[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ElPanandero]

1. Do you know how many people have legitimate objections? Not very many. Do you know how many actually legitimate objections there are? None.

2. The point of smash is a fanservicing environment, with the balance of the game coming second. Look at Meta Knight.

3. Just so you know, no serious insult was intended, but people use the same argument over and over again no matter how many times it is proven wrong. It's like it's all people have to deny him anymore. Sorry if you took offense to my irritability.

4. I think he was pretty straightforward with what he said. He said he could make Ridley work with time, and he would be slow. Also, Bowser did not just increase in size in each game. He jumps all over when it comes to specifics. Ganondorf's exactness is somewhat... not the best example, I will admit, since he has only three incarnations, two of which do not matter here.

5. In all honesty, I'll get SSB4 anyway. I would just love for my second favorite series to get the representation it deserves. And I feel Ridley is the only REAL applicant for that position. I just get bothered when Metroid, generally speaking, is not aknowledged as much as I feel it should. And it's really weird when it's done by their own company. Bleh...

I'm just going to stray away from the Ridley arguments and go into other stuff. I STILL want a better situation with Fire Emblem, but honestly, how many characters are in Fire Emblem that deserve a spot in a fighting game?

Bleh... Which is why, I know I've said it a few times and it's annoying, but I think they need to just make a SSB spin-off for Fire Emblem characters.

One of my favorite games ever if it's a decent fighter where I can use Nephenee, Camus, Ashn

1. Ridley fans will not recognize a legiyamit point if one has been presented because they argue with the same vehemency as we who disapprove of him.

2. And why would a game catering to fans want to put a character whohas such a anti-following? If its gonna piss someone off, why do it?

3. Ridley fans have proven nothng. They present their arguement, we present ours, no one proves the others wrong, and I don`t find this to be a very fa statement.

4. I`m not following?

5. I understand, and I feel for you, but I personally don`t see it happening...unless that video kuma posted something important. someone mind filling me in?

 

[DekuBoy]

Hot darn, I like the look of playable Ridley. Thanks for the video Kuma.

 

[majora_787]

1. Ridley fans will not recognize a legiyamit point if one has been presented because they argue with the same vehemency as we who disapprove of him.

2. And why would a game catering to fans want to put a character whohas such a anti-following? If its gonna piss someone off, why do it?

3. Ridley fans have proven nothng. They present their arguement, we present ours, no one proves the others wrong, and I don`t find this to be a very fa statement.

4. I`m not following?

5. I understand, and I feel for you, but I personally don`t see it happening...unless that video kuma posted something important. someone mind filling me in?

1. I have heard TWO POINTS that have nothing to do with size. ALL of those that have to do with size automatically are worthless, because as we all should know, size means nothing in smash.

"Ridley would be a bad character." Uhm... Yeah. That depends on so much. I remember hearing, "We can't have ganondorf, he'd 1HKO everything." Look how that turned out.

The other, is this: Ridley, which is true, is not THE MAIN antagonist of the Metroid Series. This IS true, the antagonists are... What...Ridley, Dark Samus, and Mother Brain.

Since I believe Ridley appears the most out of all of them, Mother Brain is....uhh.... incapable of movement, and dark Samus was in three games out of the entire series beginning to end and will never come back like we know Ridley will, I doubt... Key word, DOUBT, it will matter.

2. Anti-following. I seriously doubt anyone is going to look at anti-following. See, I feel, and I could be wrong here, that they pick many characters with large FOLLOWINGS as a way of appealing to the large ANTI-FOLLOWINGS. But I dunno, just a guess. I mean, Sonic is a pretty good example.

3. There's not really anything to prove, considering 90% of the time, the AR argument is that he is too big. There is NO ARGUMENT that needs to take place to disprove that. At least, in a reasonable conversation. The other 10%, the two reasons I gave above.

4. Sakurai's statement on Ridley. I think he was trying NOT to be ambiguous with what he was actually saying. It seemed to me like he was being pretty blunt on the subject.

5. Yeh, if I came off as insulting, my bad, but I do get touchy after listening to extensive discredit to some of my favorite series. >_< I feel like they deserve the credit they deserve, like everyone else.

That Ridley thing made my... Uhh... Early morning. =P



Okay. This post? That's it. No more Ridley talk for me. All it is is running around in circles as it has for the last four years.


Why would Caeda/Shiida (Cannot get used to japanese names. -_-) have a huge chance? I mean, I know in the newest Fire Emblem game, Shadow Dragon... Unless you count the new one that's only out in Japan right now at this time... She is a very important plot character. I know nothing about Fire Emblem 3 or its remake. Sorry~

However, I feel Gharnef could also be made to work. Just saying. Since Medeus would probably have a Giga-Bowser final smash *lol* and.... Well, I dunno if he has a Ganondorf-esque feel to him. I mean, he sort of does, but...

Don't get me wrong though, Caeda would be a good character. =P I would LOVE a lancer in smash. I ALSO think Caeda would have access to her manipulative powers that she has in FE1/FE11.

I'd honestly prefer Nephenee though. Just because. But I know THAT isn't happening.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley has anti-following? News to me. His "anti-following" mostly consists of people who think "he is too big". Most people like him. Heck, he is the most popular Metroid character outside of Samus. I have not seen anyone that actually did not like Ridley himself. It seems most of the skepticism about his worthiness to be in Smash revolve around the size issue.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Ridley has anti-following? News to me. His "anti-following" mostly consists of people who think "he is too big". Most people like him. Heck, he is the most popular Metroid character outside of Samus. I have not seen anyone that actually did not like Ridley himself. It seems most of the skepticism about his worthiness to be in Smash revolve around the size issue.

I like Metroid more than Ridley. :X

 

[majora_787]

I like Metroid more than Ridley. :X

Can we stop? >_<

And how can a Metroid be playable? I mean... unless it's a Hunter Metroid, all it does is latch on and nom you. And a Hunter Metroid just latches on with a TENTACLE and noms you. I'm sure nobody wants a character who fights with tentacles.


.......Right?

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Can we stop? >_<

And how can a Metroid be playable? I mean... unless it's a Hunter Metroid, all it does is latch on and nom you. And a Hunter Metroid just latches on with a TENTACLE and noms you. I'm sure nobody wants a character who fights with tentacles.


.......Right?

Can you stop? >.>

Metorid is possible, the name of the series is METROID. I think that's reason enough. Though he may be less likely than say Ridley or Dark Samus, he has a decent chance. I'll come up with a movest...

 

[majora_787]

Can you stop? >.>

Metorid is possible, the name of the series is METROID. I think that's reason enough. Though he may be less likely than say Ridley or Dark Samus, he has a decent chance. I'll come up with a movest...

>_< Can I stop?? You guys are the ones still going in circles with Ridley!

God... I swear...

>___> The series being called Metroid doesn't really... I mean, by that logic, why aren't we playing as Metal Gear Rex or Ray instead of Snake?

Why wasn't Zelda playable instead of Link in Smash 64?

How would a racing tournament be playable? Do not say you'll find a moveset, that was RHETORICAL.

EDIT: The point of this was, a series name does not necessarily mean an uberimportant primary playable character.

I'm trying to be reasonable here. Look at Metroid. It has no arms and legs. Even if you can let it ram stuff, that doesn't give it a very DIVERSE moveset, if one at all. I mean, it would have two attacks. It's like how three of Sonic's specials are him rolling into a ball and hitting someone. Only, let's apply it to his entire moveset.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ That would depend, which Metroid are we talking about? There are many forms of Metroids if you played Metroid II, Metroid Fusion, and Metroid Prime, (inb4omgzdarksamus), but having a Metroid being playable would be very silly since Metroids are generic enemies, (example, Shy Guys). †

 

[Jaklub]

*delete this useless post please*

 

[majora_787]

♪ That would depend, which Metroid are we talking about? There are many forms of Metroids if you played Metroid II, Metroid Fusion, and Metroid Prime, (inb4omgzdarksamus), but having a Metroid being playable would be very silly since Metroids are generic enemies, (example, Shy Guys). †

Honestly, I think Shy Guys are more....possible..... than Metroids. Different Metroid types are different species of metroid altogether, but different Shy Guy types are all the same enemy with different tools and items.

But I doubt a Shy Guy would happen. I don't even know if I'd like it.

 

[ElPanandero]

@Majora

Alright, didn`t mean to offend you, we`ll just agree to disagree.

Also, you mentioned Gharnef as playable. I actually suggested Nergal (FE7) a while back. Either would be a good addition imo. Or Ashnard, though I like the Black Knight so much more (plus hes way more unique)

 

[majora_787]

@Majora

Alright, didn`t mean to offend you, we`ll just agree to disagree.

Also, you mentioned Gharnef as playable. I actually suggested Nergal (FE7) a while back. Either would be a good addition imo. Or Ashnard, though I like the Black Knight so much more (plus hes way more unique)

I dunno, I think Ashnard would be more... unique... Even though, I think the Black Knight would be the new heaviest character... But him being unique really only applies to if he has... what is his name... Majaion? I think?

I never played FE7. So I don't know much on the subject of Nergal. =P

But I don't think FE7 would necessarily get one, because FE1 (FE11) is the newest game. Well, it'll actually be FE3 and FE12. But still, the point stands. It'd probably be either Medeus or Camus or whatever from FE1, 3, 11, or 12... OR Ashnard, the Black Knight, or Nephenee

Spoiler

joking

from FE9/10.

Bleh, there are a lot of cool characters in Fire Emblem though. It sort of forces only a new lord and a new villain to be playable. Blehh...

 

[ElPanandero]

Well the only reason the Black Knight would be more unique is because of his warp powder, which would add teleportation into his mix of attacks.

And Nergal is basically Gharnef with the added bonus of being a necromancer.

 

[Starphoenix]

Why would Caeda/Shiida (Cannot get used to japanese names. -_-) have a huge chance? I mean, I know in the newest Fire Emblem game, Shadow Dragon... Unless you count the new one that's only out in Japan right now at this time... She is a very important plot character. I know nothing about Fire Emblem 3 or its remake. Sorry~

However, I feel Gharnef could also be made to work. Just saying. Since Medeus would probably have a Giga-Bowser final smash *lol* and.... Well, I dunno if he has a Ganondorf-esque feel to him. I mean, he sort of does, but...

Don't get me wrong though, Caeda would be a good character. =P I would LOVE a lancer in smash. I ALSO think Caeda would have access to her manipulative powers that she has in FE1/FE11.

I'd honestly prefer Nephenee though. Just because. But I know THAT isn't happening.

To my knowledge Caeda/Sheeda has a huge following in Japan and her name did show up in Sakurai's Brawl diary. She is relevant now and plays a significant role in the Marth trilogy. Really it's like why not add her? She's unique, popular enough, relevant, and not a sword user.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well the only reason the Black Knight would be more unique is because of his warp powder, which would add teleportation into his mix of attacks.

And Nergal is basically Gharnef with the added bonus of being a necromancer.

Oh please. The antagonists from FE4 are far better than anyone from any other Fire Emblem. Alvis, Ishtar, Manfloy, Trabant. Practically almost every FE villain trope was started from those characters.

 

[ElPanandero]

My apologies. I have yet to delve into the japanese series. Let me rephrase my statement.

Black Knight is the most uniqueamerican FE character.

 

[ChronoBound]

My apologies. I have yet to delve into the japanese series. Let me rephrase my statement.

Black Knight is the most uniqueamerican FE character.

Probably. However, that is not saying much. Kind of like being the tallest ******.

Alvis from FE4 is probably one of the deepest characters from the entire Fire Emblem series.

He also:

Spoiler

Burninated the main hero and his army.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

♪ That would depend, which Metroid are we talking about? There are many forms of Metroids if you played Metroid II, Metroid Fusion, and Metroid Prime, (inb4omgzdarksamus), but having a Metroid being playable would be very silly since Metroids are generic enemies, (example, Shy Guys). †

Well there is one not so generic Metroid, but On Super Metroid (and on Other M), I believe he dies, but then again, lots of enemies like Kraid, Ridley, etc. die and they still come back, so. =P Anyway, movest.. That's something I'm still working on. Not all his moves need to be ramming and stuff, I just have to look deep into Metroid and see what he does (though not much =P)

 

[majora_787]

Bleh. I think right now, 2 through 6 have never been in the US. Which bothers me.

But 3 will be in the US soon in the form of 12.

That is so confusing. So there's 1. 3 is a remake of 1, and the sequel to 1. Right? So, 11 is a remake of 1. Then 12 is a sequel to 1, 11, and a remake of 1, 11, and 3. Wow... Just wow.

Sorry. My brain broke.

EDIT: So it's a remake of a remake and the sequel of a remake. Now I get it.

ANYWAY. Yeah, being the most unique of the AMERiCAN FE antagonists... says very little. That's the antagonists in five games.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think FE4 was the only FE game to have decent antagonists. Almost all of the other ones in every other Fire Emblem have either been: 1. Evil for the sake of being evil. 2. Possessed by something. 3. Simply a powerhungry tyrant.

Heck, the girl in my signature is of Ishtar from FE4/FE5.

 

[majora_787]

I think FE4 was the only FE game to have decent antagonists. Almost all of the other ones in every other Fire Emblem have either been: 1. Evil for the sake of being evil. 2. Possessed by something. 3. Simply a powerhungry tyrant.

Heck, the girl in my signature is of Ishtar from FE4/FE5.

Well, Medeus was... okay yeah, a tyrant. Ashnard was... Uhh... I guess that would be evil for evil's sake...

....Okay, point taken.

 

[jahkzheng]

Samus has some new moves

Hello readers... xD. (This was originally a thread that I was told to move here. I didn't want to edit it really so that's why its heavy on explanation/introduction and may be out of place relative to previous comments. Also I kept the title so that its origin as a thread might be more apparent. Anyways...)

I'm an avid smash fan - as I'm sure most if not all of you are, lol - have been since the beginning. I'm also a huge Metroid fan and have played and completed every game in the series - (Pinball doesn't count )

If you're like me then you know that Metroid Other M comes out tomorrow... or tonight, if you're lucky... or if you're even luckier, you already have it. Maybe some of you aren't interested at all, but I'm sure those that are will soon have their hands on it.

In any case, this newest installment in the Metroid series has introduced another element to Samus' gameplay - a physical element that has not been seen before. You've seen the videos and some of you will have played by the time this thread is "old". Samus performs actions that she's never done before... melee combat. Note the word "melee".

Since the beginning of Smash Bros., Nintendo characters have come together and interacted in a largely physical way. What I'm mean by that is, although Smash is not your conventional fighter, it certainly isn't a game where the characters run around fighting FPS style or turn based style... they hit each other. Some are entirely physical while others use more indirect attacks. For the most part, these characters moves were derived from their respective games. Some games didn't have a precedent for "physical engagements" so their characters movesets were almost entirely made up just for smash. The characters of StarFox and F-Zero are good examples. However, those characters that did have a precedent for "physical engagements" had their smash versions reflect it.

So what's my point you ask and what does this have to do with Metroid? Well, in short, Samus has some new moves .

Let's compare Smash Samus with Metroid Samus. One of the first questions that pops into my head is, "Where'd she get some of those moves?" Have you ever played Metroid and seen Samus jab, kick, or smash... not to mention nair, fair, bair, uair, dair, or even throw her enemies? I know I haven't. The most physical things I've ever seen Samus do is boost ball and shinespark - ironically neither are in smash.

But who's to say that this discrepancy won't endure in the future? I know it seems like a long way off to the next Smash Bros. game, in fact there's no evidence it will even exist :/.

Regardless, Other M has already presented Samus with some new material - I don't know about you, but I see a lot of potential in the throw department. Just to give an example... Imagine Samus' down throw being a grapple, to head lock, to blow the enemy in the face with a charged shot, lol. It will also be interesting to see if any smash moves make even a small cameo in Other M, but tbh, my interest is more on how this could impact a future smash game. (If at all)

Admittedly, I had ideas before brawl came out just based on what Nintendo had told us about the game and what Samus had already done in Metroid. Maybe the new smash could finally put the grapple on the other hand, freeing up her cannon for throws. Maybe the new smash will let her morphball "crawl" so she can do special moves with it... None of this happened.

Still, I find Other M has provided more material for out beloved bounty hunter xD. And I'm more curious then ever at the potential implications.

Whew. Anyways, sorry about my "long-windedness". Now it's time for you to share you're ideas and thoughts and thanks for patiently reading.

 

[Blissard]

I know Nintendo will probably end up making a SSB4 anyway...but is there any info on it yet? LIke have they started work on it, or told us whether it'll be on the Wii or a future game console?

 

[Rychu]

My Comments

First, the guy 2 posts above me has a point

Second, even though ive never...never PLAYED an FE game (shame on me), I think that Hector(i think thats his name) would be a cool addition. Why? Because he's an Axe-wielder. How many Nintendo axe-wielders do we have that are viable for smash? I cant think of any. I think having a character with a weapon OTHER than guns or a sword would be cool

 

[JOE!]

cool new thoughts about Samus.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9789875&postcount=856

 

[jahkzheng]

Joe... one word... "Awesome"

One of the coolest MYM's I've ever seen. Lol, you've made Samus too good!

The beam swapping is genius. In this respect, she'd be like Olimar but with better control of her tools and no fear of losing them. Plus I can just imagine how cool it would be to see all those beams doing their thing out there. Obviously you chose the Prime beams since they are pretty standard in the series and they really are the most diverse, but I can't help think of the others - you can't reasonably have it all though.

As for the morphball ideas... I knew as soon as I saw them that you were a man after my own heart, lmao. I've had many of the exact same ideas regarding the morphball and it's cool to see those ideas articulated so well in your MYM. In fact here's just a sample of ideas I've had in the past: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7385251&postcount=132
Sound a little familiar? xD.

There were only a couple sticking points for me in that whole MYM. One is that she seems to be really powerful and I imagine to offset that... she'd have to slow down. The other is less critical, but the split screen thing for the FS seems strange... maybe it would be better if she floated offstage in a similar manner to Snake then went into first person where you could aim at your opponents with Hyperweapons. However, that would eliminate hyperball from the picture and that kinda sucks. *shrugs*

One last thing that's just my problem and effectively irrelevant, lol. I don't think I could handle this character. Instead I'd get owned by people who could.. the same kind of people that use PT but perhaps with even more multitasking ability. Disregarding ZSS, this Samus has 4 beams that can change many of Samus' moves and a semi-transformation - it's almost five characters in one!

Anyways, there are way too many great ideas in that MYM to discuss. It's obvious you put a lot of thought into it and I'm glad you shared it with me. Now I know that someone that shares many of my ideas was able to compile them with many others in a manner for all to see and understand. Once again Joe... awesome xD.


Edit: Btw, I've been playing Other M and Power Bombs require a charge. I kinda like this idea since if you implemented it in smash, it would make using powerbombs more time consuming and risky and that way you could make them as powerful as they should be without making Samus too strong. I imagine powerbombs in smash being similar in size and damage to smart bombs but with little KB and they wouldn't damage Samus. There would be plenty more time to get out of the way or attack her out of it, but once it deployed, Samus could pop up just before it ended and get a shot off while the shockwave prevented approach. Pretty cool huh? Wow another long post...

 

[SuperMetroid44]

That movest was really great. The specials were hot and the attacks were awesome. What's also great is that the specials weren't changed much like some other people do. Two thumbs up~

The only thing I didn't like was losing the ability to store in a charge shot. =P

 

[DekuBoy]

What a GREAT moveset. I would love to see you reimagine Link. Only problem is SSB Samus seems to have almost no Metroid Prime elements and Brawl would've been the perfect place to implement them. Also I would miss missiles.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's stuff like Joe's moveset that remind me as to how much potential these characters have. It would definitely allow for more different types of playstyles.

 

[chaosmaster1991]

First, the guy 2 posts above me has a point

Second, even though ive never...never PLAYED an FE game (shame on me), I think that Hector(i think thats his name) would be a cool addition. Why? Because he's an Axe-wielder. How many Nintendo axe-wielders do we have that are viable for smash? I cant think of any. I think having a character with a weapon OTHER than guns or a sword would be cool

Ephraim (FE 8) would also be an option.

Personally, I'd imagine Hector to be somewhat close to Ike, heavy weight with incredible attack. Ike even swings his sword somewhat axe-like in his standard attacks imo (he could use axes in FE 10 btw), on the other hand, Ephraim being a lance wielder, would probably be more of a middle way between Marth and Ike.
Just throwing that out there.

 

[ryuu seika]

Needs Lloyd.

The rest is unimportant.

 

[augustoflores]

that was an epic post JOE! i want that too... i kinda skimmed visually but did you have missiles in the beam swap?

 

[Pieman0920]

...Wait, SuperMetroid44, were you really referring to a random generic Metroid as just Metroid and calling it a he? There's real no specific Metroid in the series besides possibly the baby Metroid from Super that grew into a giant version of itself, but that's still not something you can just call Metroid...heck, even calling it the Metroid seems a bit off. (Also calling it a "he" is dubious as it is, since while I don't quite think there can't be any real gender given to those things, odds are its closer to female than male) In any case, its really not something that can be regarded as suitable for a Smash character.

 

[ElPanandero]

Yea...Pieman`s got a point..

 

[Pieman0920]

Yes..yes I am....also going back through some of the old posts from the last few days, I noticed something else that bugged me...from you EP! You called the Black Knight a good choice compared to other FE villains because he was so unique....Seriously, what exactly were you thinking with that statement? Warp powder isn't used in combat, and the use of it as an explanation for being unique is a moot point, since a lot of characters have been given warping abilities, even if they don't actually use them for direct combat. As it stands, outside of the up special (I guess) he'd be pretty much obligated to be exactly by Ike by the virtue that they were trained by the same man, and have virtually the same weapon. Heck, Ike even uses warp powder in his intro, so why not just say he could have a teleporting moveset? (And exactly how would this really work for a game like Smash?)

 

[majora_787]

Ashnard could pull unique off, but only if he's on Majaion or whatever his name is. >_< And I think that would be REALLY weird, but that's just me.

I think if we have a lance weilder it should be Caeda, for being the primary lancer in the newest games, or Nephenee, for being the primary NOT CAVALRY lancer in the newest non-remake games.

Plus, I just like Nephenee. >_> And Zihark. I think a Myrmidon would be cool for Smash, but I think they'd be sort of like Marth...only lighter, with attacks like Luigi's up+b: Having specific ways to hit to make a "critical hit". No, not like the Final Smash. But with more knockback.

And for that, Mia and Zihark are options... But Navarre is cool too. =P

Yeah, in case you haven't noticed, I've missed out on every game from 2 to 8. And I haven't played 10 yet either. I'll play 10 and 12 when I can get my hands on them, but even then.

 

[Big-Cat]

So many funny names. Definitely an extreme case of Aerith and Bob.

 

[majora_787]

So many funny names. Definitely an extreme case of Aerith and Bob.

Yeeeaaah FE has some weird ones. Nephenee isn't that bad, but there's Cord Bord and Barst from FE1 / 11. There's Brom from FE9 and 10. The bosses are something ELSE though. Havetti? Dactyl? Uhm..... Yeah.

EDIT: Apparently there's a mage named Erk. Deffinately on the weird names side.

 

[DekuBoy]

Oh, FE. Why can't you just have Marth and Roy?