Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[Ishiey]

Yeah, that's something we'll be fixing for sure in the next round.

 

[-LzR-]

Seriously just get rid of Sheilda she is too damn pointless. We could as well have Charizard there. IDGAF if he has to switch.

 

[Luco]

We've been discussing and we're thinking the Lucas-pika match-up is probs a -1 or even 0. The pika mains who have commented on it seem to think so too. Thoughts?

 

[#HBC | J]

Haha we haven't finalized anything and we still have a lot of MUs to fix but things are going well.

We are though at a stale mate a tiny bit because some Pikas and some Lucas feel its 0 while like one or two on the other side of the fence (for both characters) feel its -1 due to past experiences. However we are pretty much close in figuring it out.

Than again, we are slowly beginning to fix our MUs now so yeah. ;P

 

[Orion*]

I don't know if I was then, but I'm more qualified than Orion to talk about Puff now aha

-dead- @ qualifications
like that is the main hindering problem for people to have their opinion voiced on SWF, or for the BR.

It's definitely a means to an end though. Thank god you don't write essays every post now at least, you and BPC have come a long way in terms of posting.

edit:

to outright gimp GW, even with MK is hard. to make him just take damage, or reset him going back offstage is not, regardless of character.
99% of the brawl community sucks offstage though lmao.

 

[-LzR-]

If you can force GW to recover low, it's a free aerial most of the time that's true. But it's not like G&W doesn't make even that a bit difficult. Gimping him though is just pure theorycraft bull**** that should only happen in the case of bad DI or him trying to recover way too low.

And I can pretty confidently say Orion is a lot more qualified to say anything about Puff than Grim.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Basis, LzR?

Orion: I'm so ashamed of my walls of stupid... lol

EDIT: inb4 Orion isn't Australian so instant +1 from Shaya (I see ya lurkin' )
EDIT2: He's gone, damn. Poor mind-games on my part.

 

[-LzR-]

Because you are a random noob from Australia. It's like anything I say is wrong because I am a random noob from Finland. We are owned just by our locations alone

 

[Grim Tuesday]

True, true.

Despite Aus being bad though I think just the regularity of my Puff usage gives me some insight that smarter players (like Orion) might not have. Just in terms of controlling the character and understanding her finer workings, how certain situations play out, etc...

 

[-LzR-]

It's just that I heard Orion has a really legit Puff. Though pretty much nobody is toplevel with Puff so it's kinda true any decent player who uses Puff can say legit stuff.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have videos of my really legit Puff aha: www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ZIAZCWU8g
So that might lead some credence to my claims, I dunno, I don't think I've seen Orion's Puff.

I'm improving every time I play, I can see my Puff reaching top-level on the horizon! :D

 

[-LzR-]

I am sure I've seen videos of Orions Puff before. I cannot bother looking them up though.

 

[C.J.]

Search Orion jigglypuff vs Ramin sheik

/too lazy

 

[Laem]

I gotcha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMb0flSiBo

funny stuff huehuehuehuehue

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just looks like a typical "I don't play Puff" video to me, off-set by the fact that Orion is a good player, I suppose...

Approaching deep (whilst facing towards Ramin, no less!), recovering with Rollout, unfamiliarity with her options, predictable pounds and not utilizing one of Puff's key strengths - that she can escape from almost any "pressured" situation if she wants to - at all.

I think every Puff I have ever seen does something like this when they start out... xD

 

[Orion*]

Just looks like a typical "I don't play Puff" video to me, off-set by the fact that Orion is a good player, I suppose...

Approaching deep (whilst facing towards Ramin, no less!), recovering with Rollout, unfamiliarity with her options, predictable pounds and not utilizing one of Puff's key strengths - that she can escape from almost any "pressured" situation if she wants to - at all.

I think every Puff I have ever seen does something like this when they start out... xD

I want to make a note that you are entirely judging me from 1 of 5 million 1$ money matches done at 5am over a year and a half ago.

Regardless of that, you act like your **** is on point, when there is a lot of basic flaws in both the people playing in the video you posted.

I also find the fact that you can get away with spamming short hop airdodge is hilarious. It's not even a mixup it's like your jam. Try doing that **** vs good people you will get wrecked, let alone a character with punishes like DK.

 

[Laem]

shots fired! outrage?

 

[Mr-R]

I have no good sheik vids of me on youtube lmao, ya'll just wait untill apex 2013 !

 

[Shaya]

I thought sheik sucked at killing.

Now I just Up-b air dodge reads and Sheik is IMO top of mid tier.

 

[da K.I.D.]

replace those up bs with dacus's and learn to be a man.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

>"Don't judge me based on one video"
>Judges me based on one video
We have to work with what we have haha

What is DK's punish for SHAD at that range? Allen was jabbing, tilting or grabbing me if I air dodged near him... That's not getting away with it... But most of the time I was doing it out of his tilt range in case he decided to turn around and SH bair approach, that's why it was my "jam" - it's viable jam (mm tasty) in that MU.

I'm certainly not flawless and have improved a ****-ton since that video (playing Puff regularly for 2 months and analyzing all my matches will do that).

Spoiler

Grim (Jigglypuff) vs. Allen (Donkey Kong) Second-by-Second Analysis
0-13 - Try to mostly face away (for bairs) while dancing.
0:15 - Good aggression.
0:17-0:20 - Technical errors in not "pivot" jumping (jump while facing away for bairs)
0:24 - Go for guaranteed punishes instead of hard read ones
0:27 - Pound had no chance of hitting, bair instead
0:28 - Good bair shielding
0:29 - Pounded too close, technical error in not doing a rising pound
0:38 - DK's utilt is too fast for that bait
0:46 - Out-played, be smarter.
0:50 - Pounded too close
0:55 - Pound was too telegraphed, despite good spacing.
0:55 - Never approach after shielded aerial/pound without momentum, lucky it wasn't punished hard
0:59 - Air dodge approach is always bad unless crossed-up while I have momentum

1:02 - Too slow an option, lucky it worked
1:04 - DK falls too fast for that frame trap
1:06 - Good bait
1:07 - Good, safe pressure
1:09 - Technical error (should've been a pivot grab)
1:11 - Bair is too slow out of shield, nair instead, lucky it didn't get punished
1:14-1:18 - Good pressure/reads
1:19 - DK falls too fast for that frame trap
1:20 - Good pressure
1:23 - Nice Rest OoS attempt, unlucky shield poke ruined it
1:33 - Air dodge approach again >_>
1:40 - Pound was obvious, lucky it traded
1:47 - Concentration lapse
1:52 - Dair is not safe for ledge pressure while facing that away
1:54 - Pound is too slow
1:55-1:57 - Good pressure
1:58 - Probably too risky, but good abuse of momentum
1:59-2:00 - Poor option choices/technical errors (don't remember)

2:04 - Good protection to regain momentum
2:05-2:11 - Perfect baiting
2:12 - Bair timing was too obvious, mix-up when dancing for a long time!
2:16 - Concentration lapse
2:17 - Too low percent for a bair combo
2:23 - Unsafe air dodge, too aggressive!
2:24 - Risky tomahawk without momentum, lucky it worked, go for the guaranteed instead
2:28 - Frame trap doesn't work.
2:32 - Too aggressive with dair!
2:34 - Pound is too slow, used it too close
2:36 - Unlucky that it traded
2:39 - Out-played
2:43 - Retreat after hitting in that situation, not enough stun to combo!
2:50 - Technical error.
2:53 - Fair wasn't safe
2:58 - Jab > Grab, yay!
2:59-3:03 - Dancing too far away to cover every ledge option

3:05 - Risky, but worthwhile burst of aggression
3:14 - Should've gone for the platform or back to the ledge to refresh jumps/change direction safely
3:16&3:17 - Outplayed
3:19 - Air dodge approach... STOP IT!!!
3:20 - Too low % to combo
3:23 - Forgot about DK's SH uair option
3:26 - Obvious pound
3:33 - Good choice with pivot grab, unlucky it didn't work
3:34 - Risky Pound, lucky it worked
3:35 - Combo doesn't work on DK
3:43 - Rest wouldn't have KO'd, bad choice
3:47-3:49 - Good pressure
3:50 - Ground Pound is good against people who approach on the ground in that situation, so not DK
3:57 - Notice rest opportunities
3:59 - Bair instead of fair would've led to pressure and possibly a KO

4:02 - Out-played
4:03 - Risky, but good use of momentum
4:07 - Too deep
4:14 - Outplayed, keep in mind the low cooldown on giant punch
4:23 - Even if he rolled, the fsmash wouldn't have hit, do guaranteed punishes instead!
4:25-4:28 - Keep him afraid of dair > rest, good momentum gaining
4:31 - Roll was a technical error
4:34 - Out-played
4:44 - Concentration lapse = No DI

SUMMARY:
-Work on technical ability (don't mess up aerial pivots, etc...)
-Don't overuse Pound, it often gets out-sped or punished on shield
-Learn when baits/strings will work and when they won't
-Air dodge approaching doesn't work without momentum and/or a cross-up
-Always concentrate!

I even mentioned my dumb air dodge habits and have since fixed them. I can make those assessments because I understand my character, and as good as your Puff may be, I don't think you have the general experience - I can point out specific situations that show this, if you'd like, unless you have some better evidence...?

 

[Orion*]

>"Don't judge me based on one video"

not what i said, lmao
please read

>Judges me based on one video

i judged you based on an entire set that you posted in relation to showing your skill with puff

What is DK's punish for SHAD at that range? Allen was jabbing, tilting or grabbing me if I air dodged near him... That's not getting away with it...

It is because allens followups and ability to maintain momentum isnt good. getting grabbed is one thing, getting grabbed and then being in the position to take another 30 damage or lose a stock is not.

But most of the time I was doing it out of his tilt range in case he decided to turn around and SH bair approach, that's why it was my "jam" - it's viable jam (mm tasty) in that MU.

The DK you where playing doesnt anti at all, which is like all he needs to do in response to that. Everytime he gets a hard read he goes for something stupid like fsmash, and he doesnt keep stage control.

He could literally every time he made a read just dash shield forward and have an advantage. Puffs fall speed makes it very hard to get away with **** like that unless you are in precise ranges, and unless you want to just eat a shield grab you're going to back off with an airdodge, or retreating air and give up stage. If you want to start jumping above DK when he has that gdlk uair that's your own buisness. But none of those options really sound stellar.

I even mentioned my dumb air dodge habits and have since fixed them. I can make those assessments because I understand my character, and as good as your Puff may be, I don't think you have the general experience - I can point out specific situations that show this, if you'd like, unless you have some better evidence...?

You can make decent assessments. But i feel like your overall understanding of the ranges that people can punish at higher levels of play is flawed. I'm not saying your horrible, but good people will **** you up for that.

In terms of using a better option in select puff specific gameplay, you probably understand her more in certain areas than I do, to be fair you should if you actually practice her. However, using solid options that she does have, especially from a neutral position and understanding what is safe and what isn't, is completely different, and that's something I feel you don't have as much experience as me in.

It doesn't matter if you get like random situation specific hits in with puff that I wouldn't, if you don't understand the game in the first place. To be fair, you've improved a lot over the course of a few years, and even just talking to you I can tell that. As good as your puff may be, I don't think that you have the general experience to tell where you should be most of the time.

I can minute to minute break down my puff and easily choose 5 million things that I shouldn't have done or should have done in that match. Same thing goes for ramins shiek LMAO. Ramin probably has one of the best sheiks, but I'm not going to sit there and second by second him on options he should have chose. The match is ****ing funny, and has some cool reads which is why I uploaded it in the first place

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Legit response. I would've been bair'ing instead of air dodging if Allen ran in though, but we don't want to delve too far into theory-craft aha

Like I said before though, I feel like Puff is almost immune to momentum-based follow-ups. In recent times, if I'm in a bad position I just back off and wait for a moment to go back in (which always comes eventually). I'd love to play more experience players though and see if that theory holds true at higher levels.

In fact, one of the reason I think MK is +4 against Puff is because she doesn't have that option against him, but I digress.

 

[Orion*]

Legit response. I would've been bair'ing instead of air dodging if Allen ran in though, but we don't want to delve too far into theory-craft aha

you could have adapted if he started that, but from watching, you were airdodging very preemptively.

Like I said before though, I feel like Puff is almost immune to momentum-based follow-ups. In recent times, if I'm in a bad position I just back off and wait for a moment to go back in (which always comes eventually). I'd love to play more experience players though and see if that theory holds true at higher levels.

to a certain extent, especially for characters like jiggs and wario this used to be entirely true.
post 2010 things started to change though.

Puff is still hard to follow up on, but you can still put her in 50/50 situations that are in your favor or keep her in a bad position.

Example.

Puff being on the ledge. The ledge ideally with a LGL is not an optimal position, but puff has solid options coming off so realistically punishing her everytime probably wouldnt happen. However even then you can choose to let her land on stage and just have no more room to retreat backwards to other than the ledge again.

The DK that you played essentially just waited and then went for an incredibly hard read everytime you where at the ledge, and almost all of those times you got back for free and without the loss of stage control.

If he reacts properly with ftilt, dtilt as anti's and shield for airdodges (or bairs/uair if you try to go high but that's not the best idea unless it's like BF or something even then it's a mixup) it's just gonna be harder. Moments sometimes do come in all honesty. But more often than not when you play people like Wills DK you can't just assume he will mess up, you have to make a read or be frame perfect.

You probably wont die unless you get hard read or pick something dumb. But it forces you to go for more mixups or potentially trade damage which is in DKs favor, especially if he reads the mixup and gets a early Dsmash kill (which has gay *** range idk why this guy fsmashes so much). Regardless of how good jiggs is at escaping bad situations, it's still a bad situation where you have less options than you already do at neutral.

In fact, one of the reason I think MK is +4 against Puff is because she doesn't have that option against him, but I digress.

as for mk jiggs, i put it as +3. she has no reasonable mixups to approach him imo, MKs frame data + her range and fall speed just dont work out.

i really only use +4s for things that completely degenerate skill
i.e.
DDD vs mario with the infinite legal.
yoshi vs ganon
ICs vs some garbage character like falcon
ect

+3 is still a hard counter, meaning jiggs should not win vs mk unless the skill gap is ****ing huge. which is what happens when i play mks LMAO.

 

[Judo777]

I thought sheik sucked at killing.

Now I just Up-b air dodge reads and Sheik is IMO top of mid tier.

No Usmash is way better. If your opponent is smart they will DI to where you are going to appear and get caught by the wind. Granted you can make them guess but even still I dont like risking a guess on a something that requires a 1 second in advance read on a move that doesnt kill til 150.

If you can reliably make reads that hard, pick Ike and kill people at 40%.

Sheik is not anywhere near top of Mid. DK and Rob are sooooo much better.

 

[Mr-R]

Sheik is close to high if not high imo, she has alot decent matchups vs high/top tiers

 

[Orion*]

Sheik is close to high if not high imo, she has alot decent matchups vs high/top tiers

She's definitely not high

but high mid is where I put her.

Judo DK is horrrrrrible. Outside of unwinnable MU's he's definitely worse than sheik.

when will people learn to fight him omg, just look at the frame data. I can't deal with it, it's like a fact that this character is bad I feel like I can't even theory craft it anymore at this point.

 

[Doc King]

Don't tournaments ban the D3 dumb throw infinite? Basically making the unwinnable matchup useless.

Doesn't DK have really solid options against characters. I mean he does get chaingrabbed a lot but he has a good air game, edge guard game, and some combos and mixups. He also has very good survivability and good kill moves and options.

I'm just curious as to why you think DK is a low tier.

 

[Shaya]

No Usmash is way better. If your opponent is smart they will DI to where you are going to appear and get caught by the wind. Granted you can make them guess but even still I dont like risking a guess on a something that requires a 1 second in advance read on a move that doesnt kill til 150.

If you can reliably make reads that hard, pick Ike and kill people at 40%.

Sheik is not anywhere near top of Mid. DK and Rob are sooooo much better.

Ike can't jump and throw out extremely fast aerials without much landing lag that are setups for other moves that people vehemently try to avoid.

tl;dr FRAME TRAPS

 

[Judo777]

Sheik is close to high if not high imo, she has alot decent matchups vs high/top tiers

Sheik has decent MU in top tier FOR A MID TIER. Like they are still pretty bad. -2 on MK, -1 on Snake, -1 maybe even -1.5 on Olimar, -3 Pika, Probably actually -1 on Falco, Even Wario, -1.5 diddy, -3.5 IC's, -1 Marth

Its really not that good.

DK has some bad MU's in top but he also has some good ones. And DK has the BEST stage viability bar like MK and Wario. Dk is really good on every stage. Don't get me wrong i dont think DK is good. But I think he might be better than sheik. Frame data isn't the only thing that matters characters with some characters with great frame data are bad (Luigi, Squirtle, Lucas' is pretty good, Mario even has good frame data) btw Dk's isn't bad at all his frame data to range ratio is absurb.

@ Shaya Like Sheik seems really good and she is on paper, but Snake is pretty bad on paper the games not paper. Sheik cant tthrow out fast aerials thats set up into huge punishes either. They set up into like nairs and bairs and DAs. She jumps too high for that threat. And when you play the weakest character in the game people has no reason to fear aerials.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DK has some bad MU's in top but he also has some good ones.

What? DK is like -3 with MK / ICs, -2 vs Olimar and -1 against Snake. Bad match-ups against DDD, spacies and Wario included and DK is quite clearly worse than Sheik who has viable match-ups against Spacies, Diddy, Wario, Oli kinda and Snake kinda. The only character that Sheik does straight-up worse against than DK is Pikachu.

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure Sheik does worse against ICs too. iirc both Vinnie and Will agree that DK loses to ICs -2

But I do think she does better overall against top tiers.

 

[Judo777]

What? DK is like -3 with MK / ICs, -2 vs Olimar and -1 against Snake. Bad match-ups against DDD, spacies and Wario included and DK is quite clearly worse than Sheik who has viable match-ups against Spacies, Diddy, Wario, Oli kinda and Snake kinda. The only character that Sheik does straight-up worse against than DK is Pikachu.

ALOT of people thinks DK beats Snake, also Sheik IC is almost -4. MK is not -3 yea right. Alot of DK's also dont think Falco is that bad. DK would wreck wario if not for the cg some DK'sdont think thats that bad either.

 

[crifer]

Sheik is close to high if not high imo, she has alot decent matchups vs high/top tiers

close to high imo... she is one of these characters with amazing potential.
Also I think she is kind of similiar to fox. She has amazing punish options due to her ground speed and oos aerials, strings combos nicely together and has somehow crappy air movement (though fox has amazing vertical movement while airborn).

Ok, and she lacks of kill moves :D

 

[Orion*]

@ doc king

Don't tournaments ban the D3 dumb throw infinite? Basically making the unwinnable matchup useless.

Doesn't DK have really solid options against characters. I mean he does get chaingrabbed a lot but he has a good air game, edge guard game, and some combos and mixups. He also has very good survivability and good kill moves and options.

I'm just curious as to why you think DK is a low tier.

hes not low tier
more like.... low/mid of mid tier

but he's tremendously overrated mu wise, he has like no solid options from neutral

he's a great punish character, i.e. assuming inperfect play he's amazing.
his air game is only a bit above average. punch gives him solid mixups, but outside of that there are a lot of holes.

not to many scary strings outside of something that shouldnt work with proper di/sdi

his edge gaurd game is solid vs a lot of characters, but he's not doing anything most characters are incapable of

punch and dsmash kill early but aren't very mobile options

If you stay at like tipper ftilt range and poke vs dk with most characters he cant do much. if he ftilts your block you can literally **** on him for it if you buffer a dash out of shield, and it becomes automatic after you start reacting properly.

His dash shield is pretty mediocre at that range because any poke will stuff the dash, and since he has a 8 frame grab you can also just grab him. They do have the option to try dash attack that but lol....
his spot dodge is bad, his shield is bad

his ledge options arent that great. getup attack is good but what's actually scary is mistiming grabbing his airdodge onstage. so if you learn to just stand and that range, and then block to turn around grab if he getup attacks you can cover most of his options pretty solidly.

if he jumps facing you his options are bad. he gets juggled horribly, and only has decent options upon the actual landing if he has punch.

to be honest bair is mad gay, but if you just block and let it reset you're not gonna get wrecked. side b is like 20 frames or something you should be able to react to any dumb mixups he goes for. it's also not a spammable option because most characters wont be hit by it if they stay grounded and shield properly, and DK will give up stage if he wants to do it safely. It's amazing as an anti air if they read your jump though.

his recovery in all honesty is in some ways underrated. its not that easy to gimp him (or should i specifically say will, and even then it's not a surprise when i do get them) despite it being linear. but a lot of characters do have gay options vs it.

Sheik has decent MU in top tier FOR A MID TIER. Like they are still pretty bad. -2 on MK, -1 on Snake, -1 maybe even -1.5 on Olimar, -3 Pika, Probably actually -1 on Falco, Even Wario, -1.5 diddy, -3.5 IC's, -1 Marth

i can't even take these numbers seriously
not even because they are wrong but all the -.5 stuff is ********

And DK has the BEST stage viability bar like MK and Wario.

The fact that the character isn't viable on any of those stages kind of dissuades me from agreeing with you

Frame data isn't the only thing that matters characters with some characters with great frame data are bad (Luigi, Squirtle, Lucas' is pretty good, Mario even has good frame data) btw Dk's isn't bad at all his frame data to range ratio is absurb.

All of the characters you listed have extremely large character design flaws that offset whatever good frame data they have. If I even have to explain what they are then this discussion is going to take forever.

His moves still hit slow, and even from a far range they are all punishable.
it's not like he's poking you from half stage with tilts

@ Shaya Like Sheik seems really good and she is on paper, but Snake is pretty bad on paper the games not paper.

Snakes not bad in comparison to 90% of the cast on paper.
Just relative to the rest of top tier

What? DK is like -3 with MK / ICs, -2 vs Olimar and -1 against Snake. Bad match-ups against DDD, spacies and Wario included and DK is quite clearly worse than Sheik who has viable match-ups against Spacies, Diddy, Wario, Oli kinda and Snake kinda. The only character that Sheik does straight-up worse against than DK is Pikachu.

ghebs with the gdlk post

ALOT of people thinks DK beats Snake

....
why? LOL

 

[Mr-R]

Sheik has decent MU in top tier FOR A MID TIER. Like they are still pretty bad. -2 on MK, -1 on Snake, -1 maybe even -1.5 on Olimar, -3 Pika, Probably actually -1 on Falco, Even Wario, -1.5 diddy, -3.5 IC's, -1 Marth

Its really not that good.

I agree with IC, pika and snake, but other then that, MK is defintely -1, -1 olimar, falco should be even, wario should be + 1 sheik and diddy is only a -1

 

[infiniteV115]

If you stay at like tipper ftilt range and poke vs dk with most characters he cant do much. if he ftilts your block you can literally **** on him for it if you buffer a dash out of shield, and it becomes automatic after you start reacting properly.

You either don't know what 'literally' means or you show some terrible sportsmanship

 

[Ishiey]

hes not low tier
more like.... low/mid of mid tier

but he's tremendously overrated mu wise, he has like no solid options from neutral

he's a great punish character, i.e. assuming inperfect play he's amazing.
his air game is only a bit above average. punch gives him solid mixups, but outside of that there are a lot of holes.

not to many scary strings outside of something that shouldnt work with proper di/sdi

his edge gaurd game is solid vs a lot of characters, but he's not doing anything most characters are incapable of

punch and dsmash kill early but aren't very mobile options

If you stay at like tipper ftilt range and poke vs dk with most characters he cant do much. if he ftilts your block you can literally **** on him for it if you buffer a dash out of shield, and it becomes automatic after you start reacting properly.

His dash shield is pretty mediocre at that range because any poke will stuff the dash, and since he has a 8 frame grab you can also just grab him. They do have the option to try dash attack that but lol....
his spot dodge is bad, his shield is bad

his ledge options arent that great. getup attack is good but what's actually scary is mistiming grabbing his airdodge onstage. so if you learn to just stand and that range, and then block to turn around grab if he getup attacks you can cover most of his options pretty solidly.

if he jumps facing you his options are bad. he gets juggled horribly, and only has decent options upon the actual landing if he has punch.

to be honest bair is mad gay, but if you just block and let it reset you're not gonna get wrecked. side b is like 20 frames or something you should be able to react to any dumb mixups he goes for. it's also not a spammable option because most characters wont be hit by it if they stay grounded and shield properly, and DK will give up stage if he wants to do it safely. It's amazing as an anti air if they read your jump though.

his recovery in all honesty is in some ways underrated. its not that easy to gimp him (or should i specifically say will, and even then it's not a surprise when i do get them) despite it being linear. but a lot of characters do have gay options vs it.

Quoting for emphasis.

DK is bunz, but does decent results-wise because humans have a tendency to mess up. He's kinda like Luigi in that sense.

 

[Luigi player]

Everyone hatin'.

Sheik vs Wario is like even. Not Sheiks favor...

 

[Orion*]

I agree with IC, pika and snake, but other then that, MK is defintely -1, -1 olimar, falco should be even, wario should be + 1 sheik and diddy is only a -1

wario sheik is defo even
id rather have mk sheik as +/-2 rather than 1, but I genuinely feel it's very stage dependent
FD is like even or something ****'s mad silly
Falco is +/-1 falcos advantage

You either don't know what 'literally' means or you show some terrible sportsmanship

American public schools really just didnt put me on the right path to respond to this right now

Quoting for emphasis.

DK is bunz, but does decent results-wise because humans have a tendency to mess up. He's kinda like Luigi in that sense.

This

Everyone hatin'.

Sheik vs Wario is like even. Not Sheiks favor...

you salty