[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

@ Toise

Yes, because victory themes = Sakurai really wanted them.

Wolf does not have one and yet he is playable. So, how is having victory themes make Mewtwo and Roy "seriously considered" compared to Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dixie Kong, and "Pra_Mai"?

Also, just because Roy is very popular doesn't mean he is a shoe-in. Being popular does not always mean they will be playable. We had many characters considered to be shoe-ins and most of them ended up as Assist Trophies, Pokeball Pokemon, and bosses.

@ Fatmanonice

We did the same thing with SSB3 right after Melee came out. I remember as early as 2003 when I first joined Nsider and there were other fans discussing SSB3. I believe they were even complaining about the Melee roster back then. I have no doubts that when SSB4 comes out, there will be people discussing SSB5 at the same day. And they will complain about how awful the SSB4 roster is and how bad the gameplay was and how Brawl was way better than SSB4. Sometimes I think the Smash fans hate the Smash games more than the casual crowd.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Toise
Just curious, did you play 1-5?

If Roy is as popular as you claim, then I'll take your word. I like Roy, so if he really is the third choice I'm cool with it.

 

[SManDMan]

I just want them to make stage builder and online play better, besides the obvious things. Also, what clones? All the spacies aren't nearly close enough together to consider and clones, and does Toon Link's speed, jumping and MOST the moveset. All specials are a bit MORE than slightly different, all air attacks besides Uair, Usmash, Dair acts as spike, Zair doesn't go as far. Uncharged arrows go further, bombs don't do as much damage but have a wider blast area, spin attack holds them in, boomerang doesn't have the annoying wind. Ganondorf's warlock punch takes longer to charge than a falcon punch and does far more damage, he can ganoncide, among other things that I'm not going to take the time to list. Just because two characters look like each other, or used to be a clone, doesn't mean they are clones. Whoops, I ranted. It still annoys me though.

Anyway, better cast (Mega-man, the real Captain Falcon, Geno, and nobody should say Shadow, because his attacks would just be guns and a motorcycle thanks to his solo-game.) , stage builder, online and stages.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Also, what clones? All the spacies aren't nearly close enough together to consider and clones, and does Toon Link's speed, jumping and MOST the moveset. All specials are a bit MORE than slightly different, all air attacks besides Uair, Usmash, Dair acts as spike, Zair doesn't go as far. Uncharged arrows go further, bombs don't do as much damage but have a wider blast area, spin attack holds them in, boomerang doesn't have the annoying wind. Ganondorf's warlock punch takes longer to charge than a falcon punch and does far more damage, he can ganoncide, among other things that I'm not going to take the time to list. Just because two characters look like each other, or used to be a clone, doesn't mean they are clones. Whoops, I ranted. It still annoys me though.

Toon Link is most definitely a clone. Having different properties doesn't exempt you from being one if virtually all of your moves mimics a moveset of someone else; in this case, Link. It's a shame, too, because his character reeks the potential of having an amazing moveset, something which utilizes the Wind Waker and all. Wolf is another story altogether, though he (And now Falco) could be considered Luigi-fied, I didn't like how he turned out at all.

Anyway, better cast

(the real Captain Falcon)

This is correct.

 

[Big-Cat]

@ Toise

Yes, because victory themes = Sakurai really wanted them.

Wolf does not have one and yet he is playable. So, how is having victory themes make Mewtwo and Roy "seriously considered" compared to Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dixie Kong, and "Pra_Mai"?

There's several different ways to look at the whole victory themes thing. The way I see it, Wolf was set aside as a possible "filler" character prior to the unique victory themes feature. Roy and Mewtwo were always intended to be playable, more so than any of the Seven Deadly Fighters since they were the furthest in development than the others.

My memory is hazy here, but back in 2006, Sakurai mentioned that Meta Knight would have his own theme. It's possible that at this time, the feature was planned and Wolf was set aside at the time with Roy and Mewtwo still being WIP.

Of course, I hope you get this straight, Arc: Files can only tells us so much. We may never know the true nature of these files or what happened during development.

 

[sam4]

There's several different ways to look at the whole victory themes thing. The way I see it, Wolf was set aside as a possible "filler" character prior to the unique victory themes feature. Roy and Mewtwo were always intended to be playable, more so than any of the Seven Deadly Fighters since they were the furthest in development than the others.

My memory is hazy here, but back in 2006, Sakurai mentioned that Meta Knight would have his own theme. It's possible that at this time, the feature was planned and Wolf was set aside at the time with Roy and Mewtwo still being WIP.

Of course, I hope you get this straight, Arc: Files can only tells us so much. We may never know the true nature of these files or what happened during development.

(Might as well join this argument almost randomly considering I've been lurking this thread for a while and that everything I want has been most likely brought up at least one... actually, probably more than once... in this thread.)

There was ChronoBound's post a while back (proving how much I lurked ) that seemed to sum up the whole Mewtwo-Roy thing nicely, in that the original Brawl roster was everyone, minus Sonic and Wolf plus Mewtwo and Roy. To generalize, Sakurai saw the popularity of Sonic in the west towards the end of the roster thing and felt that lack of his inclusion would produce backlash among those fans (which is funny, because I don't think anyone felt like that during Melee's development, but considering how old that is maybe I'm wrong), and so he had to drop someone otherwise he couldn't possibly fit Sonic onto the character selection screen (37 spots, it definitely wouldn't be even). Through this logic, it could be said that one of the last characters in the game to be developed was, essentially, Sonic.

Mewtwo, had he made it into Brawl, would be under the other FE characters with Roy. Even with Sonic in the game, his inclusion into the CSS would be awkward from a column theme perspective. There's also the fact that Sonic's influence in the west could not be comparable to that in the east. So, Sakurai looked for a character, popular in Japan, that would restore "balance" to the character selection screen. This character was Wolf (given that he was the only character to not have a unique theme in the game coding, and that you fight him in the co-op event where you fight everyone in the game last, even after the guest third-parties). So, Sakurai dropped Roy for Sonic and Mewtwo for Wolf... and the rest is history.

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ Fatmanonice

We did the same thing with SSB3 right after Melee came out. I remember as early as 2003 when I first joined Nsider and there were other fans discussing SSB3. I believe they were even complaining about the Melee roster back then. I have no doubts that when SSB4 comes out, there will be people discussing SSB5 at the same day. And they will complain about how awful the SSB4 roster is and how bad the gameplay was and how Brawl was way better than SSB4. Sometimes I think the Smash fans hate the Smash games more than the casual crowd.

It's sad how true this is. I have an odd feeling that the competitive community will act much the same way especially with the slow spreading realization that SSB4 probably won't be compatible with Gamecube controllers. I hope Nintendo cares about this issue because the controls for everything else just feel so un-natural (especially the nunchuck combination).

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Given how most competitive players consider Brawls' core gameplay to not be adequate in quality, I sincerely doubt you'll hear many complaining, lest they water down SSB4 even further than Brawl, which I don't see happening.

And they could easily create an alternative controller that feels just like the Gamecube one. I hope they don't, 'cause that controller is pretty darn wonky. Make a better controller, please.

 

[sam4]

Given how most competitive players consider Brawls' core gameplay to not be adequate in quality, I sincerely doubt you'll hear many complaining, lest they water down SSB4 even further than Brawl, which I don't see happening.

And they could easily create an alternative controller that feels just like the Gamecube one. I hope they don't, 'cause that controller is pretty darn wonky. Make a better controller, please.

I'd say that one really isn't needed unless Nintendo makes some kind of major significant gameplay change to SSB4, which I can see happening. It's happened for Melee; they added chargeable smash attacks, side-b moves for every character, and air dodging, to name a few... and for Brawl, there's the footstool jump, the (accursed) random tripping, tethers, and things like the Smash Ball. Who's to say it won't happen again, especially considering there's already a group for gameplay changes?

 

[Big-Cat]

It's sad how true this is. I have an odd feeling that the competitive community will act much the same way especially with the slow spreading realization that SSB4 probably won't be compatible with Gamecube controllers. I hope Nintendo cares about this issue because the controls for everything else just feel so un-natural (especially the nunchuck combination).

This has been a pressing concern for me as well. I'm surprised that the competitive community hasn't taken to that realization yet.

I've been using the nunchaku combination since Brawl came out and it's always worked for me. Of course, this is because I figured out how to make the controls comfortable back when the controller was revealed.

I can tell you what won't happen: Arcade Sticks. There's no way the competitive community will tolerate it since their precious c-stick would most likely be gone. The setup, for most part, is doable aside from the taunts, and whether or not arcade sticks in the future will take into account the analog stick. My arcade stick uses the pad on my 360 controller

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I'd say that one really isn't needed unless Nintendo makes some kind of major significant gameplay change to SSB4, which I can see happening. It's happened for Melee; they added chargeable smash attacks, side-b moves for every character, and air dodging, to name a few... and for Brawl, there's the footstool jump, the (accursed) random tripping, tethers, and things like the Smash Ball. Who's to say it won't happen again, especially considering there's already a group for gameplay changes?

Oh, I'm hoping we see some great new additions for gameplay in SSB4, chances are we will see them. I just hope the core gameplay isn't the same overly sluggish, floaty, defensive mess. The flow is so awkward in Brawl.

Melee had it right, everything felt natural and true to Smash. Still, if people are going to complain about speed, slow it down a bit. Don't do all this extra stuff that Brawl did for SSB4, please.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

I'm just going to ignore what you all are going to say and throw this out there,

4th Gen

I'll also throw these out there just for fun.

http://i.neoseeker.com/bl/272/407272/2511/darkrai vs mewtwo_4992.png

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/190/b/b/Darkrai_vs_Lucario_by_TheLifeOfGaston.jpg

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs38/300W/i/2009/069/c/6/IceCave___Lucario_vs__Mewtwo_by_postbote_ais.jpg

Lol oSo, I use the wiimote + nunchuck as well. Its all about custom controls baby.

 

[Pieman0920]

...Did someone just suggest that SSB4 bring in the real Captain Falcon? There's like almost no chance of that. Falcon's Smash personality, despite never actually speaking, is far more popular than his "real" generic one. Also given the fact that it really doesn't matter if a character's personality is one way or another also sort of hinders the "real" Falcon showing up.

 

[DekuBoy]

No dude . They mean that this Captain Falcon is actually Rick Wheeler from the anime due to the scarf. Also they miss the high tier awesome Falcon.

 

[Pieman0920]

Huh? Really? Falcon's design is based off of his GX apperance (though not completely) and that version of him does have a scarf. There is no apparent content from the anime F-Zero at all, outside of the possibility that Zoda's trophy was thrown in there due to his large role in that series.

EDIT: Wait, Melee Cap has the same scarf as well, leading me to believe that the scarf comment was about something different...if so, what?

 

[Damien = God]

^I think you may like this:http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7681968&postcount=1966

Wow. That was awesome. I read that entire thing, he'd be a very interesting character. Similar to Snake. Though, I was thinking, if Raiden were to join the Smash roster, he should be the cyborg ninja he was in MGS4. Which would be incredibly BA.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@ Toise

Yes, because victory themes = Sakurai really wanted them.

Wolf does not have one and yet he is playable. So, how is having victory themes make Mewtwo and Roy "seriously considered" compared to Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Dixie Kong, and "Pra_Mai"?

Also, just because Roy is very popular doesn't mean he is a shoe-in. Being popular does not always mean they will be playable. We had many characters considered to be shoe-ins and most of them ended up as Assist Trophies, Pokeball Pokemon, and bosses.

See, this is why I can't have discussions with you. I have to break things down into the most elementary concepts and you still manage to get it wrong. Either that or you're horribly biased about something.


Seven characters have empty folders. Only two of those characters are referenced in anything outside of those empty folders. This means that those two stood out from the rest, that these two were the last ones to be cut. Probably helps that they're both very popular veterans.

If the other characters were seriously considered, they would've had their names pop up in other places too. Instead they have just the empty folders with all these underscores and such. One of the characters still doesn't exist three years later (no, Toon Sheik isn't Tetra unless it says Tetra, it takes five seconds to rename a folder; the Toon Zelda/Sheik folders were almost definitely just copies of the regular Zelda/Sheik, the dev team must have dropped them before they even bothered doing anything with it).

The only reason you could think Mewtwo and Roy weren't seriously considered is if you assumed there were other characters not referenced on the disc who made it even further. That'd make sense if there was a reason for the dev team to thoroughly remove traces of only some of the characters they cut.


Now yes, Wolf doesn't have one of these, but there's plenty of evidence that says Wolf was the last Nintendo character added (I really doubt Sonic came before him, but ignore Sonic for now). All that means is that he was added after the victory themes were dropped.

And I don't know why you assume I think Roy's a shoe-in (especially when I don't consider anyone a shoe-in). Unless you mean "shoe-in for most likely FE character that currently exists as of 2009," in which case yes, he's the only one with a chance because he's a popular veteran. Same with Mewtwo.

@Toise
Just curious, did you play 1-5?

If Roy is as popular as you claim, then I'll take your word. I like Roy, so if he really is the third choice I'm cool with it.

I've played 3-10, don't think I'll ever get around to 1 and 2 (and from what I hear, I'm not missing a whole lot with 11).

And yeah, Roy's still really popular. It also helps that FE6 looks to be the game IS would remake first (if they do more remakes) specifically because they want to properly introduce him to people outside of Japan. And if they make that all-star game Narihiro keeps mentioning, $5 says Marth, Roy, and Ike would headline it.




@Pieman: My brother always complains about Falcon's jaw in Brawl being smaller and brighter or something compared to the GX model. Something about him looking less grizzled, I don't remember. I only really notice the smaller emblem on his helmet. The scarf is kinda weird because Blood Falcon's the one who has it pulled out of his jacket, but I like it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Toise explains it well, but the point is that those two have it while the rest don't, but the rest of the cast (save Wolf) has that theme as well. So, naturally, there should be a connection. It makes sense.

Here's the thing however: In the simplest form, almost every theory can be around as logical as another one. Heck, I could make one up. Watch.

When Sakurai was making the roster, he went on youtube to make some victory themes. He forgot wolf but accidently added in Mewtwo's and Roy's which were going to be Marth's and Lucario's, but he named them in the files as Mewtwo's and Roy's since he was out drunk having a party. When asked If he should remove the files, Sakurai went "Nah, those victory themes are really hot" And when brawl was gold, the blank files stuck in there with the typo.


Now, of course this isn't what happened, but this is when you bring theories to the simplest form.

Here's the point:
Mewtwo and Roy could have gotten far in development, or they couldn't have - Possible they will be in Smash 4? The series is Static. We have no way to tell for sure.

Possible Characters for Smash 4? Yes. Shoe-In? No. Theories are starting to annoy me and want me to stab them in the throat? Yes.

At the moment, I'm just waiting for Christmas so I can play most of the new installments various franchises so it's kind of hard to care too much about SSB4. I'm also starting to think about Zelda Wii more since Miyamoto and Anouma haven't shut up about it for like the past two weeks. Man, it kind of weirds me out that another Smash game probably won't be released for another 5 years and yet a lot of us here are still enthusiatic about it. O_o;

Oh, which ones? I'm mostly just excited for Golden Sun: DS And catching up on some games on my to-do list. May get the original Mother 3/Mother 1/Earthbound cartridges just for collector value but meh.

I'm really enthusiastic about it because I can easily think up so much that could happen, but to be personally honest, I know my two favorite characters aren't on the top of the priority list (Claus and a character to rep Square Enix) But I'm more on Soundtrack/Stages/Online/How It's going to play since Lucas will obviously stay.

 

[viperGTS]

I'm hoping for Louie from the pikmin universe. And what about names for the next game?
SSBF-Fray
SSBE-?

 

[Pieman0920]

Louie doesn't make much sense. Pikmin isn't that big of a series right now (heck, its technically pretty lucky to have a character really) and Louie would almost have to be a clone of Olimar. As for the title of the game, I kind of like Frenzy, but eh.

Anyways,in regards to Captain Falcon, I messed up when I said that his scarf was out in Melee (wait, I didn't say that...but I meant it)....seems I mistook a picture of Brawl Falcon on Temple for Melee Falcon on Temple. Whatever the case, the scarf being out is really not a big deal, though it is curious, since as Toise said, Blood Falcon's the one who has it out (at least in GX. I can't recall if he had it out in X, and I can't find a picture of him from that game) In any case, the whole thing is trivial, and it wouldn't even be Rick Wheeler, since that guy doesn't have a scarf in the first place. (Which Falcon still has, even if it isn't out)

 

[Yink]

Oh, which ones? I'm mostly just excited for Golden Sun: DS And catching up on some games on my to-do list. May get the original Mother 3/Mother 1/Earthbound cartridges just for collector value but meh.

I'm really enthusiastic about it because I can easily think up so much that could happen, but to be personally honest, I know my two favorite characters aren't on the top of the priority list (Claus and a character to rep Square Enix) But I'm more on Soundtrack/Stages/Online/How It's going to play since Lucas will obviously stay.

I actually own MOTHER 1-3. Including an unopened copy of MOTHER 2.

I just realized, it would be so funny if they put Paula or Kumatora in the next SSB (though we know that won't happen). Would they have the same moves as Ness and Lucas, considering those two stole all their moves from them? ...(except Flash, Ness really does have that but it's PSI Flash).

And Claus...really?

Spoiler

Which version?

Who knows what will happen.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

And Claus...really?

Spoiler

Which version?

Spoiler

Mostly everyone thinks that Masked Man will be the version that gets into Smash Bros. Unless you are talking about something entirely different.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I actually own MOTHER 1-3. Including an unopened copy of MOTHER 2.

I just realized, it would be so funny if they put Paula or Kumatora in the next SSB (though we know that won't happen). Would they have the same moves as Ness and Lucas, considering those two stole all their moves from them? ...(except Flash, Ness really does have that but it's PSI Flash).

And Claus...really?

Spoiler

Which version?

Who knows what will happen.

<3 another MOTHER Fan. That's really cool; I'm still thinking myself

Spoiler

Claus (Masked Man form) and Pokey seem to be the only two logical canidates for a new mother character/the series in general. Personally, It's more on the fact that the series is close to the bottom when it comes to installed series in Smash (Starfox, Mario, Mother, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Etc) with new characters

That's why I consider it not that likeable. Which one over the other is however questionable...If we get one of the two. Neither of the two are really at the bottom or extremely unlikely (Claus and a Square Enix rep, preferably Final Fantasy) But on the contrary to that, not as many favors hold up for them as other characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just realized, it would be so funny if they put Paula or Kumatora in the next SSB (though we know that won't happen). Would they have the same moves as Ness and Lucas, considering those two stole all their moves from them? ...(except Flash, Ness really does have that but it's PSI Flash).
.

I wouldn't count out Paula and Kumatora just yet. Think about it, if Wolf happened, they could very well happen. I can't say for certain for Paula, but if you gave Kumatora her PK Ground move as one of her specials (Crimson Tiger anyone?), she would automatically play differently from Ness and Lucas.

Nonetheless, I would be happy if Paula and Kumatora were alt. characters (something that needs to be in next game), with Masked Boy (I think Otoko can mean Man or Boy, at least Male) as a third MOTHER character. Personally, I can't see Pokey working all that much. He seems unwieldy to me when I visualize him.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I wouldn't count out Paula and Kumatora just yet. Think about it, if Wolf happened, they could very well happen. I can't say for certain for Paula, but if you gave Kumatora her PK Ground move as one of her specials (Crimson Tiger anyone?), she would automatically play differently from Ness and Lucas.

Nonetheless, I would be happy if Paula and Kumatora were alt. characters (something that needs to be in next game), with Masked Boy (I think Otoko can mean Man or Boy, at least Male) as a third MOTHER character. Personally, I can't see Pokey working all that much. He seems unwieldy to me when I visualize him.

But the thing is: Wolf and Krystal had as much validity to there series as new characters as Pokey and Claus do now to Mother. Paula, Kumatora, and the rest of the party members are about as valid as suggesting Leon or Peppy to Starfox.

Regardless, for the other party members, If Alt Characters does actually happen that could work. Ninten needs an Alt, Giygas needs to appear in some way, and we need more ways for the party members to appear.

 

[Plummn]

Mid-air grabs and throws, better online support, and more characters.

 

[Yink]

Spoiler

Mostly everyone thinks that Masked Man will be the version that gets into Smash Bros. Unless you are talking about something entirely different.

No no, that's who I was thinking of. I just was wondering if it would be the

Spoiler

UNMasked

or not.

<3 another MOTHER Fan. That's really cool; I'm still thinking myself

Spoiler

Claus (Masked Man form) and Pokey seem to be the only two logical canidates for a new mother character/the series in general.

Personally, It's more on the fact that the series is close to the bottom when it comes to installed series in Smash (Starfox, Mario, Mother, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Etc) with new characters

I'm a hardcore fan.

I agree with you. MOTHER has been inactive itself for years...and they really aren't planning on making another one, though they should. (I'm not counting MOTHER 4 because it's not an official game). It'll probably go Mario > Zelda ... > Starfox > F- Zero > MOTHER > (whatever else)

I wouldn't count out Paula and Kumatora just yet. Think about it, if Wolf happened, they could very well happen. I can't say for certain for Paula, but if you gave Kumatora her PK Ground move as one of her specials (Crimson Tiger anyone?), she would automatically play differently from Ness and Lucas.

Nonetheless, I would be happy if Paula and Kumatora were alt. characters (something that needs to be in next game), with Masked Boy (I think Otoko can mean Man or Boy, at least Male) as a third MOTHER character. Personally, I can't see Pokey working all that much. He seems unwieldy to me when I visualize him.

I want to agree but that's the thing, PK Ground doesn't seem like it could be a Special move very easily. Though you're right it could be as well as some other moves. Kumatora could work. Paula is kind of on the short end of the stick though so I can see if she doesn't get put in:

Paula's Offensive PSI: > PSI Fire, Freeze, Thunder
Paula's Defensive PSI: > PSI Sheild, Defense Up, Offense Up
Paula's Restoring/Healing PSI: > PSI Magnet

Kumatora however:

Kuma's Offensive PSI: PK Starstorm, Fire, Freeze, Thunder Ground
Kuma's Defensive/Assist PSI: Hypnosis, Paralysis, Brainshock, Offense Down, Defense Down
Kuma's Restoring/Healing PSI: Lifeup, Healing, PSI Magnet

BOLD = Moves that could be usable.

So after that long list, I'd say I believe more in Kumatora being in it, but not Paula.

 

[Big-Cat]

I want to agree but that's the thing, PK Ground doesn't seem like it could be a Special move very easily. Though you're right it could be as well as some other moves. Kumatora could work. Paula is kind of on the short end of the stick though so I can see if she doesn't get put in:

Actually, it's not to hard. Back when Brawl was in development, I made a moveset for Kumatora and PK Ground was something along the lines of a midranged ground attack. However, Crimson Viper of SF4 (hence Crimson Tiger) gave me the idea for a different version of PK Ground. This new idea is that PK Ground is chargeable, but this is not for power, but for the distance it travels. Without charging, PK Ground would be a small shockwave or something at point blank range that raises the opponent in the air. The more you charge it, the farther it goes. If implemented right, it can be a great camper counter and you can time and distance yourself where you can hit your opponent with it just as they land.

 

[Yink]

Actually, it's not to hard. Back when Brawl was in development, I made a moveset for Kumatora and PK Ground was something along the lines of a midranged ground attack. However, Crimson Viper of SF4 (hence Crimson Tiger) gave me the idea for a different version of PK Ground. This new idea is that PK Ground is chargeable, but this is not for power, but for the distance it travels. Without charging, PK Ground would be a small shockwave or something at point blank range that raises the opponent in the air. The more you charge it, the farther it goes. If implemented right, it can be a great camper counter and you can time and distance yourself where you can hit your opponent with it just as they land.

I really like your idea but lets hope people would give her some other moves too, maybe the ones I highlighted with bold.

Charging PK Ground would be a fun move. Nice idea.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm a hardcore fan.

I agree with you. MOTHER has been inactive itself for years...and they really aren't planning on making another one, though they should. (I'm not counting MOTHER 4 because it's not an official game). It'll probably go Mario > Zelda ... > Starfox > F- Zero > MOTHER > (whatever else)

Awesome! Now all we need is someone who likes Paper Ma...*Looks at Pieman* Nevermind.

As for installed franchises, they're the original 10 franchises in Smash Bros + Fire Emblem, and Wario is considered part of that too. I would have to say it goes:

High Tier: (Not listing jody on F-Zero because she probably won't happen)
Metroid (Ridley)
F-Zero (Goroh, Black Shadow)
DK (Dixie, K. Rool)

Mid Tier:
Wario (Captain Syrup, Mona) - This may go under questionable. Undecided.
Mother (Masked Man/Boy, Pokey)
Starfox (Krystal)

Questionable (Lower) Tier:
Mario (Bowser Jr, Toad)
Zelda (Tingle? Toon Zelda? New Character? Meh.)
Yoshi (Kamek, Baby Bros?)
Wario may also fall under here

Static Tier (Mother can possibly fall under this for having changing protaginists):
Pokemon
Fire Emblem
Mother may also fall under here

Complete unless it gets a new reoccuring character Tier :
Kirby

So, It depends. The two are certainly possible, but with it being one of the smaller series of all of those in there, It's not quite in It's favor. At least, not yet. Only time will tell, but even If Masked Man/A Square Enix character don't make there appearances, I still have my main Lucas. I'm more questioned on other things with Smash 4, I just happen to discuss character's a lot because It's thrown like mad around here.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Wario (Captain Syrup, Mona)

Starfox (Krystal)

Questionable:
Mario (Bowser Jr, Toad)

I honestly think that Wario and Starfox don't really deserve another rep, while Mario does.


EDIT: Holy 666th post, Batman!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I honestly think that Wario and Starfox don't really deserve another rep, while Mario does.

Knew this would cause some "In General" Debate but going on:

Why Mario? I think Toise, Fatmanonice, and I are probably the only ones who look in this thread at how much weight the character holds instead of "HEY. MY SERIES SELLS MORE THAN YOUR SERIES; I GET MORE CHARACTERS BEACH"

Anyways: I put Toad/Bowser Jr in the questionable tier because there importance to the series as a whole is debateable. Much similar to Kamek and the random Zelda characters.

Krystal is the last important character to Starfox to be added. Important and stands out, being the last hugely recognizeable character mainly of recently to the series? Yes. Possibly Unique? Yes...Of course on the contrary, that doesn't really get her in. Fan-Demand? Yes. What am I missing here that makes Starfox not that worthy of It's last important character?

Syrup is important to Land and Mona is important to Ware. I however agree it goes more under the questionable tier since It's in a sorta similar case as Mario and Yoshi. Not completely but whatever.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Why Mario? I think Toise, Fatmanonice, and I are probably the only ones who look in this thread at how much weight the character holds instead of "HEY. MY SERIES SELLS MORE THAN YOUR SERIES; I GET MORE CHARACTERS BEACH"

Okay, before I say anything else and make myself look like an idiot: what do you mean by, "How much weight a character holds"?

 

[Big-Cat]

I really like your idea but lets hope people would give her some other moves too, maybe the ones I highlighted with bold.

Charging PK Ground would be a fun move. Nice idea.

Let's see

B: PK Brainshock:
Close range punch filled with PSI that has significant knockback and hitstun. However, this move is anything but safe if blocked or whiffed. Essentially, it's like a PK Falcon Punch.

Side B: PK Paralysis
In a sense, this is kind of like Zamus' side B in regards to range, but this attack acts differently. The move acts like Mewtwo's Disable.

Up B: PK Fire
Shoots a PK Fire Bolt downward and uses the recoil as her recovery.

How's that?

Why Mario? I think Toise, Fatmanonice, and I are probably the only ones who look in this thread at how much weight the character holds instead of "HEY. MY SERIES SELLS MORE THAN YOUR SERIES; I GET MORE CHARACTERS BEACH"

Strictly that? Yes. I look more at how an interesting a character would be, the popularity of the characters, and a couple of other factors, but sales is not one of them.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay, before I say anything else and make myself look like an idiot: what do you mean by, "How much weight a character holds"?

It means by how much weight a character holds to a certain series. When you bring the series down to It's most simple form, you have to look at how the character compares to the characters already in the series. You have to also look at how relevant the character is to the series. For example, while Bowser Jr and Toad are recognizable, they don't have many roles as opposed to the "Main" Characters.

For example, Krystal holds similar weight into her importance as Falco and Wolf do.

Toad and Bowser Jr however stand in debateable. They are only debatably important - Sakurai may see this as the same and add one of them. So they're still around mid tier, It's just that there's are a more fishy topic.

And really, I don't even see why people are so bleh about the thought of Wario getting another character. They're unique like how DK's side characters are, unlike how some of Yoshi's villians tie into Mario quite a bit.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^Ah. I see. Usually, I think that sales=importance and importance=deserved number of reps. I do think that when a series has a character that is particularly interesting, then that character deserves to get in. That's my thoughts.

 

[Big-Cat]

^Ah. I see. Usually, I think that sales=importance and importance=deserved number of reps. I do think that when a series has a character that is particularly interesting, then that character deserves to get in. That's my thoughts.

That's more or less how I see things. I don't look at the series the character is from, I look at the character itself.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

^Ah. I see. Usually, I think that sales=importance and importance=deserved number of reps. I do think that when a series has a character that is particularly interesting, then that character deserves to get in. That's my thoughts.

Sales can apply to a certain extent. I personally think that Sales = Which one gets in first (Most of the time)

For instance, compare these two:
1:
Mother: Lucas, Ness, Masked Man, Pokey
Mario: Luigi, Mario
Or
2:
Mario: Luigi, Mario, Bowser, Peach
Mother: Lucas, Ness

Yeah: I think you can see which one is the more logical one. However sometimes you end up in cases like these:
Mother: Lucas, Ness
Metroid: Samus

But that's more about the character itself. Lucas is a far easier to program character than Ridley.

Of course, sometimes there might be a hidden reason to certain things, like why exactly is Goroh an Assist Trophy? We don't know, but what we know is all the important characters to each installed series, so It's more on debates on who deserves to get in due to the series itself and whatnot.

/My 2c

edit: Besides, who said there had to be a cap on how many characters a series gets? Starfox has almost as many characters as Mario, LoZ, and Pokemon in Brawl. Point proven.

 

[Yink]

Let's see

B: PK Brainshock:
Close range punch filled with PSI that has significant knockback and hitstun. However, this move is anything but safe if blocked or whiffed. Essentially, it's like a PK Falcon Punch.

Side B: PK Paralysis
In a sense, this is kind of like Zamus' side B in regards to range, but this attack acts differently. The move acts like Mewtwo's Disable.

Up B: PK Fire
Shoots a PK Fire Bolt downward and uses the recoil as her recovery.

How's that?

Sounds fine to me, what about Down B? Magnet probably.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sounds fine to me, what about Down B? Magnet probably.

Down B is the PK Ground I described.

In regards to her playstyle, I see her using her PK Ground as a vital aspect to her game with her starting a number of combos with it. Aside from that, her Side and Up B could possibly be quick escape maneuvers with possibly her B as a finisher. Overall, I see her as a mid range fighter. She has long ranged stuff when necessary and some close ranged stuff as well.