Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[ExCeL 52]

I think its 60:40 Peach... All her specials own fox .. then throw in down aerial and you got yourself a win.

 

[Gea]

Fast fall the dair. Dair pins fox down, but if fast falled you'll go all the way through him before the last hit.

Bad idea if he is low. Best way to do it is just float and don't stop moving during it, so you slide off of him before the dair finishes and he falls down further.

 

[M@v]

I think its 60:40 Peach... All her specials own fox .. then throw in down aerial and you got yourself a win.

Care to explain? Last Time I checked peaches specials were not the best in the game.
B is just a counter
Side B has a slow startup and slow ending if you miss
Down B can be reflected by fox's reflector
Up b is a pure recovery move except the startup.

.....
What makes peach good is her A moves, most particularly her air game.

PS
My only question though , Does up b beat fox's shine? Im assuming it probably does.

 

[Praxis]

Care to explain? Last Time I checked peaches specials were not the best in the game.
B is just a counter
Side B has a slow startup and slow ending if you miss
Down B can be reflected by fox's reflector
Up b is a pure recovery move except the startup.

.....
What makes peach good is her A moves, most particularly her air game.

PS
My only question though , Does up b beat fox's shine? Im assuming it probably does.

Yeah, I honestly don't know what he was talking about.
As to up-B verses Fox's shine, I assume so. I've never actually been shine-spiked though :o

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think it does beat shine, but i've never been shine spiked mid UpB

 

[ExCeL 52]

I meant all of peaches specials counter against foxes specials ...

If you use B against foxes b it counters it ..

Side b against foxes side b it owns it ...

Down b is the only one lol i was on weed...

Up b owns foxes.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Down B is good. Side B and Up B are pretty horrible though as Fox can punish you fairly easily

Toad is good...unless he uses and holds down his Reflector to activate the counter

 

[JigglyZelda003]

or hes shooting lasers then toad is completely ineffective lol

 

[gantrain05]

i've never been shine spiked EVER so....i mean i just don't think its easy to shinespike peach lol.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

its not easy and should rarely happen unless peach is asleep or that fox player has a sixth sense and is able to shine spike her before she reacts lol.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I meant all of peaches specials counter against foxes specials ...

If you use B against foxes b it counters it ..

Side b against foxes side b it owns it ...

Down b is the only one lol i was on weed...

Up b owns foxes.

That has absolutely nothing to do with how good either character is..you are not going to try to counter someone's attack by using the exact same attack on your controller. You're going to use your best option..so that's meaningless.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Hold up, are you guys talking about Fox or Falco because only Falco's shine thing spikes. Or are you talking about stage spikes?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Falcos shine doesn't spike people, at least not from what i've seen.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

It does spike, I fought one before and he spiked me with it.

 

[Villi]

You might be confusing the shine with their phantasm. Falco's side b spikes, Fox's down b spikes.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Oh...sorry about that. I mean't to say his side b, please continue.

 

[PKNintendo]

I don't even main Peach and even I agree that Peach has a 6-4 adv.

CG, from what 0-30. KO's Fox at a normal rate. (fox is lighty)
Peach's one true weaknesses is KOing, if she can KO...

What does Fox even HAVE over Peach?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That bull****ty Up Smash

Anyways, shouldn't we be moving on?

I think we should do either Sonic or Bowser. I know the Sonic match up inside out and I kind of know a bit about the Bowser match up...is there any other character we haven't done yet who's fairly highish in the tier list/rankings?

 

[PrepareYourself]

Is it just me or did Edrees mess up with the bolding somewhere around the Llamacario post?

Recommended editing.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

whoops. i fixed it. next will be, sure lets just go with Sonic.

 

[Morrigan]

instorm 10000 Sonic mains

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

/me storms in

Sonic would whip yo *****. XD

Nah. 60-40 Peach if not 65-35. Peach is hard. Stupid floating. I'll wait for other things to be said before adding. I don't know the matchup from the Peach side too well.

 

[Airgemini]

One word, Ftilt.

 

[Morrigan]

One word, Ftilt.

-Captain Falcon-

Discussion: Posts 600-601


What to Watch out For:
-Air germs that might affect your eyes during gameplay

Matchup Mentality:
-Press A

Did you know?
-Yes I do!

 

[Praxis]

RUN, WE'RE TOO SLOW TO AVOID THE SONIC MAINS.

Peach > Sonic though. Her priority and float **** him. He can't land kill moves.
Which makes it fair, since Peach doesn't have kill moves.
xD

 

[deepseadiva]

What to Watch out For:
-Air germs that might affect your eyes during gameplay

I rofl'd.

Anyways. THANK GOD.

If it's 60-40 Peach then yes. I'm doing it wrong. I have no I idea on how this match up works - having played it... once? Maybe a few times online?

Stupid grabs and combos and dashing things.

 

[Kinzer]

We have Bair for kill moves.

Yep, prepare yourselves for the invasion of Sonic boarders/mainers, spamming your matchup discussion thread to get more posts.

But seriously here's the breakdown from your perspective.

Sonic, really has no priority when compared to Peach, floating nairs are more than enough to hit Sonic out of SpinDash Rolls (SDRs), HA becomes absolutely useless in this matchup, as it is easy to see coming and easy to hit.

Knowing that, Sonic is going to pick his approaches carefully, because this isn't March/April where Sonic is all about spin attacks.

You're going to want to float a little bit higher than usual, because Sonic's ground spacing tool is FTilt, rise above the distance even angled up, and Sonic loses a lot of moves for uses.

Knowing that, expect Bair/Hyphened USmash as the normal approaches. Fair/Dair can be used ifyou get really predictable/careless. Sonic is the king of punishment, don't leave yourself open too often. Take in mind that Sonic can angle his FSmash upward, so if you really get predictable with your float, Sonic is just going to wait for you to slip somewhere and have you fall on his fist.

Sonic can use turnips against you if not easily avoid them, because the SBR THAT right when they said Sonic is top-tier with items, I would use Turnips for just getting around/tossing them straight up into the air to cause a distraction.

Sonic will use UTilt to knock you out of your float as it has decent disjointedness at Sonic's shoes.

Don't float to get back on the stage, you'll leave yourself open for Sonic to use Bair to either push you further away from the stage, or just outright kill you. I recommand recovering very high or low, just be careful when recovering high because Sonic is going to Spring to Uair to kill you. He'll even use this after an U-Throw and you are up there in the air.

Use a retreating Toad if you want to punish Sonic trying to recover by locking on to you with HA, the spores should teach him a lesson.

Take Sonic somewhere where his kill options become even more limited than usual. Japes is a good palce to play against Sonic because the usual U-Throw -> Uair K.O. won't work due to the very high ceiling, and with Peach getting horizontal K.O.s are harder than usual.

That's all I got... that, and the matchup ratio is a solid 6:4 Peach's favor, nothing more, and nothing less.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Something about the Homing Attack... If he ever really uses it, Peach can do a lot to punish him. Using it as a recovery option is a bad idea, because we can either dodge/get out of range, and he'll fly downward. Alternatively, once you get the timing down, you can hit him with a nair, a possible fair(if you REALLY know the timing), or the very odd usmash if he's too close. There's even a chance you'll hit the big sweetspot.

Oh, and if Sonic EVER gets in grabbing range from his up B, treat him like Snake. He won't regain his up B if you just hold him and let him break free.

Turnips are nice, but Peach's priority is good, too. If you can't toss around turnips, which you probably won't get much chance to do because of Sonic's sheer speed, this is one of those cases where it isn't a complete loss. Both sides are damage builders in this match, and landing KO moves kinda depends on tricking opponents. Peach's priority makes damage-building for her a bit easier in this match, though, and because Sonic is also decently light, unless you don't know what moves of Sonic's can KO, Peach just might have an easier time KOing.

Not by much, mind you, but easier because her aerials, in which bair and nair are decent killers, fair is slower but more powerful, dair shouldn't kill, and uair will have a tough time KOing, too, are all easier to connect with than some of Sonic's. His fsmash is his most powerful smash by far, but with proper spacing is decently easy to avoid(basically our usmash). His usmash is a multi-hit, and can be DI'ed out of. Dsmash is long and only hits once, like Wario's(though not NEARLY as long), so if it's blocked things go badly for Sonic.

On Peach's side, where Sonic has the knowledge of proper spacing since he only has one variety to work with, her fsmash is random. Frying pan will pop him into the air, which is a good thing for us because his speed is severely limited in the air(as well as his options). Tennis racket can kill quick, and golf club can keep him away. The drawback for Peach is it's random, so we can't always rely on it to do what we want like Sonic can. While our dsmash is a multi-hit and is less easy to punish, if Sonic sees it coming or he shields the hits, we're open to be punished. That and there's practically no KO potential unless we somehow stage spike him(aka not gonna happen). Our usmash, which by far outclasses Sonic's in terms of KO potential, is sadly the HARDEST to land on Sonic. We'd have to be really lucky, break his shield, or he HA's/dairs into us. Circumstances like these are so rare that our usmash is practically taken out of the equation, sadly... It'll remain as a highly circumstantial ace in the hole as per usual.

As for gameplay, I'll have to leave that to others. I have yet to face a good Sonic, especially IRL, so any other comparisons I can make would be speculation at best.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't know about light, but I know that Sonic is somewhere between the 17th and 21st heaviest character in Brawl... so he has reasonable weight... add that with his recovery, and Sonic isn't going to get gimp K.O.ed.

Sonic, in this matchup, would be smart not to use DSmash unless you're getting crazy with the spotdodges/rolls, that's assuming you're going to be grounded, which you most likely won't be, so DSmash won't be coming up too often. We lose our Second best K.O. move, which explains my saying that Sonic is going to have an extremely hard time getting kills.

As for us landing our aerials, it's not really that hard. If we want to sacrifice Bair as a kill move, we can use that against you as it is ranged and disjointed. Uair is too good. Nair is like a "GTFO" move if you just happen to be right on top of Sonic... situational, no doubt. We have Dair, which throwing it out wildly is not the best method, but Sonic can use it to thunder down on whatever you might have for an aerial. Fair would be used from high above and fast-falled, otherwise it won't be abused as much in some other matchups.

I wouldn't say that he loses in the air, he just has different things to work with. Dair can get us down to the ground ASAP assuming it isn't abused to let you catch on to us to be able to punish. Then there's the Spring, which gets Sonic out of any sticky situation, and from there Sonic can change up how he gets back on the ground to remain unpredictable. There are Sonics who would rather prefer the air than the ground, he can do just fine in the air as he can on the ground... to be honest, against Peach, we have just as many things to work with if not more in the air than on the ground, no thanks to Peach being able to be airborne. The only reason we don't want to stay grounded is because this isn't Wario who has a ridiculous aerial game thanks to his aerial acceleration and decent Speed.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I don't know about light, but I know that Sonic is somewhere between the 17th and 21st heaviest character in Brawl... so he has reasonable weight... add that with his recovery, and Sonic isn't going to get gimp K.O.ed.

He is not a character like Snake, and he also isn't the fastest falling character. That does have things to do with vertical KO moves and the like. Besides the fact, I wasn't talking about Sonic getting gimp KOed. I never even said he would get gimp KOed, either. I was saying if he used that specific route to recovery, there is something that can be done about it.

As for us landing our aerials, it's not really that hard. If we want to sacrifice Bair as a kill move, we can use that against you as it is ranged and disjointed. Uair is too good. Nair is like a "GTFO" move if you just happen to be right on top of Sonic... situational, no doubt. We have Dair, which throwing it out wildly is not the best method, but Sonic can use it to thunder down on whatever you might have for an aerial. Fair would be used from high above and fast-falled, otherwise it won't be abused as much in some other matchups.

I never said anything about landing aerials. I was saying that if we can't get out a turnip, it isn't like we're completely sunk. Also, because she has priority, it'll be easier for her to use her aerials in more general situations.

On Sonic's aerials... Uair is a double hit. At higher percents, Peach most commonly will pop out of range for the second hit, and if you start it up early it's possible for her to see coming. The first hit may even trade with Peach's dair. I might be wrong there, so someone please try and find out for sure.

Sonic's bair also has a slight windup like Peach's fair, so Peach can avoid it like Sonic can avoid Peach's fairs. Dair is, in my opinion, a great surprise move for Sonic, while Peach's dair is something to always look out for and expect because of it's more general usefulness. Sonic's dair is his biggest momentum tool to use if used wisely IMO. Sonic's nair is situational, while Peach's... isn't. Sonic's fair, in your scenario, is easy to see coming and be moved around for us. Otherwise, it's mostly to damage build and disrupt in between Peach's attacks.

I wouldn't say that he loses in the air, he just has different things to work with. Dair can get us down to the ground ASAP assuming it isn't abused to let you catch on to us to be able to punish. Then there's the Spring, which gets Sonic out of any sticky situation, and from there Sonic can change up how he gets back on the ground to remain unpredictable. There are Sonics who would rather prefer the air than the ground, he can do just fine in the air as he can on the ground... to be honest, against Peach, we have just as many things to work with if not more in the air than on the ground, no thanks to Peach being able to be airborne. The only reason we don't want to stay grounded is because this isn't Wario who has a ridiculous aerial game thanks to his aerial acceleration and decent Speed.

Sonic can only be so unpredictable, though. While Peach has her float, where she can still attack or stop it at any time, a pause of a double jump, and her two fall settings for the parasol, Peach has a lot of options as to where to go. Sonic can rise and fall, sure, but then it's just repredicting where he's gonna fall from what way he starts going. He can't easily counter an attack like Peach can while he's in the air. His Spring resets the situation, just with him being higher in the air(giving us time to grab a projectile and cover our bases or try to force him to go a certain way), and the other specials at his disposal then can trade hits with Peach's intercepting moves... and ours commonly hits for more damage. Oh, and by the way, I didn't say you lose in the air. I just said we have more to work with. I say that because Peach's aerial moves can all be used almost equally, and all but one are(save the double hit of nair and bair) singular hits with the maximum power and knockback in the start, doing overall more damage.

Oh, and sorry if this seems incoherent. I'm sleepy and going to bed now. ^_^;

I just couldn't let it stop there, though, when I never said that Sonic's aerials were this or that or he'd lose hands down previously. Sonic can land his aerials, yes, but he doesn't have a huge variety of uses for two, if not three of his aerials. Peach in general has more to work with than Sonic's, though, since she has more general uses overall, mostly thanks to her float. That instead was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Kinzer]

I know you didn't say anything abuot him getting gimp K.O.ed, and I probably should've put that elsewhere seperatly, my miSteak.

Please forgive me, I know when I'm wrong, so no need to apologize.

I myself am too sleepy by this point to try and argue any points you might have wrong, if any to begin with.

I'll just take my leave, seeing as how you are as informed on the matchup as I am, if not perhaps more.

I'll also say this for general knowledge. Uair's first hit is about as horizontally disjointed as Fair both ways, andt he second hit of Uair is disjointedness to trade hits with Lucario's Dair for example. It is a very good aerial to use. I also couldn't come up with anything else for Fair, so I just filled something to cover up the blank, I'm sure another Sonic mainer will be able to help you there, seeing as how I won't be able to.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I main both characters so I reckon I have a pretty good understanding of this matchup. I've played quite a few of the Sonic mains and I know all Sonic's techs (kind of). I think this match up is 60:40 in Peach's favour. Though, if you don't know what you're doing, it can feel like 70:30 in Sonic's favour

Sonic is fast. Very fast. It is crucial you don't do anything too slow (no pun intended) because Sonic can very easily punish you. You have to play very smart in this match because good Sonic's will have all kinds of trickery up their sleeve. He has a very good grab game. If you do get grabbed, learn to DI. Sonic's Up throw is the most powerful in the game and can be followed up with the embarrasing Up + B ---> Uair kill. DI left or right for that. DI up for his Down throw and start a lot. A lot of Sonic's like to punish a failed tech from their Down Throw via a tech chase with another grab

Sonic's Side B/Down + B are not simply for rolling around - they can be jumped out of and cancelled in a huge variety of ways (see my thread it's number 17). You have to be extremely careful that you don't get baited by Sonic because of Sonic's speed. Fair/Toad/Turnip use will have to be well planned and carefully used because of Sonic's ability to cancel his approaches with ease

Peach's priority trashes Sonic's. Nair (heck, even jab) will hit him out of all his spindashes. Dair will cut through his moves. Peach Bomber will also knock Sonic out of his spindashes but it's a risky move to pull off. Sonic's Homing Attack is his worst enemy in this match up. Nair will hit him out of it and if he tries to hit Peach whsilt she's on the ground, Peach can land her Up Smash on him (believe me, it won't be the sourspot)

A very very very common thing that all Sonic's do now and then is to use their Up + B (Spring) and then use Dair which will make them land on the ground again (lagless if timed right). Abuse this by either Up Tilting them out of the Dair or grab them when they land! Throw Turnips up in the air if you have them in hand

Gimping Sonic is not going to happen often since he has very good recovery. Turnips are pretty much useless. You can do the grab trick if Sonic is near the edge. If he's recovering from below, predict where he'll spring up and start a Float and get ready to hit him out of his Up + B. You have to outright kill Sonic as gimping is hard to do...unfortunetly, landing a kill move on Sonic is hard. Fair is too slow a lot of the time

One of the most irritating things Sonic can do (and indeed a lot of other characters) is continually space aerials (in this case, Sonic's Bair). It has surprising range so watch out. Jump up and Toad it if he gets sloppy or outrange it with your Fair, or go for the good old F Tilt. Peach's Bair will trade hits with Sonic's Bair


This match up is about being smart and making the right choices. If you rush in, you'll get owned. Personally, I sometimes like to try and play Sonic's at their own game (e.g. grab use, baiting)

 

[Kinzer]

I don't know about U-Throw being very powerful, but it's too good.



But yeah, it's all about the choices you make as RD3 said, make one wrong move and it can mean the stock, literally.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Doesn't Sonic have the strongest U Throw in the game?



I'm pretty sure it deals the most damage

 

[Kinzer]

There should be a thread somewhere that explains every throw in the game, I can't go looking for it now though since I'm at school, so you'll have to find it yourself.

Regardless, U-Throw is still too good.

It's only beat on the tier list by Steak and Boxobairs I think.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

boxobairs? whats that?

 

[Kinzer]

...Rick, you want to be the one to enlighten him?

I'm sure he/she will get a good laugh out of it, and I would be more than happy to get a cheap laugh out of somebody, but I'm afraid being at the school building, the next teacher might come in and I won't have time to type it up.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

...Oh...oh no...

Kinzer...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?!?!

 

[Kinzer]

Spreading the good joy that is the Sonic boards, my good man.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i'd still like to know what is a boxobairs.