[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[drag0nscythe]

My story ideas are in here.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/147/d/d/Super_Smash_Bros_Fisticuffs_by_drag0nscythe.swf

All the badguys ban together under the rule of Taboo to take down all the heros. It is alittle more complicated than that, but that is the basic idea.

I also want to see characters die (permanently in the story).

Lets see, the jest is that Tabuu, using Master hand, gets all the bad guys to band together. They go looking for others to join their cause as well as dig up Tabuu's minions. Mewtwo betrays the villains, gets killed in a large explosion and tells the heros war is coming. They have a large war, with the heros losing the battle. Now, small pockets of resistance fight against the villains army, eventually leading to the final battle with tabuu.

 

[★Chaos★]

He was saying Bowser and Ganondorf have the war though, and them being the protagonists and recruiting Mario or Link just seems too odd.

ah now i get it
i thought of it meaning the fact of a war means are they enemies or partners

 

[n88]

@Pieman

I was hoping for the Bowser v Ganondorf thing to be part of the story, not necessarily something the character would take part in directly. I don't want Bowser recruiting Mario and Link. Imagine something more along the lines of Bowser's forces clashing with Ganondorf's, and the player has to fight through a few levels infested with LoZ and Mario enemies. Cutscenes could depict most of the conflict between the two enemy factions.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

He was saying Bowser and Ganondorf have the war though, and them being the protagonists and recruiting Mario or Link just seems too odd.

That I agree with. It could be something more like the Mario RPG's, where Mario and Bowser have to work together and recruit people from Starfox, Fire Emblem, F-Zero, etc while LoZ Does to Mother, Pokemon, Yoshi, etc. Or just the characters rather than the series, like Ganon/Link get Falco while Mario/Bowser get Fox.

Dunno; Work on that idea. I'm actually starting to think it sounds good If the next game has an adventure mode with a story.

Taboo

That's when you know you need to edit your plot.

I also want to see characters die (permanently in the story).

...

You know what happened when SSE Tried to have that "Epic" Feel every five seconds when not playing it, right?

 

[drag0nscythe]

That's when you know you need to edit your plot.

I liked the concept of Tabuu but though the execution in Brawl was terrible. I just took what had already been made and conceived my own plot from the scraps.

You know what happened when SSE Tried to have that "Epic" Feel every five seconds when not playing it, right?

Brawl never tried to be "epic" (atleat no in my mind.) It tried to be campy and appeal to the die hard fans only. SSE also had trouble with pacing and real impact. Nintendo needs to make things epic by doing things that will shock (Nameless Robs going boom is not epic.)

Have Peach's castle get destroyed.
Have Samus get wounded to the point of death.
Have Mewtwo die.
Have Luigi stand up and take charge into battle.

Just something other than the nameless Robs dieing and the Nintendo Rangers.

 

[Pieman0920]

You know Koopa, there's nothing really that wrong about using Tabuu again at least if you're willing to use the Master and Crazy Hand again. They are just Smash original villains, and while they have generally few positive traits to go with them, they also have few negative traits. Their stories have not been fleshed out, and quite frankly there has to be a final boss that does not belong to any of the series proper.

In any case, I really don't think anyone's quite got the correct formula for what would make a good story for Smash, which leads me to agree with Toise somewhat in that maybe less story is best since there is almost no way in pleasing everyone, and the mashing together of so many series and so many protagonists and antagonists is just going to cause problems. That's why Bowser was almost a flunky in SSE, because there happened to be about three tiers of villains over his head despite the fact that in his own game he's either on the top or helping Mario in order to get himself back on the top again. In reality, I think SSE actually did handle it a lot better than what most people are suggesting, since it made the story optional, didn't get bogged down in trying to represent too many series, and didn't try to tell all that complex of a story given that a good chunk of Nintendo characters are mute or semi-mute. In addition, trying to add in things like character deaths won't work either since this is just a crossover game and the characters have stories elsewhere.

 

[Big-Cat]

What would have made Tabuu work, IMO, was if he was the whole body Master and Crazy Hand came from. This would have made him more interesting, but the guy doesn't have a hint of personality.

I think it's just best to have the "central" characters be the hands. There could be some clash between the two since they are supposedly opposites.

This might work as a base.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissidia#Plot

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I liked the concept of Tabuu but though the execution in Brawl was terrible. I just took what had already been made and conceived my own plot from the scraps.

I honestly don't see how you could like the concept of Tabuu but whatever; He was just shoved into the plot. Sure, there was villains of games that I'm a fan of, but at least those villains said some text or had some backstory. At least those were plot twists.

Tabuu was just overall an unentertaining villain in...Every aspect. The only way I would even care Is If he was changed in...Every aspect.

Brawl never tried to be "epic" (atleat no in my mind.) It tried to be campy and appeal to the die hard fans only. SSE also had trouble with pacing and real impact. Nintendo needs to make things epic by doing things that will shock (Nameless Robs going boom is not epic.)

Tried to be =/= Is. Your idea is the definition of attempting to do that (The death one)
Brawl tried to be epic and have that FF Type appeal almost EVERY moment. Did it work? Uh, no.

Having characters die just...Doesn't work in an environment like Smash. Some plot twists? Yeah, I'm fine with that. Death? Uh no; Especially If It's overused. One? Possibly. More than that? Only If It ties in extremely well to the plot.

You know Koopa, there's nothing really that wrong about using Tabuu again

Only If he's an actually good villain. Then again, plot first.

In any case, I really don't think anyone's quite got the correct formula for what would make a good story for Smash

I actually think Toise's idea is the best in this thread so far, but knowing that unless a lot of people complain...

Or screw it and not have an adventure more like in 64.

 

[Big-Cat]

Considering that gameplay is far from perfect in Smash, scrapping the Adventure Mode or making a Melee esque one would not be a bad idea. I'd rather have a fun, balanced, and captivating game then one where an intricate plot unnecessarily exists and the three qualities are sacrificed for it.

 

[DekuBoy]

Instead of having a huge story with everyone, just have a small story for each character, ending with a unique boss. Maybe some characters stories can intertwine.

 

[Pieman0920]

Given that we will have about 50 or so characters, I think the idea of 50 unique bosses is pushing it, even if there was only one story mode.

Anyways, Melee's Adventure Mode had basically the same gameplay, so if you want gameplay to improve, that's not the way to go. Really, most people don't realize that SSE really was a large step up over Melee's Adventure mode, mostly because of how dissapointed they got.

Actually in regards to gameplay though, the major problem is that Smash isn't based around being a platform. Its based around being a fighter. There really won't be any perfect form of gameplay unless the characters play completely different in the two modes.

 

[Big-Cat]

This is one of the reasons why I'd like to see a Smash RPG inspired by the Tales series. A number of characters in Smash have already had some form of RPG elements at one point in one of their games, so it's possible.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well that's sort of a issue for another thing, now isn't it. It also seems like it may be a logical step for Mario Kart to branch off to other series, given that its had to dig in pretty deep as of late. (Dry Bower, Baby Peach/Daisy)

Anyways, since I have a nice chunk of time right now between X-mas and New Years, I've been able to get back to work on my stage list, and have come to a bit of a stump at the Pokemon series, so I'll ask this here (since the Stage Group is pretty dead right now). I want to have two new stages for Pokemon, and already have one in the form of the Lake of Rage. Outside of that though, I can't think of a real good thing to work with for a second stage, and since I want to put the music in for it, I'm not about to say that it should be a Gen 5 location. Thus I wonder if I should use the last stage for another Pokemon Stadium stage, or move it on to something else.

 

[SmashChu]

My story ideas are in here.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/147/d/d/Super_Smash_Bros_Fisticuffs_by_drag0nscythe.swf

All the badguys ban together under the rule of Taboo to take down all the heros. It is alittle more complicated than that, but that is the basic idea.

I also want to see characters die (permanently in the story).

Lets see, the jest is that Tabuu, using Master hand, gets all the bad guys to band together. They go looking for others to join their cause as well as dig up Tabuu's minions. Mewtwo betrays the villains, gets killed in a large explosion and tells the heros war is coming. They have a large war, with the heros losing the battle. Now, small pockets of resistance fight against the villains army, eventually leading to the final battle with tabuu.

I liked the concept of Tabuu but though the execution in Brawl was terrible. I just took what had already been made and conceived my own plot from the scraps.




Brawl never tried to be "epic" (atleat no in my mind.) It tried to be campy and appeal to the die hard fans only. SSE also had trouble with pacing and real impact. Nintendo needs to make things epic by doing things that will shock (Nameless Robs going boom is not epic.)

Have Peach's castle get destroyed.
Have Samus get wounded to the point of death.
Have Mewtwo die.
Have Luigi stand up and take charge into battle.

Just something other than the nameless Robs dieing and the Nintendo Rangers.

Ok, you do not need to be witting the story. All of those idea just come off as bad. Why do we need to kill of characters. is there a need to destroy landmarks. Heck, that doesn't sound very epic anyway. Just boring and predictable.

 

[Mowrt620]

@Dekuboy
I think 50 or so characters with a "story" is too much, but maybe each series (like mario series, LoZ seres, ect.) could have a story. Just a thought (KH Sora versus Ansem and guardian sounds awesome to me...)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I really don't care how the 1 player mode turns out in SSB4. Now that I've gone through Brawl 100% a second time, I can confidently say that the multiplayer will forever overshadow the single player. It was the same with the first two games too. Overall, I think Brawl's has more replay value but, again, it's entirely dwarfed by that of "Brawl" mode. Like I said in another thread, it would probably be made into a better experience as a whole if they put less focus on the single player and more into the multiplayer because, seeing how the SSE took up close to 60-65% of Brawl's development time, would you say that it genuinely reflected that? I like the single player mode but I know that to most people who play the games that they are really just a minor footnote and sometimes avoided altogether except to unlock certain things.

 

[Big-Cat]

Instead of having a huge story with everyone, just have a small story for each character, ending with a unique boss. Maybe some characters stories can intertwine.

It'd make more sense for certain characters to share bosses. Who else but Ganondorf would be a good choice for Zelda and Toon Link? Bowser for the Mario characters, K. Rool for the DK characters, Mewtwo for the Pokemon characters, etc. The villains would naturally fight the protagonist of their respective series.

 

[Fatmanonice]

How about every franchise have its own story/path with slightly different variations for the villians?

For Brawl, you would have had:

Mario, DK, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber, ROB, Kirby, Pikmin, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pokemon, Mother, Fire Emblem, Game and Watch, Metal Gear, and Sonic-19

You could pretty much combine Mario and Yoshi and the one character Nintendo franchises (aside from Metroid and F-Zero due to their long standing)could probably be melded together which would then give us 14 story lines with different variations based on the character.

 

[DekuBoy]

That's kinda what I meant. It's hard to express it in words though. Maybe a Toon recolour for Ganon so he could be reused for Toon Link?


@Pieman

Pokemon Stadium should come back. Combine 1 and 2 and you have a great stage. If not... put in Pokemon Ranch. IDK why.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well actually on my list I have Pokemon Stadium 1 as a past stage, so its technically covered, though given that Brawl had Pokemon Stadium 1 as a past stage, while at the same time having Pokemon Stadium 2 it possible that something simmilar could happen again. (Though Pokemon Stadium 1 is on the list, 2 is not. I gave that spot to Spear Pillar)

 

[Mowrt620]

It'd make more sense for certain characters to share bosses. Who else but Ganondorf would be a good choice for Zelda and Toon Link? Bowser for the Mario characters, K. Rool for the DK characters, Mewtwo for the Pokemon characters, etc. The villains would naturally fight the protagonist of their respective series.

Uhh, did you not here what I said earlier? That's exactly what I said...

 

[Big-Cat]

Uhh, did you not here what I said earlier? That's exactly what I said...

How can I hear? We're on a forum. Sorry for not refreshing before posting, sheesh.

Scooby, go check the group. I made a suggestion for Rach- I mean Toon Link and controlling the wind.

 

[Mowrt620]

Obviously you dont heeaarrrr...and no need to sheesh, I just thought people were ignoring me....but anyways, I think toon link should just be added into the LoZ "story" instead of a toon ganondorf

 

[BlackLightning90]

IMO, I think the SSE just needed a bit more improving. It just need a longer plot that makes more sense.
The story was sometimes confusing and it was surprisingly short. Having characters with their own story sounds like a good idea. Maybe 2 bosses for each character, one for the middle and the other for the ending of the story. It's either that or no story for SSB4.

 

[justaway12]

@Story thing: I would love it if the story was like Tekken, I don't think Sakurai will remove Master Hand any time soon, he might also bring back Tabuu/new boss, so I think it wouuld work out best if every character had a story in the begining, a conversation in the middle/near end and then defeat Master hand.

 

[Pieman0920]

The whole: Begining, mid-way cutscene, end boss formula is basically arcade mode which is essentially the classic mode that we have now. Plus not all characters really are suited for interaction, given them being mute. What connection does G&W have to anyone, and what would he say? Same goes for things like the Ice Climbers, or one of the random Pokemon.

 

[justaway12]

Same can be said for Tekken, for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMTAoEAlKds, he has no connection to Mokujin but they still make contact, Mr.G&W and R.O.B can basically do the same thing.

I heard people taking about individual, shorter stories, and I would personally like to see this more than the whole adventure thing, maybe closer to Melee's mode I guess, they start with the mushroom kingdom, fight someone, move on, talk to someone in the middle move on and end, I enjoyed the story in SSE, but I just think some characters were used more than others.

 

[Mowrt620]

IMO, I think the SSE just needed a bit more improving. It just need a longer plot that makes more sense.
The story was sometimes confusing and it was surprisingly short. Having characters with their own story sounds like a good idea. Maybe 2 bosses for each character, one for the middle and the other for the ending of the story. It's either that or no story for SSB4.

Well, mid-bosses and final bosses is way too much. If each series is gonna have their own story, the story should be moderately short, for the most part, I guess. It's kind of like a quick demo of the series, i guess...

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, mid-bosses and final bosses is way too much. If each series is gonna have their own story, the story should be moderately short, for the most part, I guess. It's kind of like a quick demo of the series, i guess...

Well, the mid-boss would more or less be a rival fight. Speaking of which, Mario should have some special condition where he fights Sonic. For the sake of simplicity, every character should have Master Hand and/or Crazy as the final boss.

Again, I'm not all that big on a big storyline. A Dissidia like plot would suffice. At most, the most difficult thing is uniting all the characters in one storyline. I'm thinking that maybe the Hands are in clash with each other. As a result of all this chaos, all the Nintendo, and then some, universes are all mixed up. The characters have to team up to find a way to restore things back to normal. The villains, on the other hand, have other plans in mind.

This way, the characters are not trophies or something, and the crossover aspect is better realized.

 

[SixrchBattosai]

Well, the mid-boss would more or less be a rival fight. Speaking of which, Mario should have some special condition where he fights Sonic. For the sake of simplicity, every character should have Master Hand and/or Crazy as the final boss.

Again, I'm not all that big on a big storyline. A Dissidia like plot would suffice. At most, the most difficult thing is uniting all the characters in one storyline. I'm thinking that maybe the Hands are in clash with each other. As a result of all this chaos, all the Nintendo, and then some, universes are all mixed up. The characters have to team up to find a way to restore things back to normal. The villains, on the other hand, have other plans in mind.

This way, the characters are not trophies or something, and the crossover aspect is better realized.

I totally agree. Maybe the clash of the hands creates some sort of multi-universe semi-apocalypse. They ARE the left and right hands, things that should always agree.

I like the "villains have other plans" thing. I think it's interesting and a worthwhile idea. Maybe Ganon (and/or Xemnas, if KH is put into SSB4 >_>) would want to be able to control all of the universes. Maybe some Pokemon villains *coughCyruscough* would want in as well, but have even more other plans to control it themselves. Maybe the clash between Master and Crazy Hand re-creates the Dialga vs. Palkia issue and time and space are warped, melding the universes together.

Also, the whole "trophy" idea is stupid. I only really cared for it in SSB because it was original. Now, just because you have the option to use the character trophies, you don't have to integrate it into the storyline. That's a stupid idea.

ALSO, I would like to have dialogue in the Story Mode. I don't care if it takes longer. I just want to know just what the hell the characters are saying. It got especially annoying during the Captains scene came along. I thought, "Okay, why not EXPLAIN why you should go after the floating cargo haul? THAT way, you don't look like a reckless idiot!"

Another issue is the characters emoting. For example, when Olimar lost all but ONE of his Pikmin, I thought he would have been at least a LITTLE sad. In the Pikmin games, he cared about them. He didn't treat them as things. Him absolutely not caring that they died is very OOC.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to disagree.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

Why cant the storyline be centered around the trophy aspect? Isn't the whole concept supposed to resemble that of some random guy playing with his toys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMlwNVqdhNc

No, no, just like the 'standard' color scheme change is unecessary, plots that cater to nostalgia are not needed.

BTW, wouldn't removing the trophy concept mean that the master hand has to go too?
Although you may not like it, Smash was Sakurai's project from the beggining, it should remain something that resembles his ideals (hence don't go to far from the original design of 64) or else we WILL have another Dissidia.

IMO, the Smash should focus on redesigning the Classic Mode, anything else (mashed up worlds in adventure mode) would come secondary.

It sort of goes with my desire to revert to Smash 64's character roster from the start (Original 8/7) through classic mode characters like C.Falcon, Marth, Ness, Pit are unlocked, THEN through other modes we get Lucas and Ike. When you have new characters right from the start, there's no drive explore the content of the game since you know FOR SURE that, say, Luigi will be in the game. Especially when the game just throws characters at you, there's no need to do anything really. No need to try Home Run mode, No need to complete the Event Matches, it becomes pretty boring without any drive to do any of these things

 

[RickyPro]

Why cant the storyline be centered around the trophy aspect? Isn't the whole concept supposed to resemble that of some random guy playing with his toys?

Yeah, I constantly think about that. I like that the trophies were thrown into the story, but not past first being "activated" and not being used in every cutscene. It just got old fast. Also, I thought about the Master Hand and Crazy hand not belonging to the same person. Like.. Crazy hand is the Master Hand guy's friend. Explaining the completely different personalitis and such.

Especially when the game just throws characters at you,

A few hours on the game, and you have every character. And add like 1 more hour and you have all the stages.
I strongly dislike that because I must admit, I never play in the stadium and such other than doing challenges and stuff. But if the character unlocking came through doing something from almost every aspect of the game, then it would be more appreciated as a game in my opinion.


As for the storyline: I think Tabuu was ok. I did not like that he overpowered the hands, and I do not like how Crazy hand did nothing to help out his fellow hand.
But maybe Crazy hand and Master hand should war or whatever because one wants more power? I just liked that whole idea. Maybe the not helping Master hand in Brawl could be a motive to the Masterhand to cut himself off after Crazy hand tries to get more power or something. Sorry, I am not good at this.

 

[Simon Mason 1883277018]

Spider-Man would be a nice character to include, along with other Marvel heroes like Iron-Man and Wolverine.

 

[RickyPro]

Spider-Man would be a nice character to include, along with other Marvel heroes like Iron-Man and Wolverine.

Eh... Well, I do admit, it would be fun to an extent. But never would I agree with that idea. No offense. But No.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Spider-Man would be a nice character to include, along with other Marvel heroes like Iron-Man and Wolverine.

Uhhhhhh no.

 

[n88]

Marvel characters will never happen in a Smash game, and they shouldn't. If you really wannna see Marvel and Nintendo characters square off, hope Nintendo steals from Capcom, and creates Marvel vs. Nintendo (Something I would actually like to see).

 

[RickyPro]

Haha. Peach vs. Hulk.

 

[DekuBoy]

Marvel no longer exists. You can expect to see characters like Wolverine in any upcoming Disney games though!

But seriously. Remember having to play like, 20 hours to unlock Mewtwo? Nowadays I just have to reflect five projectiles to unlock Ness.

 

[RickyPro]

Haha. "Disney presents! The little Mutant who could!"

"How to unlock Ness, Lucario, and Jigglypuff...1) Turn on wii. 2) Press start. Tadaa!"

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Stuff about adventure mode

See; People don't want something as a base of Melee to look nice and fancy. People want something as a base of Melee so the developers won't spend half of there time working on a mode we'll only play once.

Seriously, any replay value ideas to this even?

Why cant the storyline be centered around the trophy aspect?

Subspace Trainwreck.

"How to unlock Ness, Lucario, and Jigglypuff...1) Turn on wii. 2) Press start. Tadaa!"

And I assume Wolf, TL, and ROB are unlocked by playing 3 matches!