ctorMan]

You should slow down your play a bit, honestly. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to do so permanently or anything (I understand how you and axe like playing). The thing is... you're sacrificing a *lot* of precision on various things (jump shines, some pressure, certain combos) by trying to go too fast. If you would slow down your play and get everything completely right and precise, then slowly pick it back up to its current speed, I think you'd get to play how you want to *and* you'd do a lot better.

haha, I understand, what you are saying, and yes you're indeed right.. I did used to post for mainly to showcase, but I'm at a point where I REALLY think i can get my Falco up to top notch play, and I want to see if I can do it... Of course I still have my Yoshi goals, (i wanna place better than I did at Pound V) and of course, I have my Roy goals too.. but Falco getting a top notch one, is surprisingly up there as well... Idk why, but i've been reinspired, so honestly I'm looking for any/all advice I can get... I'll be asking MANY questions... ^^

i find it difficult to critique AZ vids because anything you say gets chalked up to "well thats just our playstyle we like doign those things"

which is fine. But its impossible to give a normal critique of "you could be doing this better, choosing this option etc" because its not a lack of skill. they are playing that way on purpose. so im just like.... =/

I understand what you are saying here, and that's fine... I'm not sure about Axe, but I'm actually trying to develop a way that I can play fast like this, and maintain, and gain, a valuable amount of knowledge, on combos etc, in the Falco ditto matchup, and vs other high tiers in general... I mean do you guys think it's possible to keep a speed rate high and develop a high level entertaining Falco like this? I want to at least try, and very badly... n_n; Idk I feel, I could be like idk a high level and fun Falco to watch or something.. ^^

AZ's playstyle is good for Melee. Those guys are so damn fun to watch. Just watch it, have fun, don't critique, even if they ask, IMO . Like, Vman, you're doing everything almost perfect bro, just do more double shines and try to break someone's shield with platform drop canceled bairs.

Haha, if you mean that it means alot saying that AZ's playstyle is fun for melee.. it's always nice to hear that... I want to develop a way, that I can maintain entertainment like this, but also develop a very smart, fast, vast knowledge of character and matchups, without losing too much of my playstyle... so honestly anything helps ^^; Ever since I went to the low tiers, i'm sure my Falco game has deteriorated, but I want to make a run at him, for one of the best ones... I'm not saying I expect to get there, but I'm sure going to try ^^

@puff:
shes 5th or worse.

peach outperforms her by ****loads.


@Vman: You need to work on your punishment/pressure game. It felt like it was all neutral game lol, and you didn't manage to get a single good combo in tbh.

fun to watch tho.

Haha, thanks Leffen, I'm glad I can at least entertain you , hopefully I can get the entertainment part and the top level/smart part down too.. ^^ ummmm, gimme some tips on what you think is a solid pressure game, I'm open and would love to hear your thoughts and honestly everyone's thoughts... I HONESTLY want to get my Falco up there... I'm nearly as dedicated for Falco that I was for Yoshi at Pound V, I really wanna turn some heads... or at least try ^^ so please everyone help me out with anything you all can... I'd appreciate it so much..

For those of you that didn't see yet...

This set is a falco ditto from the earlier page - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdh7IIX3ZQ0

However I'll be uploading more vs variety of more characters, so hopefully everyone here will be able to help me out more and stuff.. I REALLY wanna get him into top level format.. I appreciate it again everyone. <3

FINAL NOTE: Apex is so close.. can't wait to see many of you.. Watch out for my

Spoiler

Roy, I'm gonna hopefully put in some work with him ^^

, hehe maybe..

 

[Composeur]

i dont see armada getting higher than 3rd

Always with the Armada hate you go. Oy vey!

You'll see.

Miss you btw <3

 

[Divinokage]

Vectorman, you can't lose your fun playstyle. I find it that it's very rare for someone to drastically change playstyles along the road to become better because your thought process and how you view the game won't change that much. All you are doing is getting better in the way you think is right, there's no one else that can tell you otherwise because they really aren't doing it for you lol. I mean obviously there's always things that can be done better but you know.. =P From the beginning of my journey, I don't think I've ever lost my nonsensical style, I've always wanted to be an aggressive Ganon, so basically you can be what you want to be. And that means you'll be a fun Falco for sure. =)

 

[Warhawk]

Do you never change your playstyle from friendlies to tourney matches though, Kage? Or even change it for different matchups?

 

[Divinokage]

From friendly to tournament. Umm.. well in general I will probably be less risky and do things to kill the opponent as fast as possible in tournament. In friendlies, I don't mind going way out there off-stage and do funny stuff/experiment.. I think that's pretty much the only thing that changes for me, my general approach is pretty much the same. As for match-ups, I just switch out which moves will come out in certain situations that is thrown at me. Like let's say Peach is floating in front of me, then I can either do upair or upwards Ftilt to stop the float or upcoming Fair. I'm very instinctual and reactive which is why my style won't really change. And also I try to guess a lot by being pretty close to my enemy, I personally like to be in a position of close combat to force my enemy to play my game. Sometimes, of course there's no other way but to wait far away but in general that's how I am. If I could say it simply, I could say I use war strategies to try to win. lol.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

kages post holds a lot of truth for me as well.

he's also better at it than me though.

not that it matters lol. i'm just another ganon

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, those reasons are more or less of why I thought that Falco beat Puff, because he has excellent control of the stage compared to her. But I've been thinking more about how Puff should handle spacies, and for now, I've rested on the MU being even (no pun intended). She's really good at randomly turning the tides off of one read (better than Falco, imo), and WD OoS is really good for escaping pressure and reversing situations (Hbox used it against you a few times in your MM at To7). Those are just a few things.

I've also been using her more, and while my own performance doesn't mean anything, I can look at my matches, and figure out how she controls space/applies pressure in her own way.

I think that Puff is easy to pick up, but the moment you take her to even mid-levels, you get *****. It's really hard to shake pressure and apply pressure with her at higher levels, just as it is for ANY character. Saying that she's easy where it MATTERS is dumb. But yeah, she's OP for bodying noobs.

I'm also never sure of where to put her on the tier list. I used to think below Sheik. But I'm not sure. She just seems to get an absurd amount of profit from being really smart, probably cause she's not technical. So I guess she's easy in that sense.

 

[Blistering Speed]

This thread disgusts me.

 

[Paju]

he's not even getting second in Sweden, lol.

It's awesome how Americans can't make difference between Finland and Sweden

 

[Pi]

It's awesome how Americans can't make difference between Finland and Sweden

who cares they're basically the same state

 

[King Funk]

Battlecow is just totally in love with Leffen.

Look at all the posts he dedicates to the swedish 12-year old prodigy!

 

[Bones0]

Lets get back to shield dropping for a sec. Can bones or leffen (or anyone) tell me something:

is it easier to Shield drop if you light shield?
For some reason i NEVER get te drop if i full shield. I can occasionally do it if I only slightly hit the trigger (light shield) is that a legic mechanic or am I trippin?

also, I'm like 10 times more consistent if I use R than if I use L 0_o

The size of your shield only affects shield dropping when you are getting hit (because larger shields have more shield stun, making it slightly easier to buffer).

I actually use R (light shielded) for shield drops out of dashes because it doesn't waste my tech, plus it lets me L-cancel if I drop through with an aerial (I can L-cancel shield dropped aerials with L, but it's a little tougher to release and repress L in that small window of time). If you're doing shield drops out of dashes correctly, it shouldn't even matter if you light or hard shield because you will drop through before your shield even has time to shrink.

 

[Strong Badam]

Has Crush been saying much on this page? I ignored him like a month ago and it seems people are responding to him

Shieldgrabs aren't bufferable

 

[GHNeko]

And now i have a reason to unsubscribe.

 

[FoxLisk]

Always with the Armada hate you go. Oy vey!

You'll see.

Miss you btw <3

hehe we'll see

i miss you too! come visit. are you going to Apex?

 

[Moooose]

so two things i dont see
when marth throws you off, lots of people like to shine stall then wait to see what marth does, then either jump with aerial or jump then air dodge. problem is, marth can bait either of those then wd back and punish. BUT if you jump with a laser or even double laser(not sure if that works) you'll beat that. actually it might just be straight up better except when marth comes down to gimp you.

then another thing is...when you're comboing and you're following them from one of the middle platforms to the top platform, say after a shine....traditionally you have the two options of wavelanding or shine wavelanding onto the platform or double jumping above to bait a dash attack, but that gets predicted pretty easily. one way to bait the getup attack is by making them think youre gonna wd on. you can do this by short hopping toward the top platform, then staying in your shine until they getup attack, then hit them after. its kind of like what mango does with his up-b, but its better.

 

[Sinji]

Has Crush been saying much on this page? I ignored him like a month ago and it seems people are responding to him

I know right. People are treating crush like a god after seeing him at ROM 4. I wonder how the community will look at me after I beat him at Apex. hehe.

 

[genkaku]

falco = gay
fox = gay
puff = gay
peach = gay
sheik = gay
marth = gay
ICs = gay
falcon = legit

well crap.

 

[ShroudedOne]

This thread disgusts me.

Awww. Sorry.

falco = gay
fox = gay
puff = gay
peach = gay
sheik = gay
marth = gay
ICs = gay
falcon = gay

well crap.

Fixed.

 

[Divinokage]

I know right. People are treating crush like a god after seeing him at ROM 4. I wonder how the community will look at me after I beat him at Apex. hehe.

Lol you think it's skill that people think that way?

Hint: The kids are the future.

 

[JPOBS]

so two things i dont see
when marth throws you off, lots of people like to shine stall then wait to see what marth does, then either jump with aerial or jump then air dodge. problem is, marth can bait either of those then wd back and punish. BUT if you jump with a laser or even double laser(not sure if that works) you'll beat that. actually it might just be straight up better except when marth comes down to gimp you.

then another thing is...when you're comboing and you're following them from one of the middle platforms to the top platform, say after a shine....traditionally you have the two options of wavelanding or shine wavelanding onto the platform or double jumping above to bait a dash attack, but that gets predicted pretty easily. one way to bait the getup attack is by making them think youre gonna wd on. you can do this by short hopping toward the top platform, then staying in your shine until they getup attack, then hit them after. its kind of like what mango does with his up-b, but its better.

Both of these tricks are neat.

When marth throws me off at low percent I usually just go for the double jump sweet spot, or the shine stall->DJ sweetspot. the shine stall prevent him from coming down to get you (because you dont jump into his fair or w/e) and the sweet spot prevent him from getting you with shenanigans like WD. The only way to stop this from what I can tell is a hard read by the marth to throw you off and take the ledge immediately. But doing that loses to pretty much anything else you do, so most marths wont ever take the ledge unless the hog will kill you directly.

Ya the shine thing is great for baiting get up attack. full hop over them and shine stall above them, bait the get up and then ****.
This is also really good for when you're coming down with no jumps. shine stall or firebird to not get *****.

 

[Sinji]

@Kage: lol No, i don't think its skill. People are just amazed to see a 12 year old play this game. I was surprised when I found out he was a 12 year old. When crush joined smashboards and started trolling me, I thought he was this 23 year old Chubby fat guy that simply trolls. He would simply post after me on every single thread. It was so annoying. I have the invisible mode on now just like M2k simply because crush is trolling me that doesn't seem to work either. Yea I agree with you, kids are the future and I would like to teach my 8 year old cousin the game one day when he is ready to learn. But I guaretee you when he joins smashboards he won't troll. I just think he is overrated. The fact that only three people knew about the MM between me and him and all of a sudden the match was put on blast 3 months ago on a thread. I felt disgusted. I just can't wait to beat him at Apex so he can shut up. I honestly don't care if the community will look at me as an enemy after I beat him. I'll show no mercy in the MM.

 

[crush]

@Kage: lol No, i don't think its skill. People are just amazed to see a 12 year old play this game. I was surprised when I found out he was a 12 year old. When crush joined smashboards and started trolling me, I thought he was this 23 year old Chubby fat guy that simply trolls. He would simply post after me on every single thread. It was so annoying. I have the invisible mode on now just like M2k simply because crush is trolling me that doesn't seem to work either. Yea I agree with you, kids are the future and I would like to teach my 8 year old cousin the game one day when he is ready to learn. But I guaretee you when he joins smashboards he won't troll. I just think he is overrated. The fact that only three people knew about the MM between me and him and all of a sudden the match was put on blast 3 months ago on a thread. I felt disgusted. I just can't wait to beat him at Apex so he can shut up. I honestly don't care if the community will look at me as an enemy after I beat him. I'll show no mercy in the MM.

do they have cartoons in jamaica
more importantly: do they have christmas in jamaica?

 

[leffen]

jbobs-you can actually jab/dtilt etc your sweetspot, its just hard to do if you don't do it much. Top level marths punish you for taking the edge everytime though.

 

[Bones0]

If you are going to go for a DJ sweet spot, at least do the up-B stall. You can grab it from further away so if they want to jab or dtilt they have to be a bit closer. It's also faster since you can grab it as you rise instead of jumping and waiting to reach the peak of your DJ.