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Yeah, I constantly think about that. I like that the trophies were thrown into the story, but not past first being "activated" and not being used in every cutscene. It just got old fast. Also, I thought about the Master Hand and Crazy hand not belonging to the same person. Like.. Crazy hand is the Master Hand guy's friend. Explaining the completely different personalitis and such.
Personally, I would interpret them as gods of some sort. Master Hand is the god of creation while Crazy Hand is the god of destruction. Both beings are neither benign or malignant. Unfortunately, Master Hand's trophy says this: A being tied to the link between this world, where trophies fight, and the world beyond. The meaning of his existence is unknown, as are his goals, but he seems to have obtained (and kept hidden) a power that borders on absolute. He also seems to feel a certain joy in challenging chosen warriors who've claimed many victories. He waits even now in Final Destination.
Hopefully, if a story mode is worked on again, it will be independent of the Subpar Emissary.
Why cant the storyline be centered around the trophy aspect? Isn't the whole concept supposed to resemble that of some random guy playing with his toys?
It didn't work with the Subpar Emissary, and it just made me feel I was playing knockoffs of the characters, not the characters themselves.
BTW, wouldn't removing the trophy concept mean that the master hand has to go too?
Although you may not like it, Smash was Sakurai's project from the beggining, it should remain something that resembles his ideals (hence don't go to far from the original design of 64) or else we WILL have another Dissidia.
No, the hands can still exist. The roles would have to be changed somewhat. If it were to resemble his ideals, we'd have
THIS GAME'S WINNER IS: EVERYONE!.
Like I've said before, Sakurai's intentions are irrelevant for the most part once the consumers have the game.
I really don't care how the 1 player mode turns out in SSB4. Now that I've gone through Brawl 100% a second time, I can confidently say that the multiplayer will forever overshadow the single player. It was the same with the first two games too. Overall, I think Brawl's has more replay value but, again, it's entirely dwarfed by that of "Brawl" mode. Like I said in another thread, it would probably be made into a better experience as a whole if they put less focus on the single player and more into the multiplayer because, seeing how the SSE took up close to 60-65% of Brawl's development time, would you say that it genuinely reflected that? I like the single player mode but I know that to most people who play the games that they are really just a minor footnote and sometimes avoided altogether except to unlock certain things.
I've said this before I think, but it is the reason people buy Smash. Smash is a multiplayer games and will always be seen as one. it could also be why the SSE was hated.
The best way to make a single player mode would be to infuse the multiplayer aspect. Make the modes have friends jump in to play with you. The Adventure mode can work with co-op play, and maybe online. Make these modes integrate with the multiplayer.
I've said this before I think, but it is the reason people buy Smash. Smash is a multiplayer games and will always be seen as one. it could also be why the SSE was hated.
The best way to make a single player mode would be to infuse the multiplayer aspect. Make the modes have friends jump in to play with you. The Adventure mode can work with co-op play, and maybe online. Make these modes integrate with the multiplayer.
I want to say that just about every single single player mode save for Classic had a co-op mode in Brawl. There isn't much you can do with the single player mode for this kind of game. At most, you could add in survival and time attack mode. Maybe you could make training mode more practical and bring back the old bonus stages and bring back Break the Targets to normal.
As you said, people will always see the games as a multiplayer game which makes sense. What needs to be worked on is the online part where only one player is required, but more can join in. Just adding stuff like lobbies, a live spectator mode, and all the stuff in this SSFIV video (I know you're sick of it, but it's the best example I've got.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIMbpuK_K1w would make the online experience better. Oh, and voice chat. If Fire Emblem is any indication, it seems Nintendo is wising up on this.
Overall, multiplayer needs to be the focus in the next game. Nintendo had this going on last gen, but the lack of online prevented it from it being all that great.
I didn't know a SSB4 was coming out. I want knucles, tails, walugi, toad, and more of a better online gaming. Atleast shpw the player's name while fighting online.
Dude what are you saying? The SSE had almost nothing to do with the way 64's story mode played out (which was what I advocated...check it). How you may feel about the storymode is irrelevant to the issue here. The problem is introducing New features and taking new directions, then simply hoping for the best.
No, the hands can still exist. The roles would have to be changed somewhat.
The hands can still exist because we like to have random Hands floating everywhere... I fail to see how this logic answers my question. Not everyone who picks up a copy would understand the reason for the Hands... think "newer generations", it would be poor on the developers part if the gamer HAD to play all the Smash games to understand the inside story (then again it may be that way now, what rushed titles)
Like I've said before, Sakurai's intentions are irrelevant for the most part once the consumers have the game.
So Sakurai's intentions are irrelevant to Sakurai's game? The man has a mindset for gamers, unlike some designers who make games for themselves. I would think that his intentions are set on introducing a game that doesn't just appeal to some people for the sake of just their needs being met
Sad to say, but like you have demonstrated in the past
.
If it were to resemble his ideals, we'd have
THIS GAME'S WINNER IS: EVERYONE!.
Looks like thats the notion you have your mind set on. If that's what you want to believe, then there's not much I can do for you. Perhaps you are the type that wants games that are fully funded
I like that the trophies were thrown into the story, but not past first being "activated" and not being used in every cutscene. It just got old fast. Also, I thought about the Master Hand and Crazy hand not belonging to the same person. Like.. Crazy hand is the Master Hand guy's friend. Explaining the completely different personalitis and such
I would have enjoyed the storyline better if we could get insight on the mixing of the Nintendo Universe. We start off with Kirby fighting Mario, but there is no premise to this encounter. Aside from smash, the worlds of the two protagonists are nowhere near similiar, nor do they have to be. If the fictional world was centered around two kids and their toys (imaginations can go FAR, I was 5 once) we could get all sorts of complicated scenarios that would actually make sense.
Do you guys think that maybe Tabuu should get resurrected for SSB4?
He was a major antagonist who planned the conflict of destroying the Smash World. It wouldn't hurt a bit to keep him for the next smash game as the main villian again but more vile, powerful, and agressive.
Dude what are you saying? The SSE had almost nothing to do with the way 64's story mode played out (which was what I advocated...check it). How you may feel about the storymode is irrelevant to the issue here. The problem is introducing New features and taking new directions, then simply hoping for the best.
Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said. As for the whole guy playing with his toys thing, it seems to be vaguely abandoned in Brawl. I can't tell anymore exactly what the hands are. They are mostly subject to interpretation based on the limited info we have.
The hands can still exist because we like to have random Hands floating everywhere... I fail to see how this logic answers my question. Not everyone who picks up a copy would understand the reason for the Hands... think "newer generations", it would be poor on the developers part if the gamer HAD to play all the Smash games to understand the inside story (then again it may be that way now, what rushed titles)
What? I was saying that the storyline would be independent to what we have in the last couple of Smash games. You know, like the Final Fantasy series and most of the Tales games.
So Sakurai's intentions are irrelevant to Sakurai's game? The man has a mindset for gamers, unlike some designers who make games for themselves. I would think that his intentions are set on introducing a game that doesn't just appeal to some people for the sake of just their needs being met
Sad to say, but like you have demonstrated in the past
A mindset for gamers? Ha! From what I can tell, he almost talks about making them for beginner gamers, not much for any other gamers. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177424
Then again, this is the same man who thinks it's possible for a two year old to set up a Wii. And besides, there's a problem by making games for others: You become a slave to what the consumers want and that can hinder creativity. That's not to say the opposite doesn't have risks.
Looks like thats the notion you have your mind set on. If that's what you want to believe, then there's not much I can do for you. Perhaps you are the type that wants games that are fully funded
What I want to believe? He's essentially said this in the past. It's a belief that's so contradictory for a fighting game or any multiplayer game for that matter that I can't see how he decided to make Ryu-Oh originally.
What are you getting at there about me wanting games fully funded by Nintendo?
I would have enjoyed the storyline better if we could get insight on the mixing of the Nintendo Universe. We start off with Kirby fighting Mario, but there is no premise to this encounter. Aside from smash, the worlds of the two protagonists are nowhere near similiar, nor do they have to be. If the fictional world was centered around two kids and their toys (imaginations can go FAR, I was 5 once) we could get all sorts of complicated scenarios that would actually make sense.
If we have a plot like that, we might as well just have two kids tossing in toys of the characters in a stage like in the SSB intro. There's not much you can do for a plot there, imo.
As for the whole guy playing with his toys thing, it seems to be vaguely abandoned in Brawl. I can't tell anymore exactly what the hands are. They are mostly subject to interpretation based on the limited info we have.
You should check out "There Will Be Brawl", as I recall, the main protagonist (luigi) referenced the nature of his world as "some unseen arbiter". I agree that Hands are subjective to interpretation, after all they are just Hands. All I'm saying is that it makes sense in the thought that the Master Hand is anyone, just a being that controls the nature of his universe (since there isn't an in depth explaination otherwise). Its the interpretation that I was comfortable with even as a kid.
I was saying that the storyline would be independent to what we have in the last couple of Smash games.
I see, but really we can't have that when Smash actually ran with this whole trophy concept. As a side note, I believe you mentioned something about trophies feeling like Knock offs of the real character. Could you agree that this will never be? Unless this game is officialy Nintendo All Stars, it will be nothing more than a side project that made it big (Read up on the game's History).
Getting back to what was on my mind, I believe that you want Smash to be a world that makes sense within the mash up of worlds, but then there is no major explaination for why these characters are in this new world. Mario has the Mushroom Kingdom, which could be considered a region persay. But Kirby's "Dreamland" is actually a planet. I'm against the idea of these characters present for the sake of the situation, there's no depth and no correlation between the setting and the core elements from each game. I think I said this earlier, I would rather not even have a 'Story Mode' if it makes no sense, just give me Classic Mode.
A mindset for gamers? Ha! From what I can tell, he almost talks about making them for beginner gamers, not much for any other gamers.
Hmm, I wonder why I can sit down to a few matches of Brawl every night and be satisfied with my gaming experience. I'm not going to go through the difference between the difference between Casual and Competative with you (you may already know where I stand), but I do believe that games should be easy to get into, which is harder to say for games like Street Fighter. Take into consideration that there are actually people that actually want to play these fighting games, but are rather intimidated by the types that they encounter when they start out.
Here's what my Friend had to say when I asked him what he thought about the fighting genre:
"Man I hate fighting games. There's always some redneck at the arcade that knows everything about the game and doesn't hesitate to use what he knows to just destroy me"
This is a rather loose example but that as the condition for some random guy's experience says something about Fighting games. Competative players want to play to satisfy their egos. This makes it difficult for most people to want to play with them at all.
And besides, there's a problem by making games for others: You become a slave to what the consumers want and that can hinder creativity. That's not to say the opposite doesn't have risks.
Well welcome to this conversation buddy. I'm not trying to attack or defend Sakurai, the issue with the game is that it was designed for 'most' gamers in mind but the consumer audience is much larger than expected
(IRRELEVANT)actually, I think I convinced some parents to buy this game just through reccomendation; while trolling around Gamecrazy(?IRRELEVANT)
. Remember that both Melee and Brawl were intended to be the cap to the Smash series, so the by product of this mindset is "Cram as much as we can in this so that we can retire". Heck, who would've thought that going all out would make a game so popular.
He's essentially said this in the past. It's a belief that's so contradictory for a fighting game or any multiplayer game for that matter
This game's winner is: People that actually play this game!
Fighting is a genre that we can all agree is in a state of decline and for Smash to be as popular as it is (even with a double minded man heading it) is quite astonishing. Perhaps what you are getting at is that we should have certain modes available for the sake of a certain few wanting it. The company may cash on this ammenity, but people don't play Smash for 1v1. As sad as I am to say this, SmashChu was right when saying that this game was a fighter for four players. THAT is why this game is so different.
If we have a plot like that, we might as well just have two kids tossing in toys of the characters in a stage like in the SSB intro. There's not much you can do for a plot there, imo.
Uh, no that wasn't what I was trying to say. Read RickyPro's Qoute again. From, say, the intro (similar to 64) we have the "Hand's" setting up their terrain for a conflict between their toys. The makebelieve setting takes over and we get into the imaginative states wnere these crazy scenarios can occur.
What smash brothers needs is a secret theatre mode or unlockable char history videos, cuz there's nothing worse than a story mode where the chars are out of character and the actual story is weak.
The reason the Fighting genre is in a state of decline is that it has a fanbase that is extremely resistant to change. Most developers don't really try to mess around with the fomula, and that's why there are hundreds of fighters out there that are virutally the same to the untrained gamer. Smash was one of the few fighters that actually bothered to change things up, and that along with its star power is probably why it became so popular. Of course, if you go by that logic, then there should hopefully be some major change for Smash 4 to push the game forward, though Smash's more die hard fans will be very resistant, just like more traditional fighting game fans are.
You should check out "There Will Be Brawl", as I recall, the main protagonist (luigi) referenced the nature of his world as "some unseen arbiter". I agree that Hands are subjective to interpretation, after all they are just Hands. All I'm saying is that it makes sense in the thought that the Master Hand is anyone, just a being that controls the nature of his universe (since there isn't an in depth explaination otherwise). Its the interpretation that I was comfortable with even as a kid.
"There Will Be Brawl" isn't canon. But anyway, overall, the hands are subject to interpretation. In fact, your interpretation still strikes me as the hands being gods or godlike beings.
I see, but really we can't have that when Smash actually ran with this whole trophy concept. As a side note, I believe you mentioned something about trophies feeling like Knock offs of the real character. Could you agree that this will never be? Unless this game is officialy Nintendo All Stars, it will be nothing more than a side project that made it big (Read up on the game's History).
I really can't agree because I feel it's already happened. The trophy thing was neat at first, but the SSE just killed the concept. When it was revealed on the Dojo that being a trophy was like death, why is it that you can easily be turned back to normal? You aren't dead in that case. It's more like a cryogenic freeze. Heck, the characters in the SSE had similar thoughts about it.
The trophy concept, IMO, could have been better handled. If the whole death thing was kept, it'd be very difficult to handle without people raising a fit. I suppose it would be better off as some sort of curse. You still talk and hear things, but you can't do anything about it. In a sense, it's a fate worse than death.
Getting back to what was on my mind, I believe that you want Smash to be a world that makes sense within the mash up of worlds, but then there is no major explaination for why these characters are in this new world. Mario has the Mushroom Kingdom, which could be considered a region persay. But Kirby's "Dreamland" is actually a planet. I'm against the idea of these characters present for the sake of the situation, there's no depth and no correlation between the setting and the core elements from each game. I think I said this earlier, I would rather not even have a 'Story Mode' if it makes no sense, just give me Classic Mode.
A mindset for gamers? Ha! From what I can tell, he almost talks about making them for beginner gamers, not much for any other gamers.
Hmm, I wonder why I can sit down to a few matches of Brawl every night and be satisfied with my gaming experience. I'm not going to go through the difference between the difference between Casual and Competative with you (you may already know where I stand), but I do believe that games should be easy to get into, which is harder to say for games like Street Fighter. Take into consideration that there are actually people that actually want to play these fighting games, but are rather intimidated by the types that they encounter when they start out.
Personally, I'd say that Tekken is harder to get into. I'd rather just do QCF+P to get some useful move than to remember a string of buttons. This is why I'd prefer to know what I'm doing when fighting than button mash my way through, but button mashing has its advantages at first.
Here's what my Friend had to say when I asked him what he thought about the fighting genre:
"Man I hate fighting games. There's always some redneck at the arcade that knows everything about the game and doesn't hesitate to use what he knows to just destroy me"
This is a rather loose example but that as the condition for some random guy's experience says something about Fighting games. Competative players want to play to satisfy their egos. This makes it difficult for most people to want to play with them at all.
I can't deny that competitive players can be big jerks to first timers. However, in their defense, if you're going to fight a total stranger, be prepared for the worst. The same applies to any other multiplayer game be it FPS, RTS, or whatever.
Well welcome to this conversation buddy. I'm not trying to attack or defend Sakurai, the issue with the game is that it was designed for 'most' gamers in mind but the consumer audience is much larger than expected
(IRRELEVANT)actually, I think I convinced some parents to buy this game just through reccomendation; while trolling around Gamecrazy(?IRRELEVANT)
. Remember that both Melee and Brawl were intended to be the cap to the Smash series, so the by product of this mindset is "Cram as much as we can in this so that we can retire". Heck, who would've thought that going all out would make a game so popular.
Even if they intended for them to be as if they were last in their series, you still see it didn't happen. Both games are known for having time constraints on them. Also, cramming in stuff won't always work. Should I focus on the meat, which is the gameplay and multiplayer, or should I add in fluff like a weak built in Achievements system?
As for the most gamers thing, going through with this with Sakurai logic, the game would have to have been explicitly for beginners. We wouldn't have perfect shields, techs, etc. However, he, for the most part, designed the series as an alternative to the 2D fighting games out there which makes sense.
This game's winner is: People that actually play this game!
Fighting is a genre that we can all agree is in a state of decline and for Smash to be as popular as it is (even with a double minded man heading it) is quite astonishing. Perhaps what you are getting at is that we should have certain modes available for the sake of a certain few wanting it. The company may cash on this ammenity, but people don't play Smash for 1v1. As sad as I am to say this, SmashChu was right when saying that this game was a fighter for four players. THAT is why this game is so different.
As I mentioned with SmashChu a while back, there a number factors as to why the fighting genre is in the state it is in now. First, 3D fighting took over in the mid 90's so 2D fighting was over shadowed. Second, when you have a genre becoming incredibly popular, it's going to hit its peak in popularity at ssome point. I wouldn't be surprised if the FPS genre will go through the same thing with Music replacing it. In other words, it's all just a trend from what I can tell. Third, there's what you mentioned earlier about your friend: These games are found to be intimidating which I think is based partially on the perceived controls.
Fourth, there's just a lack of interest.
Anyway, Smash was designed for UP TO four players. I don't recall saying it had to be. After all, even Sakurai himself says that there's no right or wrong way to go about playing it.
]Uh, no that wasn't what I was trying to say. Read RickyPro's Qoute again. From, say, the intro (similar to 64) we have the "Hand's" setting up their terrain for a conflict between their toys. The makebelieve setting takes over and we get into the imaginative states wnere these crazy scenarios can occur.
Sorry for not putting in quotes, I wrote this in a bit of a hurry.
The reason the Fighting genre is in a state of decline is that it has a fanbase that is extremely resistant to change. Most developers don't really try to mess around with the fomula, and that's why there are hundreds of fighters out there that are virutally the same to the untrained gamer. Smash was one of the few fighters that actually bothered to change things up, and that along with its star power is probably why it became so popular. Of course, if you go by that logic, then there should hopefully be some major change for Smash 4 to push the game forward, though Smash's more die hard fans will be very resistant, just like more traditional fighting game fans are.
Well you can, but that doesn't change the fact that most other genres still have more variety despite that. In addition, there's the whole thing about how they are really meant to be competative and that makes it difficult for new people to join in, which I guess is the point Sakurai was trying to tackle.
What did you think I meant by "Imaginations go far"? I apologize for using myself as an example here, but I have a younger brother and we liked to mess around with the Lego toys called 'Bionicles'. We quickly learned that we could never have the core essence of the commercial created worlds (Esp the first few, awesome) so we had to create our own. With our random ways, we actually enjoyed our own crazy adventures better. Now I being the older brother, have more say on how the scenarios play out. The experience tended to go in the direction I wanted to because I had seen enough cartoons of the sort that I should know how this make believe world should go. My younger brother on the other Hand (get it?) has less direction, and a short attention span, but is fascinated by the design and colors of these toys (he won't hesitate to throw these things everywhere). Call him Crazy and Call me the Master.
Btw, why is it important that TWBB was a cannon or not?
I really can't agree because I feel it's already happened. The trophy thing was neat at first, but the SSE just killed the concept.
My apologies I just reread and I realized how unclear that question was. What I'm saying is that having characters that aren't the true characters comes with the territory of having a mashup spinoff of sorts. It would (and it should) take much more of the development time JUST to grasp the true essence of these characters (Goodness, Mario's constant frowning). Being that Brawl was a product created by a crack team of programmers that know nothing more about the likeness of each individual character besides just playing a few of their games (and loving Melee), there has to be some lack of authenticty.
Even if they intended for them to be as if they were last in their series, you still see it didn't happen. Both games are known for having time constraints on them. Also, cramming in stuff won't always work. Should I focus on the meat, which is the gameplay and multiplayer, or should I add in fluff like a weak built in Achievements system?
But of course, this guy Sakurai was just freelancing around and he was given a huge responsibility to finish what HE thought would be the end to his involvement. I think we can both agree that this man "Aims to Please" but falls short because the flow of the game is affected by him alone. If he can just throw a few memorative items and acheivements to satisfy the masses, he will. Is this a dissapointment? Yes, but if you see this as a side project that became popular, you can forgive this flaw. I mean, this dude hardly even works for Nintendo anymore. This occurance may even be enlightening for those of you that don't want Sakurai to lead the next Smash, GOOD NEWS right?
As for the most gamers thing, going through with this with Sakurai logic, the game would have to have been explicitly for beginners. We wouldn't have perfect shields, techs, etc.
Lol, you don't need these things when you have a half baked online mode. I can just see this guy waving his finger at the competative player " I told you not to wavedash but you didn't listen, now you got smashed off the screen for tripping, how does it feel? Losing the Finals and all that money?"
It might make sense the other way around, I think that many of these features are just what these games allow, they are techniques that players discover to be possible (its uses are subject to who's interpreting).I forgot the name of this technique, but in street fighter you can advance towards your opponent by using some sort of energy. This technique could have been designed on purpose, but the odds are, some guy figured it out and now it can be used for his advantage. The designers may buff or nerf these techniques and reap the consequences thereby.
Anyway, Smash was designed for UP TO four players. I don't recall saying it had to be. After all, even Sakurai himself says that there's no right or wrong way to go about playing it.
I didn't make myself clear, the majority of people that play smash are those that mess around in the four player mode. I agree that there is no wrong way of playing it, but whats the use of catering to one mode of play over another? Most fighting games are two player, its a no brainer according to the context of its uses. I play you, you beat me, I play him and I beat her, and it all results to someone thinking they're the best. So Smash being a "Contradict(ion) to Fighting games" isn't an apt way of describing it. I mean you said it (sort of a contradiction to yourself IMO) there's no wrong way about playing smash, but then again there's no definite correct way either. That my friend, is the reason why I believe most competative players are sour about their Brawl experience, their modes of play weren't ideal for them in particular.
Miyamoto would definetly help with a number of things I would think. For one trophy desriptions and stuff of the sort that working on a bunch of games would help with.
Also something I was thinking about was how Animal Crossing got a stage but no characters. I was think what series this could happen to and work for. And also unthought of characters that might get in that aren't 3rd party or retro (like R.O.B.)
i think they should add even more a variety of characters
add some KH ppl
add some star wars even
add 1 or 2 more from sonic
add others
this would attract more ppl
Here are some of my ideas, first, characters.
*NOTE* I'm not saying all of these should be in SSB4 or anything, just putting random concepts out there.
Firstly, axe Toon Link. One of the most important Nintendo franchises deserves proper representation.
Also axe Snake and Pokemon Trainer, I'll explain later.
Newcomers from existing series:
Kamek - Yoshi
The Yoshi series has only had 1 rep for all 3 games, Kamek the spot of a Yoshi series villain and is probably the second most important Yoshi series character. (Not putting Baby Mario/Luigi as I'd prefer something more original).
King K. Rool - DK
The DK Series needed a third rep considering it's importance to Nintendo, K. Rool fits the spot of a DK Series villain and is more original than adding another monkey (Funky Kong, Dixie Kong, etc...).
Vaati - Zelda
Replaces Toon Link as he is much more original, has a large fanbase, probably the most important Zelda character who isn't already in Smash.
Ridley - Metroid
HE ISN'T TOO BIG! LOOK AT MELEE'S OPENING AND BOWSER'S SIZE COMPARED TO SUPER MARIO 64!!!
Okay I got that off my chest, the Metroid series has only had 1 rep for all 3 games, Ridley fits the spot of a Metroid series villain, and is one of the most important Metroid series characters.
*Name of a Pokemon Trainer* - Pokemon
I just find the name "Pokemon Trainer" too be stupidly ambiguous, Pokemon Trainer wasn't the main character of Pokemon Red/Blue, Red was. So I think he should
a) Be given new Pokemon, just for a change.
b) Be given a name from one of the Pokemon games, i.e. Red.
*Popular 5th Gen Pokemon* - Pokemon
Follows the Mewtwo > Lucario thing. Probably humanoid with similar styled attacks to Mewtwo/Lucario.
Samurai Goroh - F-Zero
The F-Zero series has only had 1 rep for all 3 games, Goroh fits the spot of a F-Zero series villain, and is one of the most important F-Zero characters.
Black Knight - Fire Emblem
The Fire Emblem Series needed a third rep considering it's popularity, Black Knight fits the spot of a Fire Emblem villain, and is more original than another Lord (Hector, Lyn, etc...).
Newcomers from new series:
Tom Nook - Animal Crossing
Animal Crossing needed a rep, especially after Smashville in Brawl. One of the most important characters in Animal Crossing. Represents series better than "Animal Crosser" IMO.
Isaac - Golden Sun
Could spark popularity in series (Marth/Roy in Melee), one of Nintendo's few RPG franchises. AT in Brawl (an unlockable one to boot). Quite popular games.
Andy - Advance Wars
Represents all of the Nintendo Wars games, not just Advance Wars. One of Nintendo's only Turn-based strategy franchises. AT in Brawl (sort of).
Little Mac - Punch Out!!
Represents one of the best NES games and the recent revival of the series. AT in Brawl.
Ryuata Kawashima - Brain Training
Represents a Nintendo franchise signifying their more casual games. May cause non-Smash fans to try the game.
Ray Mk-II - Custom Robo
Could spark popularity in series (Marth/Roy in Melee). AT in Brawl.
Starfy - Legend of Starfy
Could spark popularity in series (Marth/Roy in Melee). AT in Brawl.
Mii - Nintendo Wii
Continues with the trend of playing as Miis in Nintendo games. They have been in many games and are a good way to represent the Wii.
Sandbag/Polygons/Wire Frames/Tabuu/Primids/Alloys - Super Smash Brothers
Represents one of Nintendo's biggest franchises (Super Smash Brothers). They have all appeared in the Smash series before.
Bill Rizer - Contra
Replaces Snake, repesents Konami's partnership with Nintendo MUCH better than Snake. Represents one of the most popular games on NES.
Megaman - Megaman
Very popular choice for a 3rd party representitive. Fits easily into the Smash world.
Changes to existing characters:
Luigi - Slight moveset change, with more moves taken from his games (Vacuum for one).
Wario - Moveset change, with more moves taken from his games. The lack of any Wario Land moves in Brawl was pretty bad IMO.
Ganondorf - Moveset overhaul, completely changed to better represent his appearance in the Zelda series (He does have quite a lot of attacks in the Zelda games, and I've already created a moveset for him).
Captain Falcon - Slight moveset change, with more moves taken from his games (Obviously changes to his Falcon Ounch/Kick/Knee/etc... would piss people off, but surely he could have just a few moves based on the games he came from).
Falco - Slight moveset change, to make him less of a clone.
Wolf - Slight moveset change, to make him less of a clone.
Lucas - Slight moveset change, to make him less of a clone (PK Thunder, PSI Magnet, PK Fire).
Pit - New appearance and voice: The adult form as seen in the new Kid Icarus game for Wii.
R.O.B. - More moves based to represent Nintendo products (Nintendo Scope, Power Glove, etc...)
Sonic - Voice actor changed to Ryan Drummond.
Some of my choices may seem strange, but the more you look at them, the more they seem to make sense IMO.
Misc. Changes:
Melee gameplay, with a few of the good things in Brawl added (Grabbing a ledge when facing opposite direction, sliding Up Smash, etc...)
Stages: Every character gets their own home stage, which actually fits their playstyle (sort of like in 64).
Also returning stages should be:
Past Stages (N64): Hyrule Castle
Past Stages (N64): Saffron City
Past Stages (Melee): Fountain of Dreams
Past Stages (Melee): Hyrule Temple
Past Stages (Melee): Jungle Japes
Past Stages (Melee): Corneria
Past Stages (Brawl): Smashville
Past Stages (Brawl): Battleship Halberd
Past Stages (Brawl): Delfino Plaza
Past Stages (Brawl): Yoshi's Island
I also think there should be more neutral stages like Battlefield and Final Destination. Maybe 5 in total?
More balanced stages as well, the less we have to ban the better.
Balance characters more, obviously.
Balance Final Smashes, because they are a pretty cool concept IMO.
Make the Custom Stage Builder MUCH more expansive, they put pointless limits on what we could do with the Brawl one.
Adventure Mode: Sort of a blend of Melee and Brawl's adventure modes. Have stages taken or inspired from the character's games (like in Melee, Mushroom Kingdom, Underground Maze, etc...) And then more like Subspace except with less repetitive gameplay, a story which doesn't use every cliche in the book and has much more depth.
Better AI - Also, more human. I don't want to fight an opponent who perfect shields all of my attacks and meteor cancels all of my spikes.
Better online - Speaks for itself.
More balanced items and fair spawn points with no or little randomness envolved.
Actually tested for glitches maybe? Brawl's amount of glitches were just embarassing.
More freedom with Replays, longer time-limit, ability to rewind, take pictures during replay, etc...
*Sorry for the double post, but this isn't related even slightly to my previous post*
@★Chaos★
KH - No, just no.
Star Wars - NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
More Sonic - Sonic shouldn't have been in Brawl, why should they get more characters?
Next you'll be saying OMG! ADD CL0UD FROM FF AND MASTAH CH!EF!!!!!!!!
i think they should add even more a variety of characters
add some KH ppl
add some star wars even
add 1 or 2 more from sonic
add others
this would attract more ppl
I thought as much, but didn't want to look through 2000 pages to check XD
I can post movesets here right? Has anyone done a Ganondorf moveset than you can remember?
No third party series should get 2 characters is my opinion. Thus the Sonic series should only have Sonic, and the MGS series should only have Snake. If for some dumb reason one series got 1 or 2 additional characters, I think it would only be right to give the other third party series the equivalent 1 or 2 characters.
Anyways, as to that one character list posted, Kamek should not get in just because the Yoshi series doesn't have many characters, Vaati by no means should actually replace Toon Link, and the Pokemon Trainer is just fine as it is. (And there is no Mewtwo>Lucario tradition. Even if you believe that there is some type of thing where the newest Pokemon gets shown and then thrown out, then it would be Pichu>Lucario. Mewtwo's cut had nothing to do with Lucario, and everything to do with Pokemon Trainer and Jigglypuff) Lastly the Black Knight would simply be a clone in 95% of cases, and isn't nearly as important as several other Fire Emblem characters.
What did you think I meant by "Imaginations go far"? I apologize for using myself as an example here, but I have a younger brother and we liked to mess around with the Lego toys called 'Bionicles'. We quickly learned that we could never have the core essence of the commercial created worlds (Esp the first few, awesome) so we had to create our own. With our random ways, we actually enjoyed our own crazy adventures better. Now I being the older brother, have more say on how the scenarios play out. The experience tended to go in the direction I wanted to because I had seen enough cartoons of the sort that I should know how this make believe world should go. My younger brother on the other Hand (get it?) has less direction, and a short attention span, but is fascinated by the design and colors of these toys (he won't hesitate to throw these things everywhere). Call him Crazy and Call me the Master.
Btw, why is it important that TWBB was a cannon or not?
I'm aware of the power of imagination, but to try creating a coherent storyline isn't always the easiest when it involves characters from different universes. The Bionicles, correct me if I'm wrong, are all from within the same universe so it's easier to create a plot that makes sense. Anyway, I'd call you Crazy. /jk
In a sense, it is important since you referred to it regarding the storyline. It's like using a fanfiction to supplement the main canon. Heck, it's the same thing.
My apologies I just reread and I realized how unclear that question was. What I'm saying is that having characters that aren't the true characters comes with the territory of having a mashup spinoff of sorts. It would (and it should) take much more of the development time JUST to grasp the true essence of these characters (Goodness, Mario's constant frowning). Being that Brawl was a product created by a crack team of programmers that know nothing more about the likeness of each individual character besides just playing a few of their games (and loving Melee), there has to be some lack of authenticty.
To me, that's a poor excuse. This is a Nintendo game. If this was some MUGEN game, I'd be more lenient, but I'd expect the true essence of the characters, trophies, etc. since it comes essentially from the horse's mouth.
But of course, this guy Sakurai was just freelancing around and he was given a huge responsibility to finish what HE thought would be the end to his involvement. I think we can both agree that this man "Aims to Please" but falls short because the flow of the game is affected by him alone. If he can just throw a few memorative items and acheivements to satisfy the masses, he will. Is this a dissapointment? Yes, but if you see this as a side project that became popular, you can forgive this flaw. I mean, this dude hardly even works for Nintendo anymore. This occurance may even be enlightening for those of you that don't want Sakurai to lead the next Smash, GOOD NEWS right?
Actually, the guy works for Nintendo now, but he runs his own studio that's owned by Nintendo. Smash started out as a side project, but I'm sure most would consider it to be a main series in its own right considering how popular it is. I would say that Melee was the one that cemented its status as one to put next to other series like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Starfox, etc.
Lol, you don't need these things when you have a half baked online mode. I can just see this guy waving his finger at the competative player " I told you not to wavedash but you didn't listen, now you got smashed off the screen for tripping, how does it feel? Losing the Finals and all that money?"
It might make sense the other way around, I think that many of these features are just what these games allow, they are techniques that players discover to be possible (its uses are subject to who's interpreting).I forgot the name of this technique, but in street fighter you can advance towards your opponent by using some sort of energy. This technique could have been designed on purpose, but the odds are, some guy figured it out and now it can be used for his advantage. The designers may buff or nerf these techniques and reap the consequences thereby.
I can't really tell what's going on in Sakurai's mind regarding the competitive environment. The balances to the veteran cast made some sense, but he shot himself in the foot by changing the physics and not changing them based on that.
Anyway, I've never heard of this technique in Street Fighter. The only thing I can think of is FADC or the teleport moves some characters like Dhalsim have.
I didn't make myself clear, the majority of people that play smash are those that mess around in the four player mode. I agree that there is no wrong way of playing it, but whats the use of catering to one mode of play over another? Most fighting games are two player, its a no brainer according to the context of its uses. I play you, you beat me, I play him and I beat her, and it all results to someone thinking they're the best. So Smash being a "Contradict(ion) to Fighting games" isn't an apt way of describing it. I mean you said it (sort of a contradiction to yourself IMO) there's no wrong way about playing smash, but then again there's no definite correct way either. That my friend, is the reason why I believe most competative players are sour about their Brawl experience, their modes of play weren't ideal for them in particular.
Here's what I think of all this. I think the one on one style of fighting in Smash was ignored for the most part in favor of the four player modes. As such, I'd like to see more attention being given to one on one and doubles matches. You've heard me say this before, but I'll say it anyway.
I believe that the characters should be balanced for one on one play with not items primarily considering that the competitive and semi-serious gamers are mostly concerned about this. The casuals who play with items on crazy stages with four players aren't going to care all that much. The competitive community is a minority, but it doesn't mean that it should get the shaft just because it's a minority.
in ssb4 i want cooler stages a final smash depending on which direction of b u push like up b or side b. and i want the melee people to come back and item option to very high.
I used to love those things too (Bionicle). Mario's personality is a little funky, but it's not as bad as Peach's. Peach comes accross as a total ditz in Brawl, when she's got a much more serious, intelligent personality in the RPGs.
You and me both. I just wish we had our own board for this, but it's too much for the time being. If we had SSB4 announced, it would happen, but not now.
Maybe where you live, but it's not for another six hours for me. I guess I'll play NSMB Wii for the time being. I'm not doing anything special and haven't since Katrina happened.
I think the look suits Mario very well. If anything, I think it's a look of determination which I think perfectly reflects his character. To me, he doesn't look angry but ready to take on any challenge head-on, unflinching. Besides, there are plenty of other happy-go-lucky characters in Smash Bros anyways. If anything, I think Peach's over-the-top airhead personality in Smash Bros and Yoshi's congeniality more than fill up the quota for happiness in the Mario franchise reps.
