Peach Weekly Match-Up Rediscussion: Diddy Kong

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Now that's out of the way...this rediscussion will be dedicated to:

Diddy Kong

About time too

 

[mountain_tiger]

IMO, the matchup is around 60:40 in Peach's favour.

As we all know, a big part of Diddy's metagame is his bananas and their various techs. Now, if you get caught in a banana combo, then you're in a spot of bother, but there's an easy way to avoid it. Bananas will not trip Peach when she's floating. You still take some damage, but you can't get banana locked or anything. In fact, as well as avoiding the bananas, you can use an auto-cancelled Nair to pick them up without being punished, and since Peach has a good glide toss we can use them to our advantage.

But it's easy to forget that there's mroe to Diddy than his bananas. Unfortunately, while we can ground float to deal with bananas, he has a number of ways of getting up out of floating, in particular his crazy priority side B kick and his peanut gun. Diddy also has a pretty good air game as well, so often Peach will have to use her high priority Nair and Bair to try and trade hits. And of course there's his Dair meteor smash, and due to Peach's poor vertical recovery, if you get hit by it, essentially you're screwed. Make sure that you don't get hit by it, whatever you do.

However, we have a couple of other advantages over him too. For a start, he has some issues killing you. His best kill moves are FSmash and DSmash, which means that if you make sure to float above that level more often, he'll have more trouble killing you efficiently. His edgeguarding is fairly good, but his Fair is predictable enough for us to Toad it, and as for his side B, you should be able to air dodge it well enough. Whereas Peach normally has killing issues, IMO against Diddy it's slightly easier, because if he throws out one of his bananas, you can use them to help you set up your FSmash and space effectively.

So for those reasons, I think thsi is 60:40 for us.

 

[Kataefi]

Rick I thought those SH jumping dairs you did to me yesterday were really effective that one time I used diddy (laughably =p)

 

[deepseadiva]

I dislike Diddykong. T___T

But I see our potential advantage over him. I've played a few MMs against Dekar a few weeks ago - so I'll post those whenever those get uploaded.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I was kind of hoping a certain monkey rapist *coughKOSMOS* would give his input here but I'll bump this since no one seems to be posting

Turnips are similar to bananas in that they're items so knowing how to use them effectivly like Turnips is crucial. Remember when Floating, if you're holding a banana you can't throw it but you can perform aerials whilst holding it

Use Diddy's bananas against him. They're a massive part of his game and using them for your own gain will mess him up. Watch out for his aerials which aren't as good as Peachs but will still knock you out of the sky if you get clumsy and predictable

I suggest we look into things that we can pull off when hitting Diddy with a banana. Glide Toss to Fair has worked for me before and got me kills every now and then

 

[Meru.]

Wow. This thread is so alive, I've learnt A LOT!

Where are the Diddy's?

 

[KOS-MOS]

Oh I didn't even see this thread! ^__^

I'll post my thoughts about this matchup when I get off work. :D

 

[Praxis]

SH down air.

Thread over

 

[Razmakazi]

lol@prax

and ftilt or charged fsmash his side b if u have the time. try not to randomly ftilt or fsmash his ground approaches though b/c his spot dodge is annooooooying so wut prax said.

oh, and DI like a monster. just DI up and u got this. he can't kill you 'cept maybe at 160-170 w/ a utilt or usmash but those r hard to hit w/. i live a disgustingly long time vs diddy. you might as well be snake.

 

[KOS-MOS]

Praxis beat me to it LOL <3.

Seriously though...SH dair wrecks diddy >_>

 

[deepseadiva]

They're discussing us too by the way.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238258

 

[Meru.]

... Isn't it better if we discuss this in one thread?

We are princesses, so they should come and discuss it here.

 

[Dark_Meow1]

Be prepared for pressure. Lots of it. Turnip game is important. Glide tossing into bananas is bad. About all I can say. Dekar's diddy is beast, but he helped me out with the matchup a bunch.

 

[deepseadiva]

Quick Meow, what's Dekar's secret weakness!?

His Diddy is stupid. T___T

 

[Dark_Meow1]

Uhhh.... Not sucking? XD

I don't know, we played for like, at least 3 hours straight, and he gave me AMAZING amounts of advice. Only to be beat more. Even when you learn the matchup, you have to be able to reflex out of things. Dekar is also one of the best Diddy's, so you can't just waltz and win. You have to know the matchup, and inside and out be able to play as fast as their Diddy. Which is pretty much impossible. Or be really freakin smart.

 

[deepseadiva]

Well...

What was the advice, and how easy was it to apply? I'm sure we'd all love to know.

 

[Dark_Meow1]

Ummm.... Some of these we figured out as we played as well. And some I figured out while playing Diddy's at a lower level.

1.) Pick up the bananas, you can do it with dash or float arials on the ground. They'll pwn you.

2.) Bair is important. His fair and bair come out alot faster then your fair.

3.) Use varied approaches. Using Dair over and over is subject to kill you. (Groundfloat attacks, glide tossed banana, etc.)

4.) It's easy to gimp Diddy's recovery, so don't miss your chances.

5.) DI up.

6.) Fair outpriortizes Diddy's down B if you're brave enough to go for the timing. But that was a bad habit on my part according to Dekar, because I usually didn't get the timing. So probably don't use fair to pwn downbeez. Spot dodge and get on recovery.

I can't remember everything, I just woke up. I'll post again tonight though with more. (there was alot more).

EDIT: Remembered an important one. Ntilt peanut gun!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Soooo...we can use Sh Dair's to our advantage

...

Surely there's more to this than that?

 

[Eddie G]

U-smash ***** his side B. Remember that if they try to be cute from the ledge.

Just toad any predictable approaches he may throw here and there (dash attack, banana, etc.), and keep him on the defensive.

I personally like to z-catch his bananas or catch them with an airdodge if I think he'll try to intercept my catch with an aerial. This disrupts any chance that he may have of setting up a solid banana/peanut game against you from a distance. Once you take control with both your projectiles and his own, keep the pressure on him HARD. Break out some dairs for shield pressure but watch for his aerials that could knock you out of the air (I recommend just short hopping your dairs instead of floating into them, you'll need to save your float to recover a often as possible). It basically comes down to you applying pressure, spacing your aerials, ****** the **** out of his recovery (drop down and float/nair his *** if he tries to recover from down low, or just throw/z-drop a turnip), and controlling the projectile game. Diddy is mediocre without his bananas.

Also, if he is holding onto the ledge, you can ground float a dair and force him to move. If he jumps: intercept with a full jumped nair, an uair, or an u-tilt; if he rolls: punish with a dash attack, ground float nair/bair, f-smash, etc.; and also remember that you can scare your opponent off of the ledge with a d-smash stage spike attempt on Smashville/Battlefield.

So yeah, Peach has a great pressure game as most of you already know. Just use it the the fullest while being cautious at all times.

 

[Xyless]

I'm horrible at Z-catching.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm horrible at Z-catching.

And that's why I use auto-cancelled aerials instead.

I definitely wouldn't recommend catching them with an airdodge though. Don't forget, when you do your airdodge you're vulnerable for 30 frames, long enough for just about anyone to **** you.

 

[Eddie G]

And that's why I use auto-cancelled aerials instead.

I definitely wouldn't recommend catching them with an airdodge though. Don't forget, when you do your airdodge you're vulnerable for 30 frames, long enough for just about anyone to **** you.

Yeah, if you're foolish enough to airdodge high in the air. I'm talking about catching a banana with an airdodge when and if Diddy releases bananas in the air. Catch them with a short hopped airdodge if you suspect a followup bair from Diddy. The 30 frame vulnerability doesn't apply in this scenario.

 

[Xyless]

I catch with aerial moves.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Yeah, if you're foolish enough to airdodge high in the air. I'm talking about catching a banana with an airdodge when and if Diddy releases bananas in the air. Catch them with a short hopped airdodge if you suspect a followup bair from Diddy. The 30 frame vulnerability doesn't apply in this scenario.

Good point. But IMO auto-cancelled aerials are still better because they're easier to time (for me, anyway).

But yeah, I think we can all agree that if he pulls out a banana, and you aren't taking it for yourself, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Eddie G]

Haha well said. That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

[win_ftw]

i play diddy pretty solidly and the singularly most annoying thing is the sh dair, its true.

look out for peanut popgun approaches if youre a lower level peach, easiest way to counter is n-air.
and as someone said, dont ever ever get spiked.

 

[OmegaExile]

any Peach thats wants to MU practise PM me!!!!! i hate u *****es!! (peach *****es)

 

[mars16]

i play diddy pretty solidly and the singularly most annoying thing is the sh dair, its true.

look out for peanut popgun approaches if youre a lower level peach, easiest way to counter is n-air.
and as someone said, dont ever ever get spiked.

Yea what he said

 

[Praxis]

Z catching is easy. >_>

 

[Sky`]

Mu ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Reverse ADHD Wall.

 

[Grizzer]

And that's why I use auto-cancelled aerials instead.

I definitely wouldn't recommend catching them with an airdodge though. Don't forget, when you do your airdodge you're vulnerable for 30 frames, long enough for just about anyone to **** you.

you can catch them with an airdodge and insta-throw them anywhere, or just instantly z drop them... no lag whatsoever

sorry to bump, but the thread misses out on this

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Im not too fond of this match. Some one needs too teach me.... Praxis......Teach me......if you know it....Please..

 

[hiROI]

I love this match up so much! For Peach, just don't sit in your shield too much since Diddy can glide toss banana and then dsmash and it can poke shields :/

 

[Grizzer]

or it doesnt poke your shield and you get a free "insert move here" cause it has uber lagzzz

 

[Xyless]

Now that I can Z-catch pretty much all the time (thanks to experimenting with Diddy for a while), the matchup is a lot safer feeling to me. Granted, the only Diddy I've played lately is Chompy, who is a great Diddy, but since he's been kind of out of the Diddy development loop for a long time (so it seems), he's still a little too banana spammy.

I hope he gets that out of his system so IL can actually have another top tier character. (lol oh wait I forgot that whole "top tier" thing is just MK now)

 

[Metatitan]

This matchup is all about the bananas (yeah turnips are useful but they just aren't good as bananas). Whoever has control of the bananas has control of the momentum and therefore the match. Z catching is a huge part of it but Peach can catch nanners after doing a floated aerial.

Not much to say really, the matchup really depends on which person is better at using bananas since they both **** with them. SH Dair isn't as powerful in the matchup as it used to be but Dash Attack RAAAAAAPES. The huge disjoint beats out a lot of his ground/air game and it picks up bananas nicely too. That and a lot of diddies love shielding the first part of your attack and spotdodging the rest and dash attack eats it up.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Lang Zi Says: Do not elaborate on what was already been said, but simply on what has not been said.

What I want to add is something not mentioned yet:

When you are at killing percentage, fight him against the ledge and just pluck turnips and camp (especially if you have a lead) any banans he hits you with will simply knock you into grabbing the ledge, preventing his combos and kill setups. Useful tool to stay alive and keep your leads against Diddy. Play smart and once you gain a lead he shouldn't be able to catch up if you employ this once in awhile.

 

[LanceStern]

I think I float too much in this matchup? He always PUMMELS me out the sky with his disgustingly quick and long-ranged fair/bair. Even his dash attack tends to hit me a lot.

Don't be float-happy.

I like to watch KOS-MOS versus diddy matches

 

[Corrupted]

Lang Zi Says: Do not elaborate on what was already been said, but simply on what has not been said.

What I want to add is something not mentioned yet:

When you are at killing percentage, fight him against the ledge and just pluck turnips and camp (especially if you have a lead) any banans he hits you with will simply knock you into grabbing the ledge, preventing his combos and kill setups. Useful tool to stay alive and keep your leads against Diddy. Play smart and once you gain a lead he shouldn't be able to catch up if you employ this once in awhile.

This is broken if you can turnaround free pull