Peach Tactical GD

[Eddie G]

Eh...some old fashioned good spacing and smart reads are better than an over-abundance of turnips. They're an essential tool to Peach's game, sure, but there are more important aspects of her game to maintain and refine.

 

[Zankoku]

I think the best part of Peach's turnip game is that they'll have to deal with the rest of Peach's stuff once they actually get past that.

 

[White-Peach]

hey I went to pound4 this year and used peach x)

 

[Silly Kyle]

Turnips are super important for Peach. Smart turnip usage usually results in good spacing, gimping, mindgames, and the chance to pull out something good. I know I frequently pull out good stuff like all the time haha. <3

 

[deepseadiva]

Eh...some old fashioned good spacing and smart reads are better than an over-abundance of turnips.

Space with turnips! :D

Free pull + Bonewalk + Ledgepull + Glidetoss results in some of the best movement in the game. And even still, I'm still learning turnip dashing.

I agree with Kyon, turnips are the soul of Peach - she'd be nonviable without them.

 

[Xyless]

Plus spacing and reads aren't as useful against MK, who outspaces and outdoes her in aggressive combat. Turnips are the turning point for the match.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Turnips are essential in the MK matchup! They are truly an annoyance for him and a deterrent for some of the bull**** he pulls in matches. <3

 

[lloDownedu74]

*highfives hotgarbage for playing wifi*

Yeah, dsmash is a great move because it prevents your opponent from trying to shield grab everything. The problem is that people can power shield and side step all of it, leaving peach vulnerable, but that's what makes this game interesting, right?

I am in love with turnips. I'd say they make up 70% of my MK game. You can "set them up" around the stage by having random turnips thrown in the air, as well as direct throws to your opponent. If you can time it right, you can have 2-3 turnips hitting your opponent right after one another. With all the cool tricks you can do (Free pull, bone walking, glide tossing, reverse glide tossing, etc), Peach can be all over the stage just having random turnips being thrown everywhere. Turnips can also defend Peach while she does something else, for example, throw a turnip up, walk back a little, and charge an fsmash. If you throw a turnip upward and you happen to get grabbed, the turnip can hit your opponent and get you out of the grab. Also, turnips are great for edge guarding, specifically against people like Olimar. And finally, getting turnip combos, such as z-drop into nair, turnip->usmash, etc, then its great because 1) you get mroe damage done, and 2) it can sometimes make your opponent feel like you're in control of the match, not them, causing them to start panicking.

So, long story short, dsmash is a great move, and turnips are beast

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think the best part of Peach's turnip game is that they'll have to deal with the rest of Peach's stuff once they actually get past that.

BINGO! Great way to phrase it. I always post in matchup discussions against characters with no projectiles (Marth, Kirby) and say that usually Peach is even with these characters because she gets such a leg up in controlling the match with turnips, even if they don't ever connect.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I honestly think that a Peach that plays a top mk here in the USA with out turnips will always lose.... Even though we already do. Just worse.

 

[Eddie G]

This just in: d-tilt (once believed to be one of our saving graces on the ground against MK) is overrated and extremely situational. Jab, reverse glide toss, and f-smash (with a turnip in hand) your assses off in that matchup people. D-smash sometimes too since it's been known (from my experience against him) to beat his to the punch.

 

[Metatitan]

There is no saving grace against mk Beefums. D tilt is always pretty situational but it's more useful than f tilt IMO.

 

[White-Peach]

can frame-data junkies tell me if DTilt is a legit way of starting an UAir string? :o (i dont think it is but I want to know for sureee)

 

[Eddie G]

There is no saving grace against mk Beefums. D tilt is always pretty situational but it's more useful than f tilt IMO.

I know.

'Twas still overly-praised for a short time if you can recall.

 

[Metatitan]

I know.

'Twas still overly-praised for a short time if you can recall.

It was only praised as an OoS attack to use after mk completes a full f tilt on your shield (which they like, never do).

 

[deepseadiva]

D tilt is always pretty situational but it's more useful than f tilt IMO.

Uhm, wat.

Ftilt, after jab and turnip stuff, is her best ground move.

 

[Zankoku]

Eh, dtilt might work as some random pressure mixup if you inexplicably get them to respect your pressure (in Smash? Yeah, right.), since it hits low and sends at a more useful angle than dsmash, but ftilt is significantly quicker, making it useful for poking out of pressure against yourself; and in a game more centered around defensive options than offensive ones, I can't see a pressure mixup gimmick being more useful than a fast poke.

 

[hotgarbage]

can frame-data junkies tell me if DTilt is a legit way of starting an UAir string? :o (i dont think it is but I want to know for sureee)

Ditilt always sends your opponent into tumble so it depends on what they do really. If they try and jump out of stun it should work at certain percents. If they do a quick aerial out of stun you'll get beaten to the punch. If they AD then you could catch them with it on the ground, but it'll only work if they're tall enough (the uair string thread lists characters it works against on the ground). There's also DI to consider. If they DI towards you your life is made much easier, but if they DI away I doubt you could get there in time.

EDIT:

Where have you been hot?

Life :X. There's lots of things I want to work on but I don't know when I'll get around to it :I.


RANDOM STUFF TIME
- Against a grounded DK/Bowser your ftilt/jab effectively have more range than your dtilt due to your low-hitting dtilt slipping under their head while the former moves nail them.
- Marth in the air leans forward a bit.... kinda like this: " / ". This is especially obvious when he's in the middle of a fair. Because of this when challenging his fair with your own your own it's ideal that you be slightly above him so you're aiming for his head/torso. If you aim for his feet it's easier for him to beat you. Can you guys think of any other situations where your opponent's hitbox quirks would effect how you use your moves?

- Has anyone here tried using Snakes grenades to deliberately activate toad? I mean that sounds gimmicky as all hell , but kinda novel.

 

[deepseadiva]

Hot, are you on aim?

I feel like I've asked before....

Has anyone here tried using Snakes grenades to deliberately activate toad? I mean that sounds gimmicky as all hell , but kinda novel.

Ha! I've been practicing this the last few days. Toad really is a fantastic move when it's activated - it finally hit me that an attack with a timer might be its best friend.

I still don't get the timing on those things though. Is it THREE seconds? Four? I need to watch some Snake videos.

 

[hotgarbage]

Hot, are you on aim?

I feel like I've asked before....

I created an account a few days ago but forgot to put it in my profile. It's there now!

Ha! I've been practicing this the last few days. Toad really is a fantastic move when it's activated - it finally hit me that an attack with a timer might be its best friend.

I still don't get the timing on those things though. Is it THREE seconds? Four? I need to watch some Snake videos.

I'm pretty sure it's three seconds. Also it's worth noting that even Ally messes up the timing sometimes. It'd definitely take some practice to get it to work.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I use toad when fighting olimar's. The men activate it when they cling to you.

 

[Metatitan]

Uhm, wat.

Ftilt, after jab and turnip stuff, is her best ground move.

F tilt kind've sucks, it's only really useful OoS and sooometimes as anti aerial, but even then a ground float uair is better anti aerial.

 

[hiROI]

On the grenade, it literally says 3.0
So its three seconds.

 

[Metatitan]

Three seconds exactly? That might be useful to remember, I always just instinctively knew when they'd go off. Now I have an exact time frame.

 

[deepseadiva]

On the grenade, it literally says 3.0
So its three seconds.

loool

This is true and lulzy.

http://www.brawlsnapshots.com/snapshots/183518.jpg

F tilt kind've sucks, it's only really useful OoS and sooometimes as anti aerial, but even then a ground float uair is better anti aerial.

A ranged, powerful, speedy move with a long-duration hitbox is "sucky"?

*cough cough*

 

[Metatitan]

A ranged, powerful, speedy move with a long-duration hitbox is "sucky"?

*cough cough*

A move that comes out pretty quickly but can be punished with virtually anything when powershielded (which is often) and by many other things when regularly shielded is good? *cough cough*

Let's face it, none of Peach's tilts are really good, they're all great at doing one or two things. F tilt for things coming in at a 45 degree angle, Up tilt for things above you, and D tilt for grounded people.

As far as ground game is goes turnips= or > jab>f smash>d smash/tilt> the other two tilts.

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach Ftilt
Hitbox: 6-16 (11 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 36 (20 frames of cooldown)

Snake Utilt
Hitbox: 6-13 (7 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 37 (24 frames of cooldown)

Barring kill power, Peach's ftilt is better than Snake's utilt and equal in range, speed, and damage. It just has cooldown, ohnoez.

It's amazing.

 

[Metatitan]

Peach Ftilt
Hitbox: 6-16 (11 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 36 (20 frames of cooldown)

Snake Utilt
Hitbox: 6-13 (7 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 37 (24 frames of cooldown)

Barring kill power, Peach's ftilt is better than Snake's utilt and equal in range, speed, and damage. It just has cooldown, ohnoez.

It's amazing.

There's some major differences and comparing those two moves is hilarious (no offense).

1. Snake's up tilt is all disjoint. Peach's f tilt is not.
2. Snake can risk getting punished now and again since the reward for his risk (up tilt) is much better than peach's for her f tilt.
3. They're both easily baited and punished accordingly. Peach can't afford to be punished as much. Therefore as far as peach is concerned, f tilt is not as useful to her as snake's up tilt is to him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Heh heh heh.

Not Bad Meno getting at this dudefor this false info he is spitting out. When ever you want me to tag in, just say the word. But so far you are doing good. I am impressed.

 

[Metatitan]

I use f tilt plenty, but saying it's better than f smash is laughable. It's a good move but relatively punishable compared to her other attacks and with peach's weight she can't afford much punishment.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Hey, I got nothing to say. I am just sitting here watching all of this. You can say and think what you want.

 

[mosesrko24]

what is the purpose of debating which moves are best

 

[Razmakazi]

that's an interesting find meno. snake's utilt is definitely as punishable and unsafe as a bad peach ftilt would be, it's just that snake's is raw disjoint, power, and the raaaaaaaaange which makes it about 10 times better.

 

[Eddie G]

Peach Ftilt
Hitbox: 6-16 (11 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 36 (20 frames of cooldown)

Snake Utilt
Hitbox: 6-13 (7 frames of hitbox)
Duration: 37 (24 frames of cooldown)

Barring kill power, Peach's ftilt is better than Snake's utilt and equal in range, speed, and damage. It just has cooldown, ohnoez.

It's amazing.

Good? Yes.
Amazing? Not necessarily.

As Raz pointed out: Snake's u-tilt is raw disjoint, has more range, and even though he has more cooldown he can take most kind of punishment better than Peach can for her move, granted his weight and everything.

All comparison aside, it really is just an average move. There's nothing extraordinary about it aside from an occasional anti-aerial/kill/gtfo attack.

I do, however, believe that the right mindset is not to focus too much on a single move and its capabilities, because then players tend to focus more on that move instead of just allowing their knowledge of their character to let them enter a "flow" state of mind (aka being in-the-zone). Imo and from my experience, if one does not let oneself enter said state of mind, their mind and judgment will be too clouded to perform at their very best potential. When everything, including one's character and stage knowledge, becomes more instinctive rather than a reoccurring thought during gameplay...then they're on the right track.

Sorry for my thoughts just flowing out into text. I know you mean well with your research/presentation though. :3

 

[Meru.]

Ftilt is useful. That's all. Really, do you expect Ftilt to be like Melee Dsmash. It has it's purposes and greatly succeeds at that. It allows you shut down some of your opponent's options (for example aerial approaching) and that is already. Like Kbizzle shizzle dizzle said, don't focus on just one move.

Use Ftilt whenever you have to use it, it should succeed.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

One night me and praxis was talking about that move. We both use it to kill at high percent. Ether I fair to forward tilt or I fair walk a slight bit then tilt. Works well for me anyway.....

 

[White-Peach]

Yeah I use it as a kill move more often than anything else. But I know it has applications for it's range. Seeing Mikey's use of FTilt was amazing in this match (2:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03xQpiUEdDs). FTilt has some nice hitboxes that can be abused for different things :o

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I juggle fat people with it and punish air dodge

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

I would also like to mention that Ftilt does have some disjointed range because I have stopped a bomb with it. :V

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Im with Meta on this one - F Smash is better than F Tilt in most respects

Trying to compare it to Snakes Up Tilt...well I disagree I'll say that much. It might be similar in range and timing but

- The disjoint of Snake's Up Tilt is not only deceptive but he doesn't fling his hurtbox out like Peach does with her leg when she uses F Tilt. This helps him avoid punishment and also prevents moves from trading hits which is extremely dangerous considering Peach's light weight

- At nearly any percent, Snake's Up Tilt has the power to knock you back from potential punishment and because of this he can escape. Peach lacks that power, especially on the weak part of her F Tilt which means if someone gets hit by it at any low/mid percent, they won't go anywhere and can punish Peach after she's used it. The power on Snake's Up Tilt also pushes back shields a lot more than Peach's F Tilt

Don't get me wrong, I've advised it as an anti aerial move for quite a while but it is horribly punishable and if it gets shielded you can nearly always expect to be punished. With F Smash, it pushes shields back, knocks people back considerably more than F Tilt does if it connects and she isn't flinging her hurtbox out like she does with F Tilt