[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[n88]

Personally, i'd put Bowser Jr. above "Questionable". He hasn't been around for as long as other Mario characters, but he's sure as **** making up for it fast. In games like Sunshine and NSMB, his role was bigger than Bowser's or Peach's. And while there are Bowser Jr. haters, he's stilll a very popular character.

How is he a "Questionable" pick?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Personally, i'd put Bowser Jr. above "Questionable". He hasn't been around for as long as other Mario characters, but he's sure as **** making up for it fast. In games like Sunshine and NSMB, his role was bigger than Bowser's or Peach's. And while there are Bowser Jr. haters, he's stilll a very popular character.

How is he a "Questionable" pick?

I'll run over this topic again like I did with Toise in a short version:

Sunshine and NSMB Are the only ones I hear that are actually bigger than everyone Else's. Anyways: Considering the current four + Yoshi have a HUGE (Emphasis on this) Standard on the pole to fall, 2 games to Toad/Bowser Jr isn't that convincing.

However, Nintendo doesn't seem to be dropping him anytime soon from the Mario games, so If he does turn far closer to those, he can get in, but for now he is a questionable pick mainly due to the series priority.

Questionable is basically similar to Mid, except with more focus on the characters it has itself. Not much different, or I would've just thrown "Low" On it and called it a day.

 

[SmashChu]

Here's the thing however: In the simplest form, almost every theory can be around as logical as another one. Heck, I could make one up. Watch.

When Sakurai was making the roster, he went on youtube to make some victory themes. He forgot wolf but accidently added in Mewtwo's and Roy's which were going to be Marth's and Lucario's, but he named them in the files as Mewtwo's and Roy's since he was out drunk having a party. When asked If he should remove the files, Sakurai went "Nah, those victory themes are really hot" And when brawl was gold, the blank files stuck in there with the typo.

Now, of course this isn't what happened, but this is when you bring theories to the simplest form.

No, that's not logical as

1. We have no reason to beleive it is true
2. What would he keep content that was not going to be accessable to the player at one point (you don't keep stuff becuase it was hot).
3. Your entire theory is based on a mistake. If it were a mistake, it would have been corrected (as it was easy to spot)
4. It makes no sense

So no, the theory is not logical in the smallest sense.

Also, a theory can work because there is evidence to back it up. Mewtwo has voice files as well as attack effects, meaning he was considered for a while.

Here's the point:
Mewtwo and Roy could have gotten far in development, or they couldn't have - Possible they will be in Smash 4? The series is Static. We have no way to tell for sure.

Toise explained it really well again, so

Seven characters have empty folders. Only two of those characters are referenced in anything outside of those empty folders. This means that those two stood out from the rest, that these two were the last ones to be cut. Probably helps that they're both very popular veterans.

If the other characters were seriously considered, they would've had their names pop up in other places too. Instead they have just the empty folders with all these underscores and such. One of the characters still doesn't exist three years later (no, Toon Sheik isn't Tetra unless it says Tetra, it takes five seconds to rename a folder; the Toon Zelda/Sheik folders were almost definitely just copies of the regular Zelda/Sheik, the dev team must have dropped them before they even bothered doing anything with it).

The only reason you could think Mewtwo and Roy weren't seriously considered is if you assumed there were other characters not referenced on the disc who made it even further. That'd make sense if there was a reason for the dev team to thoroughly remove traces of only some of the characters they cut.


Now yes, Wolf doesn't have one of these, but there's plenty of evidence that says Wolf was the last Nintendo character added (I really doubt Sonic came before him, but ignore Sonic for now). All that means is that he was added after the victory themes were dropped.

And I don't know why you assume I think Roy's a shoe-in (especially when I don't consider anyone a shoe-in). Unless you mean "shoe-in for most likely FE character that currently exists as of 2009," in which case yes, he's the only one with a chance because he's a popular veteran. Same with Mewtwo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No, that's not logical as

1. We have no reason to beleive it is true
2. What would he keep content that was not going to be accessable to the player at one point (you don't keep stuff becuase it was hot).
3. Your entire theory is based on a mistake. If it were a mistake, it would have been corrected (as it was easy to spot)
4. It makes no sense

So no, the theory is not logical in the smallest sense.

Also, a theory can work because there is evidence to back it up. Mewtwo has voice files as well as attack effects, meaning he was considered for a while.

Didn't know about the attack effects, point is still we won't know why he was dropped or anything. I suppose they were considered to a certain extent but I'm just sick of hearing all these theories. I know these characters are some of people's favorites but you know, SE Is one of my favorite third-party companies. Beware the Forest Mushrooms was on it. Does that mean I'm gonna hold onto that and write a bunch of theories down? Nope. Only time will tell.

edit: Oh, main point is we don't even know why they were dropped.

Oh, and just link the specific post instead of quoting Toise's entire wall, but that works too.

Also:

I don't consider anyone/newcomers a Shoe-In

SmashChu, you got one part of this that I really like

 

[Big-Cat]

No, that's not logical as

1. We have no reason to beleive it is true
2. What would he keep content that was not going to be accessable to the player at one point (you don't keep stuff becuase it was hot).
3. Your entire theory is based on a mistake. If it were a mistake, it would have been corrected (as it was easy to spot)
4. It makes no sense

So no, the theory is not logical in the smallest sense.

Also, a theory can work because there is evidence to back it up. Mewtwo has voice files as well as attack effects, meaning he was considered for a while.


Toise explained it really well again, so

God, you're such a killjoy. The theory was blatantly illogical, and you can tell he did it on purpose.

 

[Auddy]

I wanna see Banjo-kazzoie in the game, along with Megaman, Bomberman, and all the other characters from the previous SSB games. Put Pichu, Mewtwo, Roy and whoever else I'm forgetting from Melee back in SSB4 with all the new characters from Brawl. Also, make SSB4 faster paced like Melee was, I don't like Brawl as much as Melee for that reason.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

edit: Oh, main point is we don't even know why they were dropped.

"What happened in the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn't. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly I can't discuss which ones didn't make it."
- Mr. S

I don't want to have to dumb that down even further.


Koops, you have a tendency to write off things you personally don't understand as "nobody knows!" That and mangling some of the theories I've been explaining over these last few months. You gotta stop doing that.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

"What happened in the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn't. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly I can't discuss which ones didn't make it."
- Mr. S

I don't want to have to dumb that down even further.

Nope, you don't have to dumb that down even further. This is finally some proof that isn't just the files and "My theory > Your theory" I've always still considered Roy/Mewtwo possible for Smash 4 anyways, just never as Shoe-Ins or there chances being shot up over the roof. As I said, I consider most of the possible Pokemon/Fire Emblem suggestions in a Purgatory.

Bad habits die hard. Just like the () Habit I had a while ago.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well my uncalled for opinion is basically that the veterans who got cut likely will not get in unless something funky happens. To that end, I'd say that Roy actually may have the larger chance than Mewtwo, since the chance of something funky happening with him is higher, and he doesn't have that whole generation mess holding him down...though he's still a clone. Actually while those those two are usually mentioned together they are sort of opposites in several things, such as Roy being quite popular in Melee but really disliked in his own game, while Mewtwo was the least liked in Melee but one of the favorites of the original generation.

In any case, they are in the past now and it just doesn't make much sense to add them in when it comes to the current trends they have of bringing in the newest characters. Its possible they show up again sure, but I personally doubt it very much.

 

[MKOwnage]

Maybe add Tails or Knuckles but not the whole Sonic crew. I think Snake should be replaced with a new 3rd party (Ratchet from Ratchet&Clank would be bomb). Although MK is my main they should make some adjustments to balance him out more.
I prefer Lucario over Mew Two so Lucario should stay .
Pokemon trainer should have different Pokemon Chim Char,Turtwig and Piplup would be cool. Only they should probably evolve two of them like they did in Brawl.
WaLuigi and Daisy should be added.

New Stages
___________
Rythm Heaven stage
Brain Age stage
Super Mario Galaxy stage
DeDeDe's arena (from super star ultra.)
I don't know how they will incorporate the first three I just thought they would be cool.

 

[IkesHomeboy23]

My character list

1.Knuckles the Echidna
2. One of the metal gears
3. Toad
4. Po
5. Optimus prime!

 

[BEES]

The Brawl reviews all praise the overall gameplay. A couple of them do notice the speed difference but there aren't any complaints. The fact that some don't even mention it is a testament to how natural Brawl's physics engine feels.

http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/reviews/wii/super-smash-bros-brawl-p1.asp

Here is a negative Brawl review. It reads like something that could have easily been written by someone on smashboards.

Now the Melee reviews generally praise its gameplay as well, but many of them complain about the speed. Obviously that seemed to be the prevalent thought since Sakurai decided that the pacing of the game would be toned down back in Brawl's early stages.

I think there is a comfortable middle speed-wise between Melee and Brawl. Some things in Melee happened so fast you couldn't really appreciate them before other things happened, and I recognize that. I liked the addition of hitlag, and I rather missed it in B+, but then I think the wrong people are in charge of B+.

Suppose you took Brawl, upped the speed a bit, maybe 10-20%. Made Tripping optional. Increased hitstun enough to facilitate combos, and maybe added some extra moves.
-differentiating fsmash and bsmash
-differentiating ftilt and btilt
-changing many characters' specials to make them more important to their playstyle. Mario for instance - instead of downB doing the stupid fludd thing, it could cycle through his powerups in Super Mario Bros. games. Raccoon/Fire/Boot/Hammerbro/Bee/Whatever, and that changes his neutral B. Similar things for other characters. Give them some sort of wacky hijinx with their specials. That is REAL depth. It's also fun depth. It adds to the re-playability of the game for all types of players.

On top of that, I think real ATs could be incorporated without posing a major technical barrier for new players.

Suppose some type of slide were added? Maybe holding Z and dashing causes it. Some kinds of conditional cancels. Certain moves have IASA frames into certain other moves. No extra button reflexes needed, just knowledge of the character. Make all the changes I'm suggesting, and you're already looking at a deeper game than Melee or Brawl. It's starting to sound closer to Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter.

A skilled player is familiar with the game or has the dedication to spend time improving their ability. They have a much higher tolerance to frustration than a beginner. They're familiar with the game enough to react fast enough to most things (unless they have terrible reflexes).

I'm going to rely on anecdotes here. Personal ones. Me for instance. I started playing Melee months before Brawl came out--Literally had not heard of Smash Bros. before that. Yes, I lived in a cave pretty much. I have terrible reflexes. First character I ever played? Falco. I never switched.

I learned the game with
-small ledge sweetspots
-high gravity
-high speed

I became proficient at all the basic aspects of the game by the time Brawl came out. Obviously I couldn't wavedash or l-cancel, so since Brawl didn't have any of those you'd think I would be the ideal target audience for Brawl.

Surprisingly not so much.

I got bored of Brawl after a few months of trying to find combos and slowly accepting that there weren't any. The game had too much run/hit/run/get hit/run/hit/run/get hit. Without items it's all defense. I switched to Brawl+ when that came out, and got into Melee again after that. Haven't played regular Brawl in a long time and I don't intend to.

I spent a very uncomfortable month of my life teaching my retardedly slow fingers to wavedash, jcshine, and shffl, a year after Brawl came out. Why? Because Melee was fun enough for me to make sacrifices for it. A month of playing Brawl is even more aggravating, because your inability to beat your opponent is not something you can change. It's a dead end, and you reach it too soon.

Now, assume the default speed of SSB4 was around the same as it is in Brawl. Assume there was also a speed switch that lets you modify speed by percentage (as low as 20% and as high as 500%). While we're at it, do the same with gravity or even hitstun. Throw in the option to save the default settings of the game on top of that.

That sounds excellent, and I hope that's the direction they take. I think the ideal speed is somewhere between 105-120% of Brawl's. Choices are good. But I severely doubt most casual players would agree with your philosophy about ideal gameplay. I'd be willing to bet they'd have tripping off, hitstun up, gravity up, and speed up just like they already do with stocks and items usually.

Although I sometimes turn the items on just for the heck of it. They're nice to have around. Options are good. I certainly won't knock your solution.

 

[Big-Cat]

Suppose you took Brawl, upped the speed a bit, maybe 10-20%. Made Tripping optional. Increased hitstun enough to facilitate combos, and maybe added some extra moves.
-differentiating fsmash and bsmash
-differentiating ftilt and btilt
-changing many characters' specials to make them more important to their playstyle. Mario for instance - instead of downB doing the stupid fludd thing, it could cycle through his powerups in Super Mario Bros. games. Raccoon/Fire/Boot/Hammerbro/Bee/Whatever, and that changes his neutral B. Similar things for other characters. Give them some sort of wacky hijinx with their specials. That is REAL depth. It's also fun depth. It adds to the re-playability of the game for all types of players.

I like your ideas, but how would it work with backwards attacks?

Regarding the specials, I couldn't agree with this any more. To me, it's the specials that define the character. As such, they should be vital to their strategies, perhaps more so than their A moves and grabs.

Suppose some type of slide were added? Maybe holding Z and dashing causes it. Some kinds of conditional cancels. Certain moves have IASA frames into certain other moves. No extra button reflexes needed, just knowledge of the character. Make all the changes I'm suggesting, and you're already looking at a deeper game than Melee or Brawl. It's starting to sound closer to Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter.

The slide thing sounds kinda similar to my Neo Wavedashing idea. Could you clarify on what you have in mind for this slide?

IASA, is just like canceling from other fighters, fight? I'd like to see this too, and maybe every character should have at least one where they can cancel into certain specials.

 

[BEES]

I like your ideas, but how would it work with backwards attacks?

Simple - the same way you can do upB in different directions. Alternatively, with dash dancing and neo-wavedashing as you call it, the positioning tools are there to use f and b attacks in any situation they are needed.

 

[mariorocks64]

Little mac is a shoe-in
a boxing ring should be a stage.

This stage will be a neutral stage. only feature is the ropes that act like the ones from WWE The crowd will cheer in the background.

Bear hugger would be a unique as a trophy

 

[Big-Cat]

Simple - the same way you can do upB in different directions. Alternatively, with dash dancing and neo-wavedashing as you call it, the positioning tools are there to use f and b attacks in any situation they are needed.

The problem with the former is that you have the ability for only some UpBs to move the attack during the animation. Doing that now would just do a quick turn around and do the side B. Then again, I'm probably over analyzing things here.

I'm having a problem understanding your alternative. Maybe it's the word choice here.

What do you think of the input for backwards attacks to be right left B when facing to the right?

 

[BEES]

The problem with the former is that you have the ability for only some UpBs to move the attack during the animation. Doing that now would just do a quick turn around and do the side B. Then again, I'm probably over analyzing things here.

I'm having a problem understanding your alternative. Maybe it's the word choice here.

What do you think of the input for backwards attacks to be right left B when facing to the right?

I'll try to explain:

To bsmash if you're already lined up
<-A
To bsmash if you're facing the wrong way
<-A, ->
And here's fsmash if you're lined up
->A
Fsmash changing directions
->A, <-


If you use the c-stick, just hold the control stick in the direction you want while c-sticking the attack you want.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I reckon it would be sweet if they had some Starwars characters. Like I don't see it happening or anything, but it would be so sweet.

Darth Vader:
Grabs with the force then pumble would be choke. (Not to mention that his throws would be sick)
Obviously, most of his A attacks would be lightsaber based.
Specials would be Force moves like push, pull and saber throw.
He'd have a slow walk but he'd have a decent run (sorta float forward like Meta)
Double jump = force jump.
It could work.

Boba fett:
Up-B = Jet packs (Think Rob)
Other specials would include flamethrower, blaster and a missile
Hand to hand combat for A's.
His grab could be a tether grab cause he has that whipcord thing.
Yeah I'm outa ideas here.

I'm not even a massive fan of Starwars or anything, and I still think it would be awesome.

(Bomber man would also be sweet.)

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^No offense, but there's no chance that we'll see a Star Wars representative in the next Smash Bros.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You know what? Discussing predictable characters is pretty boring here. I suppose I might as well pick up where Cafe left off. I'll be listing almost every possible PC That people have been shouting out in this thread.

Realistic idea? Not really that much, continuing on... Also the "Strikes" Are a joke.

Alright, so you all know how Alter-Ego's have been suggested, right? Mainly by Kuma. I decided to take that to the next level, as in have some ridiculous Alter-Ego's for certain characters who weren't really worthy of a PC Slot.

The important part however with Alter-Ego's is that they aren't exactly the same person, or sometimes not even from the same game due to Model's. However these characters will play a role in the story idea instead of creating a bazillion new characters like Tron Tabuu.

Oh, finally: Everything won't even match with the same series. For instance, Michiah has Zelda's moveset in Alter-Ego's.

One last thing:
Character - Alter Ego.

Mario
Mario - Dr. Mario
Luigi - Mr.L
Peach - Daisy
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Bowser Jr - One of the Koopalings
Toad - Fawful OR Toadette. Was also thinking Toadsworth

Yoshi
Yoshi - Dry Bones OR Rex. I personally was thinking Rex.
Kamek - Kammy Koopa

LoZ
Link - ...uh...I can't think of anyone who's actually a different person.
Zelda/Shiek - Michiah/Sothe. Ok, transforming on that will be really creepy. I know.
Ganondorf - Zant?
Toon Link - Majora's Mask Link

Pokemon
Pikachu - Pichu. Duh.
Lucario - Mewtwo Uh...Your guess is as good as mine. Alakazam?
Mewtwo - Lucario Gardevoir!
Jigglypuff - Wigglypuff? Or another Floaty poke.
Pokemon Trainer - Girl PT With some other pokemon. Undecided because asides from Sqruitle, I can't find good replacements for Jack!

Donkey Kong
DK - Funky Kong
Dixie Kong - That Trixie or w/e kong
Diddy Kong - Donkey Kong Jr.
K Rool - ...Wart! (Unless he has changing costumes)

Fire Emblem
Marth - Sigurd!
Ike - Marth No Clue.
Roy - Leaf

Starfox
Fox - James Mccloud
Krystal - Uh...
Falco - Leon!
Wolf - Uh...

F-Zero
C. Falcon - Blood Falcon
Samurai Goroh - No. Clue.
Black Shadow - Deathborne
Jody Summer - Whatever. She probably won't be playable in Smash 4 anyways.

Mother
Ness - Ninten
Lucas - Kid Claus...Or...Uh...And...I...Uh...
Masked Man - Jeff!
Pokey - I got stuck here.

Kirby
Kirby - Waddle Dee
Meta-Knight - Galactia Knight
King Dedede - Wart (OH YEAH I WENT THERE)

Metroid
Samus - Dark Samus
Ridley - Meta-Ridley

Wario
Wario - Uh...
Captain Syrup - And...
Mona - Annd...
Jimmy T - Jeff with Disco Clothes? Nope. No clue.

Other stuff
Olimar - Louie
Isaac - Felix (...)
Saki - Isa (Or other way around)
Little Mac - Other Little Mac?
Stafy - That girl Stafy?
Ice Climbers - Baby Mario & Luigi Duo?
Game & Watch - I tried really hard on this one. No. Luck.
Pit - Sora Nope.
ROB - ...SAKURAIII
Sukapon - One of the other Joy Mech robots


Third-Party junk
Sonic - Nack, Knucles, or Tails. I'd go with the tails but the tails themselves pose a problem. Shadow would be the easist for this slot. Whatever.
Snake - Cloud Hmm...
Black Mage - Blue Mage
Megaman - Uh...Zero? I just got into this.

And now to discuss the ridiculousness.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't really understand how you're choosing those things, Koopa. You seem to want the characters to have alts that are infact different characters, but you break your rules multiple times. (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Ridley are all the same characters as your alts there) In any case, I would make the following suggestions

Peach - Sports Peach of Shadow Queen possessed Peach. (Daisy is too close to Peach as it is. All you need is just a change of colors)
Bowser Jr. (His could be one where his hair and shell color changes to that of one of the seven Koopalings. Instead of alternate colors, you would just have the other Koopaling's hair style/shells instead)
Yoshi - Unknown (I don't know who it could be, but it can't be Dry Bones. It'd be weird enough to see a skeleton produce eggs, but having a tongue too is just pushing it.
Link - Zora Armor or Gold Armor or FD Link (You have Mario is a different costume, so what's wrong with doing that to Link?)
Ganondorf - OoT Ganondorf or WW Ganondorf (Zant really doesn't fit all that well there. Actually you might be able to throw in Black Shadow here)
Toon Link - Crab Shirt Link or Train Conductor Link (Young Link from MM doesn't have the same body type
Pokemon - Hats and stuff (Okay this isn't that creative, but swaping them with other Pokemon simply doesn't work)
Diddy - Unknown (You can't really have DK. Jr there since he doesn't have a tail)
K. Rool - Just give him his other costumes as a alt instead of Wart...thoguh Wart could work better here than he could with King Dedede.
Marth - Roy (They'll probably be clones anyways, so what's the problem here?)
Ike - RD Ike or Black Knight (RD Ike seems like the best pick, since BK is kinda hefty there. Still it could be done I think)
Falco - Assault Falco
Krystal - Assault Krystal or Adventures Krystal (Whichever you're not using as her standard)
Wolf - Wolf 64 (Use his design from the N64 game. If not that you could use another memeber of Star Wolf here, since they match his fighting style closer than they do to Falco's or Fox's.)
C. Falcon - Pheonix (Blood Falcon is just a alt color)
Goroh - Goroh's alt from X or Antonio (Don't pick Antonio though)
Jody and BS - Won't get in~
Lucas - Proto Lucas - Use Lucas' design from Earthbound 64. Also those other Mother characters probably won't get in.
Kirby - Unknown (I don't quite know here, but Waddle Dee doesn't have a mouth)
Dedede - Masked Dedede
Wario - Overalls Wario (Really now, he already has this)
Mona - Different costume (Mona's had dozens of costumes in all the WW games, so this is easy enough)
Syrup and Jimmy probably won't get in.
Little Mac - Pink Jumpsuit
Ice Climbers - Balloon Fighters (Give em the Balloon Fighter outfits. Sakurai seems to like linking these two series together)
Pit - Classic Pit (Before his redeisn...though he'd keep the weapons)
ROB - Ancient Minister
Snake - Naked Snake probably. Or Old Snake.
Mega Man - Any of the other frigging versions of Mega Man. Also Proto Man or Bass would be better for the original MM than Zero is.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't really understand how you're choosing those things, Koopa. You seem to want the characters to have alts that are infact different characters, but you break your rules multiple times. (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Ridley are all the same characters as your alts there) In any case, I would make the following suggestions

Oh, right. I should explain further.

They have to be different characters entirely but not different enough for a PC Slot OR Have enough of a role. If they don't have a different enough role, It has to be done in melee or another game to actually work. Since remember: These characters tie in with the plot.

I mean, how much sense would it have to have Assult Falco and Command Falco in the same plot? On the contrary, you can have Luigi and Mr.L thrown in there.

However I personally wanted a better Bowser Alt. Just got stuck with it.

Now, back to commenting:

Peach - Sports Peach of Shadow Queen possessed Peach. (Daisy is too close to Peach as it is. All you need is just a change of colors)
Bowser Jr. (His could be one where his hair and shell color changes to that of one of the seven Koopalings. Instead of alternate colors, you would just have the other Koopaling's hair style/shells instead)
Yoshi - Unknown (I don't know who it could be, but it can't be Dry Bones. It'd be weird enough to see a skeleton produce eggs, but having a tongue too is just pushing it.
Link - Zora Armor or Gold Armor or FD Link (You have Mario is a different costume, so what's wrong with doing that to Link?)
Ganondorf - OoT Ganondorf or WW Ganondorf (Zant really doesn't fit all that well there. Actually you might be able to throw in Black Shadow here)
Toon Link - Crab Shirt Link or Train Conductor Link (Young Link from MM doesn't have the same body type
Pokemon - Hats and stuff (Okay this isn't that creative, but swaping them with other Pokemon simply doesn't work)
Diddy - Unknown (You can't really have DK. Jr there since he doesn't have a tail)
K. Rool - Just give him his other costumes as a alt instead of Wart...thoguh Wart could work better here than he could with King Dedede.
Marth - Roy (They'll probably be clones anyways, so what's the problem here?)
Ike - RD Ike or Black Knight (RD Ike seems like the best pick, since BK is kinda hefty there. Still it could be done I think)
Falco - Assault Falco
Krystal - Assault Krystal or Adventures Krystal (Whichever you're not using as her standard)
Wolf - Wolf 64 (Use his design from the N64 game. If not that you could use another memeber of Star Wolf here, since they match his fighting style closer than they do to Falco's or Fox's.)
C. Falcon - Pheonix (Blood Falcon is just a alt color)
Goroh - Goroh's alt from X or Antonio (Don't pick Antonio though)
Jody and BS - Won't get in~
Lucas - Proto Lucas - Use Lucas' design from Earthbound 64. Also those other Mother characters probably won't get in.
Kirby - Unknown (I don't quite know here, but Waddle Dee doesn't have a mouth)
Dedede - Masked Dedede
Wario - Overalls Wario (Really now, he already has this)
Mona - Different costume (Mona's had dozens of costumes in all the WW games, so this is easy enough)
Syrup and Jimmy probably won't get in.
Little Mac - Pink Jumpsuit
Ice Climbers - Balloon Fighters (Give em the Balloon Fighter outfits. Sakurai seems to like linking these two series together)
Pit - Classic Pit (Before his redeisn...though he'd keep the weapons)
ROB - Ancient Minister
Snake - Naked Snake probably. Or Old Snake.
Mega Man - Any of the other frigging versions of Mega Man. Also Proto Man or Bass would be better for the original MM than Zero is.

Touching on them by series:
Mario: Agreed on Koopalings. Daisy could have different facial expressions and whatnot, and the alt doesn't resemble to her that much + It'll shut up "OMG DAISY" People.

Yoshi: http://sklavenbrause.deviantart.com/art/Yoshi-vs-Rex-119913114 Now that would resemble a lot better.

Link/Zelda/etc: Explained above with Link. Toon Ganon could work quite nicely, but tieing in with Tetra...Eh. I don't know. Black Shadow may also be a nice idea here.

Pokemon: Storyline. Ugh...I really don't know here, so this ones a hard one.

DK: Eh, just throw one on him. As for Rool, storyline could work there, but I dunno. New characters are too cool to resist.

Mother: Claus/Pokey have a fighting chance, but that's a completely different topic. Anyways, Proto Lucas is actually a great idea...Asides from Storyline issues. I'm still stuck on Mother ones that actually fit. D:

Kirby: We'll force Waddle Dee to have one I'm completely undecided asides from MK.

Wario: Could work since Mona has a billion, the one problem in that I explained already with other things.

Starfox: Leon - Wolf. Falco/Krystal - Undecided. Maybe Panther could work for Krystal.

F-Zero: I don't think I need to repeat myself. Still undecided.

Fire Emblem: BK Works for Ike. As for Marth, It really depends on whether Roy gets in or not. If Roy does then the Leaf/Sigurd idea works well for older fans as well. Thus we'll have a pretty expanding FE Roster while only having three actual movesets.

Other Series: Yeah, some of those idea's can work pretty well.

 

[Pieman0920]

Alts really shouldn't be put in the storyline. Its just sloppy really. It gets worse when you try to stretch every character into something that could be considered a seperate character.

Its still too close, and really isn't needed. Its like getting Toad in and saying you'd rather have the Yellow or Blue Toads from NSMBWii, despite the fact that they are simply the same with a different color. Peach has other options, and Daisy is already covered.

I never said a thing about Tetra. Though unlikely, I sort of like the idea of Micaiah/Sothe being the alt of Zelda/Sheik. In any case, by WW Ganondorf, I don't quite mean Toon Ganondorf, but rather him in the regular graphic style but in his WW duds. The thing is if he was physically changed to what he was like in WW, that'd be too much of a change. Thus its more likely to have OoT Ganondorf, since we already had that anyways.

They have a chance, but its not fighting at all. The Mother series is dead in the water right now, and the more time that passes, the less likely it is they will get a single new character, let alone two. Really, for a series with three fairly unknown games, two characters is more than enough.

Panther really wouldn't work for Krystal. I mean...really now, its just dumb imagening that. He could pottentially work well as Wolf alt, given the claws and all.

If you have a system where each character has a alt, then Roy is the most obvious thing for Marth, since he is a clone of him. There's really no need to try to expand him out like that. And there's no reason to expand it out like that with such little content.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Alts really shouldn't be put in the storyline. Its just sloppy really. It gets worse when you try to stretch every character into something that could be considered a seperate character.

Its still too close, and really isn't needed. Its like getting Toad in and saying you'd rather have the Yellow or Blue Toads from NSMBWii, despite the fact that they are simply the same with a different color. Peach has other options, and Daisy is already covered.

I never said a thing about Tetra. Though unlikely, I sort of like the idea of Micaiah/Sothe being the alt of Zelda/Sheik. In any case, by WW Ganondorf, I don't quite mean Toon Ganondorf, but rather him in the regular graphic style but in his WW duds. The thing is if he was physically changed to what he was like in WW, that'd be too much of a change. Thus its more likely to have OoT Ganondorf, since we already had that anyways.

They have a chance, but its not fighting at all. The Mother series is dead in the water right now, and the more time that passes, the less likely it is they will get a single new character, let alone two. Really, for a series with three fairly unknown games, two characters is more than enough.

Panther really wouldn't work for Krystal. I mean...really now, its just dumb imagening that. He could pottentially work well as Wolf alt, given the claws and all.

If you have a system where each character has a alt, then Roy is the most obvious thing for Marth, since he is a clone of him. There's really no need to try to expand him out like that. And there's no reason to expand it out like that with such little content.

1)It's better than SubSpace Trainwreck or Stickers. Maybe Wario can just stick to his other one and not EVERY Character needs it. I really don't even think this idea will happen but It's just fun imagining these things.

2)Shutting up people > Unknown ones. Tho a Shadow Queen Alt at the very least would be sweet. That could tie in to story.

3)...Yeah, still don't know here.

4)It's not overkill If the character is important and liked. You're thinking far into series, but I really do agree that both won't happen in Smash 4. I just listed them anyways like how I listed with Jody besides the lack of coming up with Alts.

5)...Panther for Wolf and, arg, I don't know.

6)Edit: True, but on the contrary, Roy could be given a new moveset. Not likely If he gets in anyways. I was just however listing the possibility because a lot of people here consider Roy having a good chance.

 

[Big-Cat]

You knew I was going to say this, third, so I might as well now. Paula should be an "alter-ego" as you call it for Ness with Kumatora and Kid Claus being ones for Lucas.

 

[Pieman0920]

1)It's better than SubSpace Trainwreck or Stickers. Maybe Wario can just stick to his other one and not EVERY Character needs it. I really don't even think this idea will happen but It's just fun imagining these things.

How would having alternate characters hamfisted into certain characters be better than SSE? I don't have a problem with alt costumes, but I really don't like the idea of having completely seperated characters being turned into skins of totally different characters, especially where there are better actual alts that can be used instead.

2)Shutting up people > Unknown ones. Tho a Shadow Queen Alt at the very least would be sweet. That could tie in to story.

There's really no one to shut up though. Daisy is pretty much in the game outside of the announcer saying her name, so its completely pointless.

4)It's not overkill If the character is important and liked. You're thinking far into series, but I really do agree that both won't happen in Smash 4. I just listed them anyways like how I listed with Jody besides the lack of coming up with Alts.

It is overkill when the series is dead, small, and virtually unknown. The presumption that a series will have to keep on expanding in unknown future games is dumb in of itself, because there's no saying if there will even be a Smash 4, let alone a Smash #whatever when someone like Jody gets in. Heck, it makes even less sense to expand a dead series like Mother when it reaches Smash 5 or 6 than it does for Smash 4.

5)...Panther for Wolf and, arg, I don't know.

Panther shouldn't be for Wolf in the first place. Just give them traditional alt costumes, because trying to force other characters to have their movesets is just silly.

6)Edit: True, but on the contrary, Roy could be given a new moveset. Not likely If he gets in anyways. I was just however listing the possibility because a lot of people here consider Roy having a good chance.

Why would Roy even need a new moveset when people know him for his old one, and it is simply easier to give that to him by making him a alt of Marth? It may not be exact, but it would be closer, and less time consuming production wise, than a brand new one.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

How would having alternate characters hamfisted into certain characters be better than SSE? I don't have a problem with alt costumes, but I really don't like the idea of having completely seperated characters being turned into skins of totally different characters, especially where there are better actual alts that can be used instead.

Not quite hamfisted. Some are rather different but If they fit in the slots then why not? It pleases people more than having something else, and throwing them into story is also not a bad idea If done properly.

Back to the discussion at hand however:

There's really no one to shut up though. Daisy is pretty much in the game outside of the announcer saying her name, so its completely pointless.

Tell that to the Daisy fangirls. You could just edit Daisy's costume around a bit at least to make it feel like more than a color change and presto. Much easier like the Roy/Marth idea you have.

It is overkill when the series is dead, small, and virtually unknown. The presumption that a series will have to keep on expanding in unknown future games is dumb in of itself, because there's no saying if there will even be a Smash 4, let alone a Smash #whatever when someone like Jody gets in. Heck, it makes even less sense to expand a dead series like Mother when it reaches Smash 5 or 6 than it does for Smash 4.

Sakurai doesn't care about the Statuses of series. It's one of the bigger ones in the Smash Franchise, has a heavy fanbase, and in the series those characters are loved and Important to there series. Overkill is when you misrepresent it with someone like Jeff for the sake of it.

So yeah, the character isn't known but It's still important to an installed series. Denying characters like say Lucas in the first place just for sales charts = nope.

Panther shouldn't be for Wolf in the first place. Just give them traditional alt costumes, because trying to force other characters to have their movesets is just silly.

The idea still reflects around Alter-Ego's. They'll probably get a "Get outta jail free" Card like Wario has.

Why would Roy even need a new moveset when people know him for his old one, and it is simply easier to give that to him by making him a alt of Marth? It may not be exact, but it would be closer, and less time consuming production wise, than a brand new one.

Regardless, I get what you're saying. Either way Roy = Playable If this idea was actually considered.

You knew I was going to say this, third, so I might as well now. Paula should be an "alter-ego" as you call it for Ness with Kumatora and Kid Claus being ones for Lucas.

I only have one Alter-Ego per character because especially with the ones I have, It's a huge hassle. I was thinking of just having Kid Claus editted a bit and working for Lucas since it ties in story-line wise, and for Ness having Poo or just keeping it as Ninten.

 

[Pieman0920]

Not quite hamfisted. Some are rather different but If they fit in the slots then why not? It pleases people more than having something else, and throwing them into story is also not a bad idea If done properly.

In certain cases where the original character is too far away from the alt, then it is. For instance, having Dry Bones or something.

Tell that to the Daisy fangirls. You could just edit Daisy's costume around a bit at least to make it feel like more than a color change and presto. Much easier like the Roy/Marth idea you have.

Fanboys most likely. In any case, what would be easier is to just have Daisy as the alt color that she always has been for Peach. Given the pottential alt could just be a sports related Peach, the effort put in would be close to the same, but would actually have something different, and in the end, you'd technically have three things there, instead of two, all for the same price.

Sakurai doesn't care about the Statuses of series. It's one of the bigger ones in the Smash Franchise, has a heavy fanbase, and in the series those characters are loved and Important to there series. Overkill is when you misrepresent it with someone like Jeff for the sake of it.

So yeah, the character isn't known but It's still important to an installed series. Denying characters like say Lucas in the first place just for sales charts = nope.

One of the biggest? You must be joking. Its by no means small or anything, but its fanbase really isn't that large, though it is loud. (Sort of like Geno's) Its still overkill though when the series would not have had a single new game and the games never sold all that well to begin with (with two of them only being in Japan)

And you don't deny a character from getting into a game like this because their game sold badly. You add in a character to increase sales. Given that there will be no more Mother games, its pointless to add one in. The fact that the sales aren't as great as other series hurts chances for them indirectly, as it means there are fewer fans, and less chances of sequels.

The idea still reflects around Alter-Ego's. They'll probably get a "Get outta jail free" Card like Wario has.

But its still a very bad decision since it disregards the character themself in order to just add bulk to the game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

In certain cases where the original character is too far away from the alt, then it is. For instance, having Dry Bones or something.

Yeah, with Game & Watch, I've decided that a few characters are exempt from having Alter-Ego's since not everyone can fill in them

Cough Claus, Goroh, G&W, Takamaru, etc cough.

Back to discussion:

Fanboys most likely. In any case, what would be easier is to just have Daisy as the alt color that she always has been for Peach. Given the pottential alt could just be a sports related Peach, the effort put in would be close to the same, but would actually have something different, and in the end, you'd technically have three things there, instead of two, all for the same price.

I suppose when you put it that way yes, but I made this more on Storyline.

Mother stuff

Uh, yes. It does fall under one of Nintendo's bigger franchises. Not big in ammounts of games, but it certainly is given a shout-out a lot. If this is a "Your series > My Series" Let us not forget that Falco got in while Diddy Kong didn't in Smash 64. Sometimes these things with supporting characters happen, but It's surely fine as long as all the important ones needed for each series gets in.

The real debate on it comes down to whether It's Static or Evolving, which honestly, I want to just turn back onto the alt discussion since I wrote those up on what people think and since we don't need another Jody Summer debate.

But its still a very bad decision since it disregards the character themself in order to just add bulk to the game.

True, because while this idea is Hypothetical, some are a bit too crazy to even consider. I can't believe I forgot about Yoshi's Tongue when thinking about Dry Bones.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Mother isn't that big. Diddy didn't get in IIRC because there were problems with Rare....besides Lucas wasn't in melee either....

The series as little representation when compared to the other big franchises

 

[ScoobyCafe]

-differentiating fsmash and bsmash
-differentiating ftilt and btilt
-changing many characters' specials to make them more important to their playstyle. Mario for instance - instead of downB doing the stupid fludd thing, it could cycle through his powerups in Super Mario Bros. games. Raccoon/Fire/Boot/Hammerbro/Bee/Whatever, and that changes his neutral B. Similar things for other characters. Give them some sort of wacky hijinx with their specials. That is REAL depth. It's also fun depth. It adds to the re-playability of the game for all types of players.

On top of that, I think real ATs could be incorporated without posing a major technical barrier for new players.

Good ideas. Honestly have no idea why I never thought about B-tilts or B-smashes until now. Wouldn't mind some more versatility in specials, we've seen a scant amount of that in Brawl, some taken out. Definitely want to see Samus with ice missiles.

Suppose some type of slide were added? Maybe holding Z and dashing causes it. Some kinds of conditional cancels. Certain moves have IASA frames into certain other moves. No extra button reflexes needed, just knowledge of the character. Make all the changes I'm suggesting, and you're already looking at a deeper game than Melee or Brawl. It's starting to sound closer to Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter.

Agree with the latter two. The former, the input you described is either a grab or a roll, maybe both. At the moment, I don't think we can find a simple spacing input in the vein of sliding with the current controllers in mind. If we do get a Gamcube controller aternative for the next Wii system, and it has another Z button or two more shoulder buttons or a trigger, then it'll be easier.

@thethirdkoopa

When you say "Alter-ego," I take it you aren't talking about alternate costumes? I say this 'cause some of your choices are definitely wild I like, though. I like.

Speaking of Alts, I should probably suggest some.

[B]Mario[/B]
Mario - Dr. Mario
        Striker Mario
Peach - [URL="http://www.mariowiki.com/Nurse_Toadstool"]Nurse Toadstool[/URL]
        Shadow Queen
Luigi - Mr. L
        Striker Luigi
Bowser - Dry Bowser
         Wedding Bowser
Bowser Jr - Striker BJ (?)
            What Pieman said
Toad - Toadette
       Toadsworth

[B]Yoshi[/B]
Yoshi - Boshi
Kamek - Kammy Koopa
Baby Bros - Diapers

[B]LoZ[/B]
Link - Ordon Outfit
        Zora Armor
        Magic Armor or Fierce Deity
Zelda - Oot Zelda (?)
Sheik -Impa (?)
       [URL="http://www.zeldawiki.org/File:Gerudo_Guard.png"]Gerudo Suit (?)[/URL]
Ganondorf - Oot Ganon
Toon Link - Pajamas 
            Royal Engineer (Stupid, but w/e)
            [URL="http://www.zeldawiki.org/File:Komali_A.png"]Prince Komali[/URL]

[B]Pokemon[/B]
Pikachu - Raichu. Duh.
Lucario - > In my Smash Bros. 4? No.
Mewtwo - Armored Mewtwo (?)
Jigglypuff - Kirby. lol
Pokemon Trainer - Gen. trainer outfit(s)

[B]
Donkey Kong[/B]
DK - Funky Kong
Dixie Kong - Tiny Kong
Diddy Kong - Donkey Kong Jr.
K Rool - Kaptain K. Rool
         Baron K. Roolenstein
         [URL="http://www.mariowiki.com/Image:KingK.Rool_MSS.png"]Sluggers K Rool[/URL]

([I]I need to see a King K. Rool moveset. Whenever I think about him, I see a 
rather fun character to play as[/I].)

[B]Fire Emblem[/B]
Marth - Sigurd (**** Yeah)
        Shadow Dragon Marth
Ike - Lord Ike
      RD Ike
Roy - Leaf
      Eliwood 

[B]Starfox[/B]
Fox - Assault suit
      James Mccloud
Krystal - SF Adventure outfit (Calm down, furries) or Assault outfit (or both)
Falco - Assault suit
        [URL="http://www.giantbomb.com/star-fox-adventures/61-19026/all-images/52-175860/falco/51-804800/"]SF Adventure suit[/URL]
Wolf - [URL="http://fzero.wikia.com/wiki/Leon"]Leon[/URL] (Click and see. Would be hilarious)

[B]F-Zero[/B]
C. Falcon - Phoenix (Falcon... with a Cape. Hot)
            Mach Rider
Samurai Goroh - Antonio Guster
Black Shadow - Deathborne
Jody Summer - > Wut?

[B]Mother[/B]
Ness - Pajamas 
       Ninten
Lucas - Pajamas
        Commander Lucas
Pokey - Fourside suit

[B]Kirby[/B]
Kirby - Batamon (lol)
        Biospark
        Waddle Dee  
Meta-Knight - Galactia Knight
King Dedede - Wart (I support this, Koops. lol)
              Masked DeDeDe

[B]Metroid[/B]
Samus - Chozo Power Suit 
        PED Suit 
Ridley - Meta-Ridley

[B]Wario[/B]
Wario - Booster
        [URL="http://www.mariowiki.com/Thief_Wario"]Theif Wario[/URL]     
Captain Syrup - No idea
Mona - Bassist outfit
Jimmy T - [URL="http://www.mariowiki.com/Image:JimmyUtusu.png"]Utusu outfit [/URL] 

[B]Other[/B]
Andy - [URL="http://advancewars.wikia.com/wiki/Jake"]Jake[/URL]   
Olimar - Louie
Isaac - GSDS or vice versa
Saki - Ruffian Hybrid suit
Little Mac - Sweat suit
Stafy - Too many to list. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoMdSbvpTI0"]Just watch[/URL]
Jill - Tron Bonne (If Megaman gets in)
Ice Climbers - Dunno
Game & Watch - [URL="http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Stanley"]Stanley[/URL]
Pit - Centurion Armor
Takamaru - Captain Rainbow suit
ROB - Sakurai, yes.
Sukapon - Tuxedo


[B]Third-Party[/B]
Sonic - Werehog (lol)
Snake - Old Snake
Black Mage - Black Wizard outfit 
Chocobo - [URL="http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Jailbird"]Jailbird outfit[/URL]
Megaman - GBA Zero and I'll buy SSB4 regardless if it sucks

Now as for alter-egos appearing in the storyline, nah, I'm not a fan of that. Cameos, e.g. Rosalina, Paula, Proto Man, etc. and more obscure characters like Prince Sabure and Tamagon I support fully, be it as an NPC, something FMV-related, whatever... as long as they get some shine.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@ScoobyCafe: Not quite. My idea simply falls as this:

1)It's a different character - Either that or it must fit in the Story-line or somewhere SOMEHOW Well. Seriously, think about how much sense having Assult Falco and Regular Falco would be
"BRB GAIZ I'M GONNA CHANGE"
"K"
"K GAIZ NOW I'M A WHOLE NEW MAN"

However; Luigi is exempted because his can at least somewhat fit in without being completely stupid, same with Doc. (LUCAS, EAT THIS PILL)

2)They have a few changed aspects:
1 - Hitboxes: And for this, they are VERY Stripped down. Only 2-3 Alt costumes like in Smash 64. Possibly even less, like Daisy may only be useable as her form just edited and that's it.
2 - Voice Acting: Daisy with Peach's Voice? Gardevoir with Mewtwo's? Rex's with Yoshi? Am I smoking something? Of course, the "THIS GAME'S WINNER" Is also changed.
3 - Changed colors in attacks - MICHIAH USES DIN'S FIR...Nope.
4 - A Possible few edits to them - Pichu as fast as Pikachu? So what am I smoking?

Other then that, they're pretty much all cloned. So having them is mainly for the looks and for some people who really love a character, but they weren't really worth taking the time in for a full new PC Slot and considered a different character.

It however may be hard when it comes to balance, as making a character who has a smaller hitbox is saying "Oh hey I'm superior" which can lead into a lot of outbreaks.

Due to this, I believe this idea won't happen, however It brings a VERY Interesting discussion instead of the same old character debates.

+ Impossible clones have been brought up two times. Shino wanted to return to the idea and now I sort of do in a way, and Kuma's brought the idea but of them being different, like one being more offensive plays.

Also Leon is my favorite F-Zero driver. Win for throwing him on.

 

[BEES]

Agree with the latter two. The former, the input you described is either a grab or a roll, maybe both. At the moment, I don't think we can find a simple spacing input in the vein of sliding with the current controllers in mind. If we do get a Gamcube controller aternative for the next Wii system, and it has another Z button or two more shoulder buttons or a trigger, then it'll be easier.

It's a roll, but it's redundant with L-> or R->, so it's free to be used for other things. Doesn't have to work that particular way obviously. That's just the general idea.

With the wiimote/nunchuck... hmm how would that work... I actually use the wii/chuck now so this is relevant to me.

Here's a buttom mapping that would accommodate it
d-up - jump
d-left - jump
d-down - special
d-right - attack
A - unused
B - Shield
Z - grab
C - unused

That is essentially my current button layout but with the left shield button (Z) doing the grab. You could do it with shieldgrabs too (allowing you do wavedash out of a shield like Melee). I've found putting the D-pad in a diamond configuration like the classic controller makes the whole thing much better. Can't actually have D-left and D-right doing different things but that's what they should do ideally.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, with Game & Watch, I've decided that a few characters are exempt from having Alter-Ego's since not everyone can fill in them

Cough Claus, Goroh, G&W, Takamaru, etc cough.

Quite frankly, if you're really going to go so far with some of these alternate characters, Takamaru could be a alt of Goroh if Goroh's FS isn't the Fire Stingray or something. (Then again, taking into account Final Smashes, Black Shadow shouldn't be Ganondorf's.) Also, Claus could easily just be in there with Lucas...you know like he already is.

I suppose when you put it that way yes, but I made this more on Storyline.

The fact that you think that somehow these things will be an improvement for SSE makes no sense to me, especially since all of these are just poor man's versions of the characters they really could have been. In any case, you still have the alt color which fits into Daisy already, and its still pretty dumb to even include Daisy into the storyline at all.

Uh, yes. It does fall under one of Nintendo's bigger franchises. Not big in ammounts of games, but it certainly is given a shout-out a lot. If this is a "Your series > My Series" Let us not forget that Falco got in while Diddy Kong didn't in Smash 64. Sometimes these things with supporting characters happen, but It's surely fine as long as all the important ones needed for each series gets in.

The real debate on it comes down to whether It's Static or Evolving, which honestly, I want to just turn back onto the alt discussion since I wrote those up on what people think and since we don't need another Jody Summer debate.

Three games with almost no publicity or international appeal does not make it one of their bigger series. Its in the middle at best. Falco was added in as a clone, which couldn't be done with Diddy. While it is certainly possible that in the next game, Sakurai will want to add in a few more character, but not have much time for it, the odds are that it won't be Mother characters, especially since the series is over.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Quite frankly, if you're really going to go so far with some of these alternate characters, Takamaru could be a alt of Goroh if Goroh's FS isn't the Fire Stingray or something. (Then again, taking into account Final Smashes, Black Shadow shouldn't be Ganondorf's.) Also, Claus could easily just be in there with Lucas...you know like he already is.

Spoiler

was talking about the masked man

Takamaru, hmm, now that's a lot of texture changing.

The fact that you think that somehow these things will be an improvement for SSE makes no sense to me, especially since all of these are just poor man's versions of the characters they really could have been. In any case, you still have the alt color which fits into Daisy already, and its still pretty dumb to even include Daisy into the storyline at all.

On the contrary, while playing TTYD During the making of this post, I must say...Shadow Queen could work well with Mr.L Or something in the story line. Don't know, still thinking.

Spoiler

lol shadow queen pulling turnips

Three games with almost no publicity or international appeal does not make it one of their bigger series. Its in the middle at best. Falco was added in as a clone, which couldn't be done with Diddy. While it is certainly possible that in the next game, Sakurai will want to add in a few more character, but not have much time for it, the odds are that it won't be Mother characters, especially since the series is over.

It's treated for sure in Smash as one of the bigger ones, and it did help inspire Pokemon last I remember. I agree It's pretty bottom of the big franchises, but I think you're still looking too far into the series. One of the mother villians for sure is plausible If the series is considered as "Static"

 

[n88]

@ScoobyCafe

Sheik=Impa???

Please tell me there's some LoZ game I'm forgetting where Impa doesn't look like this:

 

[PowerBomb]

@ScoobyCafe

Sheik=Impa???

Please tell me there's some LoZ game I'm forgetting where Impa doesn't look like this:

lol OoT

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

[Iliad]

GIVE ME CRONO!

This is all I ask great Sakurai, so that you may appease my sadness in the failure that is brawl!

I honestly don't want anymore drastic engine changes. Just give me some fresh characters, and some GOOD characters. Who the **** wanted ROB or Olimar in the game? Honestly? Why was there no megaman? That is one of nintendos most classic ****ing franchises. No King K.Rool? I know Rare is a ****, but doesn't Nintendo own some of the DK related rights? Considering they all originated on Nintendo systems?

In conclusion- Characters missing who should have been there
Crono
Megaman
Geno
Samurai-Goroh
Mewtwo (I mean jesus christ, he was the most epic of them all!)
Little Mac

 

[MKOwnage]

GIVE ME CRONO!

This is all I ask great Sakurai, so that you may appease my sadness in the failure that is brawl!

I honestly don't want anymore drastic engine changes. Just give me some fresh characters, and some GOOD characters. Who the **** wanted ROB or Olimar in the game? Honestly? Why was there no megaman? That is one of nintendos most classic ****ing franchises. No King K.Rool? I know Rare is a ****, but doesn't Nintendo own some of the DK related rights? Considering they all originated on Nintendo systems?

In conclusion- Characters missing who should have been there
Crono
Megaman
Geno
Samurai-Goroh
Mewtwo (I mean jesus christ, he was the most epic of them all!)
Little Mac

1. Mega Man was never owned by Nintendo he is property of Capcom reason as to why he isnt in Smash Bros.
2. Whats wrong with R.O.B? He is a Nintendo classic.
3. I honestly prefer Lucario over Mew Two seeing as Lucario is a more creative and original character.
4. Nintendo does own DK.

 

[-_skinny_-]

IDK wat ppl r tlkn about rite now, but it would be friggin sweet if Travis Touchdown from NMH and NMH2:DS (cant wait for it to come out!!!!!!) was in it!!! He would have a gauge next to his damage to show how much power his katana still has...

Smash attacks would obviously use his beam katana
Special attacks would be
B: you lunge forwards and swing the katana like Ike's fsmash, but the longer u charge it, the longer the katana extends
Side B: Stun kick
Down B: Charge katana
Up B: you lunge upward and direct it like ddks up b

FINAL SMASH!!!!
either:
1)Blueberry Cheese Brownie- All the colors change and when you press b a wave of energy shoots out. its projectory would be any distance directly infront of you.
2)Anarchy in the Galaxy- you have three blasts that deal increasing damage and knockback with each followoing blast

I would cry out of joy if he is in it!!!
Also bring back Mew2, Roy, and Pichu (only damage himself up to 150%) and Dr.Mario would be one of Marios costume changes (like Wario). BRING BACK THE PARASOL!!!
Also add Knux, Shadow, MegaMan, Slippy or Peppy, and BLOOD FALCONN!!! idk how that could happen since he is an actual clone of Captain Falcon, so i could settle for Black Doom...
Keep the random tripping, it makes things way more interesting (even if it IS the MOST ANNOYING THING EVER!!!)
BRING BACK L-CANCELING!!!
Fix Meta Knight, not nerf, just fix some stuff...

Wi-fi:
LESS LAGG!!
Show names
Sell with headset so u can talk to people (although the profanity will be bad)
More modes like one for tourney rules (3 or 4-stock, 8min, neutral stages, and NO ITEMS!!)
If someones connection fails, KICK THEM OUT!!! I HATE it wen theres just some random no-act character that makes u wait a whole minute before the match starts!!

Plus i think it should be called SSBF Super Smash Bros. Fray