Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Adapt]

The time at which you break out is entirely dependent on you damage percentage. Most followups are guaranteed as long as the ZSS has the correct timing.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I like her second jump, overall its good and gets the job done. Also its amazing for spacing and mind games. BUT YOU WONT RECOVER FROM SPIKES BECAUSE IT DOESN"T GIVE YOU MUCH VERTICAL DISTANCE. That's just plain fact. I just played against MK and I got down air stage spiked and I up B'd instantly but i was nowhere even close to grabbing the ledge. Also getting footstooled is instant death.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Jiggz gets it the worst from a footstool iirc

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hence my Peachs 2nd jump is too good topic...

So the only way to avoid get killed from a double Down Smash follow up is to get lucky?

 

[Airgemini]

Which moves does ZSS rarely ever use?

Her Fsmash. Extemelly laggy on both start up and cool down, and probably Ftilt.

 

[kujibiki57]

Her Fsmash. Extemelly laggy on both start up and cool down, and probably Ftilt.

Isn't her Ftilt a lock? Like a jab lock, but with Ftilt?

 

[Adapt]

ftilt will lock but its not a good one, you have to do the following:

ftilt>ftilt>dash attack>ftilt>ftilt>dash attack. By the time you do the second dash attack you are at the edge (unless you started closer to the middle of the stage)

The good part is that it forces a normal stand up so we can d-smash you afterward and if you are on the edge it's a free spike.

The moves that ZSS will use least are:
fsmash
dair
grab
(uthrow is never used)

 

[Dark.Pch]

I have yet too see ZSS players use Nair alot.

 

[Adapt]

That seems to depend on the player. I think Faded uses it a lot, but I rarely see Snakeee use it. I use it a bit, but not a whole lot.

 

[FadedImage]

http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/aznforce-v-edreesespieces-vs-faded.html

Watch the first match, I use n-air a pretty large amount. It's a solid spacing aerial.

As far as dodging moves out of D-Smash, just try to DI it as you leave, and hope she doesn't track you correctly. It counts as sending you out at like a, 50 degree angle. So DIing upleft will send you directly up, and downright will send you away fairly fast. Try to determine which way ZSS will be attacking from, and stay away from it.

as stated before, d-air and f-smash should never really be used. You also should not be scared of grabs, ZSS's will hardly throw out grabs. If they do, start spot dodging them to up-smashes, you really have plenty of time to set it up. (not to mention they aren't hard to spotdodge since they're so telegraphed, hitbox is out on frame 16 or some garbage.)

 

[kujibiki57]

ftilt will lock but its not a good one, you have to do the following:

ftilt>ftilt>dash attack>ftilt>ftilt>dash attack. By the time you do the second dash attack you are at the edge (unless you started closer to the middle of the stage)

Couldn't you finish it with a downB spike then?

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hbf9Zcx4ME

 

[Adapt]

yeah Zigma found it out... but we can't find a reliable setup into the lock

 

[gantrain05]

this is the most boring matchup discussion ever for me lol, i have literally ZERO zero suit samus's in my area that are any good at all, but i guess i can commit some of this stuff to memory in case i actually run into a good one lol. all i know is every one that i play over here i beat pretty easily w/ peach.

but anyways, have we decided a matchup ratio yet? it seems to me its going to be something like 55/45 or 60/40 ZSS advantage.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think that about wraps up the discussion.. i guess 55-45 in favor of zamus seems consensable (not a real word) Now for some Fox discussion.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Wait what? How you come to 55-45 Zamus. We all went through this and even the Zamus players agree its even.

 

[Niko_K]

Fun fact about Fox:

On brinstar, if you D-Throw CG him on the jelly that splits up, when it splits it spikes fox.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Ah okay, will fix. Even then. I missed a good part of the discussion and went on memory. 50-50.

 

[Airgemini]

When he's off the stage throw Turnips. If he Side Bs to recover use Nair or Usmash if he goes above you since they'll have the priority.

 

[Cia]

hmm.. i played about 5 foxes and at least 2 of them were pretty good. i think peach has serious advantage in this match up.

Pros

- Peach can chain grab Fox to about.. 35? (maybe more) before doing Using the Ftilt, and chasing the air dodge with another grab. aka The easy 50%
- Fox can be triple Dair'd > Uair
- Peach can out camp fox
- Nair beats fox's FowardB
- Fox's UpB is slow and predictable so you can toad it.
- Turnips **** his recovery
- Peach can float away from Fox's Utilt spam
- Fair will out range all of Fox's moves (this does not mean try to challenge Usmash.. you will lose)

Cons

- Fox's Usmash is extremely effective and can kill peach somewhere in the 80s on most stages.
- Powerful aerials. a smart fox will learn to bait you into over using float approach.
- Peach can be shine-locked against a wall. and shined down the wall on Yoshi's Island.

overall, i'd say the match up is 65-35. Peach's Favor

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Fox can be irritating at times as his aerials are surprisingly decent. The majority of Fox's I've fought will try to rack up damage via Dair --> Up Tilt. Peach's Up Tilt/F Tilt will knock him out of this (watch out for shine stalling) and if you do get stuck in his Up tilt, you can Nair out of it

 

[gantrain05]

well my fox isn't exactly "pro" but i played dark.pch a few times on lagfi lol, but just a few things i've noticed, cuz i've never played the matchup from fox's perspective......peach's priority is a ***** for fox....seriously, it was rough trying to approach, it might have some to do with the couple frames of lag and i couldn't react quickly, but it seemed like every single arial peach has outprioritizes fox's, Utilt lock is useless, as is laser spam i dunno, maybe its cuz i don't know the matchup well, but it was hell for me lol.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

no your relatively right Gantrain, the only way i've been able to beat out peachs aerials is Fair. other than that only if i can space Bair or Uair. laser spam is kinda meh on FD from the other side it at least gives her a few clocks but not much.

 

[M@v]

The Fox boards came up with even on this one. We actually did this one not too long ago. Thanks again peach boards; a lot of you guys came over to help us out! I want to start practicing with peach more often; I like her unique play style.

Here is the summary of the matchup I made in the fox matchup guide.

"Dont be deceived by the formal dress. Although Princess Peach is not as good as her melee form, she is still a force to be reckoned with. Peach has an amazing recovery, A good air game, and, suprisngly, a 40% CG on you. Her greatest strength, however, might be the fact she has such a strange play style. And due to the lack of Peach players, this can cause confusion in opponents. I have been experimenting with Peach, and she is hard to learn due to this. She is light, but in this fight this isnt a glaring weakness, since Fox is no heavy weight himself. Her weakness comes with KOing. She has 3 Solid KO moves: Upsmash, Fair, and Fsmash. They all have their flaws. Upsmash can rival fox's upsmash in terms of power, but its sweetspot to do this is very small, at the tip of the crown. Fair has a slow startup, and this move is easy to see coming. If your over 100% and peach is floating toward you; expect fair. Fsmash has 3 different forms, a Golf Club, a Tennis Racket, and a Frying Pan. The Golf club is the best for KOing. Problem is, the weapon peach uses is completely random.
To fight peach, avoid being grabbed at low percents. Its hard to uptilt combo her, but fair and nair do well against her in the air. Upsmash, as always, is a great killer. Most likely, you will both be living to high percents. When this happens, watch for peach's 3 kill moves.
This is even, depsite the Princess's Chaingrab."

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Actually, Peach's best KOing fsmash is a sweetspotted tennis racket. That thing sends low and gains a huge power boost if it's hit just right, outclassing the golf club's sweetspot, too.

Her up smash has two sweetspots, actually. Past the crown is her second strongest. Her first strongest point of the smash is by her shoulderpads, which if you try to side b through her you will trade with, and it kills at lower percents than the one with her hand. I just wanted to give you a heads up on those two, because it wasn't in your writeup and could possibly change a few things now that Peach has two killing fsmashes and a super sweetspot you HAVE to look out for during recovery.

 

[Praxis]

The Fox boards came up with even on this one. We actually did this one not too long ago. Thanks again peach boards; a lot of you guys came over to help us out! I want to start practicing with peach more often; I like her unique play style.

You guys came up with even? I thought it was almost universally 55:45 with the exception of Edrees (60:40) and xIblisx (50:50)?

 

[Airgemini]

Is Ftilt effective against all of Sonic Fox's approaches?

 

[gantrain05]

Is Ftilt effective against all of Sonic Fox's approaches?

yes lol.

10lols

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Is Ftilt effective against all of Sonic Fox's approaches?

-____-

I'm gonna give you games on Wi Fi when I can...yea there'll be lag but you'll see!

F Tilt does work pretty well vs Fox's approaches. It certainly can stop his Dair approach and I think it either beats out or clanks with his dash attack?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah on the Fox boards its set as even, even though most people did feel its 45-55 peach. i'll bother M@v about it later. and lol @ Ftilt, it can stop alot of everything.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm going to copypasta from the fox thread

This is one of my easiest personal matchups because it's one of the matchup I know best in this entire game. I feel it is a 60-40 advantage for Peach.

What it breaks down to is that both characters will get each other to very high percents to get a kill. Fox's upsmash will be VERY hard to land on Peach because she will dair if you approach her float. Like Gea said you can float out of it's range but if he tries it and misses down air has enough range to get him for it. Also, Peach's back our outprioritizes any of Fox's aerials, at the very least trading hits with it if Fox spaces right and Peach spaces wrong. What Fox can do in this matchup is play really defensively with lasers and run away and play defensive, and throw hits in when she's showing openings because of these lasers. This makes the matchup closer and attainable for Fox, but if he plays aggressive he's going to get crushed by Peach's priority. I like to just shield to neutral air the drill - you have enough time before he can follow up, even if he mixes it up and tries a grab after the drill (what a smart fox may try if you keep shielding drill to up tilt). Fox can have a chance with Peach in the air but he must space those back airs realllly well in the air. Fox can land many grabs on Peach due to his speed so that helps him for damage, but he won't get any follow up attacks (besides more damage with lasers) out of it.

Peach has a very strong Gimp on fox. Down air. If you down air fox during his up b but do not execute the final hit of down air, he will just fall down wards. You simply need to do this once or twice to get him under the stage enough for an edgehog. It's a really, really effective tactic forcing Fox to always side B. Which forward smash outprioritzes (and if you space yourself right, just shield it and upsmash out of shield, it's a way for Peach to get a good early kill in ) I know the matchup insanely well as I have played and defeated Champ, Uchiha and Gamble . Peach definitely has some solid advantage.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i feel just like Edreess said when i play Fox against a peach.

 

[Collective of Bears]

We've already covered this on the Fox boards. 50:50.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

And I believe you have covered it wrong No one did anything to disapprove my post yet you still arrived at 50;50, so I'm not sure where that came from.

 

[M@v]

Its not a huge to do, 55:45 or 50:50, its still a close fight. We can always change it.

 

[Praxis]

We've already covered this on the Fox boards. 50:50.

And I do believe 90% of the people involved in the discussion agreed on a slight advantage to Peach.

Ok peach next. Im actually giving peach a slight advantage here, probably 45:55 peach, for one reason: she has a 30% CG on fox.

I play a ton vs a friend who mains peach, and yes I agree that its a slight peach advantage. Right after he CG she can land a f-tilt without many problems either. Other than that dair combos work well watch out for her jab as its lightning fast and can lead into that early CG.

i feel this discussion is going too much into peach's chaingrab....its nice but most pro peach's will tell you that they really aren't going to rely on it, basically what i see in this match is peach can combo fox, while fox cannot combo peach, so he really has to find openings and its not so easy with peach's floating and autocancelled arials, i don't think its even my opinion is 60-40 peach.

Its probably 55 in Peach's favor. She has options and outdoes nearly everything you can do except kill, which if you can be patient and bait her into laggy moves that you can usmash, you can definitely win this.

I'd also like to congratulate the Fox boards on being very realistic and humble with their matchup discussion, instead of being like some character boards and thinking you always have neutral/advantage.

Bravo.

I don't think the advantage is to peach just because of CG. Heck, I don't ever really use it and I still kick Fox's butt with Dair -> Utilt. Ftilt to punish Fox's aerials. Turnips to limit approaches, Insta-Dsmash to get Rolling-whores out of the way, and Dairs to punish Fox's recovery.

This is one of my easiest personal matchups because it's one of the matchup I know best in this entire game. I feel it is a 60-40 advantage for Peach.

IMO i think this match would be a 45:55 Peach advantage.

Oh yes! I forgot we are speaking generally here, and I'm really thinking about great Peach players.

If both players are decent then 50:50.

However if both are really good, the scale tilts a little bit 45:55 Peach.

Understandable?

 

[M@v]

just a side note, peach has been changed back to 45:55 peach. Its my fault :O

 

[Zhamy]

Yeah, I thought we had agreed on 55:45 too?

 

[DanGR]

I managed to beat one of, if not the best fox' in the southeast with my week old Peach when I first began using her. Her dair ruins a lot of his approaches and nair wrecks his recovery- something I can't really do with a lot of characters. I think it's a clear 60-40 on paper.

Peach has a very strong Gimp on fox. Down air. If you down air fox during his up b but do not execute the final hit of down air, he will just fall down wards.

How do you do this?

 

[White-Peach]

Float back(or forward) while he's stuck in the DAir, the last hit doesnt connect.

 

[Praxis]

I managed to beat one of, if not the best fox' in the southeast with my week old Peach when I first began using her. Her dair ruins a lot of his approaches and nair wrecks his recovery- something I can't really do with a lot of characters. I think it's a clear 60-40 on paper.


How do you do this?

Fast fall the dair. Dair pins fox down, but if fast falled you'll go all the way through him before the last hit.

I think it's a clear 60-40 on paper.

While my vote was for 55-45, I think 60-40's not unreasonable. There are several examples of high level Peaches beating high level Foxes, but not the opposite.