infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I suppose if the opponent is RIGHT next to the edge then dash attacking would be okay, cause even if they shield it they get pushed off and grab the edge. But otherwise I agree with Dakpo.
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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheZeroSuit
- Start date
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
Battlefield, Delfino Plaza, maybe Lylat Cruise. PS1/2
BioDG
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 609
Yes, that's true about DA. As for me, though, I was curious about the overall viability of DA in the MU.
As for GnW, I played the MU terribly this weekend (pwii's GnW). No vids were saved, unfortunately.
He was the only character I lost to. I played him on SV, BF, and PS1. PS1 seemed like the best stage for me to work with whereas BF was the worst. I think I dealt with the platforms badly, though. One upside was that I could deal with his Metaknight well in friendlies, so GnW seemed like his best option in tourney.
A couple things I didn't realize until later was that it might have been good to usmash more often since it seemed to stop his aerials well. Fair wasn't working because of the spaced aerials, from what I could tell. Jabbing seemed to be good, too, to "clink" with his close range attacking (for lack of a better description). I remember reading that in the old posts, at least.
Gonna do my homework on this one.
As for GnW, I played the MU terribly this weekend (pwii's GnW). No vids were saved, unfortunately.
He was the only character I lost to. I played him on SV, BF, and PS1. PS1 seemed like the best stage for me to work with whereas BF was the worst. I think I dealt with the platforms badly, though. One upside was that I could deal with his Metaknight well in friendlies, so GnW seemed like his best option in tourney.A couple things I didn't realize until later was that it might have been good to usmash more often since it seemed to stop his aerials well. Fair wasn't working because of the spaced aerials, from what I could tell. Jabbing seemed to be good, too, to "clink" with his close range attacking (for lack of a better description). I remember reading that in the old posts, at least.
Gonna do my homework on this one.
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
where is the discussion on Pit is?
Dakpo
Smash Lord
he has now beat ybm and bio now O_O GnW is i think one of our best match ups
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
GnW is free for everyone but the MU just takes some learning.
Jump into bairs and SDI punish **** yeah
Jump into bairs and SDI punish **** yeah
Dakpo
Smash Lord
I love that. side B beats every spacing tool GnW has
BioDG
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 609
lol well it's good to hear it's not that bad. And yeah, I don't have much MU exp on it now that I think about it. The only other GnW I've played that wasn't forever ago was Panty Raider. I'll figure this one out!
btw, did he go GnW on YBM? I was under the assumption that he went Metaknight.
btw, did he go GnW on YBM? I was under the assumption that he went Metaknight.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
The main things about GnW are learning to avoid kill moves and learning to avoid nair, which overlap to some degree.
Also, his DA stage spikes if you're on the ledge, so watch out for that
Also, his DA stage spikes if you're on the ledge, so watch out for that
![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
I feel like we can gr to Uair.
Also usmash is very useful in this mu, beats key.
Also usmash is very useful in this mu, beats key.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
We can GR > Uair and if they have a habit of upB'ing we can wait and uair and kill at like 50% and if they airdodge/aerial you get a fair :B
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Or you can pick ic and run around and PG.
ViperGold42
Smash Lord
I'm thinking of having ZSS as my secondary for Sunday, so when my first character doesn't get the job done I can bust her out and ****.
BioDG
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 609
Tips on Marth? I'll probably have to fight one this weekend. The most part of what I know on the MU I know is to Shield>Uair if he attacks with aerials, shoot lasers if he's a ways out during the aerial approach and to shield all the way through DB. :o
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
If you can manage to SDI out of DB so that he whiffs the 4th hit, you get a free dtilt.
You can't SDI out of it if he
-Starts it with you right next to him
-Does the 2nd hit upward
If he DBs your shield, you can utilt OoS after the 3rd hit (sideways) if you're close enough. I think Marth's safest option if he's DBing your shield is to do the 3rd hit downard, and stop from there. So if he does that, do an utilt unless you're not close enough, then dtilt/DA-->follow up. I think shieldgrabbing will only work after the 3rd hit if he does the 3rd one not-downards...not sure though.
If he lands into you with an unspaced aerial you can also utilt OoS, remember that. Marth can't PS jab3 but he can upB out of it, so...yeah figure that out lol.
Don't charge dsmashes when he's out of dsmash range, he'll jump over and nair you and you'll die and stuff. Charging dsmashes is generally a bad idea unless he's landing from a juggle and you're reading an airdodge.
If you're on the ledge and you jump back onto the stage, watch out for dtilts that'll push you back off.
Dakpo likes usmash OoS in this MU apparently
You can't SDI out of it if he
-Starts it with you right next to him
-Does the 2nd hit upward
If he DBs your shield, you can utilt OoS after the 3rd hit (sideways) if you're close enough. I think Marth's safest option if he's DBing your shield is to do the 3rd hit downard, and stop from there. So if he does that, do an utilt unless you're not close enough, then dtilt/DA-->follow up. I think shieldgrabbing will only work after the 3rd hit if he does the 3rd one not-downards...not sure though.
If he lands into you with an unspaced aerial you can also utilt OoS, remember that. Marth can't PS jab3 but he can upB out of it, so...yeah figure that out lol.
Don't charge dsmashes when he's out of dsmash range, he'll jump over and nair you and you'll die and stuff. Charging dsmashes is generally a bad idea unless he's landing from a juggle and you're reading an airdodge.
If you're on the ledge and you jump back onto the stage, watch out for dtilts that'll push you back off.
Dakpo likes usmash OoS in this MU apparently
PEACE7
Smash Champion
If he does the downward dancing blade which is the green looking one you can sdi it and probably get an upair, ftilt or bair. One of the biggest things I usually watch out for in the mu is tippered nair and his upB, if he hits your shield with a nair i think the best punishing option is dtilt but sometimes if they miss with the nair they will automatically upB so watch out for that and Fastfall fair to upB near the ledge, if he does an upB and misses you can punish him with anything unless your on bf and he lands on a platform. Also if you happen to be playing on lets say sv and your on the platform avoid been too close to the ledge of the platform since if he jumps at you with a nair the nair will shieldpush for a free upB hit which can lead to an early stock. Reverse nb shots work well in the mu too since marth has to commit.
Dakpo
Smash Lord
If he does the full dancing blade then you get a free down smash from the lag, if he stops on the third hit, then you can upair, upsmash, tilts, grab..
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Tips against Lucario pleasee
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
One of my best friends plays Lucario but he doesn't go to tournaments so he's not good at all, but I'll try anyway lol.
Jump over grounded aura spheres with a jump away --> b-reversed sideB so that you fall towards him and hit him with it.
If he gets you in a fair chain, SDI away.
If his dair is big because of the aura, we can still beat it out by using uair when he's diagonally above and in front of us. The horizontal range on his dair isn't that good.
If he dairs you, SDI up.
At low percents (when Lucario is at low percents) if you hit him with a dtilt/utilt, he might go for a dair out of it. Off of utilt I think it's guaranteed but for dtilt you can get your shield up. Kinda like Falco's dair.
If he dairs your shield and he's close enough you can utilt him for it.
His sideB chaingrab doesn't work on us (you can downB out) and watch out for sideB throw-->sh fair-->ff nair.
If you space your jab1 he can't grab you out of it cause Lucario's grab range is trash.
Lucario likes FD, YI:B and Frigate cause they all help his recovery.
If you're trying to mash out of a grab at high percents, hold up while doing so. All his throws kill horizontally except for his dthrow, but that's laggy so you can change your DI on reaction. Like Olimar, except with him it's his uthrow that kills.
Uh...that's all I can think of.
Jump over grounded aura spheres with a jump away --> b-reversed sideB so that you fall towards him and hit him with it.
If he gets you in a fair chain, SDI away.
If his dair is big because of the aura, we can still beat it out by using uair when he's diagonally above and in front of us. The horizontal range on his dair isn't that good.
If he dairs you, SDI up.
At low percents (when Lucario is at low percents) if you hit him with a dtilt/utilt, he might go for a dair out of it. Off of utilt I think it's guaranteed but for dtilt you can get your shield up. Kinda like Falco's dair.
If he dairs your shield and he's close enough you can utilt him for it.
His sideB chaingrab doesn't work on us (you can downB out) and watch out for sideB throw-->sh fair-->ff nair.
If you space your jab1 he can't grab you out of it cause Lucario's grab range is trash.
Lucario likes FD, YI:B and Frigate cause they all help his recovery.
If you're trying to mash out of a grab at high percents, hold up while doing so. All his throws kill horizontally except for his dthrow, but that's laggy so you can change your DI on reaction. Like Olimar, except with him it's his uthrow that kills.
Uh...that's all I can think of.
BioDG
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 609
I wish I read that earlier while playing a million Lucario friendlies. I had the upper hand for the longest time till he started going in and grabbing every time I jumped for a spaced sideB (among other things). Then we just kept going back and forth.
Well-spaced dairs won't allow for utilt OoS...I'm guessing usmash is better in that case but I didn't try for it (or just run away?). Where would we CP Lucario?
Well-spaced dairs won't allow for utilt OoS...I'm guessing usmash is better in that case but I didn't try for it (or just run away?). Where would we CP Lucario?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
BF and Lylat seem good to me, but I'm just guessing
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Infinite him.
When you make it clear that you know the infinite, the Diddy will shield a lot when you have a banana. Pay attention to his OoS options and punish them.
That's all I know XD
Edit: Oh yeah, SDI dash attack up, and SDI the first hit of fsmash to avoid the 2nd.
If the Diddy hits you with the tip of the first hit of fsmash, SDI away. If you're close to him when he hits you with it, SDI up/up+behind Diddy/behind Diddy.
Basically, if Diddy gets you in a banana string and you know he's going to walk up to you and smash, hold up on the analog. If he's spaced, flick the C-stick away from him. If he's close, flick it behind him. That way you DSSDI the first hit of fsmash properly.
And, even if he dsmashes, you still DI it up.
When you make it clear that you know the infinite, the Diddy will shield a lot when you have a banana. Pay attention to his OoS options and punish them.
That's all I know XD
Edit: Oh yeah, SDI dash attack up, and SDI the first hit of fsmash to avoid the 2nd.
If the Diddy hits you with the tip of the first hit of fsmash, SDI away. If you're close to him when he hits you with it, SDI up/up+behind Diddy/behind Diddy.
Basically, if Diddy gets you in a banana string and you know he's going to walk up to you and smash, hold up on the analog. If he's spaced, flick the C-stick away from him. If he's close, flick it behind him. That way you DSSDI the first hit of fsmash properly.
And, even if he dsmashes, you still DI it up.
somebody's a pro. :O
BioDG
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 609
What about banana play? More specifically:
-When he has two bananas
-When I have one
-When he has one
-When we both have one
-When he has none and I am within range to grab and use both.
Speaking of infinites, what is the infinite on ROB that doesn't involve dsmash>turnaround>footstool>dair>repeat?
-When he has two bananas
-When I have one
-When he has one
-When we both have one
-When he has none and I am within range to grab and use both.
Speaking of infinites, what is the infinite on ROB that doesn't involve dsmash>turnaround>footstool>dair>repeat?
Dakpo
Smash Lord
I have put a lot of work into this match up. Including being the first US zss to do the infinite
What about banana play? More specifically:
-When he has two bananas- shield, watch for baits and landing trap. Remember he cant grab you, but he can glide toss under your feet and trip you. A little trick to the match up is to Immediately attack after you shield a banana because they usually don't expect it, and it is almost always their way to approach.
-When I have one- patience, openings come to those who wait
-When he has one- patience, don't let him gain control
-When we both have one- if he is better with items (which he shouldnt be if your a good enough player) then throw them off
-When he has none and I am within range to grab and use both. Use them!
Tip- if you slip on a banana that is just lying on the ground, then roll towards it as soon as you can and you will be able to buffer a pick up before it can trip you again. Also you can air dodge into the ground to pick them up, so you should never get landing trapped if its directly below you on the ground
Speaking of infinites, what is the infinite on ROB that doesn't involve dsmash>turnaround>footstool>dair>repeat?
when they are on the ledge simply spam N special....they cant get around it. Its an infinite
"true story"
What about banana play? More specifically:
-When he has two bananas- shield, watch for baits and landing trap. Remember he cant grab you, but he can glide toss under your feet and trip you. A little trick to the match up is to Immediately attack after you shield a banana because they usually don't expect it, and it is almost always their way to approach.
-When I have one- patience, openings come to those who wait
-When he has one- patience, don't let him gain control
-When we both have one- if he is better with items (which he shouldnt be if your a good enough player) then throw them off
-When he has none and I am within range to grab and use both. Use them!
Tip- if you slip on a banana that is just lying on the ground, then roll towards it as soon as you can and you will be able to buffer a pick up before it can trip you again. Also you can air dodge into the ground to pick them up, so you should never get landing trapped if its directly below you on the ground
Speaking of infinites, what is the infinite on ROB that doesn't involve dsmash>turnaround>footstool>dair>repeat?
when they are on the ledge simply spam N special....they cant get around it. Its an infinite
"true story"
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Dsmash>turnaround>footstool>dair/downB (either works)>uncharged paralyzer (forces a getup)>repeat.
The forced get up gives your fingers a break, so to speak, when compared to doing it the way you mentioned.
Im practicing that shiz as soon as I get a wii.
No, but that infinite sounds sexy.
Fangblade
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2014
- Messages
- 243
- 3DS FC
- 3454-0350-2864
Every time I select a match up it brings me to the wrong discussion, what's up with that?
Edit: Ok, thanks infinite. I need to get better before though so I don't ask dumb questions right off the bat.
Edit: Ok, thanks infinite. I need to get better before though so I don't ask dumb questions right off the bat.
Last edited:
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Yeah this thread is really old and I think after smashboards got the new format/got its makeover that messed with the hyperlinks
If you have any questions on how to approach certain MUs just ask them here and I'll help you out. Or in the Q&A thread
If you have any questions on how to approach certain MUs just ask them here and I'll help you out. Or in the Q&A thread