[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Take out an Http in the above link

And while all of the aforementioned characters are odd, or unusual, the fact that they are popular isn't the issue, it;s that none of them are "creepy" or awkward. People find Tingle to be more than odd, he's a creep. Plumbers aren't creepy, nor are princesses.

 

[Pieman0920]

I worded that awfully;
You see how Past Stages only have two songs? Now then: Why is it that I can't take songs from the same series (New Pork City stage music) and put them on a different stage (Onett) of the same series?

Better?

Umm....I guess? That's a totally different complaint though, since it was very clear by your wording that you didn't think you could change the music on a custom stage, although you actually can. (As for this complaint though, its because the music is grouped by stage not by series, which is understandable, and something I hope they actually keep for the next game.)


In any case, I really don't understand the Tingle stuff you're talking about. Could Tingle be hurt because one region doesn't like him? Yes. Can Tingle be hurt because he doesn't seem like your average fighter? Not really. We have precedence of characters who have a large amount of people who dislike them, as seen in the case of Jigglypuff. That doesn't mean everyone hates the character, and I'm sure the same would go for Tingle. And as said many times before, if you really hate him that much, he is a perfectly good punching bag. (For people who dislike Pokemon, that's a large amount of the appeal for Pokemon)

And really now, Tingle does have his fans. That's how he's gotten two games. You're acting like everyone hates him so much that there's no excuse for him getting in, but if he really was hated, he wouldn't show up again and again.

 

[flyinfilipino]

First, there has never been a character added that people hate. Krystal would have been the closest thing to that if she got in.

Also, Toise explained it really well again. Why add a character people hate.

There are a lot of people out there who couldn't care less for Pokemon, and some even despise it. Pokemon characters are still being added anyway. Why do the haters matter? They'll still buy the game for the stuff that they do like.

It's a matter of opinion, inwhich, america doesn't see that as plausible. America is the main central of Smash Games sales wise. Sakurai is known to try and please fans. How would Tingle accomplish that?

Answer: He wouldn't. As stated you would be pretty surprised to see how many people care for newcomers. A lot of people I know are usually playing with a newcomer, whether It be Ike, Meta-Knight, Lucario, Pit, Olimar, Lucas, etc.

As I said; It's still not a good reason to add him in.

As I just said, Tingle has his fans. Tingle has a lot of fans, especially in Japan, where the game is made. Why is it hard to believe that Sakurai might consider pleasing them too? Sure, he's not the coolest-looking character, but do you think Sakurai would intentionally try to make him as lame and annoying as possible?

I'm not arguing in favor of Tingle's inclusion (because I don't really care for him, personally), but rather against all these reasons why Sakurai would definitely not think about adding him.

Anime wishes to have a word with you right about now.

So, what other moves outside of Falcon Punch are from the F-Zero anime then? *just out of curiousity*

People have been saying moveset out because of all things Sakurai gave him...He throw's out flowers and items.

Of course; Sakurai has previously denied some characters (Didn't he say something about bubbles like "It doesn't actually fight"?) for moveset, well similar. Not that It's anything holding tingle back If they make something...Not using flowers? I don't know a better way on wording it.

Tingle's role as an Assist Trophy is very specific. They wanted him to have a specific effect, so the didn't depict him fighting, though he can. You can't really judge his moveset potential from that. Charizard did only one thing as a Pokeball Pokemon...and look where he is now!

 

[Pieman0920]

Wait wait wait, I didn't read through all those arguments up there, but someone thought Falcon's Falcon punch was from the anime? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the anime took it from the game. (Remember, the anime came after GX, which came after Melee)

There have been no refferences to the F-Zero anime, with the possible exception that Zoda, who is fairly unimportant in the games, yet got a trophy in Brawl.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Take out an Http in the above link

And while all of the aforementioned characters are odd, or unusual, the fact that they are popular isn't the issue, it;s that none of them are "creepy" or awkward. People find Tingle to be more than odd, he's a creep. Plumbers aren't creepy, nor are princesses.

What about Wario? His teeth are so big that he can't even shut his mouth, his nose is the size and shape of a bulb of garlic, his feet are smaller than his eyes, he runs on his tip toes using exaggerated choppy motions, and one of his most powerful attacks in Brawl is farting.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Wait wait wait, I didn't read through all those arguments up there, but someone thought Falcon's Falcon punch was from the anime? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the anime took it from the game. (Remember, the anime came after GX, which came after Melee)

There have been no refferences to the F-Zero anime, with the possible exception that Zoda, who is fairly unimportant in the games, got a trophy in Brawl.

Aw, see, that's what I thought.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

What about Wario? His teeth are so big that he can't even shut his mouth, his nose is the size and shape of a bulb of garlic, his feet are smaller than his eyes, he runs on his tip toes using exaggerated choppy motions, and one of his most powerful attacks in Brawl is farting.

Touche

i suppose the creepy isn't an arguement either...People just hate him, Haha

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Irrationality knows no bounds. Just wait until SSB4 is announced in a few years. LOL

Oh god...The thoughts...
"ISAAC SHOULDNT BE IN BECAUSE HED BE A MARTH CLONE"
"LUCAS SHOULD BE REMOVED IN FAVOR OF JEFF/PORKY/PAULA/POO/ETC"
"SAKURAI IS SEXIST BECAUSE KRYSTAL'S AN AT"
"THIS STAGE CONFIRMS TODAY THAT SAKURAI HATES COMPETITIVE PLAYERS"
"WI-FI STILL SUCKS"
"TINGLE AINT DECONFIRMED YET ITS JUST A PAST STAGE GAIZ"
"STORY MODE IS AWFUL"
"THE ROSTER WILL BE 80 CHARACTERS LOL"

etc...Just the thoughts...

...Then again It could be hilarious. Anyhow seriously going on with this;

Didn't Sakurai already explain why he didn't add leaderboards in Brawl? Click here for Sakurai's answer.

It's still an awful answer considering other nintendo games has that. Really; If he's in for fan satisfaction, I think he needs to know what other online modes have to offer.

With Anyone = CPU's basically sometimes somewhat smartter.

Just throwing that out there.

I think it is because of two factors. One is that most fans don't want any characters to be removed at all. Second is that I think it is because Krystal is a fap fodder for furries.

No; It's because of fanbase. Sakurai's in it for pleasing fans of each series (Thus why It's not like Smash 64 where he adds in 1-2 from each series and calls it a day) Because once a series is established, It seems you can only go up.

I was mainly throwing that out there for the people who are like "OMG WHY DOES MOTHER HAVE 2 REPS COMPLAIN BAW etc"

Sukapon? What does he has to do with Mr. Game & Watch?

Without both of those characters, chances are smash wouldn't exist, and I bring sukapon up rather a lot anyways...Wonder If he'll ever get in, but going on;

The anime came out in 2003. Four years before the original SSB and two years before Melee. Therefore Captain Falcon's moves were made-up.

Oh, really? Well; I'll let toise answer this one considering he knows more about the F-Zero series by far.

Only two moves of the whole moveset Sheik has were from OOT. Up B and Down B. Of course, it kinda made sense for him/her to use the Light Arrow since he/she is really Zelda but Zelda really used it twice. First time in TWW and second time in TP.

Then I really have forgot quite a bit on that. Guess so that one along with Falcon and ROB Were made out of nowhere.

I think Sakurai asked how could Bubbles fight if she cannot stop herself from moving around (just like in Clu Clu Land).

Nope; wasn't that; quote here from starmen:
"
-Bubbles (from Clu Clu Land) (“she (?) doesn’t really know how to fight”)" - From Starmen about a list of unused characters and whatnot.

Anyhow moving on;

I agree. They are all bad arguements. I want to add one more bad argument you forgot to mention.

"WE CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY FIRST GEN POKEYMANS"

Well actually; It really just falls under a bad point to make. Also that one is a logical point depending on situation because It falls under the overpopulation rule, and Pokemon is a pretty big series. However unlike most other RPG's, you can carry pokemon from the previous game over. Moving on;

Remember the hat ROB got when he was revealed for Brawl? He was a useless NES accessory, made into a great fighter. I think Tingle would gain popularity from a Smash Bros roster spot. Oh, and he's Eiji Aonuma's favourite character. Though even he knows about the character's dubious popularity...

A useless NES Accessory? Do you know why the NES Is called the Nintendo Entertainment System? Nintendo had to sell it off as an entertainment system because retailers didn't want to sell game systems, and ROB Supported that.

...And ROB Isn't really a great fighter to the game. "Yeah, I totally loved my ROB That threw lasers out of his eyes for me"

Regardless; ROB Wasn't really there to gain popularity. Just pointing that out.

Thank you for backing up my argument on that.

No problem; Besides I didn't want it to just turn into only "Yeah; It's popular" Because a lot of the ones Arc listed were ones that were heavily sensible (Even in comparison to tingle)

I'm sorry, but lol.

Just pointing it out, Gunpei Yokoi, creator of the Game Boy, Game & Watches, designer for R.O.B., and Metroid producer, died in 1997. Smash Bros 64 came out 1999. Melee came out in the 2001. But adding Mr. Game & Watch was most certainly a tribute, as Gunpei Yokoi was a close friend and mentor for Sakurai.

Oh; I'm a bit wrong on that end then and forgot a bit about that whole thing; Still makes FAR More sense to nintendo than most characters even ON The roster.

Regarding Lucas, his B moves, his usmash, and his fsmash are the only attacks that come directly from Mother 3. Everything else is not a specific attack from the games. For example, in Mother 3, the rope Snake was not used to grab enemies. In Mother 3, Lucas didn't have any kicks or punches and, even if he did, the graphic style of the Mother franchise in prevents you from seeing physical attacks in battle. Overall, most of his attacks are not specific attacks from the game. Also, I didn't count Final Smashes because I don't see them as standard because they're item triggered.

Ah; I see.

Still; The point is it HAS To do with the music combo. What did you think he did? Swang his bat around 16 more times? Tho It's never specific about WHAT He does, I'm just pointing out that at least technical wise, everything from his moveset DOES Come from the game. You can 100% At least that one...

Going on here;

Regarding Sakurai's "criteria" we're not entirely sure what it is. He added Dr. Mario in Melee because he liked his theme. He added Ganondorf because, physically speaking, he's designed similar to Captain Falcon. He kept King Dedede and Metaknight out of Melee because he didn't want to show bias towards his own characters. The assumption is that the three key factors are importance, popularity, and Sakurai's opinion. The first is pretty standard but it doesn't guarentee anything, the second is still highly questionable, and, of course, Sakurai isn't entirely straight forward about who he picks or, more importantly, why.

The Critera...I'll have SmashChu dig that one up (Or whoever posted it, I think it was him or Kuma)

Take out an Http in the above link

Yes.

And while all of the aforementioned characters are odd, or unusual, the fact that they are popular isn't the issue, it;s that none of them are "creepy" or awkward. People find Tingle to be more than odd, he's a creep. Plumbers aren't creepy, nor are princesses.

One full page in a nutshell!


Anyhow, to put in a more "Full" Opinion on LoZ:
We already know Link, TL, Zelda/Shiek, and Ganondorf are returning; Possibly he may rename TL Again to annoy all of us.

Now, If Sakurai starts giving a "+1" To the Big Three, then Tingle (for now) Seems to be first in line, but keep note that some things can change for LoZ In the next 5 Or so years. Take for instance tingle himself: Would he really have had a chance during melee? US Hate and all can help keep him out, but will it truly in the end? We don't know, but we do know he doesn't have no chance whatsoever and we also know that he isn't a shoe-in or anything of the sorts due to it.

 

[Hero Dude]

I agree with fat man, but if he happens to get a spot in a high place on the SSB4 poll (IF there is one) then he will proboly be in.

If Japan wants him, we will probobly get him.
Its difficult to understand, becouse we hate him, and they love him.
I can't think of anything........

 

[.WC.]

I hate Tingle, because I'd prefer a lot more characters from TLOZ over him, but there aren't many long-range fighters in the game. He'd probably play like Zelda, right?

 

[BBQTV]

cause he wants to make everyone happy and stop talking about tingle dam it

 

[Fatmanonice]

I agree with fat man, but if he happens to get a spot in a high place on the SSB4 poll (IF there is one) then he will proboly be in.

If Japan wants him, we will probobly get him.
Its difficult to understand, becouse we hate him, and they love him.
I can't think of anything........

Fan demand isn't the only thing that gets people in. Like I mentioned earlier, for Melee, Sakurai completely overlooked Ganondorf's popularity and said that he wouldn't have even added him if it weren't for him having a similar body structure to Captain Falcon (his favorite character at the time).

I hate Tingle, because I'd prefer a lot more characters from TLOZ over him, but there aren't many long-range fighters in the game. He'd probably play like Zelda, right?

Hard to say and it really depends on how close they want to make the character to how he is in the games. For example, in the Metal Gear Solid games, Snake's main weapons are a knife and a gun but, for Brawl, they chose to give him mostly explosives. Another example is Wario who only has two moves (fthrow and fsmash) that are actually taken from his games despite, especially in the Wario Land games, a ton of material to use.

cause he wants to make everyone happy and stop talking about tingle dam it

He has never said this, in fact, he has noted that it is virtually impossible to make everyone happy and that he refuses to build the roster entirely from popular characters.

 

[BBQTV]

but he does do things based on popularity

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Another longish post so soon, yay?

I can't think of anything........

I have a discussion topic but I'll post it once I get back from guitar class.

Wait wait wait, I didn't read through all those arguments up there, but someone thought Falcon's Falcon punch was from the anime? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the anime took it from the game. (Remember, the anime came after GX, which came after Melee)

There have been no refferences to the F-Zero anime, with the possible exception that Zoda, who is fairly unimportant in the games, yet got a trophy in Brawl.

I was just thinking that the game took it from the anime, but as stated I don't know much about F-Zero, so If anyone's to answer falcon's moveset origin's in this thread, It's toise.

There are a lot of people out there who couldn't care less for Pokemon, and some even despise it. Pokemon characters are still being added anyway. Why do the haters matter? They'll still buy the game for the stuff that they do like.

You'd be surprised at the tingle hate in the US then Watch sakurai announce him then announce something like tripping gone the next day. I'll lol so hard.

As I just said, Tingle has his fans. Tingle has a lot of fans, especially in Japan, where the game is made. Why is it hard to believe that Sakurai might consider pleasing them too? Sure, he's not the coolest-looking character, but do you think Sakurai would intentionally try to make him as lame and annoying as possible?

Point made; Tingle still does have fans, we've never denied that part. (Tho I feel like I'm starting to make it seem like he has more haters than likers <.<)

I'm not arguing in favor of Tingle's inclusion (because I don't really care for him, personally), but rather against all these reasons why Sakurai would definitely not think about adding him.

Oh we all know (Asides from smashchu) That he'll at least consider it.

Tingle's role as an Assist Trophy is very specific. They wanted him to have a specific effect, so the didn't depict him fighting, though he can. You can't really judge his moveset potential from that. Charizard did only one thing as a Pokeball Pokemon...and look where he is now!

I'm not judging it off; I'm going with why people generally bring it up (Well one reason)

Umm....I guess? That's a totally different complaint though, since it was very clear by your wording that you didn't think you could change the music on a custom stage, although you actually can. (As for this complaint though, its because the music is grouped by stage not by series, which is understandable, and something I hope they actually keep for the next game.)

They shouldn't; Snowman by far fits better on Onett than it does on New Pork City. Past Stages shouldn't be limited. But continuing on to more important matters;

And really now, Tingle does have his fans. That's how he's gotten two games. You're acting like everyone hates him so much that there's no excuse for him getting in, but if he really was hated, he wouldn't show up again and again.

I'm not actually; He for sure has a fanbase outside of the US; He for sure still has a fighting chance and is so far number one priority for a LoZ Newcomer. I was just throwing out that the US Hate is still a disadvantage, then It kinda spurred into this whole quote tree stuff.

I was just pointing the part about newcomers out simply because tingle is just...I don't even know how to word it well. Shino sort of did it well for me so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

but he does do things based on popularity

Of course but he's made it apparent that it's not the only factor and it's definately not the most important factor.

 

[n88]

@Fatman

So far, popularity has not been the basis for decision-making, but I think it will be in the future. After the important characters are in (And there aren't many left), there will still be more additions, either due to popularity or Sakurai trying to throw us a screwball. And Sakurai can only whip out the "Surprise! An obscure NES character!" so many times.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I can somewhat agree with that considering most of the major frachises have had their biggest characters tapped. Essentially, Brawl has most of the major players in the game and what's left is smaller franchise heros (like Isaac and Stafy), 2-3 villians (K. Rool and Ridley if you ask me), third party (like Megaman), and maybe like 2-3 side characters.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I'm hoping Sakurai doesn't add any joke characters to the roster.

And if Sakurai actually decides the roster mostly on popularity, Naruto would have been playable in Brawl, and I doubt many SWF members would want that.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Naruto? WTH? Naruto is a character that has nothing to do with Nintendo. So far, most of the characters with large fanbases have gotten in.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I don't want that dope in Smash either.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

I don't want that dope in Smash either.

I could tell that by your sig.

 

[BBQTV]

come on im pretty sure he would never be considered and im someone who likes naruto

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Toise, are you saying a man in tights wouldn't fit right in the crowd with plumbers, princesses, pink puffballs, psychic kids, furries, an electric rat, a stick figure, a NES peripheral, and an astronaut with flower soldiers? Really.

Of course he "fits," it's almost impossible not to fit thematically in Smash (especially considering he's already made two appearances ingame).

That doesn't mean people will accept him as a playable character, regardless of whether they've heard of him or not.

None of these designs result in widespread disgust or hatred in North America (yes, that includes Jigglypuff, she's very popular here too). Exotic in some cases, but not hated.

This inspires all sorts of negative reactions from just about anyone. It's "freaky." It's "gay." It's "********." It's simply too different for our culture to accept on a massive level. Even Nintendo agrees on that.

Sakurai isn't interested in shoving things we hate down our throats. Things we're unfamiliar with, sure, but not things we hate. It's completely against his goal of making the game for the customer.

"Ultimately, gaming should be about the customers and I couldn’t figure out at the time why there were so few games made with the customers in mind. I thought it strange at the time and I feel the same way today." - Mr. S


Here's a good science experiment for you: Go to work/school/a crowded public place and show people a slide show of video game characters. Put Tingle in there somewhere in the middle. See what the audience thinks.

Why add a character that people hate? Because, as I already explained, there's overwelming evidence that people will still buy it anyways. It's like with the Sonic franchise; there's basically been mediocre to cry yourself to sleep bad games since Sonic Adventure 2 but the franchise is still one of the best selling in gaming. The fans have said "no more crappy cameras, no more useless additional characters, no more gimmicks, etc" but SEGA has pretty much stayed the course and the series is still going strong. Honestly, if Sonic can still be a best selling franchise after train wrecks like Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic R, and Sonic Heros, then I think Smash Bros will easily survive the addition of Tingle. I think we're giving ourselves too much credit in this situation and overlooking the developers themselves. We are the fans but the number of fans who would legitimately boycott Smash Bros is laughably low and even then they are quickly and greatly outnumbered by those who really don't care who's added as long as the game is still fun overall.

What kind of designer of anything deliberately adds flaws? A bad designer, that's who. There's a pretty big difference between unintentionally marring a game (tripping, excluding certain characters because of time) and going out of your way to do something people don't like (adding a character people hate).


I could have a pizza place where I always add anchovies on one slice for every pizza. Some people like anchovies, right?

Well what about the people who hate it? I guess they could just not eat that slice, but now they're only getting 7/8 of a pizza since they throw away the 8th piece. The scent of anchovies also bleeds over to the other slices, so they still kinda have a little bit of that flavor in them. This happens every time they order any pizza, no matter the size or toppings.

Will I still sell pizzas? Of course, there's still the people who like anchovies and the people willing to put up with one crap slice for seven good ones (even if they can't completely ignore the crap slice). Everyone else will find some other means to fill their tummies and that means I lose customers. Basically, I'm going out of my way to add something largely hated by the majority just to slightly enhance the experience of a few.

Why would anyone want to do that?

I was just thinking that the game took it from the anime, but as stated I don't know much about F-Zero, so If anyone's to answer falcon's moveset origin's in this thread, It's toise.

It's made-up. Doesn't make it any less awesome though.

 

[n88]

@Toise

Theoretically, couldn't you pick the anchovies off?

Whatever, though. I get the analogy. But it's not Tingle's appearance that makes him hated. This man has quite the fanbase, despite being just as disturbing and creepy:

As a sidenote, most of my friends were introduced to Tingle via his AT, and either just found him strange or laughed at him.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

n88: Even if you don't eat anchovies, get a pepperoni pizza sometime and take the pepperonis off after it's ready to eat. You can still taste them. Anchovies have a much stronger taste and scent so it's even harder to ignore.

Most people like Wario though, even if he has some awful first impressions. That's another subject though.

Anyway, Tingle as an AT isn't bad, you see him do something funny and then he's gone for like half an hour at least. As a playable character though, he's much harder to ignore. Imagine your friends' response to him when he does his little dance over and over again because you keep beating them.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Did you have to pick the worst picture possible?

That's a little better.

All the little reasons you give for people not possibly not liking Tingle could be applied to anyone that may not like a particular character. It's not really a good argument. How are you so sure that there are more people that hate Tingle than like him anyway?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well i personally think it because I have heard more people say that he is *insert explitive here* rather than *insert praise here*. I have heard way more of the first than the latter.

 

[n88]

@Toise

The people I know don't ignore him as an AT, they just think he's funny. And the doing his dance repeatedy thing is true of any character. I spent my very early Smash-days playing against people much better than myself. I can testify that any character is annoying as hell to repeatedly lose against. Over-exposure to Tingle can easily be solved by not using Tingle. I don't know anybody who doesn't hate someone on the roster.

(Tingle's dance would probably be either a taunt anyway. Something you have to do yourself. If you're just doing it to PO your friends, then you're an ***hole, and Tingle isn't the problem. )

EDIT: And yeah, you did pick the worst possible picture (If you know of a worse one, please don't prove me wrong)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

For anyone wanting a new topic: Let's discuss Sukapon! And replying to some stuff:

I can somewhat agree with that considering most of the major frachises have had their biggest characters tapped. Essentially, Brawl has most of the major players in the game and what's left is smaller franchise heros (like Isaac and Stafy), 2-3 villians (K. Rool and Ridley if you ask me), third party (like Megaman), and maybe like 2-3 side characters.

That'll be enough to at least fill up smash 4, There's:
-5 Or so characters you could easily throw on existing series (Claus, K. Rool, Samurai Goroh, Mewtwo, etc etc come into mind here)
-2 Third-Parties (MM And some other dude; I doubt now with Suda51 wanting Travis in that they'd say no, and I doubt that sakurai would go above 2 new ones, but who knows?)
-Franchises we missed out on the first time, let's just say, oh, 2? (Saki and Isaac cool stuff)
Yeah; Seems about at 9, and then the obligatory "Hey lets throw in two random nes characters" - Seems at an expected roster (And note the "Or so's" Worth more potential behind them"

It's "freaky." It's "gay." It's "********." It's made-up.

I don't know why but I found this funny so I decided to sig It if you don't mind.

Oh; And totally agreed.

EDIT: And yeah, you did pick the worst possible picture (If you know of a worse one, please don't prove me wrong)

Worst official one probably.

 

[KingofKingDDD's]

I know this has been talked alot, but like many fans out there, I think Ganondorf should be CF independent, I mean, he's such a cool character, with many cool appearances at many epic games, I think Sakurai's decision of giving him CF's moveset is lame, so yeah here's a moveset I thought of that could fit in case a ssb4 comes out:

up B: (based on OOT) works like ROB's up B, he flies while standing up like in the ganondorf battle with the same blowing air sounds and stuff. Like ROB, you can disable this mode and use it over and over again while airbone, but he has a limited capacity that once its over he falls to his doom, this capacity recharges 2 seconds after he touches the ground. He can't do A attacks while in this mode however...

side B: (based on Twilight Princess) he does a high summersault leap to whoever direction you where pointing, and once he hits the ground, he releases the Sage's sword and with it he does the spin-like slash he does in the Twilight Princess battle to any horizontal direction you like. If your control stick was pointing left during the land, he'll slash left, if it was pointing right, he slashes right, if it was pointing nowhere, he'll simply slash to his fornt side. The sword slash delivers tremendous horiztonal knockback. He has super armor during the leap. You can also combine this move with his up B to at last give Ganondorf a nice recovery .

neutral B: (based on OOT) He raises both hands to the air and charges a big ball. You can keep it as long as you like, and once you release the button he releases several homing power orb projectiles, the more you charged the ball, the more of these orbs that come out. The orbs come out after the closest opponents. The coolest thing of this attack, is that if you use it while airbone, Ganondorf charges the ball while suspended on the air! This just happens once however, the second time you use this attack while airbone he does it but he continues falling, kind of like marth's side B, which in the first slash it gives marth slight fall speed, but once he does it again he just keeps falling.

down B: (based on OOT) he smashes his fist to the ground and creates a huge earthshaking effect, kind of like DK's down B, but less constant and more powerful, with KO capabilities. If he does this while airbone he falls quickly to the ground with his fist pointing downard, if his fist hits someone he performs the strongest spike in the game. Of course this can't be cancelled he stops until he hits solid terrain.


And some of his A attacks should be changed as well (cuz the actual ones are property of CF):

down smash: he smashes one foot violently to the ground, provoking a rather weak earthshaking effect (you know, like DK's down B). If the actual foot hits an opponent he buries him to the ground. If this attack hits a recovering opponent you perform the greatest spike ever.

side smash: a strong one-handed slash with the Sage's sword.

BTW he allready has the Volcano Kick (up tilt) so his Warlock punch should not be missed.

 

[n88]

Didn't I say, "don't prove me wrong"

Actually, I still think Toise's is worse.

EDIT: Not bad ideas, but I don't think G-dorf's gatting quite such a radical make-over. His Side-B is sheer ownage, and needs to stay.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Fine, I'll use the ones from his actual games:

All the little reasons you give for people not possibly not liking Tingle could be applied to anyone that may not like a particular character. It's not really a good argument. How are you so sure that there are more people that hate Tingle than like him anyway?

How many other Nintendo characters have been exiled from their main series and into a region-exclusive spinoff specifically due to negative fan reception?


thirdkoopa: I kinda mind, particularly since the last part I didn't even say (and sigged quotes without context are kinda... meh).

 

[n88]

@Toise

You did say the last part, but it was at the end of your post, about Falcon's moveset.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Oh you sneaky...

Guess the context thing still applies though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

"Ultimately, gaming should be about the customers and I couldn’t figure out at the time why there were so few games made with the customers in mind. I thought it strange at the time and I feel the same way today." - Mr. S


Here's a good science experiment for you: Go to work/school/a crowded public place and show people a slide show of video game characters. Put Tingle in there somewhere in the middle. See what the audience thinks.




What kind of designer of anything deliberately adds flaws? A bad designer, that's who. There's a pretty big difference between unintentionally marring a game (tripping, excluding certain characters because of time) and going out of your way to do something people don't like (adding a character people hate).


I could have a pizza place where I always add anchovies on one slice for every pizza. Some people like anchovies, right?

Well what about the people who hate it? I guess they could just not eat that slice, but now they're only getting 7/8 of a pizza since they throw away the 8th piece. The scent of anchovies also bleeds over to the other slices, so they still kinda have a little bit of that flavor in them. This happens every time they order any pizza, no matter the size or toppings.

Will I still sell pizzas? Of course, there's still the people who like anchovies and the people willing to put up with one crap slice for seven good ones (even if they can't completely ignore the crap slice). Everyone else will find some other means to fill their tummies and that means I lose customers. Basically, I'm going out of my way to add something largely hated by the majority just to slightly enhance the experience of a few.

Why would anyone want to do that?

This is getting out of hand... Now you're beginning to talk as if Americans are genetically inclined to hate Tingle. He's a video game character, not a pedofile. I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed with how you're reacting to this.

The pizza example doesn't work because the fans don't have direct input into what goes into the game. They make suggestions and Sakurai goes, "hmm, I think that's a good idea" or "hmm, I don't think that will work". With pizza, you have near complete control on how it turns out. You also have to consider that there are much fewer factors with the pizza and that the customers is paying specifically for those few factors. It's definaetly not the same as I'll show below.

Here's a more realistic view of your thesis: a restaurant has to decide between Heinz ketchup and Hunt's ketchup. Despite being much less popular, they decide to go with Hunt's because it's cheaper. Overall, the customers don't care for the taste and they use less ketchup on their food. Despite this, customers still come. This is how SSB4 would be with Tingle. Simply adding him would not hurt sales and, unlike the pizza, there are plenty of ways around him without getting cheated out of what you've paid for.

With the pizza, you're out a slice and, as you said, 12.5% of the pizza. With SSB4, you still have 45/49 characters to chose from as well as 50+ stages which leads to a freakishly huge number of play combinations even if you don't include items. In fact, I already know people who do this with the Ice Climbers/Wario/ROB/Jigglypuff etc so it's not the least bit unrealistic unless you're going to try convincing me that people will fly into a rage simply seeing him on the character select screen.

Now to put this hyperbole to bed, with the pizza, you can't return just the slice because you don't like it. With SSB4 (although it's borderline insane and have never heard of it happening), you can return the whole game if you don't like it and even get a full refund if you have the original ticket. Basically, there's really no way the gamer could be greatly hurt from this. Tingle would just be a very small part of the game who could easily be danced around if anyone truly hates him that much.

Side note: As already said, Sakurai cares about the fans opinions... to a degree. What is said there is basically standard PR and we know that Brawl wasn't build from the ground up for the fans. If anything, some of our wants simply consided with Sakurai's and the only really big examples of the fans getting their way in Brawl is online(Sakurai said he originally didn't want to do it) and Sonic (self explanitory).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Eh I removed it anyways; but It still was pretty funny for the time being.

Anyhow, new long debate discussion, Sukapon!
Reasons why he should be in:
1)Sukapon is an important character to nintendo (Well, more so Smash)
He's from nintendo's first "Fighting" Game - That's an influence onto smash (iirc sakurai has said smash was going to originally be like joy mech fight, and to be honest it is similar to JMF)

2)Sukapon is a good "wild card" character:
Sukapon is an important character maybe not to nintendo's history that much but to smash, similar to how G&W And ROB Are big to nintendo.

3)Sukapon scored well on the melee polls and iirc brawl polls.
Enough said. ^^

4)Sukapon was planned for 64 Or melee at some point
Something like that; Sakurai said not to expect him so soon, but why not try again?

Of course, disadvantages too:
1)Japan only
While this isn't that big since NES Characters aren't that big in popularity, and there could be a bit of an increase on this anyways.

2)Awkward to program
It's happened in at least one of the games that's avoided from him appearing. Technology today may however be able to fix that. See: Pokemon Trainer

I'm probably missing some stuff but yeah; Feel free to discuss now that I gave more than I did earlier.

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree with N88, Ganondorf's side B is perfect. I use this move to KO my opponent and myself. I also use it as an alternative option of recovering. I usually follow up with down A so he can low kick the opponent who is lying down. For bigger opponents who are lying down, following up with down B sometimes works well. I am working on improving my skills with Brawl's Ganondorf. He might become one of my favorites again!

About Tingle, it is laughably stupid to ask for a refund just because Tingle is playable in SSB4. Only an irrational hater would go that far.

Edit: Sukapon? Sakurai already told some fans not to expect to see Sukapon in a future Smash game. Also, Joy Mech Fight isn't really Nintendo's first fighting game. That would be Urban Champion. Oh, but Sakurai also turned him down, too.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The main thing that Sukapon has going against him is that he was turned down... twice and for the exact same reason. Really, I don't understand what the issue is but, then again, I'm not a programmer. As I said in another post, Metaknight and Pit were kept out of Melee due to issues with programming "flying" characters. I think the problem stems from Sukapon lacking any true joints and basically being floating balls but, again, I don't understand why that would be hard to program. Anybody have any thoughts?

Personally, I like the idea but supposedly, even after 8 years, he's still impractical to incorporate into Smash Bros.

 

[SshadowfaxX019]

I agree with Hero Dude and fat man on this one i hate wario he is such a pointless character they shouldnt keep him in.

 

[SshadowfaxX019]

haha wow im new to this so i dnt really kno how to do stuff so if anyone wants to help me plz feel free