[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mario the Jumpman]

n88, have you considered using "ORs?"

Anyway, your roster sounds good, but why no AC rep?

 

[n88]

@Jumpman

Well, when you use "or" you tend to get less criticism, or so it seems to me. A lot of people just plug in whichever character they prefer and just go with that. Leaving a character out tends to get more of a response>Better discussion.

 

[Pieman0920]

It's a pro for her as oppossed to other F-Zero drivers If you were to add a fourth one; Unsure about the other F-Zero's (Wasn't 64 basically grand prix?)

You're right about 64 just being a grand prix, and its true that her small role was still a large step up from other racers, but that doesn't really change the fact int he end that she's really not worth it all to much from a Smash standpoint, and it seems more like trying to give F-Zero a 4th character, rather than considering the validity of Jody being in a game with all these other famous Nintendo characters.

We know It probably won't surpass Isaac's unless it sells freakishly well. Felix...I don't quite know.

Well for one, I think that most of Isaac's popularity, in terms of requests of getting into Smash is based around the game itself and his power set, rather than say his personality, since that is fairly lacking. To that end there's no real problem with adding in the GS3 character because he'll likely have the same powers Isaac has.....though he'll probably be lacking in personality too....

In any case, since Nintendo seems to be really backing GS3 (It was actually in their main press conference) I think its very possible that the GS3 character could gain more populairty.

Because Felix stands out enough like Lucas, but Felix could also be an alt. I suppose since we don't really know enough about the new guy (Asides from the fact he looks like another ninten case) So It's probably better to get back to this once we both have GS3.

Agreed. (Though I still don't like you saying the new guy is like Ninten when he's the more recent character)

It'd only be truly awkward If there was no stage for the older GS's.

Well that would be weird indeed, I would think that even if GS got two characters, that it would still only get one stage at this time.

@ScoobyCafe

They could easily be alts. The hair is completely different, and the desin of ther armor is different to, so there's no mistaking them in terms of apperance, but its still they could easily be made alts since they are still quite simmilar.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hey Koopa, most Geno fanboys lack brain cells!

Careful what you say or I will eat your pets...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It seems like the more I see character suggestions, the less I see characters such as:

• Andy (Advance Wars)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Lip (Puzzle League)
• Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo)

So I'd like some opinions, how likely do you think their inclusions are and would you mind their inclusions?

Andy - I actually really do like AW, but the AT Seems to beg to differ with me all over...Why wasn't Andy just the AT Instead? This could however work uniquely.
Ray - I played custom robo once and remember god awful loading times...That's about it. I'm rather indifferent on him.
Lip - Read: Ray, except I haven't played her game at all...All I know is It's a puzzle game, but with retro's, you never know.
Chibi-Robo - I have two friends who really want Chibi Anyways, I remember the game being similar to AC In It's "Less fighting" Aspect, but this would be at least a funny AT.

Another thing I'd like to know is where this fascination with Chocobo and Slime came from; I don't think I've ever seen the two together as one. It sounds to me some of you are trying to get away with a two-for-one type of deal, and I'm not sure how that'd work. If there's a game of the two together like Diddy/Dixie or Nana/Popo, then I'm all for it, but if not... well, how about either Chocobo or Slime for SSB4?

This idea came from Toise and got popular around the thread due to him. Anyways; It's because Square Enix is a very hard company to judge the "True" Mascot, but Chocobo is one of the few reoccuring and plot characters in FF, and same goes to the slime and DQ. DQ And FF Are Square Enix's biggest franchises (Of course, mainly in japan) And Square created FF While Enix created DQ, making a perfect compromise.

Thus; It's more about giving DQ Some love as It's one of the more popular series in japan, and about the company in general. You could however still go with just picking a FF Rep and calling it a day. Black Mage or Chocobo could work very well since they at least have some ties with nintendo that aren't fan cameo's, unlike Cloud.

What do people think about.....THIS ROSTER?

shhhh my roster first; at least until toise, smashchu, arc, and FMOI Get online.

But as for yours; An also equally plausible list, asides from Rosalina (In SMG She helps you...Uh...Big whoop?), and Sakurai apparently found Mach Rider "Not as fitting"

While I don't mind geno, on the discussion back on square reps, If there were to only be one, a FF One seems more logical first.

Granted, I don't really see 50-60 characters happening in Smash 4 (Maybe smash 5, 6, etc) but most characters are still pretty plausible for a future smash (Tho to be fair both of us have a freakish ammount of shared characters)

 

[DekuBoy]

n88, have you considered using "ORs?"

Anyway, your roster sounds good, but why no AC rep?

Well Mario, there was a mini-war over AC reps so the subject is a little shaky.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina

Even though I could picture a rather sick moveset for Rosalina, with lumas and star bits, I'd like to know why Rosalina and not someone else. I wouldn't mind her at all, mind you, just would like to know why her and not, say, Toad.

Yoshi's Island
Yoshi

Kamek? Baby Bros.?

WarioLand/Ware
Wario

No Mona?

Famicom/Retro
Pit
Ice Climbers
ROB
Mach Rider

Replace Mach Rider with Takamaru. =)

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Roy

Still don't know about Roy. I like him, but if we see a new FE character, chances are I'd prefer him/her instead of Roy.

Characters: 58
Spots on the Character Select Screen: 53 (54 with random)

An okay list. I made a post prior this one concerning characters that seem to be fleeting from character suggestions lately. Since they aren't on your list, what are your opinions on them?

@Pieman

Okay, but I personally think it'd make more sense that the new guy was made an alternate costume instead of Felix, since the resemblance is much more, I dunno, conspicuous. =/

 

[n88]

@thirdkoopa

Ignore Rosalina, that's my bias speaking. (Although I do believe she has potential to become important, especially with Galaxy 2 on the horizon). Geno seems like a more logical Square rep than the vast majority of others, because he's more wanted than others. I've seen all this stuff about Choco/Slime, but it seems ridiculous to me to pair two characters who are (So far as I know) unrelated, when there's a fairly popular character that already exists.

EDIT: @Scooby

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lip or Ray make it in. Lip almost made it onto that roster. Chibi-Robo and Andy, less so. But that's just gut instinct, nothing to back it up.

EDIT2:

Also, 50-60 characters isn't impossible for SSB4. Brawl added 17 new characters to the mix.

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ Pieman and Scoobycafe: Technically, Diddy had a Dixie ALT in Brawl based on the colorations so, yeah, it could be done despite the obvious physical differences between the two.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You're right about 64 just being a grand prix, and its true that her small role was still a large step up from other racers, but that doesn't really change the fact int he end that she's really not worth it all to much from a Smash standpoint, and it seems more like trying to give F-Zero a 4th character, rather than considering the validity of Jody being in a game with all these other famous Nintendo characters.

I really don't think you can invalid jody just for being less popular. It may be a bit awkward as oppossed to other females; But I have only touched two F-Zero games to date of the 5 (Well, and the arcade game)

To that end there's no real problem with adding in the GS3 character

It's not that; It's that If you were to add the new GS3 character AND Isaac.

Agreed. (Though I still don't like you saying the new guy is like Ninten when he's the more recent character)

It's the ninten because chances are (From what we know currently) Isaac will probably get in over whatever this new guy is named. He's the new ninten as in; People would want him mainly for the fact he'd rep another part of GS, when in reality, he's freakishly similar.

Or technically Isaac could be the new ninten, but it truely depends on what happens (Even tho, Isaac and Felix had two game appearences with a possible third as oppossed to new guy having 1)

Well that would be weird indeed, I would think that even if GS got two characters, that it would still only get one stage at this time.

Chances are that's what will happen (It getting one stage)

Careful what you say or I will eat your pets...

...And no comments on the image. Hi Fatman.

 

[Pieman0920]

@Fatman

Well that's not really what I mean by as alt, though I admit I'm thinking of a alternate model of sorts, which is only a hypothetical idea for Smash 4. I guess having different colors that match up to another character could be seen as an alt in a certain light, but by how I count it, I wouldn't really consider Diddy's Dixie colors as a alt, but rather just colors. (I also don't believe Mario's Wario colors were an alt or anything either)

 

[Fatmanonice]

@Fatman

Well that's not really what I mean by as alt, though I admit I'm thinking of a alternate model of sorts, which is only a hypothetical idea for Smash 4. I guess having different colors that match up to another character could be seen as an alt in a certain light, but by how I count it, I wouldn't really consider Diddy's Dixie colors as a alt, but rather just colors. (I also don't believe Mario's Wario colors were an alt or anything either)

Well, given what we have right now, that's essentially what an ALT is but I understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're suggesting ALTs that are more than just color changes and actually add or take away things from the character model kind of like the Cloud ALTs that hackers have made for Ike, right?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@thirdkoopa

Ignore Rosalina, that's my bias speaking. (Although I do believe she has potential to become important, especially with Galaxy 2 on the horizon). Geno seems like a more logical Square rep than the vast majority of others, because he's more wanted than others. I've seen all this stuff about Choco/Slime, but it seems ridiculous to me to pair two characters who are (So far as I know) unrelated, when there's a fairly popular character that already exists.

If we're going to be logical with square reps and not mention ideas that haven't hit the horizon into popularity (...Yet.)...

Final Fantasy is Square's "Main" Franchise, like how Sonic is to Sega, or Megaman to capcom, just to name off two. If they wanted to go by something that reps the company well, wouldn't it be more logical to go with something like, Black Mage or the Chocobo (Especially given the ridiculous apparent japan popularity series, mainly of FF In general)?

Of course, geno still could possibly be thrown in on his fan request. I mean, as pointed out, Snake isn't the most logical Konami rep, so you never know. I still applaud you for putting a Square rep on there anyways.

 

[SmashChu]

There's no guarantee that they will be loyal to the product. Like I mentioned earlier, the loyal players may hate the sequel and play the original instead which is what we've got going on right now.

No, that's why they are loyal. Nintendo would have to do something to screw consumers, and they haven't done that yet (or ever will. DLC is one way to screw consumers).

There was no mass exodus to Melee as people think. Some people play Melee, but a lot more moved to Brawl and it is a larger focus. These players will keep buying the game, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

I suppose my model was extreme. In a fighting game which is like the world, it's eat or get eaten. However, players act like a society just as you mentioned it. The players help each other out by giving tips, advice on matchups, teaching BnB combos, and more to each other.

Not it's not. Smash is the best selling fighting game. Your model is still wrong.

Are you telling me that 3D fighters are inherently easier than 2D fighters? Yes, 3D fighters are more button mashing friendly, but 3D and 2D fighters require different skills. The same can be said for Smash and Tekken. Both control very differently from each and require different skills.

And?

No, you can have a hard game with easy controls. Look at the Mario games. A fair number of them are rather hard, but the controls are extremely simple.

1. Mario is easy to control (you want fighting games to be harder to control, as this is what other fighting games have become)
2. Early levels are easy as sin. Smash has higher difficulty settings as well.

Also, from what I've heard, recoveries have already been made much easier with stuff like larger grab ranges and tether grabs. What are you proposing they do now? Have Shy Guys fly you back to the stage?

Players who have never played a Smash Bros game don't know what to do when they fall off the ledge. They end up just dieing when most players could easily recover. They have a hard time still learning the game on the ground. When they are off the stage, it is a different story. My idea was to create an auto-recover feature where weaker players would learn the game a lot smoother and not have to learn how to recover right off the bat.

Sales is the number one way to make profits, but you are forgetting another method of gaining profits: Tournaments. Think about. Nintendo can sponsor tournaments throughout the country like Upperdeck did with Yu-Gi-Oh!. There would get a cut of the profits from the tournament fees. In return, after every three months or so, Nintendo provides prizes like a free game or even an advanced release or something even better.

[/QUOTE]

You have to be kidding me.

You just agreed that sales are the number 1 way video game companies make money. So why should they make other areas priority over that? It makes no sense. Nintendo should not sacrifice sales when they could just as easily do a tournament. Nintendo should focus on increasing sales.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I don't like the idea of games having auto-anything features. There was an article on this a while back in GameInformer. It was put into. being put into a new mario game (I can;t recall fi it has happned yet, someone will verify) and many fans were upset by it.

Games playing themselves defeats the purpose of playing, I understand you want it put in as a fature to help new players learn the mechanics, but whats stopping them from completely ignoring ever needing to recover?

@N88 Roster
No to:
Krystal-Biased hate

Awesome Props for:
Mach Rider
Toon Zelda/Tetra

Could Use:
Andy

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Andy - I actually really do like AW, but the AT Seems to beg to differ with me all over...Why wasn't Andy just the AT Instead? This could however work uniquely.
Ray - I played custom robo once and remember god awful loading times...That's about it. I'm rather indifferent on him.
Lip - Read: Ray, except I haven't played her game at all...All I know is It's a puzzle game, but with retro's, you never know.
Chibi-Robo - I have two friends who really want Chibi Anyways, I remember the game being similar to AC In It's "Less fighting" Aspect, but this would be at least a funny AT.

Andy: Andy as an assist trophy? I would think his potential as a fighter would be far more interesting. Have you played IaMP and Blazblue before? Imagine him having stationary units on the field moving only when Andy uses specials, like a mix between Carl and his puppet and Alice and her puppets. Units have HP, so when they break down, he repairs them or summons new units.

Ray: Ray I feel is a rather promising character that many would like. I mean, imagine playing with this guy, air-dashing and shooting pods. He would be interesting to see.

Lip: It's just odd to me that, with the amount of games and references Smash Bros. makes to those games, there's yet to be a puzzle league fighter. It would've been Dr. Mario, but they made him a Mario character. I think Panel de Pon/Puzzle League (and the Wars series) is one of those series that'll likely have a character in SSB4.

Chibi-Robo: The game is interesting and there is some fighting in the game later on--not much, but it's there. Also, the incredibly stupid reason AC doesn't have a fighter is because Sakurai can't see how they'd fight That said, it wouldn't be difficult to imagine Chibi-Robo fighting.

Thus; It's more about giving DQ Some love as It's one of the more popular series in japan, and about the company in general. You could however still go with just picking a FF Rep and calling it a day. Black Mage or Chocobo could work very well since they at least have some ties with nintendo that aren't fan cameo's, unlike Cloud.

DQ could have assist trophies and the like if it really needs some acknowledgment. I pretty much agree with everything else you said, though.

EDIT: @Scooby

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lip or Ray make it in. Lip almost made it onto that roster. Chibi-Robo and Andy, less so. But that's just gut instinct, nothing to back it up.

Chibi-Robo I guess I could understand, but Andy? I really can't comprehend why people--not just here, doubt the possibility of having a Wars character, namely Andy. He's become the face of a series that spanned 12 games so far. It's confusing.

@Shino

That feature is in NSMB Wii, and yeah, it's pretty upsetting to me, personally. Really hope that isn't implemented in Nintendo games I actually still care about. If it does, then I'm sorry, but I won't be on board for that at all.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Andy: Andy as an assist trophy? I would think his potential as a fighter would be far more interesting. Have you played IaMP and Blazblue before? Imagine him having stationary units on the field moving only when Andy uses specials, like a mix between Carl and his puppet and Alice and her puppets. Units have HP, so when they break down, he repairs them or summons new units.

I'm saying that It's just odd seeing infaltaries picked as an AT Over him (Oh I wonder the excuse this time), however Advance Wars does at least need a stage. A measely AT Isn't gonna do it next time around.

Chibi-Robo: The game is interesting and there is some fighting in the game later on--not much, but it's there. Also, the incredibly stupid reason AC doesn't have a fighter is because Sakurai can't see how they'd fight That said, it wouldn't be difficult to imagine Chibi-Robo fighting.

Of course, regardless of stupid, him and the devs make the rules...Chibi however at least deserves AT Status next time around (Especially since hopefully we'll get more new franchises)

I brought a lot of quick discussion up. Anyways from the stage discussion group: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Qs8aVKHXI - One song that does need to be in if Sin and Punishment is represented somehow.

edit: fixed url

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I'm saying that It's just odd seeing infaltaries picked as an AT Over him (Oh I wonder the excuse this time), however Advance Wars does at least need a stage. A measely AT Isn't gonna do it next time around.

I actually didn't mind that too much. He'd probably send out infantry units anyway, much like how that AT works as is. But yeah, how about Andy as a playable character? Since, you know, an AT won't do next time.

Of course, regardless of stupid, him and the devs make the rules...Chibi however at least deserves AT Status next time around (Especially since hopefully we'll get more new franchises)

I know, I just find it blatantly hypocritical how he'd say a AC character isn't plausible for fighting, yet we see freaking R.O.B as a playable character. It's a lame excuse.

**** I brought a lot of quick discussion up. Anyways from the stage discussion group: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYEl46Q4tnw - One song that does need to be in if Sin and Punishment is represented somehow.

Nice, but what does that song have to do with S&P? lol

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I actually didn't mind that too much. He'd probably send out infantry units anyway, much like how that AT works as is. But yeah, how about Andy as a playable character? Since, you know, an AT won't do next time.

Hmm, possibly. AW Is a big enough series now to at least warrent a stage, and It's still the longest running series of nintendo's without even a stage.

As for him as a character; It just comes into question considering he wasn't the AT Unlike others last time, but considering he doesn't actually fight, I could see him as kinda similar to pikmin & olimar.

Nice, but what does that song have to do with S&P? lol

Wrong song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Qs8aVKHXI
THERE We go. I'll fix that in the other post.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I know, I just find it blatantly hypocritical how he'd say a AC character isn't plausible for fighting, yet we see freaking R.O.B as a playable character. It's a lame excuse.

Because, as it's been said many times before, Animal Crossing is a game that is meant to be peaceful, and Sakurai acknowledges this. R.O.B. has no such restrictions, he (it) was a blank slate. It's not an excuse, it's being mindful of the source material.

 

[Pieman0920]

My idea for Andy is sort of like my idea for Porkey which itself is sort of like a rip off of Tron Bonne from MvC2. Basically have Andy fight in a mech (a modified Neo-Tank in this case) Sure its not something he's really done, but he's a mechanic so its plausible.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I can see that working, but I also would like to ee him as a sort of summoner. Various specials and smashes send out units from the games to attack the unit, while the tilts and aerials are done with the mech itself.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Wrong song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Qs8aVKHXI
THERE We go. I'll fix that in the other post.

Insanely badass.

Would also like to see some original S&P music, which strangely wasn't in SSBB.

Because, as it's been said many times before, Animal Crossing is a game that is meant to be peaceful, and Sakurai acknowledges this. R.O.B. has no such restrictions, he (it) was a blank slate. It's not an excuse, it's being mindful of the source material.

It is an excuse. Regardless of source material, if he wanted to make Tom Nook fight Ridley, there's nothing preventing him from doing so--nothing but himself.

If you limit yourself with self-limiting thoughts, you’ll never be able to break past what you deem impossible, thus destroying the opportunity for others to experience Smash Bros. through him on different levels, from different angles and in different ways. He needs to get past his perceived limitations and realize that he CAN think big; there's no written law that says X character can't fight in his Y game. It's bull.

My idea for Andy is sort of like my idea for Porkey which itself is sort of like a rip off of Tron Bonne from MvC2. Basically have Andy fight in a mech (a modified Neo-Tank in this case) Sure its not something he's really done, but he's a mechanic so its plausible.

I actually would love to see something like this for Jill. That'd be awesome.

What do you think of my idea for Andy? He primarily uses his wrenches for attacking, and his specials would essentially be like puppets.

 

[flyinfilipino]

It is an excuse. Regardless of source material, if he wanted to make Tom Nook fight Ridley, there's nothing preventing him from doing so--nothing but himself.

If you limit yourself with self-limiting thoughts, you’ll never be able to break past what you deem impossible, thus destroying the opportunity for others to experience Smash Bros. through him on different levels, from different angles and in different ways. He needs to get past his perceived limitations and realize that he CAN think big; there's no written law that says X character can't fight in his Y game. It's bull.

Of course it's not physically impossible to put an Animal Crossing character in the game and pit it against Ridley, but the nature of the source material itself that doesn't lend itself well to fighting. It's like putting a nun in fighting game like Tekken. Sakurai's just respecting that, it's not that he's incapable of doing it. It is possible that he could change his mind, but people just need to understand why he did it in the first place.

 

[Pieman0920]

I actually would love to see something like this for Jill. That'd be awesome.

What do you think of my idea for Andy? He primarily uses his wrenches for attacking, and his specials would essentially be like puppets.

I think its a bit too complicated for Smash. I guess if he had one unit to manipulate it could possibly work, but what's the most difficult thing is what exactly the unit are in comparison to the CO. What I mean by that is that it would make sense for Andy to use the units sort of like puppets if they were smaller than and more cartoony, but that itself clashes with the fact that the units are actually supposed to be full fledged combat vehicles. Essentially your standard tank should be around the size of a Landmaster.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I understand this viewpoint Pie, but focusing on one unit and Andy is undermining the other units just as much. Andy acts as sort of a leader in his games.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not going to bother responding to the majority of your post, SmashChu. I'm going to focus on something that I perceived of you a good while back and this part of your post sums it up.

Players who have never played a Smash Bros game don't know what to do when they fall off the ledge. They end up just dieing when most players could easily recover. They have a hard time still learning the game on the ground. When they are off the stage, it is a different story. My idea was to create an auto-recover feature where weaker players would learn the game a lot smoother and not have to learn how to recover right off the bat.

That is the biggest load of BS I've read on this forum. You're basically advocating that everything should be fair for everybody even when you have two people fighting with skills on the opposite end of the spectrum, and this is all for to make the beginners not feel bad when they lose. No one said Super Smash Bros. had to be fair and square.

If they can't recover, that's their problem. It's not too **** hard to learn. We all went through with it, new players can do it too if they care.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well it doesn't make sense too many on the field at the same time.

Actually, what I think could be done is if the down B was used, the unit could change, and thus change the specials. I had simmilar idea for Paper Mario who's standard attacks would always be a constant, but his specials would be determined by his partner character, which could be changed by use of the down special. (For instance he could have three helpers, one from each Paper Mario game) To that end, Andy could have something like there where he could have a something like a infantry, helicopter, and tank.....or some other combination of units I suppose.

 

[NeverFiniteX]

Is this thread leading towards logical inclusions of characters? If not, I'll pass.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

What I was implying wasn't a stage controlling micromanagement moveset (Like in MYM Hehe). Basically what i was thinking was Foward smash, for example, sends out an infantry which fires a short burts and disapears, and there would be a charge time limiting more than one being sent out (of course they wouldn't be out long, so it woulnd't take away from anything)

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@flyinfilipino
I understand why he did it, I'm just calling it for what it is. I really do hope he has a change of heart by time SSB4 is greenlit for development.

I think its a bit too complicated for Smash. I guess if he had one unit to manipulate it could possibly work, but what's the most difficult thing is what exactly the unit are in comparison to the CO. What I mean by that is that it would make sense for Andy to use the units sort of like puppets if they were smaller than and more cartoony, but that itself clashes with the fact that the units are actually supposed to be full fledged combat vehicles. Essentially your standard tank should be around the size of a Landmaster.

The units would indeed be much smaller than Andy, kinda like how they appear in Brawl. There obviously wouldn't be landmaster size tanks on the field--perhaps for a final smash, but otherwise, no. But about it being complicated, here's how I picture it in more detail.

Up B: Transport Copter
Up B: (While Copter is out) Transport Copter travels to Andy and lifts him into the sky.

Neutral B: Infantry
Neutral B: (While Infantry is out) Infantry will fire from their position.

Over B: Tank
Over B: (While Tank is out) Tank will fire from their position.

Down B: Repair which will fix broken units.

You can only have 6 units on the field, specifically 1 Copter, 2 Tanks, 3 Infantry. Like Pikmin, each have HP, so if they break, you could either A) run over to the unit and repair or B) summon new ones. Not really that complicated, I'd say. =)

 

[Mowrt620]

I'd agree with all 6, easily. Characters have a large fanbase because of one or more of the following (in no particular order):
1. They're mysterious, therefore cool (think Boba Fett)
2. They're totally evil (Bowser/Ridley)
3. They have some sort of twist/struggle inside (Vader, MK, Dedede)
4. They're a hero
5. They're flat-out funny
6. Anything else that you can think of
It just depends on what you're into and what kind of person you are, I guess, when it comes to characters

Did I really see Vader and boba fett.....wow, fail

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Is this thread leading towards logical inclusions of characters? If not, I'll pass.

Depends. Discussion shifts randomly, but most discussion here with characters is usually pretty logical/interesting. And this thread isn't just characters. There's also a nice group for Stage Discussion and one for Gameplay Discussion floating around.

@Pie: I was actually thinking with Paper Mario personally to have Paper Mario use regular attacks while said partner is kinda like an ice climber so they can both attack at the same time; Of course, being more commandable than the usual IC Partner.

@Scooby: Nice moveset, also as for the music, It's odd that not even one S&P Track made it, yet Saki made it on fan request? Bleh. More S&P Love would be nice next game even If saki isn't playable (Or the new guy...*Waits patiently for us to get S&P2)

As for an auto-recover: No. Instead for new players you could just have an option that tells above something possibly good to press, but an auto-recover is taking it too far.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

No, that's why they are loyal. Nintendo would have to do something to screw consumers, and they haven't done that yet (or ever will. DLC is one way to screw consumers).

Players who have never played a Smash Bros game don't know what to do when they fall off the ledge. They end up just dieing when most players could easily recover. They have a hard time still learning the game on the ground. When they are off the stage, it is a different story. My idea was to create an auto-recover feature where weaker players would learn the game a lot smoother and not have to learn how to recover right off the bat.

How about making the B button instantly win the round? If people are THAT uninterested or unable to not learn how to play a game then this is the only way to solve that problem 100%

I swear to god if I hear "NO MAKE THIS GAME CASUAL FRIENDLY **** COMPETITIVE NO MAKE IT COMPETITIVE FRIENDLY **** CASUAL" one more time I think I'm going to rage. You will NEVER get rid of the competitive scene, it will just adapt to that game, as the competitive scene for Brawl has adapted and moved on from Melee, and I know a lot of them still play Melee and/or Smash 64 as well, and the casuals who don't know about the competitive scene will NOT be affected by that in any way at all. Pandering ONLY to Competitive OR Casual games will **** up the game in the end. The balance is needed, both sides of the arguments keep insisting in their favor without considering the other side. This is ********, it's much worse than the "Official Brawl Speculation Thread" back when Brawl was first announced.

 

[SmashChu]

That is the biggest load of BS I've read on this forum. You're basically advocating that everything should be fair for everybody even when you have two people fighting with skills on the opposite end of the spectrum, and this is all for to make the beginners not feel bad when they lose. No one said Super Smash Bros. had to be fair and square.

If they can't recover, that's their problem. It's not too **** hard to learn. We all went through with it, new players can do it too if they care.

Wow. What was that?

The point, which I have made before is that games should be easy to control. It's obvious that some people have trouble with recovering, so this mode would let them do that while they try and learn the game.

You are a Street Fighter player, so you see everything having to be deep and having huge learning curves as that is how the series has become. Street Fighter is long since over the hill thanks to that philosophy and you eat it up. That philosophy has destroyed 2D fighter to the point to where Smash bros waltzes in.

A game has to wow you very early or the player will up and leave it. If the player finds the game too hard, they'll say "forget it," and walk away. The goal of the game is to get the player into the game. The game should not be hard to learn. Why play a game that is to complicated. This is actually why I stay away from Street Fighter (played it, found it too hard, play Tatsunoko vs Capcom instead).

Games should always be trying to expand. Your idea, as your post makes it out, is to say "forget them," and move on. I ask, how is this helpful? Why should we not try to help the weaker player so that they can enjoy the game? Multiplayer games work when they are easy to be able to pick up. Your advocating to not do this, and I can not see why.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@hemightbegiant

Pretty much why I'm not getting into stuff dealing with anything competitive in this thread anymore. Some people here apparently seem to hate competitive players due to their ego or something, and proceed moaning about Smash Bros being used as a contest of skill and 'tourney tards' ruining games and whatnot. Competitive play = BAD, etc., etc.

If it's being ruined, it's because of the whiny *****es complaining about competitive players they have little to no contact with.

@Scooby: Nice moveset, also as for the music, It's odd that not even one S&P Track made it, yet Saki made it on fan request? Bleh. More S&P Love would be nice next game even If saki isn't playable (Or the new guy...*Waits patiently for us to get S&P2)

Seriously, especially considering how amazing some of the tracks are on the S&P OST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CxX8n7NOWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D2JH2rNf7o

So, so good. T^T

 

[darksamus77]

Did I really see Vader and boba fett.....wow, fail

They'd be better third party characters than some I've seen

 

[Fatmanonice]

How about making the B button instantly win the round? If people are THAT uninterested or unable to not learn how to play a game then this is the only way to solve that problem 100%

I swear to god if I hear "NO MAKE THIS GAME CASUAL FRIENDLY **** COMPETITIVE NO MAKE IT COMPETITIVE FRIENDLY **** CASUAL" one more time I think I'm going to rage. You will NEVER get rid of the competitive scene, it will just adapt to that game, as the competitive scene for Brawl has adapted and moved on from Melee, and I know a lot of them still play Melee and/or Smash 64 as well, and the casuals who don't know about the competitive scene will NOT be affected by that in any way at all. Pandering ONLY to Competitive OR Casual games will **** up the game in the end. The balance is needed, both sides of the arguments keep insisting in their favor without considering the other side. This is ********, it's much worse than the "Official Brawl Speculation Thread" back when Brawl was first announced.

This. A thousand times this. I'm mostly annoyed right at the moment because Smashchu keeps talking as if his mother was ***** by competitive players. "Competitive gamers ruin the appeal of the game. Doing anything for them will kill Smash." Ugh... Truth be told, I don't think most competitive players really care about casual players and vice versa so some of the talk that has been going around as if they constantly plot against other is just ridicolous.

 

[Arcadenik]

Smashchu... automatic recoveries??? No way. Everyone who first played Smash had to learn that "up B" usually means recovery. I had to learn that on my own in SSB64. My friend haven't played Smash before so when we were playing together and he is falling, I shout "Press Up B! Press Up B!" and he eventually learned about recovering. Sooner or later, Meta Knight and Pit quickly became some of his favorite characters in the game. He even wanted "a Meta Knight game and a Pit game" even though he didn't know who they are or where they came from.

I understand this viewpoint Pie, but focusing on one unit and Andy is undermining the other units just as much. Andy acts as sort of a leader in his games.

Andy could be like the Pokemon Trainer and stay in the background and give orders to a team of infantry soldiers a la Ice Climbers. The tank could be used as a Final Smash.

Oh, and I am bored once again... so here's my revised dream roster for SSB4.

45 character slots
- 25 starter characters
- 20 unlockable characters

52 playable characters
- 11 SSB veterans
- 9 Melee veterans
- 15 Brawl veterans
- 17 newcomers

Column 1: Mario
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Toad
5. Bowser

Column 2: Donkey Kong / Yoshi / Wario
6. Donkey Kong
7. Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong
8. King K. Rool
9. Yoshi
10. Wario

Column 3: Zelda / Tingle
11. Link
12. Zelda / Sheik
13. Ganondorf
14. Toon Link
15. Tingle

Column 4: Famicom / Famicom Disk System / Super Famicom
16. Ice Climbers
17. Takamaru
18. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
19. Pit
20. Captain Falcon

Column 5: Arcade / Gamecube / Game Boy Advance
21. Hunting Dog
22. Little Mac
23. Olimar
24. Golden Sun DS protagonist
25. Starfy

Column 6: Kirby / Mother
26. Kirby
27. Meta Knight
28. King Dedede
29. Ness
30. Lucas

Column 7: Star Fox / Fire Emblem
31. Fox
32. Krystal
33. Wolf
34. Marth
35. New Fire Emblem protagonist

Column 8: Pokemon
36. Red (Ivysaur, Charizard, Squirtle)
37. Pikachu
38. Meowth
39. Mewtwo
40. Gold (Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligatr)

Column 9: Nintendo system mascots / Third party mascots
41. Mr. Game & Watch
42. R.O.B.
43. Mii
44. Mega Man
45. Sonic

 

[SmashChu]

How about making the B button instantly win the round? If people are THAT uninterested or unable to not learn how to play a game then this is the only way to solve that problem 100%

I swear to god if I hear "NO MAKE THIS GAME CASUAL FRIENDLY **** COMPETITIVE NO MAKE IT COMPETITIVE FRIENDLY **** CASUAL" one more time I think I'm going to rage. You will NEVER get rid of the competitive scene, it will just adapt to that game, as the competitive scene for Brawl has adapted and moved on from Melee, and I know a lot of them still play Melee and/or Smash 64 as well, and the casuals who don't know about the competitive scene will NOT be affected by that in any way at all. Pandering ONLY to Competitive OR Casual games will **** up the game in the end. The balance is needed, both sides of the arguments keep insisting in their favor without considering the other side. This is ********, it's much worse than the "Official Brawl Speculation Thread" back when Brawl was first announced.

Wow, you're almost taking this personal.

In fact, your post proves that catering to the competitive community is a bad idea. They will just adapt, being the mindless drones they are.

Focusing on the competitive community is the first step to niche-hood. Street Fighter is the example I always give as it is the real case. Street Fighter 2 was a massive hit but other games in the series always fell flat. How could it be that such a successful game could never be matched, or even get near enough to look at. Fighting game immediately went into decline after SF2. That was, until 3D fighting games and Smash. In fact, out of all of those games, Smash is the only one which has growth.

The new players. those who have never played Smash, should be the next focus. But, basically, the game should be designed to try new feature (such as auto-recovery) eliminate some (like wavedashing in Melee), focus on old ones (unique characters and stages) and reduce those which are not as helpful (such as advance techs).

The problem is, there is no such thing as a balance. People quote Melee, but it never was. Melee defiantly had some barriers to it. Also, most casual players hated things like wavedashing and L-canceling as it means they were worse because they didn't practice doing one trick. The reason you ignore your competitive community is because giving them what they want just creates barriers. Doing the opposite will help eliminate barriers. Auto-Recovering removes barrier that may stun Smash's growth to new players. I think that fact that some people hate it on a competitive Smash forum means it's a good idea.

This. A thousand times this. I'm mostly annoyed right at the moment because Smashchu keeps talking as if his mother was ***** by competitive players. "Competitive gamers ruin the appeal of the game. Doing anything for them will kill Smash."

This is laughable since the post you quoted was a massive rant about auto-recoveries. Now somehow I talk as if I have a vendetta with competitive Smash.