Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[deepseadiva]

Update time?

I think we've settled on 60 - 40 Peach unanimously.

Yoshi next maybe?

 

[Airgemini]

Yeah doi a fun character next like Jigglypuff, Bowser, CF, or Yoshi.

(Bottom tier characters)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

O.o is Game and Watch that bad? I just 2nd jump out of the way/over his aerials...

Bowser is harder than you would first think. I've got some replays somewhere...I would have said that the match up was around 60:40 Peach

 

[Cia]

yeah, Bowser's just annoying annoying. but still in Peach's favor. you just fight him like you'd fight any fatty..

And why don't we discuss the Peach Ditto?? Some people claim to be really bad at it while others really like it.

 

[Nitros14]

O.o is Game and Watch that bad? I just 2nd out of the way/over his aerials...

Bowser is harder than you would first think. I've got some replays somewhere...I would have said that the match up was around 60:40 Peach

I hope Peach and her massively irritating priority burns.

 

[MrEh]

I hope we can discuss Bowser next. Any matchup discussion involving Bowser turns out hilarious, somewhat because of his grab shenanigans, and somewhat because he's Bowser, and that means that no one likes him.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Bowser people - confirmation on this one please

I know Bowser has a ground grab release ---> Whatever (my friend normally uses F Tilt) but if Peach air releases, can he follow up with anything to hit her?

 

[Nitros14]

Bowser people - confirmation on this one please

I know Bowser has a ground grab release ---> Whatever (my friend normally uses F Tilt) but if Peach air releases, can he follow up with anything to hit her?

Just a forward air.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That sucks...it's inescapable right? I've perfect shielded an F Tilt that was about to hit me once when Bowser tried his grab release stuff on me

Did the Bowser time it wrong because I'm certain that Peach will always get hit right?

 

[Nitros14]

That sucks...it's inescapable right? I've perfect shielded an F Tilt that was about to hit me once when Bowser tried his grab release stuff on me

Did the Bowser time it wrong because I'm certain that Peach will always get hit right?

The timing is pretty strict for most of the grab release stuff, it's entirely possible Bowser just screwed up.

 

[MrEh]

That sucks...it's inescapable right?

Yeah, it's inescapable as long as the Bowser player knows the timing for it. Peach's jump release isn't all that bad though. She can only be hit by an Fair, and an Fair isn't the scariest thing ever. Some characters can get grabbed and Klawed out of a jump release, and Wario can even be Fsmashed and Usmashed. All things considered, Peach has it good.

I've perfect shielded an F Tilt that was about to hit me once when Bowser tried his grab release stuff on me

Did the Bowser time it wrong because I'm certain that Peach will always get hit right?

The Ftilt can hit Peach only if the Bowser player's timing is near perfect. Since attacks are not buffered out of a grab release, Bowser needs very frame specific timing to land the Ftilt, otherwise it can be powershielded. (I think the window of opportunity is like, 3 frames.)

Using the Klaw out of a grab release is usually a better option. It comes out faster then the Ftilt, does more damage, and cannot be powershielded. (for obvious reasons)

Oh, and Bowser can grab Peach again out of a ground release. That means that Peach won't be able to escape until she gets a jump release. Not all that special, since Bowser can do this to almost every single character in the game. It looks funny though.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Bowser cannot follow up with air release. I highly doubt a F-air can hit her. I'm pretty sure it can't. Peach's neutral air comes out in 2 frames. How many frames does it take for bowser to jump and forward air? (Don't forget Peach's n-air probably has more priority so Bowser's f-air would have to come out sooner)

 

[gantrain05]

Bowser cannot follow up with air release. I highly doubt a F-air can hit her. I'm pretty sure it can't. Peach's neutral air comes out in 2 frames. How many frames does it take for bowser to jump and forward air? (Don't forget Peach's n-air probably has more priority so Bowser's f-air would have to come out sooner)

i don't think it has more priority, but peach does have the option to release into a float, and just float back and avoid the Fair altogether.

 

[Airgemini]

Does anyone else try to Toad his Up B?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ever since Bowser F Smashed me right through Toad, I've been cautious about what I Toad vs Bowser

xD

 

[EdreesesPieces]

i don't think it has more priority, but peach does have the option to release into a float, and just float back and avoid the Fair altogether.

While we're on that subject, floating is also the best way to survive spikes. It gets you to stop at the earliest possible moment if you just start floating as you got spiked =)

 

[MrEh]

Bowser cannot follow up with air release. I highly doubt a F-air can hit her. I'm pretty sure it can't.

I'm think Bowser can, but I'm wrong like all the time. I can do some rigorous testing if you want.

i don't think it has more priority, but peach does have the option to release into a float, and just float back and avoid the Fair altogether.

Again, I don't think that's possible if Bowser has perfect timing, but I'll check again to make sure.

Peach's neutral air comes out in 2 frames. How many frames does it take for bowser to jump and forward air? (Don't forget Peach's n-air probably has more priority so Bowser's f-air would have to come out sooner)

Frame math always helps to see if grab releases are plausible.


Okay, Peach suffers from 50 frames of immobility after a jump release. Bowser suffers from 20 frames after releasing her. So....

50 - 20 = 30 frames

It takes Bowser 9 frames for his jump to execute, and his Fair comes out on frame 8. All we do is subtract that from 30.

30 - 17 = 13 frames

Bowser has 13 frames to be in the proper positioning to launch his Fair. I forget whether or not he needs to shorthop or fullhop to hit Peach, or if any running is required, so I'll test it later today to try to estimate the window that Bowser has to actually hit Peach, if at all. (I think it's no larger then a couple of frames really.)

I clearly can't confirm 100% on whether or not this works, because I rarely use grab releases of Peach. She's hard to grab. ><


EDIT: The Fair works 100%. Bowser actually has to initiate his run first, full hop, then Fair for it to land correctly. I think the Klaw might be plausible to, so I'm testing that now.

 

[gantrain05]

so, im a little confused, i haven't been following these matchups as closely as i was before, but are we on to sonic or bowser?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lol, we might as well be doing unless Edreese has other ideas? I think Bowser is a good idea because I know a lot of people will be like 'lulz big char rubbish recovery slow moves omgomg 75:25 peach' and that simply isn't true

 

[JigglyZelda003]

who ever says 75:25 peach against bowser obviously has not been playing bowsers who are awake.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

who ever says 75:25 peach against bowser obviously has not been playing bowsers who are awake.

Exactly. I'm just worried that's what people will think because it's what I first thought

Then I got *****

 

[Nitros14]

Lol, we might as well be doing unless Edreese has other ideas? I think Bowser is a good idea because I know a lot of people will be like 'lulz big char rubbish recovery slow moves omgomg 75:25 peach' and that simply isn't true

I do think it's advantage Peach since Bowser is forced to approach and Peach generally has better priority and Bowser can get combo'd pretty badly. The Klaw (sideb) is pretty effective against irritating floating but you can't spam it or get predictable or Bowser will get destroyed. Fire Breath works pretty decently at making Peach play more wary and if she can't recover high it's pretty effective as an edgeguard. Bowser lives forever and Peach isn't the most mobile character or the best at killing. More like 55:45 Peach.

I've played a few people on this board (Silent_Rain, Menounderwater I think) and Bowser held his own pretty well, glory to fortress out of shield. Just need to stay away from that go**** forward air.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I have matches vs my friends Bowser. I'd say he's pretty good and I play him very often - he knows pretty much all the things I can throw at him

Bowser's Klaw is one of the most ****ing annoying moves I've ever had to fight. Lagless landing into F Tilt? Good damage? No thanks :/

DI is a life saver vs Bowser...than again, you could say that about every character you fight

 

[Nitros14]

I have matches vs my friends Bowser. I'd say he's pretty good and I play him very often - he knows pretty much all the things I can throw at him

Bowser's Klaw is one of the most ****ing annoying moves I've ever had to fight. Lagless landing into F Tilt? Good damage? No thanks :/

DI is a life saver vs Bowser...than again, you could say that about every character you fight

It sucks to get your Klaw dodged because you got too predictable into some obscene combo that Bowser is too fat to escape

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Airdodging straight past Bowser ---> Reverse Glide Tossed Turnip is too good

In before anyone else claims they do that D:

 

[gantrain05]

well one thing against bowser, he won't be using any fortress out of shield if your floating at head level, if you do a floating Dair at the top of bowsers head you can hit him with 3 Dairs followed by an Uair if you start the float right as you approach him. i don't find firebreath do be too much of a hassle, its kind of annoying as an edgegaurd, but generally peach won't get caught in it onstage. also, bowsers SH >B to Ftilt/jab/whatever he wants, approach is kind of annoying, but if you space well you should rarely get hit by it. Also, if your above bowser and your recovering back on stage, DO NOT try to Dair him as you are coming back to the ground, his Uair has very deceptive range and will kill peach at rediculously low percents.

although bowser is heavy, i find him to be not too hard to gimp, 1 or 2 turnips are generally enough if he's far enough out, but on the other hand he can kill peach pretty early too if you run into one of his kill moves, but in the end im going to have to say 60-40 maybe even 65-35 peach, just for the fact he is so easily combo'd and Dair shield pokes bowser all day.

 

[MrEh]

well one thing against bowser, he won't be using any fortress out of shield if your floating at head level

I'd watch out more for his Utilt actually. Fortress will really only be used if you try head on approaches, or you aren't floating correctly.

if you do a floating Dair at the top of bowsers head you can hit him with 3 Dairs followed by an Uair if you start the float right as you approach him.

No character should ever be hit by 3 Dairs in a row.

although bowser is heavy, i find him to be not too hard to gimp, 1 or 2 turnips are generally enough if he's far enough out

A good Bowser is ridiculously hard to gimp though. The Fortress has invincibility frames and goes through, like, everything. If Bowser's getting gimped, then he's doing it wrong.

but in the end im going to have to say 60-40 maybe even 65-35 peach, just for the fact he is so easily combo'd and Dair shield pokes bowser all day

60-40 is always debatable, but 65-35 is too high. No way Bowser loses that bad.

 

[gantrain05]

actually 3 dairs on bowser is pretty easy, its not hard to read DI, and peach's float speed is just about equal to bowsers arial movement. although i do know that bowsers fortress does have super armor on it, but throwing a turnip while he's still far out will force him to use fortress or he'll be gimped, which makes his line of recovery very predictable and punishable by a quick Fair/Bair/Nair or even a Dtilt spike.

 

[Praxis]

No character should ever be hit by 3 Dairs in a row.

Actually, Peach can do that to Dedede, Bowser, ROB, and DK.
Now, if you're SDIing well, maybe not, but she can still chase the DI and keep hitting you.

 

[MrEh]

actually 3 dairs on bowser is pretty easy, its not hard to read DI, and peach's float speed is just about equal to bowsers arial movement

Is it really realistic to land 3 Dairs in a row though? I'm not questioning the usefulness of the Dair, because we all know it's awesome, but if you're landing 3 Dairs then I'm sure Bowser is doing it wrong.

although i do know that bowsers fortress does have super armor on it

Bowser's Fortress doesn't have super armor, it has invincibility frames.

but throwing a turnip while he's still far out will force him to use fortress or he'll be gimped, which makes his line of recovery very predictable and punishable by a quick Fair/Bair/Nair or even a Dtilt spike.

Can't argue with that.

Note that Bowser has some pretty fast aerial movement (if you can believe that), and combined with his freakish weight, he's very difficult to get in a position where turnip gimping is possible. Granted, it's still an option though.

Now, if you're SDIing well, maybe not, but she can still chase the DI and keep hitting you.

Normally I would Fortress OoS, but I'm not sure how that would work here. I know it won't reach Peach if she's floating correctly, but maybe the invincibility frames will give Bowser enough time to escape. Hmm...I dunno.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I assume we are doing Bowser then?

Bowser is tougher than he looks. By now, you should have learnt in Brawl that heavies like Bowser are no longer pushovers

Bowser has surprisingly good range and power on his attacks. His tilts have long range and an up angled F Tilt (if you're low enough) and Up Tilt can knock you out of the sky. This makes approaching Bowser on the ground a bi of a pain. His F Smash is horribly strong when all the hits connect and it can even go straight through Toad and hit Peach. Peach's F Tilt clanks with Bowser's F Smash

Bowser also has a surprisingly good aerial game. His Side B can be used in the air and will laglessly cancel into anything if it doesn't connect when he reaches the ground (when used properly). His Fair has long range, his Bair and Uair are both strong and his Dair has multiple hits. Peach's Bair and Bowser's Bair trade hits btw.

There are two things you really really have to watch out for in this match. First off his Bowsers Side B, the Koopa Klaw. We did it a while ago on my thread if anyones interested. It's basically a special kind of grab and a very good anti air move. Once he grabs you, he'll spin in the air and then come crashing down. If you're losing, you can control where he goes in the air. When he lands it is CRUCIAL you DI correctly. Bowsers Side B has enough power to kill Peach who uses bad DI

Then there's Bowsers grab release. He can continually ground grab release Peach. The only way for her to truly escape is to jump release. Unfortunetly, Bowser can follow up with an F Tilt (or another grab) if she ground releases and a Fair if Peach jump releases

I find staying in the air for short bursts at a time works best. Turnip barrages are a key to winning. Fair is very good at defending yourself against Bowser's Fair and aerial Side B. Unfortunetly, this stales her best kill move. Don't be surprised if Bowser stays alive for such a long period of time

Bowser is big and heavy. If you get a Dair in, go for another one and another if you can manage. Bowser has poor recovery as well so gimping him is a good way to KO him...easier said than done though. Bowser's Up + B, which is not only a horribly surprisingly OoS option (and KO move), will cancel Turnips out the majority of the time. Good ledge play is needed here. Toad his recovery if all else fails

I personally think that the match up is somewhere around the 55-45/60-40 area in Peach's favour. Bowser is not to be underestimated

 

[Kataefi]

Bowser is hard for me =( It's his survavibility. If that Fair stales, he'll live to ridiculous percents.

 

[deepseadiva]

I assume we are doing Bowser then?

This is such an awesome BOWSER discussion about BOWSER in our weekly matchup discussion about BOWSER.

Don't you think so Edreeses?

 

[Villi]

Land upsmashes on Bowser when you can. He's pretty fat, you know.

 

[Nitros14]

this Is Such An Awesome Bowser Discussion About Bowser In Our Weekly Matchup Discussion About Bowser.

Don't You Think So Edreeses?

Glorious Lord Bowser takes what he wants and he wants this matchup thread!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well, just don't take our match up thread to another castle

(c wat i did thar?)

Keeping Peach's Fair fresh...is difficult if Bowser plays defensivly. Fighting off his Side B and Fair is difficult and F Tilt will only get you so far

Here's some vids of me vs my friend who plays a good Bowser. He didn't use grab releases in these matches though :/ Hopefully I can get some of him where he does. He still makes good use of grabs

vs Bowser <---Me losing
vs Bowser <--- Me winning

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm think Bowser can, but I'm wrong like all the time. I can do some rigorous testing if you want.



Again, I don't think that's possible if Bowser has perfect timing, but I'll check again to make sure.



Frame math always helps to see if grab releases are plausible.


Okay, Peach suffers from 50 frames of immobility after a jump release. Bowser suffers from 20 frames after releasing her. So....

50 - 20 = 30 frames

It takes Bowser 9 frames for his jump to execute, and his Fair comes out on frame 8. All we do is subtract that from 30.

30 - 17 = 13 frames

Bowser has 13 frames to be in the proper positioning to launch his Fair. I forget whether or not he needs to shorthop or fullhop to hit Peach, or if any running is required, so I'll test it later today to try to estimate the window that Bowser has to actually hit Peach, if at all. (I think it's no larger then a couple of frames really.)

I clearly can't confirm 100% on whether or not this works, because I rarely use grab releases of Peach. She's hard to grab. ><


EDIT: The Fair works 100%. Bowser actually has to initiate his run first, full hop, then Fair for it to land correctly. I think the Klaw might be plausible to, so I'm testing that now.

Thanks for testing it out, I appreciate the information! Good to know what to watch out for.

Anyway, I've been really busy...does anyone wanna volunteer to do all the missing writeups for the matchup discussions over the past couple of weeks? xD Zelda/Sheik, Sonic...and a couple of others.

I believe Peach has a 60-40 adantage on Bowser. It's not **** or anything but shes got the tools to beat him a good chunk of the time. You have to know the matchup though. If you don't you will prob lose to a good bowser because he can do a lot and punish pretty hard.

Yeah bowser this week. Peach dittos next.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lol how many match ups need writing up Edreese?

I could do the Sonic one if no one objects as I've done the match up a gajillion times

Regarding Peach dittos...yuck

 

[PrepareYourself]

Peach Dittoes: Toad his Toad after glide tossing into his face (proper spacing required)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

This week's still for bowser, peach dittos next time. I love Peach dittos because all it is is a battle of spacing, IMO my best strength :D People complain about dittos because you both have the same combos or same strategies but I don't see whats the problem. You have all the same moves so just space better and you wont get hit.