PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dark Hart]

Kevin I was up all hours of the night and you never came down to play me like you said you would

Not even to check up on me

Me and my terrified bunny heart rate

****ing 160 bpm

as fast as your Falco

EDIT: On a related note, I too also agree that nair is a good option after an up throw vs fastfaller, it's just much better for attempting to put someone in an edge-guarding position

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yo Dr. Peepee

I don't play a lot of Melee (64 man m'self)

But I came over here to check out your thread, and was glad to see that you were repping the Captain America Avvy, the "Team USA" thing, and the "America" location. You're a great American. Never give in to the forces of socialistic hipster antiamerican douchebaggery. I'm proud to share a country with you.

I'm proud that you're proud of America. Uncle Sam salutes you.

Kevin I was up all hours of the night and you never came down to play me like you said you would

Not even to check up on me

Me and my terrified bunny heart rate

****ing 160 bpm

as fast as your Falco

EDIT: On a related note, I too also agree that nair is a good option after an up throw vs fastfaller, it's just much better for attempting to put someone in an edge-guarding position

I was busy being what I have decided to call "Red Falco." My bad bro.

And yeah I've seen some Falcos do that Uthrow Nair but I just know the %s and situations....I don't think it's a good idea every time though and I don't do it much on FF'ers but I could play around with it.

 

[Dark Hart]

It's a good mix-up, I've been doing a lot of up-throw -> shineturnaroundbair too if they DI high in front of me (the shine isn't meant to hit and is used purely for turning around to get the bair to hit)

iunno, I've always like up-throw with Falco, it just puts the opponent in a bad position imo

Also I've been experimenting with edge-cancels and boy that makes Falco sooooooo much faster

EDIT: Also me and Josh had a Fox vs Falco debate the other night... I still think Falco wins lol and apparently since i think that it means I don't understand Melee or something...

 

[Lightsyde]

Hey Lucas, post about it more threads. I had already forgotten about it.

Fox definitely beats Falco, in my opinion. I have a long list of reasons which I will happily explain in full detail in person. Not starting this debate, don't even want to talk about it.

/resume thread

 

[choknater]

i think east coast is getting way better than us now.. i see that pp and m2k are in the same region, hbox is down there, and i just saw hax jman finals vids and they both got better... so godlike

wc needs to step it up

i need to step it up. let's do this

 

[ChivalRuse]

Even if that's the case, it's as HBox said: "WC randoms >>>>>> EC randoms." Or something along those lines.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm...idk about the rest of the coast, but NC "randoms" are improving rapidly.

 

[Ocean]

randoms aren't the ones who matter.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hold your tongue! Randoms are the backbone of the community.

 

[tarheeljks]

Hold your tongue! Randoms are the backbone of the community.

fact

10char

 

[choknater]

yeah norcal randoms are pretty godlike lol

ppl are gonna learn who lord is soon

 

[Dark Hart]

Hey Lucas, post about it more threads. I had already forgotten about it.

Fox definitely beats Falco, in my opinion. I have a long list of reasons which I will happily explain in full detail in person. Not starting this debate, don't even want to talk about it.

/resume thread

I mean this was like... the only thread lol

and the only reason I posted it is because me and Kevin have this debate all the time

back a couple years ago when we talked more often it came up at least once a convo

so yea, don't get butthurt over me trying to get Kevin to explain what you meant since I know he shares you're thoughts on the match-up

oh... and **** you or something

 

[Mogwai]

take it to PMs or the NC Social Threads boys. This is a Falco thread and I really don't think anyone cares about Dark Hart and Darksyde's personal issues. Consider this a warning to both of you.

EDIT: also it's your, not "you're"

 

[#HBC | Mac]

EDIT: also it's your, not "you're"

Got em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lightsyde]

take it to PMs or the NC Social Threads boys. This is a Falco thread and I really don't think anyone cares about Dark Hart and Darksyde's personal issues. Consider this a warning to both of you.

EDIT: also it's your, not "you're"

Lmao it definitely isn't a personal issue. Lucas is my buddy and was just trying to get Kevin to talk about it here. It was related to Falco vs Fox, so it wasn't even off topic. I do realize that you don't speak NC though so I understand you thinking that. haha

Also saying "NC" and "Social thread" is redundant. ;]

And hell yeah, grammar corrections are what's up.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Having opinions on matchups is hard for me because my thoughts change and I can never fully test out what my opponent can do that I want to(usually).

I still think Fox beats Falco though. =p

 

[Dark Hart]

Sorry about my horrible grammar

 

[unknown522]

i think east coast is getting way better than us now.. i see that pp and m2k are in the same region, hbox is down there, and i just saw hax jman finals vids and they both got better... so godlike

wc needs to step it up

i need to step it up. let's do this

From what I head, Jman and Hax were both high when they played those sets (oh and cactuar's matches too). Jman looked terrible in those vids, not gonna lie.

I thought it was just rust though.

 

[Ryan-K]

I still think Fox beats Falco though. =p

i've always agreed with this

i mean fox is pretty much a better falco except instead of lasers and dair he has usmash and ridiculous grabs and a better recovery..

 

[stingers]

pp's gay as **** in 64. **** that mario

 

[linkoninja]

So I've always wanted to play Falco ever since I first saw Zhu do crazy shine-B-Airs and other things of that nature. I know the basics of melee (shffl, jc grab, di, etc) but I want to work on character specifics for Falco. How do you do all that crazy mulit-shine stuff. Also I can Shine-Bair a little bit but often times I accidentally throw out a F-Air or something, so how do you guys do it?

 

[FoxLisk]

i've always agreed with this

i mean fox is pretty much a better falco except instead of lasers and dair he has usmash and ridiculous grabs and a better recovery..

yeah dude fox is pretty much a better falco except instead of falco's whole gameplan he has fox's whole gameplan

@linkoninja

how do we do it? years and years of practice.

dont practice multishines yet. practice moving faster after everything you do. i promise you're not moving as fast as you can yet. get faster.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

From what I head, Jman and Hax were both high when they played those sets

LMAAAAAAAAAAO

that's hilarious and ****

 

[tarheeljks]

yeah dude fox is pretty much a better falco except instead of falco's whole gameplan he has fox's whole gameplan

@linkoninja

how do we do it? years and years of practice.

dont practice multishines yet. practice moving faster after everything you do. i promise you're not moving as fast as you can yet. get faster.

agree w/this. practice basic stuff like

-- keeping your lasers low,
-- being able to reverse laser/laser on the move (kind of lol that i'm saying this given how apt i am to forget falco has a gun)
-- shffling on shields vs bodies so as not to get shieldgrabbed. also delaying the aerial
-- not getting stuck in shines; being able to short hop or wavedash out of them is prob the most advanced tech to perfect when beginning to play falco

and then as foxlisk said, being able to chain these techs is extremely important. when i started playing again i know i felt just fine moving around while practicing tech, but it was a mirage. you get on a stage w/someone w/real command over their character and realize that you can't move as fast/instinctively as you need to which makes it difficult to space yourself properly. then you get *****

 

[JPOBS]

yeah dude fox is pretty much a better falco except instead of falco's whole gameplan he has fox's whole gameplan

i lol'd at this

I think Falco beats fox. This is an age old discussion, but for me, the proof lies in the fact that falco's have historically dominated the matchup.

which either means falco players have just always been better than their counterparts at the time (possible), or Falco is just better and it shows.

 

[Dr Peepee]

pp's gay as **** in 64. **** that mario

LOL dude I don't even play that game. =p

i lol'd at this

I think Falco beats fox. This is an age old discussion, but for me, the proof lies in the fact that falco's have historically dominated the matchup.

which either means falco players have just always been better than their counterparts at the time (possible), or Falco is just better and it shows.

What about better at that matchup in particular?

At any rate, I prefer theory on the matchup(as theory can be constantly up to date unlike data as well as I use theory for everything so it's a consistency thing lol). That's a totally different matter in itself but it never hurts to go through the motions lol.

 

[cheeseball341]

So I went to my first ever melee tourny on the weekend (normally play 64) and used Falco. I made it out of pools but then went 0-2 on brackets.

What I found was that while I could comfortably put damage on them, I could not kill at all. This would make me freak out and I'd just start throwing out random forward smashes everywhere, giving them easy kills/punishes =(

So, what are falco's best kill moves, and how do I combo into them?

 

[JPOBS]

What about better at that matchup in particular?

At any rate, I prefer theory on the matchup(as theory can be constantly up to date unlike data as well as I use theory for everything so it's a consistency thing lol). That's a totally different matter in itself but it never hurts to go through the motions lol.

Well yea thats what I meant, I did mean in that particular matchup. I feel like throughout history falco has largely won the matchup because of the presence of you, shiz, chops and zhu. or atleast the last 4 years anyway. anything pre-2007 is kinda iffy to discuss the the overall lack of vids, tourny results and nationwide travel makes it hard to compare efficiently.

I'd get into theory but I've got major work to do. maybe tomorrow or some other time it inevitably comes up lol

 

[Beat!]

Rule of thumb:

Fox mains: "Falco wins"

Falco mains: "Fox wins"

And this is applicable to the other top tiers too.

Some exceptions here and there, but like I said, it's just a rule of thumb.

Everyone needs to start putting their personal bias aside.

 

[Veetaak]

So I've always wanted to play Falco ever since I first saw Zhu do crazy shine-B-Airs and other things of that nature. I know the basics of melee (shffl, jc grab, di, etc) but I want to work on character specifics for Falco. How do you do all that crazy mulit-shine stuff. Also I can Shine-Bair a little bit but often times I accidentally throw out a F-Air or something, so how do you guys do it?

I myself jump with the grey control stick when I shine-->DJ bair with the left hand and I press b and the c-stick with my right hand.
So it's like: Jump-->shine-->pull the grey control stick upwards (with my left hand) and slam the c-stick (with my right hand) to the back-air side. I find this way the easiest and fastest.

 

[chak]

So I've always wanted to play Falco ever since I first saw Zhu do crazy shine-B-Airs and other things of that nature. I know the basics of melee (shffl, jc grab, di, etc) but I want to work on character specifics for Falco. How do you do all that crazy mulit-shine stuff. Also I can Shine-Bair a little bit but often times I accidentally throw out a F-Air or something, so how do you guys do it?

make sure you jump before you aerial so you don't turn around in your shine

 

[linkoninja]

agree w/this. practice basic stuff like

-- keeping your lasers low,
-- being able to reverse laser/laser on the move (kind of lol that i'm saying this given how apt i am to forget falco has a gun)
-- shffling on shields vs bodies so as not to get shieldgrabbed. also delaying the aerial
-- not getting stuck in shines; being able to short hop or wavedash out of them is prob the most advanced tech to perfect when beginning to play falco

and then as foxlisk said, being able to chain these techs is extremely important. when i started playing again i know i felt just fine moving around while practicing tech, but it was a mirage. you get on a stage w/someone w/real command over their character and realize that you can't move as fast/instinctively as you need to which makes it difficult to space yourself properly. then you get *****

Right now I can't play Falco in friendlies because I can't kill at all >.< that's why I want to learn to JC Shines so that I won't be stuck in shines while I'm in a match. I can shoot lasers decently, and I can do aerials decently. I just need to practice more on delaying and shielding.

 

[Bones0]

So I went to my first ever melee tourny on the weekend (normally play 64) and used Falco. I made it out of pools but then went 0-2 on brackets.

What I found was that while I could comfortably put damage on them, I could not kill at all. This would make me freak out and I'd just start throwing out random forward smashes everywhere, giving them easy kills/punishes =(

So, what are falco's best kill moves, and how do I combo into them?

Are you me from the past? O_O Seriously had the exact issue you are talking about. If you can, analyze some of your videos. Personally, I was just shine dair pillaring until they got away. You will often want to substitute bairs in for dairs once they get to certain percent. Even if the combo doesn't last as long, they will get knocked off the stage and this puts you in control over where they have to move. From there, you just read and punish. A lot of it is just realizing the situations where you have good opportunities. Another common thing that happened to me is I would dair people on the ground and always dair them a second time. Sometimes that's the best option, but keep an eye out for how high they are. Dair -> fsmash is really useful and safe. Aside from that, I would just suggest watching videos and when you see them get a kill, go back and find how what position each player was in, what move the Falco used to KO them, and anything else that can help you figure out what you aren't doing enough of (or doing too much of). Also try and focus on how good your edgeguarding is. Perhaps you are getting them off fine, but if they just recover over and over, you just need to change up how you're edgeguarding.

 

[tarheeljks]

friendlies are the best place to practice

 

[Dr Peepee]

So I went to my first ever melee tourny on the weekend (normally play 64) and used Falco. I made it out of pools but then went 0-2 on brackets.

What I found was that while I could comfortably put damage on them, I could not kill at all. This would make me freak out and I'd just start throwing out random forward smashes everywhere, giving them easy kills/punishes =(

So, what are falco's best kill moves, and how do I combo into them?

Dsmash- platform tech chases or a Nair or something on FF'ers at low-mid %s. Sends at a low angle but you'll probably have to still edgeguard(like with most of these "kill moves")

Fsmash- tech chases/CC'ing getup attacks or something silly like jab setup. any baited shield grab or roll/spotdodge can be punished with this too.

Dtilt- good as an approach/tech chase on floaties at higher % to kill them off the top. Good at shield stabbing since it hits low. Can't really combo into this beyond a Dair spike tech chase on the ground as far as I know.

Bair- can't combo into this either but hitting someone into the air is usually a good reason to use this since it beats a lot of stuff and hits the opponent offstage with reasonable knockback. this move can be used in a lot of situations except combos I guess lol.

Dair- other dairs can set this up, or shines can, or uptilts, or weak aerials or strong fairs, or dash attacks, or jabs I guess lol. dair *****.

Rule of thumb:

Fox mains: "Falco wins"

Falco mains: "Fox wins"

And this is applicable to the other top tiers too.

Some exceptions here and there, but like I said, it's just a rule of thumb.

Everyone needs to start putting their personal bias aside.

I'd argue with any Fox main/player about this matchup.

The laser is not as unbeatable as it seems. Fox can still DD in plenty of positions and abuse his speed regardless.

friendlies are the best place to practice

word

 

[SSBM_or_GTFO]

friendlies are the best place to practice

Unless your me and have no one to fight and can only practice tech skill. /practices double shine -> wavedash

A quesiton, is late Nair/Bair to shine grab guaranteed? Or is there an opening for someone to buffer a roll? Just seems to me that it wouldn't be very feasible to say that a player could roll out of it if they weren't expecting it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

They'd have to expect it to roll away but they could if they were ready.

At the very least they could buffer a spotdodge I think.

I've even been shield grabbed out of mine before(this has happened to others as well).

 

[Bones0]

I know they can buffer a spot dodge (which gets ***** by shield pressure anyway), but for rolls I think they get grabbed if they try to roll because of the 4 frames of startup where they can still get attacked. I could be wrong though.

 

[Druggedfox]

Does nobody think falco/fox is an even matchup? >______>

 

[Dr Peepee]

Chops and maybe Shiz think so lol last I heard.