Mahone
Smash Champion
oh ****, i didn't even think of that....
ya, just do that everytime. Falco wins. DONE.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
ya, just do that everytime. Falco wins. DONE.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Mahone
Smash Champion
edit: nevermind
Veetaak
Smash Lord
Can you powershield a laser back and forth forever? If so, I would like to see it done in an action replay.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I wonder if that can be done point blank. lol.
Cyrain
Smash Ace
To be fair, I am really ****ing good at powershielding,(also very modest) even when people are varying laser heights. Pretty sure PP, Darksyde and Druggedfox would back me up one that (if druggedfox remembers our set a TO6) but yea, varying the height does make it more difficult. Powershielding IS a huge help against falco though and I think more people should practice it. Nothing better than a falco jumping forward with a laser, only to catch it right back in his face as you dash up and grab his ***. =D
Veetaak
Smash Lord
I had huge problems dealing with a marth main a while ago because he PSed so many lasers and just ran in and grabbed me after the PS. He didn't even say a word, he sat there like a robot the whole session xD
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
I'd definitely vouch. The last few times I played you (Apex, TO6, G6?) I caught half of my lasers flying back at me, even when I varied the heights/delayed them. I recall having to reorient how I was playing and doing a lot more empty SH's and grabs and it being incredibly difficult. Fox's speed + your best approach tool becoming unreliable/really dangerous = :[
D
Deleted member
Guest
You'd lose the argument.
Falco beating Fox is not about just you or the Falco players doing more to win in the match-up. The top Falco players have consistently beat the top Fox players for the last 6 years. Pretty much all of them. In the face of observation and ample amounts of evidence, the smash theory you dole out about the match-up may even be 100% correct and you would still be wrong. This is one of the many, many reasons that no one wins at Super Theory Bros.
edit: the ultimate irony here is that you're the only person that can't even prove me wrong, since we can't find a falco of your caliber to pit your fox against.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I'd like to prove you wrong, but I got to this video and holy ****ing ****:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhIa6kxjJqs
Vs players who are adept with the powershield I will usually just shoot a low laser short hop over with a high laser and continue playing like nothing ever happened. Cause, as far as the powershield is concerned, nothing ever happened.
also, fast falling the laser so that your gun clicks but makes no projectile is a good way to force pepole to shield and then they have the awkwardness of dropping their shield before being able to power shield again.
Fsmash
also, fast falling the laser so that your gun clicks but makes no projectile is a good way to force pepole to shield and then they have the awkwardness of dropping their shield before being able to power shield again.
Fsmash
Niko45
Smash Master
See, this post makes sense to me but you'll also say things like Marth is still the best/tied for best character even though Marth has done nothing but suck complete *** for the past 3 (going on 4) years. So what's the cutoff? 6 years? 5 years? When do we scrap the theory and give in to the results?
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
while i mostly agree with you, there is a sizable difference in that there is a severe lack of representation of marth players to go along with said evidence, not sure how much this impacts it.
_wzrd
Smash Journeyman
although i tend to agree that marth isn't tied for 1 anymore, i still think he has potential.
we really don't have enough players, let alone enough players pushing the envelope.
m2k has been on top of marth forever, until someone reaches his level & exceeds it, or figures out how to deal with the current wave of top players marth will be growing only slightly.
falco on the hand, has had a NUMBER of players pushing the potential of the char past his current limits. a few have been considered the best only to be exceeded by the next falco, causing a rapid growth for him imo.
but what do i know LOL im some random from hawaii
we really don't have enough players, let alone enough players pushing the envelope.
m2k has been on top of marth forever, until someone reaches his level & exceeds it, or figures out how to deal with the current wave of top players marth will be growing only slightly.
falco on the hand, has had a NUMBER of players pushing the potential of the char past his current limits. a few have been considered the best only to be exceeded by the next falco, causing a rapid growth for him imo.
but what do i know LOL im some random from hawaii
D
Deleted member
Guest
Marth being the best is my opinion. I'd never try to factually argue it because I know better. I also think Fox vs Falco is pretty even. You're still allowed to have your own opinions, just acknowledge when they differ from simple observation.
There are just far fewer Marth players today than there used to be. Back in 06-07 there was ken, azen, m2k who were all at the top level with some other notable regional players.
Since then people just aren't really using him beside m2k, who needs to use marth more.
Since then people just aren't really using him beside m2k, who needs to use marth more.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
What're you talking about cyrain, you didn't powershield a single laser in that 3rd game on DL64...
JPOBS
Smash Hero
The points you made YS/FoD are almost completely backwards as I see it.
especially this sentence "On FoD YS and DL, Falco has to play more risky to get anything started versus Fox."
smaller stage = less room for fox to move = less risk for falco to initiate attack.
the height and width of the platforms on yoshis and fod make them perfect for falco to control at will with uptilts, bairs, upairs, fairs, and pretty much whatever the **** falco feels like. He doesn;t have to predict where fox is going, fox has no where to go. Prediction plays a much much bigger role on Dreamland, PS and to a lesser extent BF because of the size of the stage.
So yea, your reasoning for why stages are good in the matchup is completely backwards as far as i see it.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
What ever happened to PC Chris?
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
dang i didnt know he made the switch that early, thought it was a bit after that.
he still plays with the westchester county players casually but doesn't really go to tournies (not sure if that will change).
Max?
Smash Champion
Pretty much.
He says he's down to go to locals but when I bring it up to him he has other **** to do, can't blame him. Westchester as a whole is most likely going to Genesis tho.
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
This is where you're wrong in my opinion, but as soon as a reputable player agrees with me, you're going to suck their ****, so I'll just leave it at that.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
Not really. I could give a **** about what Reputable PlayerA has to say about whether he agrees with you or not. I'm not disagreeing with you just because you're the one saying it. If you haven't noticed, I also disagreed with Cyrain's selections for who wins and which stage.
My opinion on the stage dependency in this matchup are formed based on my personal experience, as well as many conversations with reputable players in my region. I'm sure its the same case for you. So I will leave it at that.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Counter examples of Fox vs top level Falco (aka Kevin):
Mango's Fox is the only Fox at the top top level and I've seen it do work on Kevin at several different nationals when they played. Kevin has a ton more to say about Mango's Fox so I'll let him elaborate if he so chooses.
Jman 2-0'd Kevin at Apex in Winner's (lost to him in Losers though but still) and tends to beat tristate Falco's (as well as still win most of their tournaments when he's in practice barring Hax winning).
Colbol also is stupid good at the matchup and 3 stocked Kevin at TO6 on Dreamland.
The fact is, the Fox's that have kept up with the metagame (Mango/Jman/Colbol/Lucky/Unknown/Cyrain etc) have definitely challenged the evidence in the last year or so. There is still a lot to be proved tourney result wise though, I agree.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
lmfao darksyde's sig 
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
I can't bear to change it yet because it makes me laugh soooo much. I knew exactly what he meant to type but I agreed even more with his typo.
Cyrain
Smash Ace
Mwahahahaha, I'm glad you remember. I was SO ****ING SALTY that both you and PP took me to PS and beat me with falco at that tourney. I had nothing but anger in my heart when we went to DL64 xD Soooo tired of losing to falcos on what used to be my favorite fox stage. That's okay though, I'm a falco main now son. Yeeeee.What're you talking about cyrain, you didn't powershield a single laser in that 3rd game on DL64...
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Going towards the bird now eh? Just another bird to punch.. yay! =D
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6Pj-eB8sxY#t=00m05s
I actually recommend that everyone watch this. Your mind will be blown.
Lightsyde
Smash Champion
Lmfao shield break what
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
^That reminds me, I did 69% with a laser yesterday... 
?
@Cyrain
Are you banning Stadium now? You switching to falco better be a joke; you're too good at fox >_>
?@Cyrain
Are you banning Stadium now? You switching to falco better be a joke; you're too good at fox >_>
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Falco has a slight advantage versus Fox on PS so it's understandable that you lost.
I think most, if not all falco players probably have known about this since at least 2005. I know it was one of the first things I experimented with once I learned how to SHL.
TheDekuNut
Smash Journeyman
the laser can only travel for a certain amount of distance. standing roughly the entire length of final destination you can power shield a laser 3 times before it disappears. if you stand closer together you can power shield it more times. i'll post a vid later maybe
Beat!
Smash Master
K, so a few hours ago, my friend and I saw something extremely weird while playing.
DL64, I was Falco, he was Luigi. He stood on the top platform, used down-B, and fell off while doing it. I jumped off the left platform, interrupted his down-B with a laser... and all of a sudden, he was back on the top platform. He wasn't even near it when my laser hit him. It was as if my laser had instantly sent him back in time a few seconds. We tried to recreate it, but gave up after a few attempts.
So, does anyone know wtf happened?
DL64, I was Falco, he was Luigi. He stood on the top platform, used down-B, and fell off while doing it. I jumped off the left platform, interrupted his down-B with a laser... and all of a sudden, he was back on the top platform. He wasn't even near it when my laser hit him. It was as if my laser had instantly sent him back in time a few seconds. We tried to recreate it, but gave up after a few attempts.
So, does anyone know wtf happened?
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
Cyrain
Smash Ace
@Kage, I'll bust out my fox to whoop you next time we play
@DruggedFox Nah, no joke. I've been trying to convert to maining falco for a long time, but I always lose confidence in him and use fox for important matches. I literally never use him anymore though. He bores me to tears. I did 10 hours of smash practice the other day and used him for maybe 10 or so matches at most. I may start banning PS if I fail to find confidence in my falco and instead end up using fox. The way I figure it is I'll get camped the same on FD, so I may as well ban PS and if I get CP'd to FD then I can CG them. Honestly, I HATE CG'ing space animals and I think it completely ruins the fox v fox or fox v falco matchup, but if it really comes down to it, I'll do what I need to if it means going farther in a tournament.
@Rubyiris i know falco has an advantage there. I was just getting frustrated and rushing at them and getting ***** for it.
@DruggedFox Nah, no joke. I've been trying to convert to maining falco for a long time, but I always lose confidence in him and use fox for important matches. I literally never use him anymore though. He bores me to tears. I did 10 hours of smash practice the other day and used him for maybe 10 or so matches at most. I may start banning PS if I fail to find confidence in my falco and instead end up using fox. The way I figure it is I'll get camped the same on FD, so I may as well ban PS and if I get CP'd to FD then I can CG them. Honestly, I HATE CG'ing space animals and I think it completely ruins the fox v fox or fox v falco matchup, but if it really comes down to it, I'll do what I need to if it means going farther in a tournament.
@Rubyiris i know falco has an advantage there. I was just getting frustrated and rushing at them and getting ***** for it.