[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mario the Jumpman]

Hey Hero, you could search through the MYM threads for a Baby Mario/Luigi moveset.

 

[spyrl-9]

Pieman0920 kinda' hinted at it a few pages back, but the most of the MYM's are a little over the top.
As in, most likely never make it in a Smash Bros. game.
Not that the movesets themselves aren't (for the most part) well designed, it's just the choices for characters... legal nightmare, and unfortunately, not worth the hassle.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Pieman0920 kinda' hinted at it a few pages back, but the most of the MYM's are a little over the top.
As in, most likely never make it in a Smash Bros. game.
Not that the movesets themselves aren't (for the most part) well designed, it's just the choices for characters... legal nightmare, and unfortunately, not worth the hassle.

Well, duh. MYM has seen movesets that bring in a money system, use blood, set traps, and change parts of the stage.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hazards aren't all that big a deal, I don't see why they seem to be...

They are for some stages like Spear Pillar and Wario Ware. Wario Ware's issue isn't really its hazards but the fact that the stage gives you bonuses if you pass the minigames in the form of becoming huge or becoming invincible. The effect is random which, according to competitive standards, should be avoided. Like I said earlier, not all hazards disrupt competitive play. The hazards on Halberd and Pictochat, for example, are fairly easy to avoid and you usually won't get killed by them unless you get thrown into them or are being careless. Stages like Spear Pillar and Norfair and can kill you even if you are careful because their hazards can take up a big percentage of the stage.

Hazards aren't that big of a deal in casual play but in competitive play they can be match deciding. For example, getting hit by one of the cannonballs on pirate ship can do up to 55% and reasonably kill you as low as 70%. During an intense match, that's a pretty big deal especially if the person had the upper hand before getting hit. The other example I've been using is on Spear Pillar and the controls become reversed while you're trying to recover. If you've ever done this with Lucas and Ness, you know how much of a disadvantage it puts you at. There's also the lazers, Cresselia's attack, and Dilaga randomly jumping out.

@ thirdkoopa:

The stage breaks apart sometimes at Spear Pillar. That is something I wouldn't classify as a hazard because it doesn't really disrupt anything; it's not like skyworld where if the stage breaks apart and your character has an average recovery or worse or if you accidently press down too hard and go under the clouds you're SOL.

 

[Pieman0920]

As far as I can see MYM movesets are over the top since they want to include basically everything in there, which means going through the generic moves, which must understandably be boring. Thus you get outlandish things for them, or have specialized systems granted to characters in order to make them stand out, or make them more interesting to make/read.

In any case, @ fatman

I still don't think its a smart idea to have things like that, since they will bite into creativity. In the case that each stage can be "frozen" so that its hazards never show up, what happens to a stage like Big Blue or one of the moving stages? If each stage is required to have a off button of sorts, then I really think creativity as a whole will suffer.

And while I'm sure that the developers know of and make acomidations for the hardcore crowd, its still doesn't change the fact that they have no incentive to particularly cater to them in favor of any casual players. If anything they are going to try to spread themselves out to try to appeal to everyone as much as they can.

And even if there are only five neutral stages, should there really be more? It seems more like a call for better aethetic options than anything, since the neutral stages themselves are so simmilar otherwise.

 

[Mowrt620]

I like the hazards, I don't see why it's such a big deal. Just fight on a non-hazard stage. Problem solved....?
Anyways, disallowing hazards would be generaly pointless...

 

[n88]

As far as I can see MYM movesets are way better than Sakurai's since they include basically everything in there, which means non-generic, non-boring standard attacks. Thus you get awesome things for them, or have specialized systems granted to characters in order to make them even more awesome.

Fixed.

I'm not sure how this crazy debate got started? Hypothetically, would it not be easier to make more neutral stages than make all the hazard-ful stages hazard-less?

 

[Pieman0920]

You may think its awesome, but its not really my cup of tea. :V

It would be easier, but the question is if there is really a need. The thing is most neutral stages only really are different in their backgrounds and music, while non-neutral stages have a much larger amount of variety. Thus while I'm okay with multiple neutral stages, going over like 6 or 7 is pushing it to a degree. Plus I think if the stage creator was implemented to have more aethetical choices, then the problems with the amount of neutral stages could be fixed to a degree.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I don't want a hazard control thing on because I am a competetive player. I find them annoying when I play casually. The freezing system could be in place on certain levels, or at least nerf some effects to make them less destrutive. For example, keep F-Zero the way it is, but make the cars do less damage, pass through players, or whatever. And put the feature in after, so no creativity is lost during development.

This feature, if implemented, would be made for the stages, not the stages for it.

 

[SmashChu]

Can you clarify what you mean in your first sentence? Are we talking about people who every now and then will play Smash for fun or the people that play it every day?

I'm not saying these people don't play the game long enough, but the hours you posted are simply an average. You have incredibly large numbers and incredibly small numbers in there.

First, you arguing against this can not help you. It helps by argument, but all you can do it put doubt because your doubting how it matters.

Talk to people in other game communities and you'll see that Smash players play it for a long time. This is what leads me to believe that there are lots of people still playing a lot. Also, Brawl sold ~8 million units. Nintendo channel is meant to work like a sample, so they hope to get enough people to give them information giving them a result that resembles the population. Since Brawl sold a lot, I'm sure it is a good indication of the population (as the number will be bigger).

Will they buy it, yes, but there's no guarantee that they'll go competitive. Look at Brawl, a good amount of people went back to Melee because they were disappointed with Brawl.

Everything past the bold is irrelevant. They will still buy it no matter what as they are loyal to the product. The low end players are not, so they are more important to try and attract.

Yet that model is how the world has worked under since the dawn of time. Tekken and Smash only rule the fighting genre if you're looking at this from a sales perspective. Other than that, it's entirely subjective.

No, that model has not worked in business. We are not talking about evolution. Society is designed to keep everyone alive and well, even the less fit. ******* would have died in the wild, but now we spends lots of money to help them.

Customers are not going to agree with your model, so they will simply not buy the product.

Another thing in this quote that bugs me is that you're saying 3D fighting games are easier than 2D ones and you also seem to imply that Smash is a 3D fighter when it's really 2.5D. 3D fighters and 2D fighters, while similar in fundamentals, from my experience, control very differently from each other. Seriously, getting a Tekken vet to play Street Fighter or vice versa is not an easy transition.

Most customers don't care. They are just trying to get some good content. If the game is easy to play and is something they want, then it can do well. 3D works when it adds a new experience from 2D without a lot of barrier. Fighting games work. Platformers don't very well.

Easy to learn and easy to master are two very different animals. Smash already does the former.

Harder games are harder to do both, but hard to learn keep customers away. And no, Nintendo can make the game easier. The next step would be to work on recoveries as that seems to be the biggest difficulty in Smash. Most people who are new that play with me have trouble recovering.

I'll say what n88 said to you a while back: You're saying that games should be easy as hell?

Easy games always do better then hard games. Card games are very easy and have little difficulty, but have a lot of depth. Ease of play is usually better then depth as people will still have some fun. Depth just keeps them playing long enough, but that comes from lot of things. In Smash, having lots of characters can add depth. In card games, wild cards can add depth.

Stop using the sales card, now. There's more than one way to making money through a videogame and I'm not talking DLC.

Here is some accounting for you

Sales-Cost of Goods Sold=Gross Margin
Gross Margin-expenses=Profit

Sales are the number 1 way to make money in any industry that sells products. There is no other way to make revenue besides nickle and dimming customers, which will not create a stable base. The only way to grow profits is

1. Increase revenue by increasing sales
2. Increasing revenue by raising price
3. Lower cost

Two is OK in the short term, but it depends on elasticity. Inelastic products would show diminishing returns. But elasticity may not reflect how your customers react to it. Lowering cost is also good, but it only allows you to keep more of your revenue. Essentially, you are capped by your revenue. Increasing sales is the best way to increase growth. For multiplayer games, one should make it easier to get more sales and increase revenue.

 

[Fatmanonice]

As far as I can see MYM movesets are over the top since they want to include basically everything in there, which means going through the generic moves, which must understandably be boring. Thus you get outlandish things for them, or have specialized systems granted to characters in order to make them stand out, or make them more interesting to make/read.

In any case, @ fatman

I still don't think its a smart idea to have things like that, since they will bite into creativity. In the case that each stage can be "frozen" so that its hazards never show up, what happens to a stage like Big Blue or one of the moving stages? If each stage is required to have a off button of sorts, then I really think creativity as a whole will suffer.

And while I'm sure that the developers know of and make acomidations for the hardcore crowd, its still doesn't change the fact that they have no incentive to particularly cater to them in favor of any casual players. If anything they are going to try to spread themselves out to try to appeal to everyone as much as they can.

And even if there are only five neutral stages, should there really be more? It seems more like a call for better aethetic options than anything, since the neutral stages themselves are so simmilar otherwise.

Big Blue doesn't have hazards which is why it wouldn't fit in this example. Again, I don't think people understand what I mean by hazards. Moving stages aren't hazards. When the stage "attacks" you, that's a hazard. Stages like Big Blue and Mushroomy Kingdom would no doubt remain banned. Again, I'm talking about stages like Corneria, Wario Ware, and Spear Pillar. With that being said, the hazard option wouldn't apply to every stage.

When it comes to spreading it all around, why not make competitive players part of the equation? Something this small is hardly catering. As I said in another post, stage freezes were figured out by hackers last fall so, without a doubt in my mind, it wouldn't be that much of an effort for professional programmers.

Regarding neutrals and counterpicks, there's only a few counterpicks that are borderline neutral like Delfino Isle and stages like Pictochat would be made more fair for competitive play if it weren't for the hazards. Again, it's a simple option that would probably be easy to include. Like I said before, hackers figured out how to mess with the stages before they learned how to fiddle around with items so, all in all, it's almost a non-issue.

 

[wiitubeaccount]

true combos, a fairly good attempt at charachters designs so that there are
no **** matchups or **** charachters. A combination of melée techniques and brawl strategy. Allow charachters like luigi to wavedash!

 

[Big-Cat]

Everything past the bold is irrelevant. They will still buy it no matter what as they are loyal to the product. The low end players are not, so they are more important to try and attract.

There's no guarantee that they will be loyal to the product. Like I mentioned earlier, the loyal players may hate the sequel and play the original instead which is what we've got going on right now.

No, that model has not worked in business. We are not talking about evolution. Society is designed to keep everyone alive and well, even the less fit. ******* would have died in the wild, but now we spends lots of money to help them.

Customers are not going to agree with your model, so they will simply not buy the product.

I suppose my model was extreme. In a fighting game which is like the world, it's eat or get eaten. However, players act like a society just as you mentioned it. The players help each other out by giving tips, advice on matchups, teaching BnB combos, and more to each other.

Most customers don't care. They are just trying to get some good content. If the game is easy to play and is something they want, then it can do well. 3D works when it adds a new experience from 2D without a lot of barrier. Fighting games work. Platformers don't very well.

Are you telling me that 3D fighters are inherently easier than 2D fighters? Yes, 3D fighters are more button mashing friendly, but 3D and 2D fighters require different skills. The same can be said for Smash and Tekken. Both control very differently from each and require different skills.

Harder games are harder to do both, but hard to learn keep customers away. And no, Nintendo can make the game easier. The next step would be to work on recoveries as that seems to be the biggest difficulty in Smash. Most people who are new that play with me have trouble recovering.

No, you can have a hard game with easy controls. Look at the Mario games. A fair number of them are rather hard, but the controls are extremely simple.

Also, from what I've heard, recoveries have already been made much easier with stuff like larger grab ranges and tether grabs. What are you proposing they do now? Have Shy Guys fly you back to the stage?

Here is some accounting for you

Sales-Cost of Goods Sold=Gross Margin
Gross Margin-expenses=Profit

Sales are the number 1 way to make money in any industry that sells products. There is no other way to make revenue besides nickle and dimming customers, which will not create a stable base. The only way to grow profits is

1. Increase revenue by increasing sales
2. Increasing revenue by raising price
3. Lower cost

Two is OK in the short term, but it depends on elasticity. Inelastic products would show diminishing returns. But elasticity may not reflect how your customers react to it. Lowering cost is also good, but it only allows you to keep more of your revenue. Essentially, you are capped by your revenue. Increasing sales is the best way to increase growth. For multiplayer games, one should make it easier to get more sales and increase revenue.

Sales is the number one way to make profits, but you are forgetting another method of gaining profits: Tournaments. Think about. Nintendo can sponsor tournaments throughout the country like Upperdeck did with Yu-Gi-Oh!. There would get a cut of the profits from the tournament fees. In return, after every three months or so, Nintendo provides prizes like a free game or even an advanced release or something even better.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@ thirdkoopa:

The stage breaks apart sometimes at Spear Pillar. That is something I wouldn't classify as a hazard because it doesn't really disrupt anything; it's not like skyworld where if the stage breaks apart and your character has an average recovery or worse or if you accidently press down too hard and go under the clouds you're SOL.

But If we had the no stage hazard, Spear Pillar would stay the same, thus causing it to still be banned and make...A smaller hyrule temple?

Of course, It could still change the statuses of some stages; On the other hand for stages that are already legal (Howdy pictochat) It could make people only use it on hazard-off and ignore the hazard-on version.

So overall, dunno. I'm still on the edge about it...You know what would be good for all stages? Being able to buy packs of past stages as DLC.

 

[n88]

So overall, dunno. I'm still on the edge about it...You know what would be good for all stages? Being able to buy packs of past stages as DLC.

Or maybe just including them on the disc.

@SmashChu

NSMBWii is supposedly among the hardest in the series. But I bet it'll sell like hotcakes, to casual and hardcore players alike. As Kuma said, not everything is about ease of play. Ease of control takes a big part. You can figure out all the controls of Smash in a short how-to-play viddeo, making it very easy to control compared to other fighters, which usually involve learning lengthy combos exclusive to a single character.

Plus, one could make the argument that we already have the super-easy version of Smash. A few competitive elements wouldn't really detract from Smash's casual appeal.

 

[darksamus77]

Easy to learn and easy to master are two totally different things (Sorry, I know somebody already said this, just reiterating (sp). It doesn't really matter that Smash is easy to learn. The best players have mastered the game by spending hours perfecting a strategy with a character/characters. They choose a character that fits their gameplay style (MK for me, cause he's fast) and then practice combos or whatever else. Street Fighter and those games require even more time spent practicing more difficult combos using different button combinations. So, in that sense, Smash is much simpler. But it also takes time to learn perfect shields, dodges, etc.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Or maybe just including them on the disc.

66 Stages reworked while still making new stages? (And there's not even the metal mario stage in those 66 )

I'd prefer it all as DLC, But If that all can manage to be resized and all that and fit on-disc along witih giving new stages a great variety, I'll take it. Really, am I the only one who thinks all of Smash 64's stages would work well?

OH EDIT:

Stage Discussion Group now open: http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=1709 You have to join to see It's contents, but I'd appreciate it If some of you joined, as stage discussion overall generally gets lost. So yeah, uh, that's about it.

Oh and feel free to discuss Stage Builder in there as well; I'll be having a list of ideas posted up on the group description.






---








Anyways, hopping back on roster discussion during parts of my vacation with no internet I decided to take a bit of time and finish something I was making. I'd like to call it "Rebirth of: Smash 4 - What afterwards?" Or "Possible DLC To throw on there" Or "Proving Arc that fan rosters can have a pretty box" And my favorite...

"Bringing back the Jody Summers debate from the dead" (Explinations are below, so don't just look at the pretty picture)

And for answers:
Geno? - Fans! http://www.trendir.com/archives/contemporary-ceiling-fans-modern-fan-pensi.jpg Asides from that, I guess it was already because I'm really biased for Square, and for FMOI.
Jody - For Toise...And after beating F-Zero GX, I can say that jody does stand out from the other racers. Not as important as BS And SG But she still COULD Have a spot in...
...But not in Smash 4.
Stafy - For Arc...And why not?
Felix - For Pieman and I
Retro's - Extremely debateable...Who guessed Pit and ROB Before they were announced? Furthermore, Sukapon was considered for both melee and brawl, so you never know If he'll revisit this idea.

Oh and the explination behind Black Mage/Choc instead of Slime/Choc: Don't have the render yet, and square is a shaky company, but once I get the slime render (or render it myself If I get impatient Tho not good at that, this roster proves this)

The lack of characters: (AKA: Honorable mentions that in an installment of smash have a good chance but I was too lazy to add them on due to the lack of internet on the comp that I made this on)
Tingle: Just to clarify, I'm actually completely indifferent; I just didn't want to bring back up the debate on him and was completely on the edge.
Toad: He's pretty important to the Mario series I suppose, and I actually do think he's more plausible than Geno

...However, I'm Square Enix and Bowser Jr biased.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Pieman
I'm not gonna get in this arguement, because it seems you already have an uphill battle with three on one, but I would like to ask two questions

Did Melee sell well?
Did causals enjoy playing Melee?


@Trekoops Roster
No Krystal
No Felix and Issac (essentially the same character), one or the other
No Geno
No Travis Touchdown
No to Lucario and new poke- choose one

 

[DekuBoy]

Darn, Koopa that's a pretty roster. Impossible but pretty. But why only 4 Zelda reps?

 

[n88]

@tercer koopa

I think that, should Geno make it in, he would be a third party rep. As a Mario character, he pales in comparison to every other Mario character. But I'm alright with Geno as a third party. It is Squeenix's call who they want in Smash, after all. But having both Geno and ChocoSlime? I doubt it for the same reason I doubt the inclusion of Tails. Sakurai doesn't hand out third-party inclusions like candy, and two from the same company seems unlikely.

I've never played F-Zero, so I can't say how important the characters are, but I wouldn't bet on three F-Zero newcomers in one game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Easy to learn and easy to master are two totally different things (Sorry, I know somebody already said this, just reiterating (sp). It doesn't really matter that Smash is easy to learn. The best players have mastered the game by spending hours perfecting a strategy with a character/characters. They choose a character that fits their gameplay style (MK for me, cause he's fast) and then practice combos or whatever else. Street Fighter and those games require even more time spent practicing more difficult combos using different button combinations. So, in that sense, Smash is much simpler. But it also takes time to learn perfect shields, dodges, etc.

Ultimately, a game like Street Fighter and Super Smash Bros. require different skill sets. To an extent, you'd be comparing apples to oranges. Yeah, they're both fruit, but their different at the same time.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No Krystal

She's the last important character from the SF Series. Why not?

No Felix and Issac (essentially the same character), one or the other

You could say the same about Ness and Lucas, and in this GS The two protaginists are also connected. They can be given different movesets.

No Geno

Fans!

No Travis Touchdown

Suda 51!

No to Lucario and new poke- choose one

Why? Representing more outside of first gen is great, as lucario has turned into the obvious poster for 4th gen, and there could easily be another.

Darn, Koopa that's a pretty roster. Impossible but pretty. But why only 4 Zelda reps?

Because honestly, the only character you could add to LoZ that's still active in the series currently (And wouldn't be something like "TOON THIS OLOL") Is tingle, and tingle is really debated, but yeah; I kinda did give LoZ the shaft as oppossed to other series that have stayed in a long time.

When I do the slime/chocobo edit, I may throw tingle in there. Dunno.

@tercer koopa

I think that, should Geno make it in, he would be a third party rep. As a Mario character, he pales in comparison to every other Mario character. But I'm alright with Geno as a third party. It is Squeenix's call who they want in Smash, after all. But having both Geno and ChocoSlime? I doubt it for the same reason I doubt the inclusion of Tails. Sakurai doesn't hand out third-party inclusions like candy, and two from the same company seems unlikely.

Geno is however a character much cheaper to liscense than tails due to shared copyrights, but I really am just biased for SE (He was grouped with mario because he makes more sense there like Wario and DK)

I've never played F-Zero, so I can't say how important the characters are, but I wouldn't bet on three F-Zero newcomers in one game.

This isn't quite for Smash 4, as despite almost every newcomer being important (Or just cool) There's no way all of them are getting in at the same time, but as stated, Jody deserves in at some point. (In before pie and toise)

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Hey Koopa, most Geno fanboys lack brain cells!

 

[n88]

@Jumpman

I will bring the wrath of The New Geno Alliance down on you. Geno may be the most overrated thing since Megan Fox, but bashing his fanbase is a ****-*** thing to do.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

@Jumpman

I will bring the wrath of The New Geno Alliance down on you. Geno may be the most overrated thing since Megan Fox, but bashing his fanbase is a ****-*** thing to do.

Fine, I'm sorry for insulting Geno's fanbase.

By the way, why does Geno have such a large fanbase?

 

[Pieman0920]

*sniffs the air*

Is that Jody Summer being brought back in here for no stinking reason other than to tick me off?!

I kid, I kid. I joke with you. But really, Jody's never going to be playable. :embarrass

EDIT: On the topic of Geno's popularity.... While I have never supported him as a character in Smash, he is one of my favorite Mario characters. There's just something interesting about him, even if there's not all too much to it.

 

[n88]

 

[Thirdkoopa]

*sniffs the air*

Is that Jody Summer being brought back in here for no stinking reason other than to tick me off?!

I kid, I kid. I joke with you. But really, Jody's never going to be playable. :embarrass
.

Hey hey, I put felix on there for you.

But as for jody; Yeah...She'll possibly be playable in like...Uh...30 years? She manages to stand out more than other F-Zero pilots but has a low priority of all of It's important characters. Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow first.

And If she gets captain falcon's punch...Just imagine hearing "JODY...PAWNCH" Heck, the spot I put her in is undeniably hilarious. Look carefully at Claus and D3 right next to her.

edit:
N88, I voted since I don't think I have after you cleaned it up, also: http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=1709 Stage discussion group gogogo.

 

[darksamus77]

*Shrugs* Why does any character have a large fanbase?

Anywho, the poll is gaining momentum, although I haven't had time to branch out to other sites yet. Unsurprisingly, Ridley (32), Mewtwo (32), K.Rool (31), and Isaac (30) are front-runners, with Lil'Mac (28) and Megaman (25) trailing just behind.

I'd agree with all 6, easily. Characters have a large fanbase because of one or more of the following (in no particular order):
1. They're mysterious, therefore cool (think Boba Fett)
2. They're totally evil (Bowser/Ridley)
3. They have some sort of twist/struggle inside (Vader, MK, Dedede)
4. They're a hero
5. They're flat-out funny
6. Anything else that you can think of
It just depends on what you're into and what kind of person you are, I guess, when it comes to characters

 

[Pieman0920]

Hey hey, I put felix on there for you.

But as for jody; Yeah...She'll possibly be playable in like...Uh...30 years? She manages to stand out more than other F-Zero pilots but has a low priority of all of It's important characters. Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow first.

And If she gets captain falcon's punch...Just imagine hearing "JODY...PAWNCH" Heck, the spot I put her in is undeniably hilarious. Look carefully at Claus and D3 right next to her.

edit:
N88, I voted since I don't think I have after you cleaned it up, also: http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=1709 Stage discussion group gogogo.

Actually, while I think Felix's role in the first two GS games was larger than Isaac's, I honestly don't think he's going to be playable because he's simply not as popular as Isaac, or topical as the new guy. Giving GS two characters in the first place is pushing it, but if they did, I really don't think Felix would be the one who gets the second spot.

Also as I said before, Jody would certainly be a clone of ZSS, not CF.

 

[-Axis-]

SSB4 needs Jumpman as a character.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Actually, while I think Felix's role in the first two GS games was larger than Isaac's, I honestly don't think he's going to be playable because he's simply not as popular as Isaac, or topical as the new guy. Giving GS two characters in the first place is pushing it, but if they did, I really don't think Felix would be the one who gets the second spot.

Topical? This new guy is basically the ninten of Golden Sun apparently. If GS Was to get 2 characters (Which I doubt in there first visit of smash) Felix sure seems plausible.

Also as I said before, Jody would certainly be a clone of ZSS, not CF.

...If jody was a clone that is. Point made still (However hearing "SUMMERS/JODY...PAWNCH" Would be hilarious)

 

[Pieman0920]

Topical? This new guy is basically the ninten of Golden Sun apparently. If GS Was to get 2 characters (Which I doubt in there first visit of smash) Felix sure seems plausible.

He's not the Ninten. He's the Ness. He's the newer one here. But in any case, while his physical apperance is close, it its obviously different, which is all that's needed. In terms of gameplay he'll probably a clone or something close to that, but the same is true of Felix, who basically has the same abilities as Isaac. It just doesn't make all too much sense to ignore the most recent incarnation of the series in order to focus completely on the past.

...If jody was a clone that is. Point made still (However hearing "SUMMERS/JODY...PAWNCH" Would be hilarious)

Well, I don't see how she wouldn't be a clone, given that she has no fighting abilities. In any case, as Toise corrected me before, its actually Summer, not Summers. :V

 

[DekuBoy]

I'd agree with all 6, easily. Characters have a large fanbase because of one or more of the following (in no particular order):
1. They're mysterious, therefore cool (think Boba Fett)
2. They're totally evil (Bowser/Ridley)
3. They have some sort of twist/struggle inside (Vader, MK, Dedede)
4. They're a hero
5. They're flat-out funny
6. Anything else that you can think of
It just depends on what you're into and what kind of person you are, I guess, when it comes to characters

Very well put. But you forgot the category for the underdog. That is why Olimar is my favourite anyway.

Also thethirdkoopa I don't think you're going to sell Jody just on the grounds of being 'hilarious'.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

SSB4 needs Ichigo as a character.

You serious?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

edit for deku:

Also thethirdkoopa I don't think you're going to sell Jody just on the grounds of being 'hilarious'.

Oh no; It's not the reason why she'd warrent a spot in the first place. Toise and Pie have already been over this subject, and she stands out (After the "Main" 3) The most. In GX, The only characters with dedicated chapters are Goroh, Black Shadow, and Jody

...And deathborne, but that's obviously a better suited boss. Point is; She has priority over the others. Smash 4? Eh...
Future Smash game eventually way in the future? Possibly.

He's not the Ninten. He's the Ness. He's the newer one here. But in any case, while his physical apperance is close, it its obviously different, which is all that's needed. In terms of gameplay he'll probably a clone or something close to that, but the same is true of Felix, who basically has the same abilities as Isaac. It just doesn't make all too much sense to ignore the most recent incarnation of the series in order to focus completely on the past.

Depends on how you look at it; He's a character who has less popularity and probably will still have less, just like ninten.

Who said the representation would be COMPLETELY On the past? Isaac still looks like the new guy (And can have an alt costume resembling that) It could have a stage, and felix could be a character. Sounds more representing than throwing in Isaac and the new guy with no felix love. I surely think he stands a candle for spot 2

That is; If there ever is to be 2 golden sun characters in a future smash game (Of course, golden sun could end up having more games as well, so yeah)

Well, I don't see how she wouldn't be a clone, given that she has no fighting abilities. In any case, as Toise corrected me before, its actually Summer, not Summers. :V

...SUMMER...PUNCH!

That's even more hilarious Anyways, she could be given a moveset from scratch too just like falcon.

 

[Pieman0920]

Jumpman, he never mentioned any Ichigo....

Silver Neelson had a chapter, as well as the Creators actually. Still, I don't know if you can even count the one chapter Jody had as something of a pro for her, since it was just her getting rescued. I can't look it up now, but did she even have a line in that chapter?

I don't think you or I can say anything in regards to the new GS character's popularity at this point in time. Its just not possible to predict. Heck, we don't even have a name.

Isaac's not the new guy, even if they look alike. If the new guy is a alt-costume, then why couldn't Felix be a alt-costume? They are all simmilar to each other, so an excuse like that works for all of them. And it also makes little sense to throw in a stage from the new game but no character from said game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Silver Neelson had a chapter, as well as the Creators actually. Still, I don't know if you can even count the one chapter Jody had as something of a pro for her, since it was just her getting rescued. I can't look it up now, but did she even have a line in that chapter?

It's a pro for her as oppossed to other F-Zero drivers If you were to add a fourth one; Unsure about the other F-Zero's (Wasn't 64 basically grand prix?)

I don't think you or I can say anything in regards to the new GS character's popularity at this point in time. Its just not possible to predict. Heck, we don't even have a name.

We know It probably won't surpass Isaac's unless it sells freakishly well. Felix...I don't quite know.

Isaac's not the new guy, even if they look alike. If the new guy is a alt-costume, then why couldn't Felix be a alt-costume? They are all simmilar to each other, so an excuse like that works for all of them.

Because Felix stands out enough like Lucas, but Felix could also be an alt. I suppose since we don't really know enough about the new guy (Asides from the fact he looks like another ninten case) So It's probably better to get back to this once we both have GS3.

And it also makes little sense to throw in a stage from the new game but no character from said game.

It'd only be truly awkward If there was no stage for the older GS's.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

It seems like the more I see character suggestions, the less I see characters such as:

• Andy (Advance Wars)
• Ray (Custom Robo)
• Lip (Puzzle League)
• Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo)

So I'd like some opinions, how likely do you think their inclusions are and would you mind their inclusions?

Another thing I'd like to know is where this fascination with Chocobo and Slime came from; I don't think I've ever seen the two together as one. It sounds to me some of you are trying to get away with a two-for-one type of deal, and I'm not sure how that'd work. If there's a game of the two together like Diddy/Dixie or Nana/Popo, then I'm all for it, but if not... well, how about either Chocobo or Slime for SSB4?

Isaac's not the new guy, even if they look alike. If the new guy is a alt-costume, then why couldn't Felix be a alt-costume? They are all simmilar to each other, so an excuse like that works for all of them. And it also makes little sense to throw in a stage from the new game but no character from said game.

Really, Pieman?

 

[n88]

What do people think about.....THIS ROSTER?

Super Mario Bros
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina

Donkey Kong
DK
Diddy
Dixie
King K. Rool

Yoshi's Island
Yoshi

WarioLand/Ware
Wario

Legend of Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra

Metroid
Samus (Zero Suit Samus)
Ridley

Famicom/Retro
Pit
Ice Climbers
ROB
Mach Rider

Kirby Superstar
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Pikmin
Olimar

StarFox
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

F-Zero
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Mewtwo
5th Gen Poke (Yes, I know, "Grr! Placeholders!" But it's bound to happen.

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Roy

Mother/Earthbound/Idk wtf to call this series
Ness
Lucas

Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch

Golden Sun
Isaac

Sin & Punishment
Saki

Punch-Out!!
Little Mac

The Legendary Starfy
Starfy

Third Party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Geno

And of course, Random

Characters: 58
Spots on the Character Select Screen: 53 (54 with random)

This makes a pretty 6x9 box, but that's actually a coincidence.