Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[#HBC | ZoZo]

6-4 zss favor

use mobility
I know this mu really well
but suck at descriptions

 

[Zero]

Maybe you should attend your Literature classes to help you with that. ;3

 

[Rybaia]

Not Peach again. =(
You know what's coming.. =/
6-4 for ZSS.
Fair and Bair works very well agains her.
Then basically read Dakpo and Nefarious previous posts.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

This match up thread mindgamed me so hard, I was trying to get to go through the pages of this to the 'Last page' but apparantly this IS the current last page...why have you got like, an extra 6 pages? D:

ZSS is strange, I've only played vs her a couple of time and I found myself heavily camping on the ground with Turnips and trying to punish her OoS. Being in the air isn't that amazing for Peach unless ZSS is grounded because she can't Fair/Bair camp her because of her long range aerials/Side B. ZSS has a tether grab which makes things fun for Peach if she's Fairing your shield. If she double Jabs you might be able to grab her buuuut someone might want to check that. What OoS options does ZSS have minus Up Tilt and Jab?

The most irritating thing I found when playing vs ZSS is her Bair and Uair. Bairs got silly range so Peach has to use Turnips OoS to try and catch ZSS on the way down when her Bair has hit her shield. Watch out for Peach's F Tilt/F Smash, they'll hit you out of Bair if they connect so if Peach likes using them, bait them and then go for the hit. Peach's Dash attack (the 2nd hit mainly) has loltastic disjoint which she can use to catch you out as you're landing on the ground. Uair is the most frightening thing imo for Peach, airdodging it simply leaves Peach open to get hit so I'd usually prematurely throw out Dair on the way down to try and connect with ZSS before her Uair hit Peach. Side B hurts but its not that fast and D Smash can be punished on block (I think :x)

Your recovery is pretty good so you shouldn't worry about getting gimped unless you don't have Down B or your 2nd Jump, cause Turnips wreck tether recoveries. Peach can intercept your Down B but its always a risk cause if things don't work out, she'll get spiked. When Peach is recovering, use your tether to your advantage! Peach has nasty landing lag from her Up + B so often, she'll go for the sweetspot of the ledge to avoid that. If you tether so you're hanging slightly out of her way, you force her to either land on the stage or die lol

Oh, and Peach's who approach with Float, paticularly Floating Dair, are bad (unless its Wi Fi). By approach, I mean from the other side of the stage/mid-long distance range. Its asking to get pulverized

If I had to give a ratio, I'd say its pretty even like 50-50 or 55-45 (dunno who's favour), I think 60:40 either side is too extreme. Peach's ground game is solid enough to take on ZSS (reliance on her ground game means her Fair is nice and fresh which is a plus) but ZSS has some really good aerials coupled with fast attacks and fast movement

 

[Zero]

OOS options: uair, dtilt, ftilt, dash away.

Personally I feel that Peach's fair pressure is very shallow. It's very instinctive to try and punish it straight away, but just wait for the inevitable jab to follow and then read their option from there.

>single jab - dash away or jump away is probably safest option. Jumping is 5 frames and a second jab will punish a jump out. Spotdodge may also be the safest option, as it beats both grab and second jab and allowss you to punish. Just don't get too predictable or you'll eat a fsmash or something.

>double jab - normal OOS options, have fun.

I also think that you should really abuse your ground speed in this matchup. If you see Peach leave the ground within dashing distance of you, dash in and uair. It's as simple as that. Abuse your huge uair hitbox and your great run speed.

I'm not convinced that this is an even matchup since Peach's shield pressure game is, IMO, quite shallow and revolves around her (amazing) jab. (turnip ->) fair -> jab mixup feels like the extent of it. Just remember to hold your shield UP when shielding fair since it shield pokes.

ZSS slight advantage, so 6:4.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Wut, jumping 7 frames?

U goin down on dem L's mayn?

 

[Zero]

FIXED.

10****yous

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ftilt is as fast as dash attack

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I was not going to comment on this because I don't feel like arguing about it, but I found Snakeee's ZSS to be pretty easy when I played Peach vs him online the other night. Keep in mind when I say "online," I'm talking about a guy who lives like 3 miles from me, we had a blue connection and there was no lag. I think I have the best Peach of any ZSS main that posts here, and I also play one of the better Peaches in the country often, so maybe I can give a little advice.

Dair is **** on ZSS' shield, so shield as little as possible or you will get punished for it. You can utilt dair OOS but don't time it wrong or you get combo'd. Peach will also retreating dair to get you to do something laggy and then punish.

It can be very hard for Peach to escape ZSS' aerial combos but her ground game is so, much, better, that it's less a factor than it seems like it would be. Learn the timing of Peach's air dodge and learn to beat dair. Not because Peach will float with it, but because she will often SH dair when in close range and it's really important to know how to beat it. As a side note, Peach players sometimes (rarely) set up combos using the first few hits of dair and then jab, similar to the way Fox players use dair. These strings are escapable, just down-b out or shield.

Turnip camping is only a big deal if you spam side-b a lot. Side-b is thus not as good in this match-up. Dash attack, back air, and dtilt are your friends. Dsmash is your friend, too. Rick, dsmash is safe on block. It has -5 and pushes peach back a bit, there's nothing she can really do.

Peach punishes predictable recoveries badly. Don't do the same thing every time when coming up from the ledge. In general, I wouldn't recommend using +100% get-up ever. Recover smart. If you ever find yourself in a position where you are 45-degrees south of the ledge, you are going to die, so don't be there.

Uh, that's all for now.

In my opinion, Peach wins this match-up. By how much I can't say for sure. It's hard for ZSS to deal with Peach's crazy shield pressure (which is one-dimensional, but so is ZSS' OOS game, lol. "Is she going to utilt or roll?! OH GOD I DONT KNOW") and her jab is really obnoxious. In the air ZSS wins hard, but it's simply a matter of how much control ZSS can have over the match at any given time.

 

[Snakeee]

Good stuff. Do keep in mind I drank an entire bottle of Hypnotic

 

[Rybaia]

Hypnotic

What's that?
I wanna try it

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Good stuff. Do keep in mind I drank an entire bottle of Hypnotic

1. No johns
2. You're the one who said "WOW I AM PLAYING SO WELL AND YOU ARE STILL WINNING!"

 

[Blakmane]

Personally, i've found Peaches to be reasonably easy to deal with as well. However, i'm not sure that casual games against peach is very indicative of the true MU- the typical playstyle of peach is the problem, rather than the character herself I feel. Most peach players I know attempt to approach through the air, which allows for an immediate punish with an aerial of your choice. Dair approaches should always be punished as we outprioritise with uair and bair. Also, the peach player I play against regularly always draws a turnip as first action on reflex, and *always* gets hit by my first suit piece. When he plays differently and keeps grounded, peach becomes much more difficult to deal with.

I find Side-b is fine on peach: in most situations where she could turnip you, she could also just shield, and you shouldn't really be side-bing in those situations anyway (given, I still use side-b too much as is anyway. I think most ZSS mains do).

 

[Nefarious B]

Jab is a nice OOS option in this matchup too, SH uair is also pretty safe if you retreat it.

 

[deepseadiva]

Hey.

Hey ZSS boards.

You're thread is broke.

Also: Side-b only when Peach doesn't have a turnip.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I personally love fighting peaches, i know the match up fairly well... The thing with fighting peach is knowing the height in which the peach play will linger. This makes the super super easy to fair. They always go for Dair at the start of a stock and you can meet them with a fair before they get the chance. Also if the like to float high then a running Upsmash will take care of them. If you take away peach's air game then its game. also the crap disrupts there spacing along with us camping with Side B and Nut.B. Since she is in the Air sooo much this take away the greatest weapon against zss....run and shield. Although i am not to say that she cant do it, but her ground game is not that great besides the freakin slap >_<. peach is light and has a tough time killing. True peach players will know how to sway while floating very well and will lure you in to traps easily so if you get caught in dair with your shield up DONT LET GO TILL SHE TOUCHES GROUND, cause she will dair again and again and again or nair lol. Dont get caught under her is the best advice along with predicting her air game. imo 6-4 zss favor

This Post right here actually means nothing to this topic at a.. The reason I say this is cause you just pretty much went on about a typical Peach and went for the Play-By-Play. Now if you have to do that to dicribe a match up, this means nothing. It's like fighting a boss battle in a ction game that usually do an attack or defending based on thier HP or how close you are too them. Look at this:

"They always go for Dair at the start of a stock and you can meet them with a fair before they get the chance. "

So you mean to tell me, I will always go for a Dair at the start? I had no clue I always do that. You know me too well sir.

What you are describing right now is a typical Peach that knows nothing but being in the air. or one of your friends that just goes air happy and seriously does not know how the MU is.

Now you also say if you take away her ground game, it's over? Again, a typical state and judgement. Just cause you use to seeing peach players being in the air 24/7 does not mean thats how the character runs. Peach actually has a ground game that is just as good her air game. But Peaches loves the air alot and don't focus on thier ground game. A Peach that has a gound game can shut Down ZSS. Really since her ground game is not all good. I can do air pressure and continue it on the ground. You can't do anything. Peach is a Beast at pressure and ZSS sucks when pressure. Do the math.

"Since she is in the Air sooo much this take away the greatest weapon against zss....run and shield. "

"cause she will dair again and again and again or nair lol."

See what I mean? I for one don't stay in the air alot. I hardly float for that matter. Why? Cause I know the typical Peach play And know what people would expect. And your post is a prime example of it. If you was ever to play me thinking this You would not get as much as a stock off me at best. Now this is not being cocky or anything. This is real talk. A smart players players would know what others expect to see. And them hit them with something else. Your post is based on a beginner/novice level. We talking high competition. Top Peach player material.

I dont need to be in the air all the time. I dont need to be swinging fair all the time. I dont have to do the same typical set up/approach like turnip to fair to jab. Or glide toss to Jab. Or bair to a roll or Dsmash. Pretty much, I dont have to play typical and general. Thats a player problem if they do, not a character trait. People need to learn the different.

And I think people need to keep this in mind more before posting about match ups.

6-4 zss favor

use mobility
I know this mu really well
but suck at descriptions

Means nothing.

I was not going to comment on this because I don't feel like arguing about it, but I found Snakeee's ZSS to be pretty easy when I played Peach vs him online the other night. Keep in mind when I say "online," I'm talking about a guy who lives like 3 miles from me, we had a blue connection and there was no lag. I think I have the best Peach of any ZSS main that posts here, and I also play one of the better Peaches in the country often, so maybe I can give a little advice.

Dair is **** on ZSS' shield, so shield as little as possible or you will get punished for it. You can utilt dair OOS but don't time it wrong or you get combo'd. Peach will also retreating dair to get you to do something laggy and then punish.

It can be very hard for Peach to escape ZSS' aerial combos but her ground game is so, much, better, that it's less a factor than it seems like it would be. Learn the timing of Peach's air dodge and learn to beat dair. Not because Peach will float with it, but because she will often SH dair when in close range and it's really important to know how to beat it. As a side note, Peach players sometimes (rarely) set up combos using the first few hits of dair and then jab, similar to the way Fox players use dair. These strings are escapable, just down-b out or shield.

Turnip camping is only a big deal if you spam side-b a lot. Side-b is thus not as good in this match-up. Dash attack, back air, and dtilt are your friends. Dsmash is your friend, too. Rick, dsmash is safe on block. It has -5 and pushes peach back a bit, there's nothing she can really do.

Peach punishes predictable recoveries badly. Don't do the same thing every time when coming up from the ledge. In general, I wouldn't recommend using +100% get-up ever. Recover smart. If you ever find yourself in a position where you are 45-degrees south of the ledge, you are going to die, so don't be there.

Uh, that's all for now.

In my opinion, Peach wins this match-up. By how much I can't say for sure. It's hard for ZSS to deal with Peach's crazy shield pressure (which is one-dimensional, but so is ZSS' OOS game, lol. "Is she going to utilt or roll?! OH GOD I DONT KNOW") and her jab is really obnoxious. In the air ZSS wins hard, but it's simply a matter of how much control ZSS can have over the match at any given time.

She does not win that hard not. Remember what I do to you when I am in the air. I tell you this so many times. And it something more Peach players should be doing.

Other than that, good post, But I disaggree with one thing. Your ratio. I don't Think Peach wins. I say it is an even fight.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

She does not win that hard not. Remember what I do to you when I am in the air. I tell you this so many times. And it something more Peach players should be doing.

Other than that, good post, But I disaggree with one thing. Your ratio. I don't Think Peach wins. I say it is an even fight.

When your'e in the air and I can't hit you it's because I"m failing to follow you correctly, not because Peach has an intrinsic quality that makes her hard to juggle.

 

[Blakmane]

peach is easy to juggle with ZSS, no? She's floaty and light, which is a bad combination. Float stalling isn't as effective due to ZSS's massive jumps and the fact that you can pull an up-b out as a response. U-air outprioritises every aerial peach has.

*edit*

seems weird that you are railing against the 'typical peach', DP. Typical peach is presumably typical peach for a reason: it's the optimum playstyle in most circumstances. If you are forced to change to a less optimum playstyle in order to cope with a character, it suggests that character has advantages over you which reduce your options. MUs are all about options.

 

[Nefarious B]

I think he's saying more about being predictable, which a lot of Peaches are it's true. It'd be the equivalent of ZS mains spamming side b paralyzer dsmash chains. If it's predictable, chances are it's probably not the most effective thing you can be doing a lot of times.

I agree with what Dark.Pch said in that regard, but he didn't really mention anything about the actual matchup which is disappointing since even though he's ridiculous he usually analyzes matchups in depth.

 

[Meru.]

The Inferior Blonde

OMG, get some creativity peh-lease.

6-4 zss favor

use mobility
I know this mu really well
but suck at descriptions

Yeah we're gonna MM again. You dont know this match-up at all.

This match-up is sooooooo even, its one of the most even match-ups in the game. Peach can pressure ZSS, ZSS can juggle Peach. ZSS has #$$%& aerials, Peach pressures shields, abusing ZSS' weakness. ZSS has better mobility, Peach has better attack speed. It all evens out, and the one who has the most control over the other wins.

 

[Dark.Pch]

When your'e in the air and I can't hit you it's because I"m failing to follow you correctly, not because Peach has an intrinsic quality that makes her hard to juggle.

Yea, you was not pay attention. I told you many times, if I just pull away and dont mess with you in the air, I dont get hit. The only time I have no choice but to test you in the air is if I am too close to pull back. other then that if I get sent to the air, I pull away from you and I dont get hit. Most Peach players tend to test ZSS in the air. which is hard to do and end up getting hit. I don't do that I just pull away from you. You should know this.

peach is easy to juggle with ZSS, no? She's floaty and light, which is a bad combination. Float stalling isn't as effective due to ZSS's massive jumps and the fact that you can pull an up-b out as a response. U-air outprioritises every aerial peach has.

*edit*

seems weird that you are railing against the 'typical peach', DP. Typical peach is presumably typical peach for a reason: it's the optimum playstyle in most circumstances. If you are forced to change to a less optimum playstyle in order to cope with a character, it suggests that character has advantages over you which reduce your options. MUs are all about options.

Read above.

And no, when I say typical I mean a type of play that lots do with thier character. like for Lucario they love to roll alot. For meta or rob, they love to side step to Dsmash. Peachs live to float alot to Dairs or love to Turnip to fair then Jab or Dsmash. This is something that people do who are not all that good with thier character. And how people start out with them. Thus "typical" game play with Peach"

I think he's saying more about being predictable, which a lot of Peaches are it's true. It'd be the equivalent of ZS mains spamming side b paralyzer dsmash chains. If it's predictable, chances are it's probably not the most effective thing you can be doing a lot of times.

I agree with what Dark.Pch said in that regard, but he didn't really mention anything about the actual matchup which is disappointing since even though he's ridiculous he usually analyzes matchups in depth.

You have a nack for insulting me when I done nothing to you or even talk to you for that matter. Mind telling me what your deal is?

Also I have not said anything on this match up yet cause I gone broke this down for like the third time alread and when I first saw this thread, I was correcting post I saw in here.

 

[Rybaia]

So Dark.Pch the last time we (the 2 boards) discussed the mu you said that Peach wins and other stuff.
Now you say that the mu is even.
What made you change your mind?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Sure Yaaay, but I've kinda stopped smashing lately. What about a MK vs Peach and a ZSS vs Peach? If you'd like, we can also do Falco vs Peach :D

 

[Dark.Pch]

So Dark.Pch the last time we (the 2 boards) discussed the mu you said that Peach wins and other stuff.
Now you say that the mu is even.
What made you change your mind?

I never said that the match up was in Peach Favor. I said I might see it as her favor soon because I learned this lil gay trick on ZSS. Once I get better control of this, I'm gonna abuse this in the match up and really see if I feel thatPeach has it. But no, I never said Peach wins. I always said it was even.

 

[Nefarious B]

You have a nack for insulting me when I done nothing to you or even talk to you for that matter. Mind telling me what your deal is?

I have no deal, I find it entertaining, but you have to admit you're kinda ridiculous. Please don't stop, it makes these boards much more entertaining, and I think that a lot of times what you say is spot on anyways. That word isn't really negative, it's just qualifying.

 

[GoofBall]

"Typical Peach" and "Optimum Peach" are VERY different playtyles.
VaNz and Dark.Pch are both great Peach players, right? But they both have COMPLETELY different playtyles.
Neither of them play "Typical Peach".
But both slay Zamus. Hmmm....

~Just sayin'

 

[Rybaia]

"Typical Peach" and "Optimum Peach" are VERY different playtyles.
VaNz and Dark.Pch are both great Peach players, right? But they both have COMPLETELY different playtyles.
Neither of them play "Typical Peach".
But both slay Zamus. Hmmm....

~Just sayin'

They slay "Typical Zamus" or "Optimum Zamus"?

 

[ph00tbag]

People still say, "Zamus"?

 

[Zero]

lol slay ZSS. nice construction you've made there.

 

[NickRiddle]

Ay yo, so let's have the same pointless discussion we did last time this was mentioned.
And then let's all get responded to by orange text.
I wish I could play a "top" Peach to see what I'm not understanding about the MU not being ZSS's favor.

 

[Blakmane]

Will there be any peaches at your next tourney, Nick? I think the only way to settle this difference is to have a recent high-level set as an example of the peach/zss MU.

 

[NickRiddle]

Will there be any peaches at your next tourney, Nick? I think the only way to settle this difference is to have a recent high-level set as an example of the peach/zss MU.

Kyon/Hiroi will both be there I think.
I could record a set vs. each of them if you guys want.

 

[Blakmane]

Yeah, I reckon that would be useful. May as well see if we can get some resolution on the peach issue.

Should we move on to another MU? Is there a character someone is burning to discuss?

 

[ThreeSided]

Zelda.

I know it's in our favor, and you won't be seeing a lot of Zelda's in tourney's, but I have a friend who mains Zelda who always wrecks me. I can take any advice I can get. She may be a crappy character, but he just knows her way too well...

 

[Eddie G]

When your'e in the air and I can't hit you it's because I"m failing to follow you correctly, not because Peach has an intrinsic quality that makes her hard to juggle.

If a Peach doesn't play this matchup on the ground for the majority of the fight (excluding instances of shield pressure and edgeguarding), she's just plain doing it wrong.

The safest way to play this matchup from Peach's end is heavily based on fakeouts and powershielding. ZSS is simply quicker to the punch in the air so she'll control it from a neutral position for the majority of the match. Peach's main goal is to approach on the ground and try to creep inside ZSS's range with timely powershielding, a turnip in hand (optional but safer if the ZSS is still out of close range after said powershield), and anticipation for any mixups the ZSS could use on the ground (dash attack, jab, d-tilt, u-tilt, and d-smash immediately come to my mind). It's not all that different from Peach vs Marth in that regard.

Defensively speaking, Peach has a slight edge. ZSS's approach options (for the most part) are relatively linear and are, again, very susceptible to powershielding. With proper turnip use, Peach can make it a very difficult task for ZSS to approach her.

So with that said, this matchup will usually reward the player who can establish momentum and take a solid lead first (if at all), a.k.a. outplaying your opponent rather than sheer exploitation of a tactic/CG/etc. in a respective character to character matchup, and is why I see this as one of the most even matchups Brawl has to offer.

50-50 split. No doubt in my mind.

Kyon/Hiroi will both be there I think.
I could record a set vs. each of them if you guys want.

We need to play next time I see you bro. I know this matchup very well so it could qualify as good reference material. :3

 

[LanceStern]

I would pay to see King Beef vs. NickRiddle.

Not really... but it would be amazing

 

[solecalibur]

Im already offering money to both parties to see Snakeee vs Nick riddle in a MM lol

 

[Dakpo]

Ok dark peach, sorry for bringing up general peach habits. We really do need to change this to Drk Peach vs Zss cause thats where the help really needs to be. If we can beat that one player than no peach stands a chance amiright?

 

[Moozle]

We all already know why Peach has the advantage in this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DAsF90HoU4

 

[Zero]

****ing Peach has a secret Bobomb factory undearneath Smashville LOL